Should We Cull The Over-50s??! (419)
TrueBlue1986: Ahhh yes, Thatcher - China's best friend and the enemy of anybody who isn't a toff.
And I disagree, I think your generation has ruined the economy and saddled us with lifelong debt, I see that you are, as a generation, lazy and undisciplined compared to what England knew before you and so have no position to criticise my generation for inheriting your bad traits.
And I disagree, I think your generation has ruined the economy and saddled us with lifelong debt, I see that you are, as a generation, lazy and undisciplined compared to what England knew before you and so have no position to criticise my generation for inheriting your bad traits.
I will say I admire you for sticking to your guns and I respect the fact that you conduct a very civilised debate, but you need to think along broader horizons. The seeds of the present economic situation were sown long before any of us were born. Our present financial system was first adopted hundreds of years ago, it's what is known as "Debt Money". Basically the Banks, or money houses as they were origionally known, lend out more than they actually hold in reserve, usually at a ratio of 9 to 1. That system has an inherant fault that results in an economic downturn roughly every 20 to 25 years, and each downturn is worse than the previous one. That has been happening since the 17th century. So whilst I will grant you that certain members of "our generation" have been unwise with their financial dealings, it wouldn't have made much of a difference to todays situation even if they had been wiser. We inherited it from a previous generation, you will inherit it from us, and a future generation will inherit it from you. It's certainly not "our generations" fault that we have a flawed financial system. This system is so complicated that no one individual fully understands it's workings, and with all due respect to you and any other younger people out there, youth and enthusiasm alone are not going to solve the problem, decades of experiance in fanancial matters are what is required to even begin to try to rectify the problem, and those decades of experiance can only come with age.
bestbefore: Well I can't speak for the rest of my generation ,but all I know is that I was born during a war,saw my parents work hard to provide a home ,and care for me and my brother.
We weren't blessed with modern day "toys" such as computors,Ipods the list is endless ,yet we were happy and were raised in a country that was trying to get back on it's feet after a war. There were no problems with drugs in those days either.
I in turn have done the same for my children and seen them turn in to responsible adults.
The youth of today is no comparison to those of my generation I can assure you.
By the way I'm not a fan of Mrs. Thatcher either,but please don't insult me by telling me that I'm responsible for the mess you feel you are in.
To put the blame on others is just passing the buck. I would be interested in knowing how you would like your world to shape up to your expectations and what you intend to do about it.
No good protesting if you are not prepared to put in some hard graft .Words come cheap it's actions that count.
We weren't blessed with modern day "toys" such as computors,Ipods the list is endless ,yet we were happy and were raised in a country that was trying to get back on it's feet after a war. There were no problems with drugs in those days either.
I in turn have done the same for my children and seen them turn in to responsible adults.
The youth of today is no comparison to those of my generation I can assure you.
By the way I'm not a fan of Mrs. Thatcher either,but please don't insult me by telling me that I'm responsible for the mess you feel you are in.
To put the blame on others is just passing the buck. I would be interested in knowing how you would like your world to shape up to your expectations and what you intend to do about it.
No good protesting if you are not prepared to put in some hard graft .Words come cheap it's actions that count.
Well, I work in a proper field which creates wealth in Britain - which as one man is the most important thing I can do for my country. After that, you're talking politics.
And I don't think my generation are particularly good people, but I agree with my Grandad when he used to say it all started to go wrong in the 1960's - which are today's over 50's.
OK Trueblue, I may have been a little harsh but only for some of your statements but do respect the way you handled yourself in most cases therefore giving you the benefit of the doubt as you are young and not to say you are illerate but most ppl on this thread are older & have much more experience than you. I also respect the fact that at least you are trying and hopefully you will absorb some of the knowledge these fine minds have to offer. 
venusenvy: Alright!! Cull me Baby!! woot woot!!!
Are we Hijacking here? 
