Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses! (794)

Feb 5, 2011 10:39 AM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
AgntProvocateur
AgntProvocateurAgntProvocateurny, New York USA28 Posts
leigh2154: The tough question that remains is "which" documents did Assange decide to "selectively" make public and why......how many of the publicized documents were posed out of context to serve one man's purpose........is transparency to be placed above human life......is Assange an expert on military maneuvers in the Middle East, or does his true expertise lie in his ability to "HACK" and "STEAL"......what are the "real" implications of Julian Assange's theft and exposure of classified government documents......... what, if any, ulterior motives does Assange have.......WHO GAVE JULIAN ASSANGE THE RIGHT TO DECIDE WHO LIVES OR DIES.....

ironic statement,'selectively,'make public...
cable referenced:classified
result of classification: loss of lives
wikileaks:document drop site; no case pending or previous prosecutions for a wikileak,'hack';hacking illegal,theft illegal no pending prosecution for theft
wikileaks dissemination:intent unknown.organization not one individual.intent is left to supposition,speculation,human sensibilities,political affiliations,ideologies.
wikileaks premise:messenger,doesnt debate semantics,releases material,material left to individual populace to infer,employ critical thought,approve,disapprove
WHO GAVE JULIAN ASSANGE THE RIGHT TO DECIDE WHO LIVES OR DIES.....
WHO GIVES AND EMPOWERS ANY MAN TO DECIDE WHO LIVES OR DIE.....
agnt provocateur doesnt endorse nor does he either defend or intentionally promotes 'wikileaks'. was not about 'wikileaks,'as its being misconstrued,maligned,and marginalized now;neither does he endorse paradigms of left and right,political'idealism' and or niavete.all world governments;government by the banks,for the banks.
quote from patriarch of global presidential family:"Give me control of the economics of a country; and I care not who makes her laws."
old hats: old hat,new revelation.all old hats ,new head.playbook never changes just the players.question is is it a bowler or a mafioso fedora this time.
thought for the day on truth and transparency once informed,
English philosopher Edmund Burke said, ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.’
Feb 5, 2011 10:39 AM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
katt1017: Just as an aside...



Do you think raphael118 resembles your old friend who used to live by the BAY?
Anything possible these days!uh oh
Feb 5, 2011 10:45 AM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
AgntProvocateur: ironic statement,'selectively,'make public...
cable referenced:classified
result of classification: loss of lives
wikileaks:document drop site; no case pending or previous prosecutions for a wikileak,'hack';hacking illegal,theft illegal no pending prosecution for theft
wikileaks dissemination:intent unknown.organization not one individual.intent is left to supposition,speculation,human sensibilities,political affiliations,ideologies.
wikileaks premise:messenger,doesnt debate semantics,releases material,material left to individual populace to infer,employ critical thought,approve,disapprove
WHO GAVE JULIAN ASSANGE THE RIGHT TO DECIDE WHO LIVES OR DIES.....
WHO GIVES AND EMPOWERS ANY MAN TO DECIDE WHO LIVES OR DIE.....
agnt provocateur doesnt endorse nor does he either defend or intentionally promotes 'wikileaks'. was not about 'wikileaks,'as its being misconstrued,maligned,and marginalized now;neither does he endorse paradigms of left and right,political'idealism' and or niavete.all world governments;government by the banks,for the banks.
quote from patriarch of global presidential family:"Give me control of the economics of a country; and I care not who makes her laws."
old hats: old hat,new revelation.all old hats ,new head.playbook never changes just the players.question is is it a bowler or a mafioso fedora this time.
thought for the day on truth and transparency once informed,
English philosopher Edmund Burke said, ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.’


Better slow to think your post thru some.....

