Do you think China will cease its occupation of Tibet (61)
interesting view
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The argument is not that clear. China has ruled Tibet since the 14th century with the exception of a brief 38 year period and that was not universally recognised as it stemmed from a British invasion of Tibet. China rules many such states which have their own ethnic minorities.
There is certainly a case for independence but it is a case for international law and it's much too simplistic to accuse China of occupying that territory.
There is certainly a case for independence but it is a case for international law and it's much too simplistic to accuse China of occupying that territory.
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I beg to differ, Tibet was never at any time part of China. Though Mongolian Khan installed Mahayana over Bon at a time the Khan ruled China, China otherwise never ever ruled Tibet that just another Chinese lie.
Tibet was never part of China never
Tibet was never part of China never
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Godsgift: The argument is not that clear. China has ruled Tibet since the 14th century with the exception of a brief 38 year period and that was not universally recognised as it stemmed from a British invasion of Tibet. China rules many such states which have their own ethnic minorities.
There is certainly a case for independence but it is a case for international law and it's much too simplistic to accuse China of occupying that territory.
There is certainly a case for independence but it is a case for international law and it's much too simplistic to accuse China of occupying that territory.
It is a false assetion to claim that China ruled Tibet from the 14th century. As late as 1650 the Qing emperor recognised the independence of Tibet, and further, personally regarded the then Dalai Lama as a divinity upon the Earth. After this time it is true that China assisted Tibet with disputes, but the reverse is also true - so one could say that in fact Tibet has the right to claim China as its own territory!
China seized and suspended an autonomous state under the threat of arms, and for the last fifty years has pursued a course of persecution and cultural genocide. They are indeed occupiers, and malevolent occupiers at that.
Whilst China has aided Tibet in history
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Godsgift: The argument is not that clear. China has ruled Tibet since the 14th century with the exception of a brief 38 year period and that was not universally recognised as it stemmed from a British invasion of Tibet. China rules many such states which have their own ethnic minorities.
There is certainly a case for independence but it is a case for international law and it's much too simplistic to accuse China of occupying that territory.
There is certainly a case for independence but it is a case for international law and it's much too simplistic to accuse China of occupying that territory.
this link might help to understand
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It's only one version and you will find the Chinese argument on Wikipedia too if you wish to take it as gospel. I'm not taking sides one way or another. I'm just saying it's an issue for International Law and it's over simplistic to look on it as an occupation.
But on account, China now owns us all, I don't see anyone in the west standing up to them any time soon.
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Only 1 thing amiss...The 1st option? Was that pun? Great Wall is twds North of China with its border with Mongolia right?
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harry_bahrain: Only 1 thing amiss...The 1st option? Was that pun? Great Wall is twds North of China with its border with Mongolia right?
Right.
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robplum: I beg to differ, Tibet was never at any time part of China. Though Mongolian Khan installed Mahayana over Bon at a time the Khan ruled China, China otherwise never ever ruled Tibet that just another Chinese lie.
Tibet was never part of China never
Tibet was never part of China never
and,
no i do not think China will cease its occupation of Tibet.
as well,
i think China is increasing it's occupation of many places...
but through financial dependencies, rather than military actions.
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Sadly Rob no I dont think they will unless the international community puts pressure on them, along with economic/immigration sanctions 
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yeah, meanwhile the Tibetans continue to be suppressed. The Chinese Government murdered the last two incarnations of the Panchen Lama. The first Panchen Lama (who named the first Dalai Lama) and all subsequent incarnations discussed issues with Tibet's neighbor China, though in 1952 (think about then) the Dalai as a kid traveled to China in an attempt to sort an intrusion Chinese Communists made at that time into Tibet.
The Chinese have appointed a monkey to masquerade as the Panchen, an impossibility as Panchen incarnations are continuous incarnation of Panchen's mind-stream.
The so called Great Wall of China was built to keep Tibetans out of China, it clearly set the extent of Chinese rule.
