Should Irish law change to give single dads more rights to there children. ( Archived) (34)

As a matter of interest, what would you think would make it better for Dads in Ireland. In what way do you mean more rights?

No parent has a right to their children, it is not a human right. It is a child's right to have parents who love them and rear them in the best way possible, as a parent that is your responsibility. Why we have 'parental responisbility' If a parent chooses to give that up, then that is their own choice.

I am fond of UK family law and the way that it holds it's power over families, who are separating. No court, judge or authority can take a child from it's parent, only a parent can do that. A parent can ensure that they remain in a child's life and only that parent can do that, as any relationship, that between a child and it's parent has to be nurtured and loved. I was involved in a dispute between the father of my children and I and took it out of the courts, by ensuring that my children could have a healthy balanced loving relationship with both parents and no court could alter that.

Don't rely on the law systems to help you to be a parent, that is your responsibility and yours alone.

its not just ireland but everywhere that fathers rights need to be expanded we should not all pay for the mistakes of a few deadbeat dads

When people of a country give all their rights away, how can they expect to get new ones?

yes but not all mothers are as sharing with their childeren as you some even use the children as a weapon to hurt the father and the courts rarely side with the dad regardless of how good a father he is

In Ireland Somme if the parents are not married then the father has no automatic rights to be included in the childs life. I get your point about it being the childs right to have parents who love and rear them, but as it stands here if the Mother decides that she doesnt want the father involved then that is the case unless he goes through a lengthy court process.

This topic has come up before under a different 'theme'. I am surprised that the organisation for Single Fathers hasn't challenged the constitutionality of the legislation currently in place.

This is not the proper forum to thrash this out in full, but it is worth stating that Single Fathers could bring an action in the Supreme Court in defence of the 'Childs' Personal rights as enshrined in Article 40.3.1 and 42.5

Article 40.3.1
"The State guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as far as practiable, by its laws to defend and vindicate the personal rights of the citizen."

Article 42.5
"In exceptional cases, where parents for physical or moral reasons fail in their duty towards their children, the State as guardian of the common good, by appropriate means shall endeavour to supply the place of the parents, but always with due regard for the natural and imprescriptible rights of the child."

If the emphasis of the argument is balanced in favour of the Child's rights being denied, then I believe there is some chance of success.

Hi there Vonney. Thank you for bringing me up to speed on Irish law. I know lots about UK family law, but like Scotland I was aware that certain differences are in place but was unsure of them.

In the UK, if the parents are not married, then unless he is present, the father cannot be named as the father on the birth certificate. Therefore he does not have what we all have, which is parental responsibility. A father can apply for parental responsibility and is usually given 50%. But not many people know this and therefore many fathers are not aware and feel they have no rights to their child, which makes it difficult when a parent files for contact with his child. Usually a blood test is ordered to confirm if there is any dispute at all. In some aspects, I do believe this is correct when a mother wants nothing other than cash for her child. But many people get child support and child contact mixed up. They are two separate issues.

If a mother does not want a father involved in a child's life, and it has gone to court, then there has to be a good reason. Child support aside and this is where many people are confused, because they feel that yes, they do not want the father in their life, but they still want the cash. Any decent man would be wanting to support their child aside from the acrimonious battle going on with it's mother, but yes men's rights are overlooked in these cases and during the work that I did and studied as I was a child of a bitter custody dispute, then I found this out.

Conflict in family courts are not usually looked at between the parents, it is the best interests of the child, they claim. Which is where loving families are eroded and the child in the end misses out.

My children had the right of both their parents and I pulled out of the court process knowing that we getting nowhere, tearing their loyalties and making them frightened to love us for fear of favouritising one over the other and that is what family courts do, they continue to allow this to happen. And it becomes a mess. Contact orders are issued and they mean nothing, a breach of an order, nothing can be done about and familes give up and children are left without one parent in their life and that is never in the best interests of the child. Which brings me to my point, a parent with parental responsibility can still be involved in that child's life, with their schools and their recreational lives. No court can prevent that. Even if the mother is being difficult, a father can have indirect contact, by the way of letters and calls. The courts rarely sort out disputes over contact. Hence why we have so many campaigners to improve family law in the UK.

