John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery ( Archived) (172)

Sep 16, 2008 3:17 PM CST John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery
mastic55
mastic55mastic55Long Island, New York USA167 Threads 6,859 Posts
FreeHappy: McCain BUSTED



He is a liar and caught IN HIS LIES in this video.
doh
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Sep 16, 2008 3:18 PM CST John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
FreeHappy: exactly

Obama IS a good man.


There are alot of good men.....and women.....and who is to say that McCain and Palin are less than that?
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Sep 16, 2008 3:19 PM CST John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery
Jimo65
Jimo65Jimo65stockton, California USA21 Posts
ttom500: I will toss another iron into the thread fire here. See if it gets some thought......

McCain just asked for a 9/11 commission to investigate the economy.
To figure out its problems and give recommendations for yes....that
magic word of the election, change.
.


Change was so yesterday. The republican new catch word is reform. Democrats = change, Republicans = reform....What does that tell me? That tells me that neither side wants to link themselves to the Bush regime.
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Sep 16, 2008 3:23 PM CST John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery
mastic55
mastic55mastic55Long Island, New York USA167 Threads 6,859 Posts
I'm single. just figured I would post that,,I can make these threads work for me....smitten
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Sep 16, 2008 3:29 PM CST John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery
Jimo65
Jimo65Jimo65stockton, California USA21 Posts
mastic55: Don't vote just to have a black president like 30 percent or more are doing.JMOAll Americans have the right and should to vote.Let the chips land we they will.


"Democracy is a device that ensures that we shall be governed no better than we deserve" George Bernard Shaw

What he is saying is that if voters are ignorant of the issues, if a majority of them don't vote and if the ones that do vote do so based on advertising paid with large sums of money, then we shouldn't be surprised by the results of the people who get elected.
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Sep 16, 2008 3:30 PM CST John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
Jimo65: Change was so yesterday. The republican new catch word is reform. Democrats = change, Republicans = reform....What does that tell me? That tells me that neither side wants to link themselves to the Bush regime.


I made the comment in a different thread that change = reform and
reform = change......and asked if anyone could tell me the difference.
But now that GWB has been brought into the equation.....I can see the difference.

With the Dem, we have change with out GWB
With the Rep, we have reform with out GWB

So using my political equation skills......we have...........

Change - GWB = The Dems = Reform - GWB = The Rep

So? One thing all can agree...the next 4 years are going to be done without GWB. We are getting to a meeting of the minds of the two
political parties and their tickets.laugh rolling on the floor laughing dancing
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Sep 16, 2008 3:40 PM CST John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery
mastic55
mastic55mastic55Long Island, New York USA167 Threads 6,859 Posts
Jimo65: "Democracy is a device that ensures that we shall be governed no better than we deserve" George Bernard Shaw

What he is saying is that if voters are ignorant of the issues, if a majority of them don't vote and if the ones that do vote do so based on advertising paid with large sums of money, then we shouldn't be surprised by the results of the people who get elected.
I know what your saying, but the result can be good or bad depending which side your on,,,,I remember hearing that blacks could not vote because they were believed to be ignorant, now they have that right, and they should have had it all along.
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Sep 16, 2008 3:47 PM CST John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
Jimo65: Change was so yesterday. The republican new catch word is reform. Democrats = change, Republicans = reform....What does that tell me? That tells me that neither side wants to link themselves to the Bush regime.


A Obama commercial....here...Spoken by Parak himself......just gave me his definition of 'chnage'.

According to Senator Obama...."Change is a President that brings
people together."

Yep that is the Obama definition of change.

So here is my thought and question. When Barak had the chance to vote with the majority on the Iraq war, and be part of keeping the country and people together. He did not. If he wins, why should he expect the REP to be part of keeping the country and people together?

Also......Barak fully knows who and what Sadam Hussien was then.
When OReilly interviewed him.....Barak said......'Sadam was this very very bad man'....how in the world, does Barak think that this very very bad man was going to be removed from power? He does not say.

But back to my initial thought and question......any reason(s) for REPs to support a Obama administration?
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Sep 16, 2008 3:47 PM CST John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
Jimo65: Change was so yesterday. The republican new catch word is reform. Democrats = change, Republicans = reform....What does that tell me? That tells me that neither side wants to link themselves to the Bush regime.


A Obama commercial....here...Spoken by Parak himself......just gave me his definition of 'chnage'.

According to Senator Obama...."Change is a President that brings
people together."

Yep that is the Obama definition of change.

So here is my thought and question. When Barak had the chance to vote with the majority on the Iraq war, and be part of keeping the country and people together. He did not. If he wins, why should he expect the REP to be part of keeping the country and people together?