The Chinese have appointed a monkey to masquerade as the Panchen, an impossibility as Panchen incarnations are continuous incarnation of Panchen's mind-stream.
The so called Great Wall of China was built to keep Tibetans out of China, it clearly set the extent of Chinese rule.
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I agree Rob...They built that wall they can bloody well abide by it 
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robplum: Do you think China will cease its occupation of Tibet
No.
An interesting question would be:
Why not?
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Carl96190: China will never leave Tibet willingly.
this seys it well
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I wish I could put in my 2 cents ,but it would upset you all ...and it would ruin my chances to win the heart of some rich west world widow 
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China will give up Tibet when someone persuades 1.3 billion people that Tibet does NOT belong to China,
Not one person I have asked has any doubt whatsoever that Tibet is as Chinese as Shanghai, this is what they have been taught, their history proves China has almost always ruled Tibet, why would 1.3 billion Chinese believe the lies of the west over the lies of their own country???
As far as I can see it is a complete stalemate, with no winners!!
Not one person I have asked has any doubt whatsoever that Tibet is as Chinese as Shanghai, this is what they have been taught, their history proves China has almost always ruled Tibet, why would 1.3 billion Chinese believe the lies of the west over the lies of their own country???
As far as I can see it is a complete stalemate, with no winners!!
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robplum: Do you think China will cease its occupation of Tibet?
Maybe when the US pulls out of Japan, the Philippines, South Korea, and Central Asia, and gives the southwest states back to Mexico. Until then, I wouldn't count on it.
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RayfromUSA: Maybe when the US pulls out of Japan, the Philippines, South Korea, and Central Asia, and gives the southwest states back to Mexico. Until then, I wouldn't count on it.
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RayfromUSA: Maybe when the US pulls out of Japan, the Philippines, South Korea, and Central Asia, and gives the southwest states back to Mexico. Until then, I wouldn't count on it.
Could we get some Northern states better?
Just as an interest rate charge.
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robplum: Oh so you know more than Dalai Lama and late Panchen Lama, you must be a real ocean of knowledge. Why don't you start teaching or improving the life of the suppressed Tibetans suffering under the illegal occupation by the lying Han Chinese. If your such a smart person that knows more than even Dalai Lama about Tibet affairs why don't you prove your utter rubbish in here now then
Where have I said I know more than anyone?? You are so blinkered you cannot even read a post correctly
In response to:
For you it may not matter the Chinese murdered and in many way harmed well over a million Tibetans, mostly Monks and Nuns, and to this day suppress, brainwash and steal from the Tibetan people. But to some of us who have studied the Dharma and know Dalai Lama and many other Tibetans, the sort of crap and historical clap-trap you just posted on this site about Tibet, is not only deeply offensive, it smarts of gross stupidity by either a very ignorant or grossly dishonest person.
For you it may not matter the Chinese murdered and in many way harmed well over a million Tibetans, mostly Monks and Nuns, and to this day suppress, brainwash and steal from the Tibetan people. But to some of us who have studied the Dharma and know Dalai Lama and many other Tibetans, the sort of crap and historical clap-trap you just posted on this site about Tibet, is not only deeply offensive, it smarts of gross stupidity by either a very ignorant or grossly dishonest person.
Of course it matters to me, death for any reason is bad, especially when done to extreme, again, where have I said otherwise??
In response to: In short your talking crap, Tibet has never been a part of China, the great wall of china was actually built to keep them out of china.
So this is where your whole argument falls, it shows your complete lack of understanding, and knowledge and that you are just following hearsay not facts. The Great Wall is nowhere near Tibet, it is built across the northern region of China originally to keep out nomadic tribes and then the Mongolians. Historically China inherited Tibet from the mongolian empire that had attacked and taken Tibet over, when China defeated the Mongolians, Tibet, fell by default to China administration, It was the Chinese Leaders who actually, put in place the original Dalai Lama, and gave him semi autonomous rule.