SummerUK: Oh I know hon and I think the same thing. If they have such strong passions about politics etc and have incredibly strong opinions about how things should be done then why whine all day and every day about it on here? If they want the world to change and they think they have all the answwers, they should step up and carry the mantle
Are you suggesting that the op is a fluffy flirty one?
Are you suggesting that a forum debate should be censored to exclude it from touching on anything contentious?
Who are they?
TrueBlue1986: I think we struggle to find qualities to respect in the older generation, if i'm honest. And it may not be so bad, we have got a lot of hard work ahead of us in our lifetimes and I think that in time we'll have much more character than your generation because of it. I certainly don't think it's the case that people become progressively more spoilt indefinitely, there must be a U-turn at some point.
You sincerely cannot believe what you are saying here....
TrueBlue1986: Well, I work in a proper field which creates wealth in Britain - which as one man is the most important thing I can do for my country. After that, you're talking politics.
And I don't think my generation are particularly good people, but I agree with my Grandad when he used to say it all started to go wrong in the 1960's - which are today's over 50's.
And I don't think my generation are particularly good people, but I agree with my Grandad when he used to say it all started to go wrong in the 1960's - which are today's over 50's.
Well unless they started shaping the world when they where 0-10 years old, I would say you are talking about the over 70's. You would have needed to have been born in 1940 or before to be at least 20 in 1960 and be old enough to have an influence on the shaping of the world.
People who are in their fifties at the moment were babies in the 60's. Can't see how a baby or child can be blamed for anything that "started going wrong in the 60s"
This is not JMHO. Thses are FACTS!!!!!!
drbombay: Are we Hijacking here?
Maaaabye
Rockabillyrouge: I will say I admire you for sticking to your guns and I respect the fact that you conduct a very civilised debate, but you need to think along broader horizons. The seeds of the present economic situation were sown long before any of us were born. Our present financial system was first adopted hundreds of years ago, it's what is known as "Debt Money". Basically the Banks, or money houses as they were origionally known, lend out more than they actually hold in reserve, usually at a ratio of 9 to 1. That system has an inherant fault that results in an economic downturn roughly every 20 to 25 years, and each downturn is worse than the previous one. That has been happening since the 17th century. So whilst I will grant you that certain members of "our generation" have been unwise with their financial dealings, it wouldn't have made much of a difference to todays situation even if they had been wiser. We inherited it from a previous generation, you will inherit it from us, and a future generation will inherit it from you. It's certainly not "our generations" fault that we have a flawed financial system. This system is so complicated that no one individual fully understands it's workings, and with all due respect to you and any other younger people out there, youth and enthusiasm alone are not going to solve the problem, decades of experiance in fanancial matters are what is required to even begin to try to rectify the problem, and those decades of experiance can only come with age.
I'm aware of the history of banking, boom and bust and so on. However, this is no ordinary downturn, we've shifted our position globally which hasn't happened in centuries - and even then that was placing ourselves at the top.
Besides, what of the factories? The mines? Steelworks? - many of these things we spend a fortune on importing, today - I'd say losing them was a fault.
drbombay: OK Trueblue, I may have been a little harsh but only for some of your statements but do respect the way you handled yourself in most cases therefore giving you the benefit of the doubt as you are young and not to say you are illerate but most ppl on this thread are older & have much more experience than you. I also respect the fact that at least you are trying and hopefully you will absorb some of the knowledge these fine minds have to offer.
I would just like to add(food for thought) that some of the problems today are from present generation ie: Politics, religion & ECONOMY which is most important for the world is influenced by MONEY(unfortunate but is reality). Kaybee50: You sincerely cannot believe what you are saying here....
Yes I do. People change with the times when they have to, and times are getting tougher.
ColonelBogey: Are you suggesting that the op is a fluffy flirty one?
Are you suggesting that a forum debate should be censored to exclude it from touching on anything contentious?
Who are they?