Also......Barak fully knows who and what Sadam Hussien was then.
When OReilly interviewed him.....Barak said......'Sadam was this very very bad man'....how in the world, does Barak think that this very very bad man was going to be removed from power? He does not say.

But back to my initial thought and question......any reason(s) for REPs to support a Obama administration?
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Sep 16, 2008 3:52 PM CST John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA152 Threads 8 Polls 18,150 Posts
NoMcSame: Obama is definately the lesser of the two evils. And not only that, he is an honorable guy, a good person, and has run a clean campaign. He is smart, he thinks things through and will employ smart people on his staff. He is trustworthy and genuinely wants the best for this country.

John McCain is the same as Bush. We've tried that already. It is time for change. We cannot afford another George Bush.

If the American people elect another Bush they are INSANE! Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. They've been fooled twice and now we're going for a third time?!? WTF!



Does the Obama Campaign pay you as much as they do the Danish/Russian contengency to post on here? rolling on the floor laughing
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Sep 16, 2008 3:54 PM CST John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery
Jimo65
Jimo65Jimo65stockton, California USA21 Posts
ttom500:

So? One thing all can agree...the next 4 years are going to be done without GWB. We are getting to a meeting of the minds of the two
political parties and their tickets.


I don't agree with that. Its become bigger than individuals. There is a reason that politicians vote with party lines. You can't tell me that 90% of all Republicans/democrats think the same, but their voting records would indicate they do. You follow party lines your political career advances. Look at John Mccain, when he was truly a maverick he got no votes for president, at some point he followed party lines, he abandon his own maverick stances and went along the lines of the party, he did that and brought the Bush crew into his camp and now he is one step from president of the U.S. Look at Mccains views when he ran for presidency last time and now, its not the same John Mccain If he didn't make those changes he wouldn't be where he is now. I am not trying to pick on Mccain because whether we see it or not Obama is no different, he just doesn't have the history of Mccain. Obama and Mccain are not leaders, they are followers who are just following party lines.
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Sep 16, 2008 4:02 PM CST John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery
woody636
woody636woody636Elgin, Illinois USA3 Threads 1,267 Posts
Jimo65: I don't agree with that. Its become bigger than individuals. There is a reason that politicians vote with party lines. You can't tell me that 90% of all Republicans/democrats think the same, but their voting records would indicate they do. You follow party lines your political career advances. Look at John Mccain, when he was truly a maverick he got no votes for president, at some point he followed party lines, he abandon his own maverick stances and went along the lines of the party, he did that and brought the Bush crew into his camp and now he is one step from president of the U.S. Look at Mccains views when he ran for presidency last time and now, its not the same John Mccain If he didn't make those changes he wouldn't be where he is now. I am not trying to pick on Mccain because whether we see it or not Obama is no different, he just doesn't have the history of Mccain. Obama and Mccain are not leaders, they are followers who are just following party lines.


thumbs up Agree. Just wonder if McCain will cowtoe to the far right or fall back on his original ideals. For a republican, he has pretty liberal ideas, or he did have. I think both candidate will/would say/promise anything at this point in time to get elected. What happens once they get in office is another matter altogether.
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Sep 16, 2008 4:04 PM CST John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery
Jimo65
Jimo65Jimo65stockton, California USA21 Posts


Also......Barak fully knows who and what Sadam Hussien was then.
When OReilly interviewed him.....Barak said......'Sadam was this very very bad man'....how in the world, does Barak think that this very very bad man was going to be removed from power? He does not say.
/quote]

We as a country was much better off with Saddam in power. The war is a major factor in the fall of our economy. You can look through history and see how war brings on inflation. We get some government numbers that the war has cost X amount of money, but history has shown that its always a greater amount than the government lets on.

Our government loves to play both sides of the war. We give Israel money and weapons to bomb Lebanon and then we give Lebanon American taxpayer money to rebuild the homes and roads that we paid to bomb. What happens in nature when you take away a animals only predator? That animal will multiply and become a problem. Iraq was Irans natural predator, both sides drained money to protect themselves from each other. Now that Iraq is gone Iran can flourish. If you look to history the U.S.A. is responsible for what Iran is now. Iran was a flourishing country that was heading towards democracy in the 1950's, but they wanted to nationalize oil, so we sent in the C.I.A. to take care of this little problem and we propped up a new ruler called the Shah, he had a brutal police force but that was ok, we got to keep cheap oil. We act surprised when Iran 20 years later takes Americans hostage.
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Sep 16, 2008 4:24 PM CST John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery
Jimo65:

Also......Barak fully knows who and what Sadam Hussien was then.
When OReilly interviewed him.....Barak said......'Sadam was this very very bad man'....how in the world, does Barak think that this very very bad man was going to be removed from power? He does not say.
/quote]

We as a country was much better off with Saddam in power. The war is a major factor in the fall of our economy. You can look through history and see how war brings on inflation. We get some government numbers that the war has cost X amount of money, but history has shown that its always a greater amount than the government lets on.