In response to:
Why don't you go and study the so called "Great Leap", Pal Pot, North Korea and the current dishonest lying assertion the Han Chinese are making e.g they have always owned almost the whole South China Sea
Why don't you go and study the so called "Great Leap", Pal Pot, North Korea and the current dishonest lying assertion the Han Chinese are making e.g they have always owned almost the whole South China Sea
No where have I said that what China is doing or have done is right, what I said and stand by is that the problems surrounding Tibet, is not a simple one and that it will take years to come up with a solution that appeases the world in general.
Oh and if you know the Dalai Lama so well, you of all people should know that he agrees that China has the right to control Tibet, and he actually has stated he does NOT want independence, but a greater level of control given to him,and it is this more than anything that has stopped the Chinese government from further negotiations.
I am genuinely sorry for the native Tibetans, they have been appallingly treated by both their own governing system and the Chinese, and they deserve better. They are a fantastic people and I enjoyed my time there immensely.
But I, like thousands of others, have no practical way to improve their lives or to persuade the CPC to give up their clam on Tibet, hopefully the investment made by the CPC in schools hospitals etc will in some small way compensate for this terrible state of affairs.
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Your statement. “So this is where your whole argument falls, it shows your complete lack of understanding, and knowledge and that you are just following hearsay not facts. The Great Wall is nowhere near Tibet, it is built across the northern region of China originally to keep out nomadic tribes and then the Mongolians. Historically China inherited Tibet from the mongolian empire that had attacked and taken Tibet over, when China defeated the Mongolians, Tibet, fell by default to China administration, It was the Chinese Leaders who actually, put in place the original Dalai Lama, and gave him semi autonomous rule”!
I already explained in an earlier post in this thread, that the Mongolian Khan installed Buddhism over the old Bon religion.
The First Dalai Lama, Gedun Drupa, was born in 1391 in Gyurmey Rupa, near Sakya in the Tsang region of central Tibet to Gonpo Dorjee and Jomo Namkha Kyi, a nomadic family. His given name was Pema Dorjee.
He did his primary studies of reading and writing Tibetan script with Gya-Ton Tsenda Pa-La, and then at the age of fourteen, he took his novice vows from Khenchen Drupa Sherab, abbot of Narthang monastery, who gave him the religious name of Gedun Drupa. Latter, in the year 1411, he took the Gelong vows (full ordination) from the abbot.
The first Dalai Lama was named by the Panchen Lama not the Khan.
Which has nothing what so ever to do with the lunatic Chinese Communist Party’s current view on the nature of the independent Nation of Tibet’s relationship with Mongolia and neighbour China.
For the lunatic Chinese Communist Party to claim an event in the 1300’s as an excuse to invade and slaughter hundreds of thousands of Tibetan, destroy or ransack most of the Temples in Tibet is outrageous. To murder the last two incarnations of the Panchen Lamas is also stupid, outrageous and a crime against humanity. To then appoint some dumb monkey to masquerade as His Holiness Panchen Lama displays how dumb the Chinese Communists really are.
Q.” Oh and if you know the Dalai Lama so well, you of all people should know that he agrees that China has the right to control Tibet, and he actually has stated he does NOT want independence, but a greater level of control given to him, and it is this more than anything that has stopped the Chinese government from further negotiations”!
Try reading the Dalai Lamas view:
China, as our Eastern neighbour, has had relations with Tibet for almost 2000 years. In the early days, Tibet was a very powerful nation. Many times it invaded certain parts of China. Then, when Tibet became weak, the Chinese became stronger, and position was reversed. In the spiritual field, we had stronger ties. During the period that the Mongols were emperors of China, the spiritual relations were genuine. During the Manchu dynasy, again there were spiritual ties. On one occasion, the Manchu emperor genuinely wanted to receive the Dalai Lama as a high lama. But some Chinese advised the emperor not to receive him. This shows that despite some genuine spiritual feelings, there was some kind of political thinking or chauvinism. In the Chinese records, they have deliberately tried to achieve more influence. Because of this, they regard Tibet as a subject of their emperor.
