Cuba is awash with oil. Maybe there is a god. ( Archived) (37)

Oct 27, 2008 6:16 AM CST Cuba is awash with oil. Maybe there is a god.
mike69spain
mike69spainmike69spainAlmuñécar, Andalusia Spain34 Threads 6 Polls 4,110 Posts
jb, I think Wiki is a good start for that info search.

As for Cuba finding more oil... Me wonder to what length that will be a positive to the population there.
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Oct 27, 2008 6:19 AM CST Cuba is awash with oil. Maybe there is a god.
Karma3
Karma3Karma3Somewhere, Tamil Nadu India84 Threads 588 Posts
Then Iraq is gonna get lucky - the US troops are gonna be shipped out to Cuba.....follow the oil......follow the oil....
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Oct 27, 2008 6:26 AM CST Cuba is awash with oil. Maybe there is a god.
PietroPaoloV
PietroPaoloVPietroPaoloVGöteborg, Vastra Gotaland Sweden57 Threads 3 Polls 722 Posts
In response to: jb, I think Wiki is a good start for that info search.


Or she could ask the barrel of fun that is one-peg Lego brick laughs Conrad.
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Oct 27, 2008 6:44 AM CST Cuba is awash with oil. Maybe there is a god.
jbibiza
jbibizajbibizaCasinos, Valencia Spain94 Threads 4 Polls 4,914 Posts
PietroPaoloV: Or she could ask the barrel of fun that is one-peg Lego brick laughs Conrad.



Now now... play nice boys laugh
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Oct 27, 2008 6:55 AM CST Cuba is awash with oil. Maybe there is a god.
Kevint
KevintKevintWorcester, Home of the sauce, West Midlands, England UK6 Threads 433 Posts
jbibiza: OK guys... I need some schooling... How is it that with the relations between Cuba and America being what they are.... that America has a military base there?

Did they come to some sort of agreement...As long as we can keep a military base there so you can´t fire any missals in our direction we will keep up an embargo and keep the rest of our citizens away....

This is something I´ve never understood and would appreciate any info anyone has.


That is such a great question



Hi JB, still under the Duvet???

wave
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Oct 27, 2008 6:56 AM CST Cuba is awash with oil. Maybe there is a god.
jbibiza
jbibizajbibizaCasinos, Valencia Spain94 Threads 4 Polls 4,914 Posts
mike69spain: jb, I think Wiki is a good start for that info search.

As for Cuba finding more oil... Me wonder to what length that will be a positive to the population there.



Well that and several other articles made for some interesting reading... it would appear that the US is in violation of the treaty on several accounts and are there illegally. confused
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Oct 27, 2008 7:51 AM CST Cuba is awash with oil. Maybe there is a god.
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
This is a good short explanation and it appears that a lease signed in 1934 is the reason the U.S. can be and are still in Cuba:


Front Door to Cuba
Notes on Guantánamo Bay

The first U.S. presence on Guantánamo Bay was a Marine battalion that camped there on June 10 1898, and the first American casualties of the Spanish-Cuban-American War were two marines killed there the following day.

Five years later, U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt signed an agreement with Cuba's new government, leasing the bay for 2,000 gold coins per year. The agreement was forced on the new Cuban government through the Platt Amendment, which gave the U.S. authority to interfere in Cuban affairs.

The Lease Agreement signed on February 16 1903, granted the U.S. "the right to use and occupy the waters adjacent to said areas of land and water… and generally to do any and all things necessary to fit the premises for use as coaling or naval stations only, and for no other purpose."

On July 2 1906, (just before the 2nd U.S. military intervention) a new lease was signed in Havana for Guantánamo Bay and Bahía Honda, for which the U.S. would pay $2,000 per year.

The U.S. Naval Base at Guantánamo Bay, the oldest existing U.S. military base outside U.S. territory, sits on a 45-square-mile area (117.6 square kilometers) about the size of Manhattan Island.