Our government loves to play both sides of the war. We give Israel money and weapons to bomb Lebanon and then we give Lebanon American taxpayer money to rebuild the homes and roads that we paid to bomb. What happens in nature when you take away a animals only predator? That animal will multiply and become a problem. Iraq was Irans natural predator, both sides drained money to protect themselves from each other. Now that Iraq is gone Iran can flourish. If you look to history the U.S.A. is responsible for what Iran is now. Iran was a flourishing country that was heading towards democracy in the 1950's, but they wanted to nationalize oil, so we sent in the C.I.A. to take care of this little problem and we propped up a new ruler called the Shah, he had a brutal police force but that was ok, we got to keep cheap oil. We act surprised when Iran 20 years later takes Americans hostage.
I think you'd better read up on the Pahlavi Dynasty again!doh
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Sep 16, 2008 4:27 PM CST John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
Jimo65: I don't agree with that. Its become bigger than individuals. There is a reason that politicians vote with party lines. You can't tell me that 90% of all Republicans/democrats think the same, but their voting records would indicate they do. You follow party lines your political career advances. Look at John Mccain, when he was truly a maverick he got no votes for president, at some point he followed party lines, he abandon his own maverick stances and went along the lines of the party, he did that and brought the Bush crew into his camp and now he is one step from president of the U.S. Look at Mccains views when he ran for presidency last time and now, its not the same John Mccain If he didn't make those changes he wouldn't be where he is now. I am not trying to pick on Mccain because whether we see it or not Obama is no different, he just doesn't have the history of Mccain. Obama and Mccain are not leaders, they are followers who are just following party lines.


I think that you got this one wrong, Jim. Follow me some here.

How many of the REP canidates that were in the primaries....that were more to the right, more Christian conservative, more big business than McCain?

Huckabee, Romney, Thompson all fit the bill there. Yet the REP primary voters selected a mid road reformer. The REP voters were already moving to where McCain was....mid road and reform.

Leadership......is a mystical quality at times. We put a generals uniform on a man or woman....we say you are a leader. Then you get the leadership of the Major General at the Abu Grail prison. Or you get the
leadership of General Peatris. Some have it, some don't.

You are right DEM and REP think and look at things differently. But
that does not mean on certian issues....that there cannot be alot of agreement. It is those issues of division that keeps much from happening for the country....here there are the battles that neither like to compomise on.

I don't see McCain being a Abraham Lincoln figure. Nor do I see Obama as one either. To me, Lincoln is the model for Presidential Leadership. They both have a different skill set than Lincoln had.
A different leadership style if you will. Which one is better for the next four years is a good question to ask.

I see us in some real foreign affairs issues. That involve military, commerce, human rights, and with Russia, Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan. To me, McCain's blunt leadership sytle works better here than the flowery style of Obama. I want a President for the next 4 years....that can make a decision and stick with it.....explain it bluntly and honestly....not play word games with Iran and Russia. I think that
is the countries safest course.
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Sep 16, 2008 4:32 PM CST John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery
Hot_Single_Dude
Hot_Single_DudeHot_Single_DudeKobenhavn, Capital Region Denmark68 Threads 73 Polls 11,289 Posts
Indyfella: Does the Obama Campaign pay you as much as they do the Danish/Russian contengency to post on here?


Nastarovia Indyfella!

From all people I "know", one thing is certain......you will Never Ever Change !tongue
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Sep 16, 2008 4:55 PM CST John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery
Jimo65
Jimo65Jimo65stockton, California USA21 Posts
ttom500: I think that you got this one wrong, Jim. Follow me some here.

How many of the REP canidates that were in the primaries....that were more to the right, more Christian conservative, more big business than McCain?



How far you are to the right doesn't matter. When Romney and Mccain were arguing who was more for the war I thought that was absurd. They both wanted the war, but they constantly argued saying I was more for the war than you are for the war.

Let me ask you this question. Mccain pro choice or pro life? Not his personal opinion but what platform is he running for president? He won't run on a pro life because he would be gone. It matters not if he is more pro life than Huckabee or Thompson. Except for Ron Paul all the republicans were basically the same, they had a variation of the same but they are basically the same. They were all for the war, all pro life, all basically for the same thing, just some are more for it than others. Democrats are the same thing, was there any pro life democrats? Any democrats for the war? All are just a variation of the same.
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Sep 16, 2008 5:08 PM CST John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts


Also......Barak fully knows who and what Sadam Hussien was then.
When OReilly interviewed him.....Barak said......'Sadam was this very very bad man'....how in the world, does Barak think that this very very bad man was going to be removed from power? He does not say.
/quote]

We as a country was much better off with Saddam in power. The war is a major factor in the fall of our economy. You can look through history and see how war brings on inflation. We get some government numbers that the war has cost X amount of money, but history has shown that its always a greater amount than the government lets on.