We have economics....wikileaks....truth and transperency....good and evil....a global presidential family....government of banks..and oh so much more posted here.
The proverbial if you cannot hit them with a single shot....throw the grape shot into the cannon and blast away. doh
Feb 5, 2011 10:49 AM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
leigh2154
leigh2154leigh2154Crossville, Tennessee USA5 Threads 6,408 Posts
ironic statement,'selectively,'make public...
cable referenced:classified

result of classification: loss of lives
wikileaks:document drop site; no case pending or previous prosecutions for a wikileak,'hack';hacking illegal,theft illegal no pending prosecution for theft
wikileaks dissemination:intent unknown.organization not one individual.intent is left to supposition,speculation,human sensibilities,political affiliations,ideologies.
wikileaks premise:messenger,doesnt debate semantics,releases material,material left to individual populace to infer,employ critical thought,approve,disapprove
WHO GAVE JULIAN ASSANGE THE RIGHT TO DECIDE WHO LIVES OR DIES.....
WHO GIVES AND EMPOWERS ANY MAN TO DECIDE WHO LIVES OR DIE.....
agnt provocateur doesnt endorse nor does he either defend or intentionally promotes 'wikileaks'. was not about 'wikileaks,'as its being misconstrued,maligned,and marginalized now;neither does he endorse paradigms of left and right,political'idealism' and or niavete.all world governments;government by the banks,for the banks.
quote from patriarch of global presidential family:"Give me control of the economics of a country; and I care not who makes her laws."
old hats: old hat,new revelation.all old hats ,new head.playbook never changes just the players.question is is it a bowler or a mafioso fedora this time.
thought for the day on truth and transparency once informed,
English philosopher Edmund Burke said, ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.’[/quot

Yes, Assange has stated many time and during live, televised, interviews that he is still in possession of about 2/3 of the stolen documents and he has titled them his "DOOMSDAY FILES" . He goes on to explain publicly they are his ace in the hole if he is indeed prosecuted by the US......
Feb 5, 2011 10:54 AM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!


Iranian supremo hails Egypt and Tunisia uprisings as "Islamic liberation movement"; crowd chants "Death to America," "Death to Israel"

In much of the American media, Islamic spokesmen and their Leftist allies scoff at those who are warning about the Islamic supremacist character of these revolts, and dismissing the idea that they could lead to the establishment of Sharia states there. I guess Khamenei must be an ignorant Islamophobe as well.

"Khamenei hails 'Islamic' uprisings: Iranian supreme leader urges Egyptians to follow in the footsteps of Iran's 1979 revolution," from Al-Jazeera, February 4 (thanks to Block Ness):

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran's supreme leader has called the uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia an "Islamic liberation movement".

In his address, during Friday prayers at Tehran University in Iran's capital, he said that people are witnessing the reverberations of Iran's 1979 Islamic revolution.

"The awakening of the Islamic Egyptian people is an Islamic liberation movement and I, in the name of the Iranian government, salute the Egyptian people.........


Keep on reading at the Link
Feb 5, 2011 11:00 AM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
Assuange can go public with every secret the US has ever made.
It does not matter. It just makes each of the writers and the
those that memo the material....safe from prosecution as it is then "fruit of the poison tree"

That is a legal concept.....here is a link.



This was done several times during the Cold war. A release of incriminating documents occurred via some theft or breach of the
US secrets act. In CIA lingo...it is called "white washing".
Feb 5, 2011 11:33 AM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
jlw45
jlw45jlw45Moyers, Oklahoma USA66 Threads 1 Polls 15,566 Posts
leigh2154: The "Poison Tree" loop is not what I am concerned about TT...I think about the repercussions from exposing classified docs and to whom...........
confused are you sure you're in the right thread ?...dunno rolling on the floor laughing just messin' with yawink grin teddybear
Feb 5, 2011 11:35 AM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
leigh2154: The "Poison Tree" loop is not what I am concerned about TT...I think about the repercussions from exposing classified docs and to whom...........


Everyone knows how to build a nuc, Leigh....that has been on the net for year. Or make any other kind of WMD that is out there.

So wikileaks does not effect really the weapons...as so much the operations. Here....a wikileak user will take some bit of info...like was done here...take it out of context....and you have nations sectretary of state yelling at each other.

That is one real goal here. To break down international relationship between governments. They used the mass reports of Iraq and afghanistan to hide that contest messages in. Those that dig them out....feel like they have done the world a favor and some grave wrong of the past is exposed.

The other real goal here. And were fruit of the piosonious tree come into play....is not just for US officials....but any that might be charged by the US government. Here....those GITMO detainees....just get another chance for the get out of jail card. Or if alAwalki was captured tomorrow...and there were wikileak document on him that led to this.....

But the US government started to relocate and take people into the protection program .....so I don't think that your concern on people getting in more danger is as bad as it might be.
Feb 5, 2011 11:46 AM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
leigh2154
leigh2154leigh2154Crossville, Tennessee USA5 Threads 6,408 Posts
ttom500: Everyone knows how to build a nuc, Leigh....that has been on the net for year. Or make any other kind of WMD that is out there.

