Determinism/Free Will(Predestination)
If God knows everything,than His knowledge cannot change. If God is really omniscient (all knowing) then everything is predetermined and there is no free will? If God really knows everything,then He knows who's gonna be saved and who's gonna be lost. But if everything He knows is determined,then it's determined who's gonna be saved and who's gonna be lost.But if it's determined who's gonna be saved and who's gonna be lost,then we're not free? It really doesn't matter what I do(fatalism). Suppose I was one of the lost ones,no matter what I do I'm gonna be lost! Suppose I was one of the saved. no matter what I do I'm gonna be saved. If God knows everything,then the future is determined. And if it's determined then were're not free?
Now let's take a look at this and see if that consequence really follows from it.
Suppose you were standing on the top of a building,and one street was on one side,and another street on another side,and you saw a car coming from one side and another car from the other side,but neither car could see each other and you saw that they were headed for a collision.
Now you foresaw that,and you knew it was going to happen,but you didn't cause it. Your not responsible for the accident just because you knew in advance. You can calculate the speed of one and calculate the speed of the other and knew they were gonna crash! That didn't mean that your responsible for the crash. They freely choose to be driving there at that speed. both of them on their respective roads. Just because God knows the future,doesn't mean He's responsible for all the choices. It simply means that He knows,what we're freely gonna chose to do.
God knows the future,but He does not make all of those choices,that make up the future,He simply knows what we're freely gonna choose.
Or put another way,God knows everything,and knowing it means that it will come to pass. But He can't be wrong about what He knows. If God knew something was going to come to pass and it didn't,then God would be wrong. If He was wrong,then he wouldn't be all knowing. If He's all knowing then it must come to pass.
Let's apply this to Judas who betrayed Christ.
God knew Judas would betray Christ.
That's true. If God knew it,then it must come to pass,because if it doesn't come to pass,God was wrong about what He knew.
So it is also true that not only God knew Judas would betray Christ,but it was "necessary" for Judas to betray Christ. That God knew it would happen,and it did happen,and indeed it must happen,because He knew it would happen.
Now does that mean that Judas wasn't free? Not at all! It means that God knew for sure(He can't be wrong)that Judas would freely betray Christ.
God did not know that Judas would be forced to betray Christ. That would be a contradition. You can't force freedom. You can't say,"I forced you to freely do it." You can't coerce someone to chose what they don't want to do. If there forced to do it,they weren't free,if there free, their not forced to do it.
So God knew that Judas would not be forced to do it,but God knew for sure that Judas would freely do it. Therefore,God can know,and does know what people will freely choose.
Christian apologist Norman Gesiler was onced asked by a young Hindu at a university,regarding predestination. The young Hindu asked...Does God know who's gonna be saved? Yes,replied Gesiler.
The young man said...If God knows I'm not one of the people to be saved,then even if I believed I can't be saved.
Wrong! Replied Gesiler.
God knows weather your gonna believe,and God commands you to believe and if you believe, God knows that your one of the people who would believe. So believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.
You see the sword cuts both ways. If God knows who's gonna believe,and God has offered salvation to everyone then everyone will be saved and God knows that their the ones that are gonna believe...
Comments (31)
Yes,there is predestination. Yes,God knows the future for sure,He cannot be mistaken. But there's also free choice.
Jesus said...Oh Jerusalem,Jerusalem,how often I longed to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings,but you were not willing(Matthew 23:37). Free choice!
God knows who's freely going to choose,and God cannot be wrong about what He knows,but neither can He force people to choose against their freedom.
God gave them freedom,and He will respect their freedom.
God Bless everyone!
In the New Testament,God did become one of us, in the person of Jesus Christ(John 1:1-14). He has demonstrated His divine powers,through acts of God called miracles. As to your question,I need evidence that something is true before I place my faith in it(trust). For no rational person steps into an elevator,without first seeing if there's a floor.Lol.
Here's a good difintion of faith..."Faith is a whole sole trust, in the sufficency of the evidence."
God bless!
I do not read religion blogs or articles indeed, not because I am
" unbeliever " as a blogger named atheists, but because I have my religion I was grown up in and I am absolutely satified with, because it has given me all answers for all my questions. Thank You Holy Church
Otherwise your today´s blog is so awesome, clear, simple but absolutely well- written, I realised I am leaving my supportive comment to you.
Thank you Serendipity, there is nothing much to add.
my native language is stronger than English grammar ...
"If God knows"
Sir, i have of late read many of your writings, and whilst i find them very interesting, i do however find that with all you say, it really does revolve around the one small word. (But with HUGE connotations). And that is the word "IF"
I have copied your opening statement from the very opening of your blog to demonstrate.
In fact the word "IF immediately precedes the word god many many times through out all of your blogs/comments/posts.....for example, and it appears in a context where you sound as "if" you, yourself have some doubts about it all.
(If God knows everything,than His knowledge cannot change. If God is really omniscient (all knowing) then everything is predetermined and there is no free will? If God really knows everything,then He knows who's gonna be saved and who's gonna be lost. But if everything He knows is determined,then it's determined who's gonna be saved and who's gonna be lost.)
I am not going to point out exactly how many times you write "IF GOD"........but you must now be aware of what i am leading to.
Whilst i do share a belief that a greater power than us humans is responsible for the creation of our being, i do not necessarily believe all that is written in the bible.
I would suggest that deep deep down in your soul/body that you also have doubts about the reality of the bible, otherwise you wouldn't be using the "IF GOD" comments as much as you do.