Our government loves to play both sides of the war. We give Israel money and weapons to bomb Lebanon and then we give Lebanon American taxpayer money to rebuild the homes and roads that we paid to bomb. What happens in nature when you take away a animals only predator? That animal will multiply and become a problem. Iraq was Irans natural predator, both sides drained money to protect themselves from each other. Now that Iraq is gone Iran can flourish. If you lo

Bin Laden's AlQeada is a composite organization of Sunni, Shia, Chechyan, Arab, and many other tribes and sects. OK? El Zharki the first leader of AlQeada in Iraq...got medical treatment for Afghan war wound in Iraq. Bin Laden eldest son, Saad got safe haven in Iran after
Afghanistan fell.

The point I am making is that with that composition element, bin Laden after 9/11 was going to be able to get some support from Sadam for terrorism against the US or from Iran or Lybia or most any other Moslem country. His 70,000 trainees went to 40 different countries. Let us face that fact both had a common enemy in the US at that time. Given time and opportunity they would link up.

So I don't accept the with 'Sadam in power we were better off'.

Boy you go back a ways in history on the Iran issue. But OK. Iran and Iraq are natural enemies, agreed. Their war shows that. But look at the causes of the war carefully. The majority of that war was in the Basra border area where both have oil fields. The war was fought over the possession of those oil fields.

Whether Iran was a democracy, Shan run country or a Islamic revolutionary gov't that war was going to happen over those oil fields. Point being......these two got greedy in the world oil market....if one could bump the other out its oil fields.....it was wealth to the country. America did not start the war. We supported Sadam because we already knew that a Revolutionary Islamic Iran was bad news for us.

The last 25 years...since the embassy take over...I would say that Russia is a much bigger reason for what Iran is, than the US. Those 32 nuclear facilities inside Iran are not American designed and built, but Russian. There are only a few American companies that continue to do business inside Iran. Been that way since the UN security council sanctions (3 now) began. Russian trade with Iran is substantial.

Both side of a war.......well call us warriors and humaniarians at the sametime, I guess is another way of saying that. The old destroy em for the rebuild ems. Have we had mixed foreign policies in the past? Yes. But again, I think that is why you need McCain in the Presidency.

President Obama's flowery speech is going to be analysis in these foreign capitols. It leads to many definitions and intrepretations. E.G. mixed signals and mixed foreign policies. McCain's straight shooting starts to end that, in my mind. Foreign gov't are going to know where the line is.....and what happens if they cross it.
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Sep 16, 2008 5:33 PM CST John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery
Jimo65
Jimo65Jimo65stockton, California USA21 Posts
ttom500:

The point I am making is that with that composition element, bin Laden after 9/11 was going to be able to get some support from Sadam for terrorism against the US or from Iran or Lybia or most any other Moslem country. His 70,000 trainees went to 40 different countries. Let us face that fact both had a common enemy in the US at that time. Given time and opportunity they would link up.

So I don't accept the with 'Sadam in power we were better off'.



I don't think we will change each other opinion on this topic. I can make the same argument with Iran and terrorists will hook up. The dominos can go on forever. Do you really think you can stop the ideology of terrorism? Since we went into Iraq and Afghanistan terrorism has been strong, we have had many large attacks around the world. We have not had any in America, however if our efforts in the middle east was crippling terrorist they would not be able to bomb Madrid, or London, but they have and many other countries. The only thing we are doing is sacrificing our way of life, I remember Bush claiming we would not do that, but as Americans we have done exactly that. We have now gone from a surplus to 10 trillion debt, and that debt climbs at the pace of 1.7 billion a day. Look to history and see what happens to nations with a soaring debt, we won't last another 100 years if we continue at our current rate.
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Sep 16, 2008 5:33 PM CST John McCain first, Country second... American Presidency a journey of personal discovery
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA152 Threads 8 Polls 18,150 Posts
Just 2 observations:


Pelosi promised gas would be $2.00 a gallon if a democrat congress was elected. If that happens, I'll vote for Obummer... I promise.


How do the poor working class afford to go to the Bab's Streisand concert for Barak Obummer? It cost $30,000 per plate. That should be some damn good food. I hope the send the scraps to a homeless shelter. crying
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