So wikileaks does not effect really the weapons...as so much the operations. Here....a wikileak user will take some bit of info...like was done here...take it out of context....and you have nations sectretary of state yelling at each other.

That is one real goal here. To break down international relationship between governments. They used the mass reports of Iraq and afghanistan to hide that contest messages in. Those that dig them out....feel like they have done the world a favor and some grave wrong of the past is exposed.

The other real goal here. And were fruit of the piosonious tree come into play....is not just for US officials....but any that might be charged by the US government. Here....those GITMO detainees....just get another chance for the get out of jail card. Or if alAwalki was captured tomorrow...and there were wikileak document on him that led to this.....

But the US government started to relocate and take people into the protection program .....so I don't think that your concern on people getting in more danger is as bad as it might be.


My concerns are not just goverment/military TT...Assange also claims to have banking info....American Express info...infor on BP....and I am not just talking about death at his hand...the guy is menace.....
Feb 5, 2011 11:57 AM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
Stop and consider for a moment.

The 120,000 foreign fighter that the Bush admisntration had
been holding in Iraq are set free. Several months ago by the Obama/Maliki decision of the time. Then they go home. And we have street protest occurring across the Muslim world.

Except in Iran. There were a number of Iranian released then as well. But the street protest in Iran, over the election had already cooled. And the Iranian arrested were likely members of the Revolutionary Guard....so they are not going to street protest in Iran.

But you have in 2008, the US intelligence agencies...saying send these guys home....and you will have trouble in those countries. Obama had to know that. It had to be in the transtition report of GWB adminstration. The one that Biden and Obama could not be bothered with....

Washington knew 4-5 months ago trouble was coming to the middle east. Instead of putting travel advisories out...to keep American safe and planning different trips....they failed to. So we end up with 52,000 American in the middle of a revolution in Egypt.

Obama used those 120,000 foreign fighter in Iraq. Just as he is using the 52,000 American in Egypt. To bring about a foreign government change. He would not let Hosni Mubarak on the stage with him during the Cairo address. Those giving the liberals in Egypt a starting point for a rebellion. Not only that, when Mubarak frees Nour, in 2009....Does the White House make a big issue of it? No. Not a whisper or thank you from the White House.

This all tells me....that Washington and Cairo have been at odds...and that the Obama White House has been planning this for some time.

A few months ago, I saw a National Geographic special on Egypt and the US Embassy. A embassy staffer, a black guy was taking the NG film crew thru a poor part of Cairo. He knew all the street vendors by name. Am saying to myself...how does a US Embassy staffer send so much time in this section of Cairo....that he knows the vendors by name? A US embassy staffer has plenty on his table. Unless ordered to make the
associations....

It is adding up now.....
Feb 5, 2011 12:07 PM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
A litte more to the addition here.

Then mentioned black US Embassy staffer.....was wearing one of those black leather coats...just like Obama's security detail of the 2008 Presidential race. I found that strange as well since it was a mild summer night in Cairo. And most were in short sleeves.
Feb 5, 2011 12:17 PM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
ttom500: A litte more to the addition here.

Then mentioned black US Embassy staffer.....was wearing one of those black leather coats...just like Obama's security detail of the 2008 Presidential race. I found that strange as well since it was a mild summer night in Cairo. And most were in short sleeves.
Plenty Space left under Obama's Bus!barf

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Feb 5, 2011 2:51 PM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
leigh2154
leigh2154leigh2154Crossville, Tennessee USA5 Threads 6,408 Posts
Conrad73: Plenty Space left under Obama's Bus!


The Daaaaaaaaaaancing Soros' Puppet!!


dancing dancing dancing dancing dancing

cool
Feb 5, 2011 2:59 PM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
leigh2154: The Daaaaaaaaaaancing Soros' Puppet!!
Honey, Soros is relatively broke nowadays but his craftiness has grown exponentially over the last few years, expanding him beyond especulation (I think he has left his Alchemy of the Market to be used and developed by a new generation of speculators faced with hard and more frequent economic crisis). There are some especulations around his close ties with lobbysts protecting Israel interests. Of course, Israel interests above US´s ones. What do you think about this? lips
Feb 5, 2011 3:23 PM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
Faithfulness
FaithfulnessFaithfulnessWaukesha, Wisconsin USA2 Threads 1,056 Posts
You're replying to post made by: Hot_Single_Dude

What lies? for you the most important of him is him being a "Muslim" right *JlW? He is no muslim and really if he was then what?