No I'm not suggesting that. She's a friend of mine and very intelligent. My post was nothing to do with her so what I'm suggesting now is that you read ALL posts that someone makes and then you may have a clue Are you suggesting that a forum debate should be censored to exclude it from touching on anything contentious?
Who are they?
TrueBlue1986: Ahhh yes, Thatcher - China's best friend and the enemy of anybody who isn't a toff.
And I disagree, I think your generation has ruined the economy and saddled us with lifelong debt, I see that you are, as a generation, lazy and undisciplined compared to what England knew before you and so have no position to criticise my generation for inheriting your bad traits.
Lazy and undisciplined??? Do you know what it is like to work 80 plus hours a week for months, even years on end, not for self-purposes, but for the betterment of others?And I disagree, I think your generation has ruined the economy and saddled us with lifelong debt, I see that you are, as a generation, lazy and undisciplined compared to what England knew before you and so have no position to criticise my generation for inheriting your bad traits.
bestbefore: Well I can't speak for the rest of my generation ,but all I know is that I was born during a war,saw my parents work hard to provide a home ,and care for me and my brother.
We weren't blessed with modern day "toys" such as computors,Ipods the list is endless ,yet we were happy and were raised in a country that was trying to get back on it's feet after a war. There were no problems with drugs in those days either.
I in turn have done the same for my children and seen them turn in to responsible adults.
The youth of today is no comparison to those of my generation I can assure you.
By the way I'm not a fan of Mrs. Thatcher either,but please don't insult me by telling me that I'm responsible for the mess you feel you are in.
To put the blame on others is just passing the buck. I would be interested in knowing how you would like your world to shape up to your expectations and what you intend to do about it.
No good protesting if you are not prepared to put in some hard graft .Words come cheap it's actions that count.
We weren't blessed with modern day "toys" such as computors,Ipods the list is endless ,yet we were happy and were raised in a country that was trying to get back on it's feet after a war. There were no problems with drugs in those days either.
I in turn have done the same for my children and seen them turn in to responsible adults.
The youth of today is no comparison to those of my generation I can assure you.
By the way I'm not a fan of Mrs. Thatcher either,but please don't insult me by telling me that I'm responsible for the mess you feel you are in.
To put the blame on others is just passing the buck. I would be interested in knowing how you would like your world to shape up to your expectations and what you intend to do about it.
No good protesting if you are not prepared to put in some hard graft .Words come cheap it's actions that count.
Kaybee50: Lazy and undisciplined??? Do you know what it is like to work 80 plus hours a week for months, even years on end, not for self-purposes, but for the betterment of others?
There's more people than just you in the world, it would be ridiculous of me to say every person from your generation is lazy and undisciplined - but some, too many are, and now because of this, even more amongst my generation are this way, for the moment.
TrueBlue1986: There's more people than just you in the world, it would be ridiculous of me to say every person from your generation is lazy and undisciplined - but some, too many are, and now because of this, even more amongst my generation are this way, for the moment.
I brought up this subject True to my children, who range from 19 to 29 (6 of them) and they responded that they don't see exactly what it is that you see.
They can see some aspects but do not believe that playing the blame game is going to be effective or help anyone. They all work and have since they were 14 and yes, there are times they feel disillusioned. However, my oldest daughter brought up the fact that what you are complaining about has been complained about for centuries and that the argument about how the elders have spoiled the world for the younger generation is circular and pops up every 10 to 20 years.
Good debate though.
ColonelBogey: I think that it was the Thatcher/Reagan ideology and generation that really kick started the consumer boom and the buy now pay later have it all mentality that lead to our economic mess.Credit credit credit,boom and bust.
We all wanted what everyone else had instead of living by our means.It created a very selfish society.
This was coupled with a generation who went soft of discipline yet wrapped their children in cotton wool. Stay home and play computer consoles instead of going out doors and learning life lessons. Instead of learning that doing things that are wrong or harmful as a child they are not learning these life lessons until they are much older. So a youth ends up in prison for his stunts instead of learning not to do it at a much younger age.