After the Platt Amendment was annulled in 1934, a new lease was negotiated between the Roosevelt administration and a Cuban government that included Fulgencio Batista as one of three signatories. Batista emerged as the strong man on the island over the next twenty-five years.

When the Revolution triumphed in 1959, the U.S. banned its soldiers stationed at the bay from entering Cuban territory. The Cuban government asserts that Guantánamo should have been returned to Cuba at this time.

"It's no secret," wrote Rafael Hernández Rodriquez in Subject to Solution: Problems in Cuban-U.S. Relations, "that the main mission of the naval bases in this area of the Gulf is to control, police and spy on Cuba."

During a speech in Chile on December 3 1971, Castro said, "that base is there just to humiliate Cuba; just like a knife stuck in the heart of Cuba's dignity and sovereignty… But from a military standpoint, the base is completely useless."

On January 11 1985, in a speech during a visit to Nicaragua, Castro addressed the potential use of military violence to recover this territory. "What interest can we have in waging a war with our neighbors?" he said. "In our country we have a military base against the will of our people. It has been there throughout the twenty-six years of the revolution, and it is being occupied by force. We have the moral and legal right to demand its return. We have made the claim in the moral and legal way. We do not intend to recover it with the use of arms. It is part of our territory being occupied by a U.S. military base. Never has anyone, a revolutionary cadre, a revolutionary leader, or a fellow citizen, had the idea of recovering the piece of our territory by the use of force. If some day it will be ours, it will not be by the use of force, but the advance of the consciousness of justice in the world."

In an interview with Soviet journalists in October 1985, U.S. President Ronald Reagan said that the purpose of the base was political: to impose the U.S. presence, even if the Cubans didn't want it.

(Cont'd).....wine
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Oct 27, 2008 7:51 AM CST Cuba is awash with oil. Maybe there is a god.
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
On June 14 2002, at the United Nations General Assembly, Cuba demanded that Guantánamo territory be returned to the island.

The issue of returning Guantánamo to Cuba is complicated by the agreement signed by Batista in 1934. The agreement states: "Until the two Contracting Parties agree to the modification or abrogation of the stipulations of the agreement in regard to the lease to the United States of America of lands in Cuba for coaling and naval stations… the stipulations of that Agreement with regard to the naval station of Guantánamo shall continue in effect."

To the U.S. this means an "open-ended duration" that can only be terminated by mutual agreement. To Cuba it means that Guantánamo Bay is "occupied territory."


While this paper will not attempt to enumerate the many legal aspects of international law invoked by this "occupation," it's important to note that most other "territories held" throughout the world have been returned. The Panama Canal was returned to Panama in January 2000, Hong Kong was returned to China by the United Kingdom in 1997, and Portugal returned Macau Island to China in 1999.

Since 1959, the U.S. sends a check for the lease amount every year, but the Cuban government has never cashed them.


wine
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Oct 27, 2008 7:53 AM CST Cuba is awash with oil. Maybe there is a god.
PietroPaoloV: Or she could ask the barrel of fun that is one-peg Lego brick laughs Conrad.
Ain't anyone can be as funny as Swedes!sigh
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Oct 27, 2008 8:09 AM CST Cuba is awash with oil. Maybe there is a god.
jbibiza
jbibizajbibizaCasinos, Valencia Spain94 Threads 4 Polls 4,914 Posts
Kevint: That is such a great question
Hi JB, still under the Duvet???





It made for some interesting reading... seems like the rest of the world feels that America has broken the treaty and they have requested that America remove the base... and that America is indeed occupying foreign territory.

We saw the US attitude about occupation with Russia and Georgia... how do they condone their actions in Cuba?

Obviously it´s not worth going to war over... but what does the rest of the world do when faced with a situation like this?

With the potential of new oil... I can´t help but imagine where this may wind up in the next few years.