I already explained in an earlier post in this thread, that the Mongolian Khan installed Buddhism over the old Bon religion.
The First Dalai Lama, Gedun Drupa, was born in 1391 in Gyurmey Rupa, near Sakya in the Tsang region of central Tibet to Gonpo Dorjee and Jomo Namkha Kyi, a nomadic family. His given name was Pema Dorjee.
He did his primary studies of reading and writing Tibetan script with Gya-Ton Tsenda Pa-La, and then at the age of fourteen, he took his novice vows from Khenchen Drupa Sherab, abbot of Narthang monastery, who gave him the religious name of Gedun Drupa. Latter, in the year 1411, he took the Gelong vows (full ordination) from the abbot.
The first Dalai Lama was named by the Panchen Lama not the Khan.
Which has nothing what so ever to do with the lunatic Chinese Communist Party’s current view on the nature of the independent Nation of Tibet’s relationship with Mongolia and neighbour China.
For the lunatic Chinese Communist Party to claim an event in the 1300’s as an excuse to invade and slaughter hundreds of thousands of Tibetan, destroy or ransack most of the Temples in Tibet is outrageous. To murder the last two incarnations of the Panchen Lamas is also stupid, outrageous and a crime against humanity. To then appoint some dumb monkey to masquerade as His Holiness Panchen Lama displays how dumb the Chinese Communists really are.
Q.” Oh and if you know the Dalai Lama so well, you of all people should know that he agrees that China has the right to control Tibet, and he actually has stated he does NOT want independence, but a greater level of control given to him, and it is this more than anything that has stopped the Chinese government from further negotiations”!
Try reading the Dalai Lamas view:
China, as our Eastern neighbour, has had relations with Tibet for almost 2000 years. In the early days, Tibet was a very powerful nation. Many times it invaded certain parts of China. Then, when Tibet became weak, the Chinese became stronger, and position was reversed. In the spiritual field, we had stronger ties. During the period that the Mongols were emperors of China, the spiritual relations were genuine. During the Manchu dynasy, again there were spiritual ties. On one occasion, the Manchu emperor genuinely wanted to receive the Dalai Lama as a high lama. But some Chinese advised the emperor not to receive him. This shows that despite some genuine spiritual feelings, there was some kind of political thinking or chauvinism. In the Chinese records, they have deliberately tried to achieve more influence. Because of this, they regard Tibet as a subject of their emperor.
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I really don't know where you are going with this post, I know the history of Tibetan Buddhism, it has nothing to do with my response to your castigation of my post.
I will say again, your knowledge is not as complete as you think,especially as you think the Great wall was made to keep the Tibetans out of China.
And I will repeat, the problems surrounding Tibet are incredibly complex and there is NO easy answer.
Finally I will state here and know, I am not taking sides, I have read and learnt from both sides of the argument, I genuinely cannot see where the future will take this and my own personal view is I hope it will end peaceably. I really do try to see both sides argument, but this is so difficult to fully understand I am not prepared to take either side.
I will say again, your knowledge is not as complete as you think,especially as you think the Great wall was made to keep the Tibetans out of China.
And I will repeat, the problems surrounding Tibet are incredibly complex and there is NO easy answer.
Finally I will state here and know, I am not taking sides, I have read and learnt from both sides of the argument, I genuinely cannot see where the future will take this and my own personal view is I hope it will end peaceably. I really do try to see both sides argument, but this is so difficult to fully understand I am not prepared to take either side.
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rizlared: I really don't know where you are going with this post, I know the history of Tibetan Buddhism, it has nothing to do with my response to your castigation of my post.
I will say again, your knowledge is not as complete as you think,especially as you think the Great wall was made to keep the Tibetans out of China.