Just yet another example of why Ireland needs to get its backside into the 21st Century..

I agree WWW, in any country all parents should be given the right to have contact with their child, despite gender. My father fought the system for three years before he was granted custody. Not because he did not want my mother to have us, but because she was so ill that he had to make a choice and he was the only person who could care for us. She was unable to and he had to do something. In the UK, it is no longer called custody, it is called residency and any parent, be it the mother or father who wants a child/children to live with them with the other parent having contact if it cannot be sorted out between them has to apply for residency of their own children and often that can be contested because of the child support laws which the amount is worked out on a pro rata basis, so if one parent has a child four days a week then that parent through the CSA will be granted child support from the parent who has child/children three days a week. The child support laws need to be addressed because this daft reasoning is what drives people to have these battles over children. Usually it is money oriented and then of course we have people like Vonney, who raise her children without a penny of support from the father of her children, I believe is the case, Vonney? Correct me if I am wrong? Who gets nowhere.

The law in the UK is a blanket law, fuelled by people's greed and also like Ireland needs to be brought up to date, it is an old Victorian law that is held in secret and it is completely appalling.

If you have nothing to contribute but ridicule, why bother?

I was originally (11 years ago) awarded 20 pound per week per child, I asked not to be named on the maintenance order as I am more than capable of working and providing for myself, my ex husband then gave up work so that his income was to low for him to pay anything towards the childrens upkeep.

The saddest thing is his lack of interest in them,I could have gone to court and forced him to have access to them but I decided against it, I didnt want my children to know that their Father only saw the because a judge said he had to.

gosh

its like any of the choices we have in these cases suck

yes there are successes but my experience is disappearing dads
and children always feel its their fault
and then i feel its my fault because i choose bad men so its actually all my fault

what a mess

Hi Vonney.

Many people do that and set up companies and pay themselves a low income so as to avoid any child support.

Yes, that is sad that he wants no part of being with the children and I can understand there is no point in forcing the issue in securing a court order to force him to see the children. That is his problem and should be his alone and not yours to force him to execute what is a lovely and rewarding job, that as a parent.

Who says it is your fault? How are you to know at the onset that a man will do a runner? None of us would have children or indeed get married if we thought this.

I am sorry Mindful, but you should never ever think it is your fault.

Oh how well I know hun, my youngest is the most effected, she is 13 and was 2 when her Dad and I seperated.She is attending teen counselling at the moment as she feels that it is her fault her Dad doesnt want her. And yes I chose to marry him and have children with him, so I must exceptmy part in the whole thing.

But I must also forgive myself, for holding onto it is doing nobody any good. Rightly or wrongly we make choices in our life, sometimes they dont work out for the best but we must move on.

I was contributing, actually.

I was making the point that Ireland needs to update some of its systems..

As a seperated father of 2 beautiful boys in Ireland and after going through the legal system I may shed some light on the topic....

Amazing rule 1.
If a father is not married to the mother of the child he has NO legal rights to that child. He has to go through the legal system to get guardianship and access. The whole idea that if your name is on the birth cert you have rights is false. it just strengthens you case for guardianship.
One case in the midlands 2 years ago saw a mother suffering with p.n.d put her daughter up for adoption and the father had to go through the adoption process the same as any other stranger for the chance to see his own child.

Amazing rule 2.
If joint custody is granted to both parents but the child only spends 1 overnight stay in the mothers home she is intitled to ALL financial support from the state AND maintenance from the father. Those supports include childerns allowance,early child benifit,school uniform allowence. All those will be granted to the mother in all but exceptional cases for as little as 12 days a year with the child.

They are just two examples of the Crazy laws in my country.

In my own case. My ex wife left and took both my kids. I spent 3 months fighting a legal systm that was stacked against me before I saw them again. My heart would break every night when i tucked up a photo of each of my boys in their cots before i went to bed, not knowing where they were or if they were safe. Oh and before ye ask I have never laid a hand in anger on either my wife or my boys. She left beacuse i had to go to sea with the naval service.
Thank god it has worked out for me and i get good access to my sons and i have a loving relationship with both of them.

I love my country, I really do but it needs to understand that a dads heart breaks just as much as a mums when he is seperated from his babies

sorry for ranting but i needed to have my say