Still a bit warm here for a duvet... but yes... I´m still lazing around enjoying a totally useless day. wine
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Oct 27, 2008 8:12 AM CST Cuba is awash with oil. Maybe there is a god.
Kevint
KevintKevintWorcester, Home of the sauce, West Midlands, England UK6 Threads 433 Posts
Hugz_n_Kissez: On June 14 2002, at the United Nations General Assembly, Cuba demanded that Guantánamo territory be returned to the island.

The issue of returning Guantánamo to Cuba is complicated by the agreement signed by Batista in 1934. The agreement states: "Until the two Contracting Parties agree to the modification or abrogation of the stipulations of the agreement in regard to the lease to the United States of America of lands in Cuba for coaling and naval stations… the stipulations of that Agreement with regard to the naval station of Guantánamo shall continue in effect."

To the U.S. this means an "open-ended duration" that can only be terminated by mutual agreement. To Cuba it means that Guantánamo Bay is "occupied territory."

While this paper will not attempt to enumerate the many legal aspects of international law invoked by this "occupation," it's important to note that most other "territories held" throughout the world have been returned. The Panama Canal was returned to Panama in January 2000, Hong Kong was returned to China by the United Kingdom in 1997, and Portugal returned Macau Island to China in 1999.

Since 1959, the U.S. sends a check for the lease amount every year, but the Cuban government has never cashed them.


Doen't that just say a huge amount, if it is really true then the American Government should hang its head in shame, I don't pretend to understand anything regarding the use of Cuba as a potion of the US militia but it certainly appears from the outside to be wrong.

dunno confused
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Oct 27, 2008 8:16 AM CST Cuba is awash with oil. Maybe there is a god.
StressFree
StressFreeStressFreesmall city, Kalmar Sweden176 Threads 16 Polls 8,986 Posts
jbibiza: Ready and waiting...


Gosh you're a clever oneroll eyes laugh

Obama 08

Change we can believe in!!!!!!applause
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Oct 27, 2008 8:18 AM CST Cuba is awash with oil. Maybe there is a god.
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
Kevint: Doen't that just say a huge amount, if it is really true then the American Government should hang its head in shame, I don't pretend to understand anything regarding the use of Cuba as a potion of the US militia but it certainly appears from the outside to be wrong.



Cuba believes the land was stolen and should have been returned in 1959 so Castro would not cash the 4000 + dollar checks...I guess the lease that was signed in 1934 would have to be gone over with a fine tooth comb to see if their were violations to it...or if there were other stipulations by which the land was to be returned to Cuba and should have been returned in 1959!!!!!!!


wave wink hug teddybear hug bouquet
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Oct 27, 2008 8:28 AM CST Cuba is awash with oil. Maybe there is a god.
jbibiza
jbibizajbibizaCasinos, Valencia Spain94 Threads 4 Polls 4,914 Posts
Kevint: Doen't that just say a huge amount, if it is really true then the American Government should hang its head in shame, I don't pretend to understand anything regarding the use of Cuba as a potion of the US militia but it certainly appears from the outside to be wrong.



The long-term lease of this territory by the United States has been unpopular with the Cuban government since 1959. The present sovereigns of the territory covering Guantanamo Bay, the Republic of Cuba, led by the Communist Party of Cuba, claim that as sovereign land owners they may evict the people who live and work there, pointing to article 52 of the 1969 Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties which declares a treaty void if its conclusion has been procured by the threat or use of force — in this case by the inclusion, in 1901, of the Platt Amendment in the first Cuban Constitution. The United States warned the Cuban Constitutional Convention not to remove the Amendment, and stated U.S. troops would not leave Cuba until its terms had been adopted as a condition for the U.S. to grant independence. However, the United States argues that Article 4 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties prohibits retroactive (after the fact) application of said Convention to already existing treaties such as the ones concluded between the US and Cuba in 1903 and 1934. The Platt Amendment was dissolved in 1934, and the treaty re-affirming the lease to the base was signed after Franklin D. Roosevelt dispatched 29 US warships to Cuba and Key West to protect U.S. interests following a military coup.