A MUST READ FOR ALL FREEDOM LOVING, AMERICAN, CHRISTIANS AND JEWS: THE BEST ARTICLE CWN HAS READ YET WHY OBAMA'S MUSLIM ROOTS MATTER

Posted: 01/09/08

A MUST READ for All Freedom Loving, American, Christians and Jews: The Best Article CWN Has Read Yet Why Obama's Muslim Roots Matter.

Click here to read this article and then return to our site to post your feedback:

Obama, the Muslim Thing, And Why It Matters
by Pamela Geller




Distributed by
Feb 5, 2011 3:25 PM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
leigh2154
leigh2154leigh2154Crossville, Tennessee USA5 Threads 6,408 Posts
Antjo39: Honey, Soros is relatively broke nowadays but his craftiness has grown exponentially over the last few years, expanding him beyond especulation (I think he has left his Alchemy of the Market to be used and developed by a new generation of speculators faced with hard and more frequent economic crisis). There are some especulations around his close ties with lobbysts protecting Israel interests. Of course, Israel interests above US´s ones. What do you think about this?


wave I think George is a little too liberal for my taste Antjo, speculatively speaking of course!!!rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing


dancing dancing dancing

cool
Feb 5, 2011 3:33 PM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
leigh2154: I think George is a little too liberal for my taste Antjo, speculatively speaking of course!!!
So you don´t like liberals, let alone anarchists... so will you drop your amante anrquista de sudamérica?? Babe, si te fueras, el sol no volvería a asomarse jamás detrás de las montañas...lips kiss sigh
Feb 5, 2011 4:18 PM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
leigh2154
leigh2154leigh2154Crossville, Tennessee USA5 Threads 6,408 Posts
Antjo39: So you don´t like liberals, let alone anarchists... so will you drop your amante anrquista de sudamérica?? Babe, si te fueras, el sol no volvería a asomarse jamás detrás de las montañas...


Quiza quiza Antjo, por el correctamente persona......, estar enamorado si.......wine
Feb 5, 2011 4:19 PM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
leigh2154: Quiza quiza Antjo, por el correctamente persona......, estar enamorado si.......
sigh lips lips lips yay
Feb 5, 2011 6:44 PM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
Well sometimes a envoy just does not say the right thing. President Obama sent a former Egyptian ambassador to meet with Mubarak and give a assessment.

On his return...former Ambassador Winer (Clinton ADmisntration)
said Mubarak should stay thru the transtition. At which point the White House bus pushed Winer out the door faster than it was planning to do to Mubarak.

Winer logic is that you need someone in charge to see the transtition occurs. The White House logic is Mubarak must go and must go now. Oh that is a street protester cry.......

After Winer's remarks the White House was quick to say they had not been coordinated with the White House and does not reflect the White House position on Egypt.grin
Feb 5, 2011 6:48 PM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
Actractorguy
ActractorguyActractorguyTims Ford Lake, Tennessee USA26 Threads 7 Polls 2,089 Posts
ttom500: Well sometimes a envoy just does not say the right thing. President Obama sent a former Egyptian ambassador to meet with Mubarak and give a assessment.

On his return...former Ambassador Winer (Clinton ADmisntration)
said Mubarak should stay thru the transtition. At which point the White House bus pushed Winer out the door faster than it was planning to do to Mubarak.

Winer logic is that you need someone in charge to see the transtition occurs. The White House logic is Mubarak must go and must go now. Oh that is a street protester cry.......

After Winer's remarks the White House was quick to say they had not been coordinated with the White House and does not reflect the White House position on Egypt.



So what your saying is your either on the bus with us and our policy or we throw you under the bus at our whim if we don't like what you have to say. rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing
Feb 5, 2011 9:33 PM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
Actractorguy: So what your saying is your either on the bus with us and our policy or we throw you under the bus at our whim if we don't like what you have to say.