I do think that we are responsible for a lot.
We all wanted what everyone else had instead of living by our means.It created a very selfish society.
This was coupled with a generation who went soft of discipline yet wrapped their children in cotton wool. Stay home and play computer consoles instead of going out doors and learning life lessons. Instead of learning that doing things that are wrong or harmful as a child they are not learning these life lessons until they are much older. So a youth ends up in prison for his stunts instead of learning not to do it at a much younger age.
I do think that we are responsible for a lot.
I don't know why it's so hard for some people to grasp. But I do know that I don't help myself - I should be more 'Tony Blair' with people
TrueBlue1986: I'm aware of the history of banking, boom and bust and so on. However, this is no ordinary downturn, we've shifted our position globally which hasn't happened in centuries - and even then that was placing ourselves at the top.
Besides, what of the factories? The mines? Steelworks? - many of these things we spend a fortune on importing, today - I'd say losing them was a fault.
Besides, what of the factories? The mines? Steelworks? - many of these things we spend a fortune on importing, today - I'd say losing them was a fault.
Then you will also be aware that this has been happening thruout history, to all country's. England has been shifting it's position for a thousand years, as have all other countries, it's nothing new. Power play is as old as the cavemen, one government replaces another, one ally replaces another, one technology replaces another, one trading partner replaces another etc, it's not a fault, it's natural evolution, new replaces old, it's simply how the world works and cannot be blamed on one particular generation or group.
You have your viewpoint and I have mine regarding the generation thing, and thats fine, but I think we could both agree that attending to the problem is far more important than trying to aportion blame. Young or old, we all have at some time or other bought into the system, so young and old will need to work together to find a better system, because this one doesn't work. It will take a combination of "older generation" experiance and "younger generation" fresh thinking. I sincerely hope that our, yours and future generations can find a better system because if we cant then going by the results of the past 3 centuries, when the next big recession hits in 20 odd years, it will be the Armageddon of reccessions, we'll be thrown back to trading bags of rice.
TrueBlue1986: There's more people than just you in the world, it would be ridiculous of me to say every person from your generation is lazy and undisciplined - but some, too many are, and now because of this, even more amongst my generation are this way, for the moment.
Yet it would be ridiculous to say that many from my generation are lazy and undisciplined, as you have. This is a generalized statement and I would like facts to back that up, not just your opinion. Because this generation is indeed made up of individuals, such as myself, that are quite the opposite of lazy and undisciplined. Sure, we can get a microscope and always find someone that takes advantage of others, but for the most part, I find your statement unable to hold much water. And I would also like to say, although there are exceptions to the rule, your generation is brilliant as well. I have my nieces and nephews and acquaintances across the world that lives me without a doubt that they will hopefully leave the world a better place than they found it.
The fault I find with your argument is your haste to finger point and place blame. It is impossible to judge another person, or another generation, without having first walked in his/her shoes.
Well, this old farts going to bed now, gotta unstrap my artificial leg, change my colostemy bag, put my teeth in the glass and plug myself in to the life support machine,
think on true blue, you've got all that to look forward to,
peace, love and a 25 megaton nuke to you all
think on true blue, you've got all that to look forward to,
peace, love and a 25 megaton nuke to you all
Kaybee50: Yet it would be ridiculous to say that many from my generation are lazy and undisciplined, as you have. This is a generalized statement and I would like facts to back that up, not just your opinion. Because this generation is indeed made up of individuals, such as myself, that are quite the opposite of lazy and undisciplined. Sure, we can get a microscope and always find someone that takes advantage of others, but for the most part, I find your statement unable to hold much water.
And I would also like to say, although there are exceptions to the rule, your generation is brilliant as well. I have my nieces and nephews and acquaintances across the world that lives me without a doubt that they will hopefully leave the world a better place than they found it.
The fault I find with your argument is your haste to finger point and place blame. It is impossible to judge another person, or another generation, without having first walked in his/her shoes.