After coming to power in 1959, Cuban President Fidel Castro refused to cash all but the very first rent check in protest. But the United States argues that its cashing signifies Havana's ratification of the lease — and that ratification by the new government renders moot any questions about violations of sovereignty and illegal military occupation.[citation needed]

The San Francisco Chronicle published an article, on April 22, 2007, about the base, and the conditions under which the treaty would be rendered void. The article states the treaty allows the USA to use the base for "coaling and naval purposes only." It states it does not allow the USA to use it for detaining "enemy combatants", or trying them for war crimes. It further states that the treaty explicitly proscribes "commercial, industrial or other enterprise within said areas." And yet the base sports half a dozen fast-food concessions.


The closing-down of the Guantánamo Prison has been requested by Amnesty International (May 2005), the United Nations (February 2006) and the European Union (May 2006).

On September 6, 2006, President Bush announced that enemy combatants held by the CIA will be transferred to the custody of Department of Defense, and held at Guantánamo Prison. Among approximately 500 prisoners in Guantánamo Bay, only 10 have been tried by the Guantanamo military commission, but all cases have been stayed pending the adjustments being made to comply with the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld.
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Oct 27, 2008 9:38 PM CST Cuba is awash with oil. Maybe there is a god.
OUTRAGEOUS
OUTRAGEOUSOUTRAGEOUSPanama, Panama44 Threads 1 Polls 1,768 Posts
Hugz_n_Kissez: On June 14 2002, at the United Nations General Assembly, Cuba demanded that Guantánamo territory be returned to the island.

The issue of returning Guantánamo to Cuba is complicated by the agreement signed by Batista in 1934. The agreement states: "Until the two Contracting Parties agree to the modification or abrogation of the stipulations of the agreement in regard to the lease to the United States of America of lands in Cuba for coaling and naval stations… the stipulations of that Agreement with regard to the naval station of Guantánamo shall continue in effect."

To the U.S. this means an "open-ended duration" that can only be terminated by mutual agreement. To Cuba it means that Guantánamo Bay is "occupied territory."

While this paper will not attempt to enumerate the many legal aspects of international law invoked by this "occupation," it's important to note that most other "territories held" throughout the world have been returned. The Panama Canal was returned to Panama in January 2000, Hong Kong was returned to China by the United Kingdom in 1997, and Portugal returned Macau Island to China in 1999.

Since 1959, the U.S. sends a check for the lease amount every year, but the Cuban government has never cashed them.


Panama: Actually, the process ended December 31, 1999 at noon. It started with the Treaties signed in 1977, and the "reversion" process began in 1978, when the US had to return the Amador Naval Station, Balboa Base, in the Pacific andf fort Gulick in the Atlantic... other areas were returned at the same time, and over the years the bases were returned to Panama. The last one to go was Ft Calyton, which housed the southern command headquarters. I lived History. I was there to see the last American Soldier leave our soil.

In fact, the US tried to re-negotiate the leases for the Bases and we declined...unlike Phillipines that did renegotiate the Bases with the US. Maybe that's the case with Guantanamo Bay, Fidel is refusing to renegotiate and they are holding to an agreement signed by a dictator that was overthrown in 1959.
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Oct 28, 2008 2:40 AM CST Cuba is awash with oil. Maybe there is a god.
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA152 Threads 8 Polls 18,150 Posts
A lot of Americans feel the same way about the United Nations. It needs to be someplace else besides in the United States.
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Oct 28, 2008 2:51 AM CST Cuba is awash with oil. Maybe there is a god.
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA152 Threads 8 Polls 18,150 Posts
Indyfella: A lot of Americans feel the same way about the United Nations. It needs to be someplace else besides in the United States.



I just had a brainstorm. PUT THE UN in CUBA. Seems like an appropriate location! applause applause
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