And I will repeat, the problems surrounding Tibet are incredibly complex and there is NO easy answer.
Finally I will state here and know, I am not taking sides, I have read and learnt from both sides of the argument, I genuinely cannot see where the future will take this and my own personal view is I hope it will end peaceably. I really do try to see both sides argument, but this is so difficult to fully understand I am not prepared to take either side.
I will say again, your knowledge is not as complete as you think,especially as you think the Great wall was made to keep the Tibetans out of China.
And I will repeat, the problems surrounding Tibet are incredibly complex and there is NO easy answer.
Finally I will state here and know, I am not taking sides, I have read and learnt from both sides of the argument, I genuinely cannot see where the future will take this and my own personal view is I hope it will end peaceably. I really do try to see both sides argument, but this is so difficult to fully understand I am not prepared to take either side.
Yeah you just keep talking crap and so everybody on this site can see dishonest you really are.
Guyuan is located in the southern part of the Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region, It is about 340 kilometers (about 211 miles) away from Yinchuan, the capital city of the region.
Ningxia-Hui Autonomous Region is on Northeastern Margin of the Tibetan Plateau in deed where Li Tangtang, former vice chairman of Ningxia Hui autonomous region,
All though the Chinese Commuists have flooded the internet with there lies about this subject renamed (like in Chengtian Buddhist Temple) Tibetan Temples, they even posted Chinese writing on them and photo of idiot Mao like they have in Yinchuan square the idiots photo in front of a Tibetan Temple.
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I'm sorry, it's pointless discussing this topic with you, you seem more concerned with belittling and becoming personal, rather than discuss and debate actual facts relating to the OP.
Your posts are just random cut and pastes and have no relevance to the original post
For your information Guyuan is over 2000k from Tibet and has absolutely no connection with the OP.
I have tried to reply politely and with real genuine facts which you have dismissed with foul mouthed incomplete statements based on hearsay.
NO ONE can solve this problem easily, if the FACTS you have put forward were so easy to prove, then this problem would have been solved years ago.
Have a nice day
Your posts are just random cut and pastes and have no relevance to the original post
For your information Guyuan is over 2000k from Tibet and has absolutely no connection with the OP.
I have tried to reply politely and with real genuine facts which you have dismissed with foul mouthed incomplete statements based on hearsay.
NO ONE can solve this problem easily, if the FACTS you have put forward were so easy to prove, then this problem would have been solved years ago.
Have a nice day
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rizlared: I'm sorry, it's pointless discussing this topic with you, you seem more concerned with belittling and becoming personal, rather than discuss and debate actual facts relating to the OP.
Your posts are just random cut and pastes and have no relevance to the original post
For your information Guyuan is over 2000k from Tibet and has absolutely no connection with the OP.
I have tried to reply politely and with real genuine facts which you have dismissed with foul mouthed incomplete statements based on hearsay.
NO ONE can solve this problem easily, if the FACTS you have put forward were so easy to prove, then this problem would have been solved years ago.
Have a nice day
Your posts are just random cut and pastes and have no relevance to the original post
For your information Guyuan is over 2000k from Tibet and has absolutely no connection with the OP.
I have tried to reply politely and with real genuine facts which you have dismissed with foul mouthed incomplete statements based on hearsay.
NO ONE can solve this problem easily, if the FACTS you have put forward were so easy to prove, then this problem would have been solved years ago.
Have a nice day
and for your information your dead set wrong, Guyuan is part of Tibet whether you like it or not, just because Muslim live there didn't mean it wasn't part of Tibet, you keep coming with your grossly misinformed views i don't mind at all mate, You might try listening-up instead of parroting the idiot communist lies.
If you weren't so blatantly one eyed and dishonest i wouldn't mind pissing in your pocket if it made you feel better.