And I would also like to say, although there are exceptions to the rule, your generation is brilliant as well. I have my nieces and nephews and acquaintances across the world that lives me without a doubt that they will hopefully leave the world a better place than they found it.
The fault I find with your argument is your haste to finger point and place blame. It is impossible to judge another person, or another generation, without having first walked in his/her shoes.
I know that today we consume far more than we create, I know that this began in the 1960's here and has subsequently worsened, and then ravaged our economy to where we are now - it's logical to suggest that we don't pull our weight and that this began amongst your generation.
Words like economy, generation - these are broad terms, but with the facts of today, surely I can't be that wrong? If i am, why are we being beaten by China and India whom were relatively backward when you were born?
Rockabillyrouge: Well, this old farts going to bed now, gotta unstrap my artificial leg, change my colostemy bag, put my teeth in the glass and plug myself in to the life support machine,
think on true blue, you've got all that to look forward to,
peace, love and a 25 megaton nuke to you all
think on true blue, you've got all that to look forward to,
peace, love and a 25 megaton nuke to you all
Back at ya.
Rockabillyrouge: do you ever get those moments when you feel silly,,,
Like just recently ?
TrueBlue1986: I know that today we consume far more than we create, I know that this began in the 1960's here and has subsequently worsened, and then ravaged our economy to where we are now - it's logical to suggest that we don't pull our weight and that this began amongst your generation.
Words like economy, generation - these are broad terms, but with the facts of today, surely I can't be that wrong? If i am, why are we being beaten by China and India whom were relatively backward when you were born?
Words like economy, generation - these are broad terms, but with the facts of today, surely I can't be that wrong? If i am, why are we being beaten by China and India whom were relatively backward when you were born?
the 60's appear to be mentioned a lot in your posts ... People who were old enough to make an impact on the world's economy in the 60's are aged between 70 & 80 now NOT in their 50s!!!!!
People in their 50s now are the product of the generations that brought them up in the 60s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rockabillyrouge: Then you will also be aware that this has been happening thruout history, to all country's. England has been shifting it's position for a thousand years, as have all other countries, it's nothing new. Power play is as old as the cavemen, one government replaces another, one ally replaces another, one technology replaces another, one trading partner replaces another etc, it's not a fault, it's natural evolution, new replaces old, it's simply how the world works and cannot be blamed on one particular generation or group.
You have your viewpoint and I have mine regarding the generation thing, and thats fine, but I think we could both agree that attending to the problem is far more important than trying to aportion blame. Young or old, we all have at some time or other bought into the system, so young and old will need to work together to find a better system, because this one doesn't work. It will take a combination of "older generation" experiance and "younger generation" fresh thinking. I sincerely hope that our, yours and future generations can find a better system because if we cant then going by the results of the past 3 centuries, when the next big recession hits in 20 odd years, it will be the Armageddon of reccessions, we'll be thrown back to trading bags of rice.
You have your viewpoint and I have mine regarding the generation thing, and thats fine, but I think we could both agree that attending to the problem is far more important than trying to aportion blame. Young or old, we all have at some time or other bought into the system, so young and old will need to work together to find a better system, because this one doesn't work. It will take a combination of "older generation" experiance and "younger generation" fresh thinking. I sincerely hope that our, yours and future generations can find a better system because if we cant then going by the results of the past 3 centuries, when the next big recession hits in 20 odd years, it will be the Armageddon of reccessions, we'll be thrown back to trading bags of rice.
That's true. But why should your generation be the beginning of the failure in this cycle? Should my generation have to continue to fail?
And I guess I don't hold out much hope in your generation because you've lived too long in the easy times. On the whole I don't think last century's Liberal attitudes are compatible with tough environments, and that you're way too entrenched in these attitudes. Whereas, at least the apathy of my generation is potentially pragmatic.
drbombay: Oops! was meant for Trueblue..
I think I'd gathered that
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Alright!! Cull me Baby!! woot woot!!!