You got the idea.....but you need to tie into my earlier comments on motives of the White House to want Mubarak out.....
Feb 6, 2011 6:30 AM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
Looks like Mubarak might stay.....opps......someone dropped the ball.....then miss the inbound pass...the lay up.....and the jump ball all on the same play.)) But street protest are thinning in Cairo.

Dude....President Obama gives the Chamber of Commerce a Address
on his economic program. It has to be a real bummer, to have him flip out on you like that. Those nasty foreign money magnates
getting their own personalized message from the President.
grin

Leigh...see what little Huron Indian Peace Dancing will do?dancing dancing dancing We got them to settle down
in Cairo. When one want something down in the world come to
a REPublican that knows how to get it done.....grin rolling on the floor laughing

The Obama administraiton is making the biggest moon walk on Egypt to date...now saying it never pressured Mubarak to leave.
Hillary did it yesterday Was repeated today. Envoy Winer is looking like bloody master mind.....while the Obama adminstration distanced itself from him. While moon walking right over the cliff on Egypt.....

I just have to wonder.....did Winer's report first go to foreign
President Clinton and Sect. State Clinton prior to the White House?laugh rolling on the floor laughing grin
Feb 6, 2011 6:46 AM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
Antjo39: Honey, Soros is relatively broke nowadays but his craftiness has grown exponentially over the last few years, expanding him beyond especulation (I think he has left his Alchemy of the Market to be used and developed by a new generation of speculators faced with hard and more frequent economic crisis). There are some especulations around his close ties with lobbysts protecting Israel interests. Of course, Israel interests above US´s ones. What do you think about this?
Soros!
Pro-Israel?
Embedded image from another site
Feb 6, 2011 7:09 AM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
leigh2154
leigh2154leigh2154Crossville, Tennessee USA5 Threads 6,408 Posts
ttom500: Looks like Mubarak might stay.....opps......someone dropped the ball.....then miss the inbound pass...the lay up.....and the jump ball all on the same play.)) But street protest are thinning in Cairo.

Dude....President Obama gives the Chamber of Commerce a Address
on his economic program. It has to be a real bummer, to have him flip out on you like that. Those nasty foreign money magnates
getting their own personalized message from the President.


Leigh...see what little Huron Indian Peace Dancing will do? We got them to settle down
in Cairo. When one want something down in the world come to
a REPublican that knows how to get it done.....

The Obama administraiton is making the biggest moon walk on Egypt to date...now saying it never pressured Mubarak to leave.
Hillary did it yesterday Was repeated today. Envoy Winer is looking like bloody master mind.....while the Obama adminstration distanced itself from him. While moon walking right over the cliff on Egypt.....

I just have to wonder.....did Winer's report first go to foreign
President Clinton and Sect. State Clinton prior to the White House?


The Obama Administration....ALWAYS a day late and a dollar sort concerning events in Egypt...
Respond rather than dictate....GET OFF THE ROPES OBAMA!!!...
His famous 2009 Cairo speech... did it help the problem or enforce the problem...I say it went pretty far to enforce the problem!
Just recently Hillary Clinton claimed Egypt government stable...!!!!!!
frustrated
Once again the Obama administration manages to pull off the near impossible.....ALIENATE all parties involved and do it all at once......!!!!!
Opinion, mine....There IS a price to pay when adhering to "restraint" based foreign policy.....
What are they thinking?...What is their strategy?....I don't know and I don't think they do either!!!!!
Feb 6, 2011 7:11 AM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
FreddyFudpucker
FreddyFudpuckerFreddyFudpuckerObamaville, Indiana USA10,179 Posts
leigh2154: The Obama Administration....ALWAYS a day late and a dollar sort concerning events in Egypt...
Respond rather than dictate....GET OFF THE ROPES OBAMA!!!...
His famous 2009 Cairo speech... did it help the problem or enforce the problem...I say it went pretty far to enforce the problem!
Just recently Hillary Clinton claimed Egypt government stable...!!!!!!

Once again the Obama administration manages to pull off the near impossible.....ALIENATE all parties involved and do it all at once......!!!!!
Opinion, mine....There IS a price to pay when adhering to "restraint" based foreign policy.....
What are they thinking?...What is their strategy?....I don't know and I don't think they do either!!!!!