However i am the OP that posted this thread and am quite happy to follow this course in relation to the subject matter and also for you to expose the sort of delusions lazy minded people like yourself harbor, if you had even a tiny bit of honesty you'd have looked at the picture thread posted and seen the Tibetan Buddhist Temple. If you took the time to look at a map you would also see the Chinese Boarder (great wall of china) crosses the Silk Road north of Guyuan (chinese label for a Tibetan town) you would see the Silk Road passes through the Wall. The Silk Road traveled more or less the whole way through Tibet.
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For those interested in the truth about Tibet, some information can still be found, even though the web is being saturated with miss leading info
Tibetan Monastery Inventory
Tibetan Monastery Inventory
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and for your information your dead set wrong, Guyuan is part of Tibet whether you like it or not, just because Muslim live there didn't mean it wasn't part of Tibet, you keep coming with your grossly misinformed views i don't mind at all mate, You might try listening-up instead of parroting the idiot communist lies.
If you weren't so blatantly one eyed and dishonest i wouldn't mind pissing in your pocket if it made you feel better.
However i am the OP that posted this thread and am quite happy to follow this course in relation to the subject matter and also for you to expose the sort of delusions lazy minded people like yourself harbor, if you had even a tiny bit of honesty you'd have looked at the picture thread posted and seen the Tibetan Buddhist Temple. If you took the time to look at a map you would also see the Chinese Boarder (great wall of china) crosses the Silk Road north of Guyuan (chinese label for a Tibetan town) you would see the Silk Road passes through the Wall. The Silk Road traveled more or less the whole way through Tibet.[/quote
Thank you again for the polite and yet again misleading post.
There are Tibetan Buddhist Temples all over China even Beijing has one, my own city has one here in Chizhou, so by your logic (sic) Tibet stretches from India to past Korea
If you weren't so blatantly one eyed and dishonest i wouldn't mind pissing in your pocket if it made you feel better.
However i am the OP that posted this thread and am quite happy to follow this course in relation to the subject matter and also for you to expose the sort of delusions lazy minded people like yourself harbor, if you had even a tiny bit of honesty you'd have looked at the picture thread posted and seen the Tibetan Buddhist Temple. If you took the time to look at a map you would also see the Chinese Boarder (great wall of china) crosses the Silk Road north of Guyuan (chinese label for a Tibetan town) you would see the Silk Road passes through the Wall. The Silk Road traveled more or less the whole way through Tibet.[/quote
Thank you again for the polite and yet again misleading post.
There are Tibetan Buddhist Temples all over China even Beijing has one, my own city has one here in Chizhou, so by your logic (sic) Tibet stretches from India to past Korea
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For those interested , it was not just Tibetan temples and monasteries that were destroyed. During the cultural revolution, Mao Zedong, decided that Buddhism was too powerful and so attempted to destroy all the religious sites within China's border, unless the monks/nuns were prepared to support him and carry out propaganda for his revolution, then they were allowed to survive but only under strict rules. Over the years most have been rebuilt or replaced and now new temples are appearing everywhere, beautifully made and each following a particular division of Buddhism, and Buddhism in general is now having a resurgence here in China.
Jiuhua Mountain is about 20 miles from my hometown of Chizhou and my university is about 10 miles from it, we have a strong connection to the area and are developing a cultural centre to help promote this amazing religious and scenic area.
Jiuhua Mountain is about 20 miles from my hometown of Chizhou and my university is about 10 miles from it, we have a strong connection to the area and are developing a cultural centre to help promote this amazing religious and scenic area.
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Created: Aug 2012
Last Viewed: Apr 14
Last Commented: Sep 2012
Last Voted: Jul 2017
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Do you think China will cease its occupation of Tibet(Vote Below)
The deaths pushed to 51 the number of confirmed self-immolations since 2009, London-based Free Tibet said in a statement.
The group said 18-year-old monk Lobsang Kalsang and 17-year-old former monk Damchoek set themselves on fire on Monday outside Kirti monastery in Aba county in the south-west Chinese province of Sichuan. They died later that day in hospital, Free Tibet said.
WHEN