I think maybe when Obama and his staff are "all over the road", it does leave the flexibility to say..."we were right".


jmo
Feb 6, 2011 7:27 AM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
FreddyFudpucker
FreddyFudpuckerFreddyFudpuckerObamaville, Indiana USA10,179 Posts
this is an excellent read:

Two huge processes are happening right before our eyes. One is the Arab liberation revolution. After half a century during which tyrants have ruled the Arab world, their control is weakening. After 40 years of decaying stability, the rot is eating into the stability. The Arab masses will no longer accept what they used to accept. The Arab elites will no longer remain silent.

Processes that have been roiling beneath the surface for about a decade are suddenly bursting out in an intifada of freedom. Modernization, globalization, telecommunications and Islamization have created a critical mass that cannot be stopped.

The scenes are similar to the Palestinian intifada of 1987, but the collapse recalls the Soviet collapse in Eastern Europe of 1989. No one knows where the intifada will lead. No one knows whether it will bring democracy, theocracy or a new kind of democracy. But things will never again be the same.

The old order in the Middle East is crumbling. Just as the officers' revolution in the 1950s brought down the Arab monarchism that had relied on the colonial powers, the 2011 revolution in the square is bringing down the Arab tyrants who were dependent on the United States.

The second process is the acceleration of the decline of the West. For some 60 years the West gave the world imperfect but stable order. It built a kind of post-imperial empire that promised relative quiet and maximum peace. The rise of China, India, Brazil and Russia, like the economic crisis in the United States, has made it clear that the empire is beginning to fade.

And yet, the West has maintained a sort of international hegemony. Just as no replacement has been found for the dollar, none has been found for North Atlantic leadership. But Western countries' poor handling of the Middle East proves they are no longer leaders. Right before our eyes the superpowers are turning into palaver powers.

There are no excuses for the contradictions. How can it be that Bush's America understood the problem of repression in the Arab world, but Obama's America ignored it until last week? How can it be that in May 2009, Hosni Mubarak was an esteemed president whom Barack Obama respected, and in January 2011, Mubarak is a dictator whom even Obama is casting aside? How can it be that in June 2009, Obama didn't support the masses who came out against the zealot Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, while now he stands by the masses who are coming out against the moderate Mubarak?

There is one answer: The West's position is not a moral one that reflects a real commitment to human rights. The West's position reflects the adoption of Jimmy Carter's worldview: kowtowing to benighted, strong tyrants while abandoning moderate, weak ones.

Carter's betrayal of the Shah brought us the ayatollahs, and will soon bring us ayatollahs with nuclear arms. The consequences of the West's betrayal of Mubarak will be no less severe. It's not only a betrayal of a leader who was loyal to the West, served stability and encouraged moderation. It's a betrayal of every ally of the West in the Middle East and the developing world. The message is sharp and clear: The West's word is no word at all; an alliance with the West is not an alliance. The West has lost it. The West has stopped being a leading and stabilizing force around the world.

The Arab liberation revolution will fundamentally change the Middle East. The acceleration of the West's decline will change the world. One outcome will be a surge toward China, Russia and regional powers like Brazil, Turkey and Iran. Another will be a series of international flare-ups stemming from the West's lost deterrence. But the overall outcome will be the collapse of North Atlantic political hegemony not in decades, but in years. When the United States and Europe bury Mubarak now, they are also burying the powers they once were. In Cairo's Tahrir Square, the age of Western hegemony is fading away.
Feb 6, 2011 7:39 AM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
FreddyFudpucker
FreddyFudpuckerFreddyFudpuckerObamaville, Indiana USA10,179 Posts
leigh2154: Ya think????????


Is the pope catholic? laugh
Feb 6, 2011 7:45 AM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
leigh2154
leigh2154leigh2154Crossville, Tennessee USA5 Threads 6,408 Posts
ttom500: We were "right" to the cliff. Am having a Thelma and Louise moment here.....


Oooooooooooo, I loved that movie TT...........especially the ending...grin
Feb 6, 2011 7:48 AM CST Most promisses of Obama are kept WHEN and IF possible! Support him keeping all of his promisses!
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
I don' understand....they have got Mubarak on the ropes. But they are not staying in the fight to finish him off? Maybe they are worried about the civil war that can come from this.

But when they started the protest....that course was taken.

Both Washington and Tehran read this totally wrong...if they back down now. I can understand us missing it. We do it all the time. But Tehran? When they have foreign instigators in the protestors?

Some thing strange is happening....like Jimmy Hendrix use to say.

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