Of course you are free to write and believe what you choose to as are we all.
But Sir, i do have a problem when you are trying to substantiate something, yet continue to use the words "IF GOD"
"If" you are trying to sell God the lord Christ and his religion, then why does it appear in your very articulate and well written blogs that you have doubts about his ability and existence itself?
I should have added,
At least you have the courage of your (doubtful) conviction to allow comments, unlike others that use the blogs to continually bash people about how we should and shouldn't be seeing religion.
Thank you.
Well God is not according your temptation nor according your questions and thinking and answering...!
God do not see the future like you see!And God do not imagine or think like you do!
And free will is not so as you think!
You are thinking too much and the more you do so,the less you have rest!
stop thinking much and stop seeking much,leave space for you to rest and have peace or you become restless!
GOD is GOD,you are human!
God is almighty,alwise,alpresent,God is love and God is good!
there is not hell forever as you christians (protestants)think is!
but hell is for a limitful time!
heaven is forever and not hell!
so is you and is man who make able salvation or condemnation!
simply believe and obey at least two greatest commandment of the law, and you shall live and not lost!
you shall be saved!
be simple as child to enter the kingdom!
We can choose with our free will but this just may be predermined by the opportunities available. Natural law works to put all the experiences you need into your life. It is what you do with them that expresses your free will.
Does not depend on the person, who wants or the one that runs / talks /, but of God.
Virgo: Who's a trouble maker?
Saggi66: I appreciate your kind comments! Thanks for stopping by!
Simmo: Thanks for stopping by. By using the word "if",I am using a hypothetical-"if this,than that" kind of argument for an all knowing God. For if you read my whole blog in "context",then you would see that I am arguing in favor of God being all knowing. For that is how I concluded it...God "knows" who's freely going to choose,and God cannot be wrong about what He knows,but neither can He force people to choose against their freedom.
And of course I mentioned through out my blog,that God does "know" what we will freely do(all knowing). This phrase was repeated,for emphasis.
I was trying to show that there is no contradiction in the fact, that God knowingly determined and determinately knew from all eternity, precisely, what we would do with our free acts.
I believe that the Bible is the Word of God. I do not doubt this. In fact,as a Christian I agree with what Aquinas said..."Opinion includes a fear that the other part(of the contradiction) is true. However,this fear that the opposite may be true does not apply to matters of faith. For faith brings with it greater certitude than what can be known by reason(On Truth, 14.9, ad 6.)
I pray you would know this truth one day,in a personal way.
God bless you,Simmo!
Have a good day! God bless!
Mia: Happy to see you. Thanks for the scripture you shared. For it simply demonstrates that God is Sovereign over all things(including our free choices). Since God is in control of all things,who can question Him?
God Bless!
Good night and blessed days to the end.
God (Holy Spirit) never bypasses the mind on the way to the heart. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your MIND. This is the greatest commandmentMatt.22:37-38).
In other words,we are to love God with everything we have...Mind,heart and soul. One cannot do this,apart from the Spirit Of God,in allowing Him to fill you and empower you,in doing God's will.
it is wrong about everlasting hell!
hell is not eternal!God is eternal!
you see :christians (protestant)are so wrong that they made hell to be eternal as God is eternal!
it is wrong translated and interpreted in bible about hell to be eternal!
so it has contradicted in bible: about hell!when jesus said:
i came to save the world,and john baptist also said:lamb who take away sins of the world!
bible is so much contradiction!
Jesus came to save all siners ,not only believers but all !
so you see? is contradicted about hell!
hope you will understand later!
Than He works to become aware in your mind /renewal of the mind/ His Words / wisdom with.
Only than you can love God and others His Love with all your soul, mind, heart. Only filled and improved via fulfilling His Love/Spirit with.
We pray : to be your will, not mine..., so we follow Him via our spirit. We contact with God / He is Spirit/ through our spirit. Teaching brain to brain does not gives awareness / understanding / God s wisdom.
It s a big lie,not all human will be saved after Adam till now. There is eternal gulf between heaven and hell. Sorry, do you know your predestination? Who assures you to know it ? The Holy Spirit.
you believe such most evil from christians in bible about hell to be eternal!
How is so evil,those people who go in hell must have no hope to be saved if hell is eternal!
So then Jesus has not brought salvation to every one,if hell is eternal!Jesus then has die for nothing!Is no salvation then if hell is eternal!why then bible said that jesus has brought salvation for all siners,:john baptist said:lamb(jesus) who take away sins of the world,it didn,t said only believers but of all the world!!!
so you see this contradiction so much is in bible!
How God can be love if hell is eternal,is impossible!
do you know :THAT ETERNAL MEAN:FOREVER!
HELL HAVE ITS BEGINING AND ITS END,BUT GOD WHO IS ETERNAL HAVE NO BEGINING AND NO END!
IN THE BEGINING OF CREATION:WAS NO HELL,ALL ANGELS AND THINGS WERE GOOD AND NO SIN AND NO EVIL,WAS NO DEVIL,ALL WAS GOOD!
SO LATER THAT ANGEL WHO SINED BECAME EVIL-DEVIL!
AND SO WAS NO HELL BUT THEN START TO BE HELL!
SO YOU SEE,HELL WAS NOT ETERNAL,BUT HAVE ITS BEGINING AND HAVE ITS END ALSO!
ETERNAL LIFE WAS BEFORE HELL EXISTED!
SO IS IT CLEAR NOW TO YOU,OR YOU BELIEVE BLINDLY THAT MOST EVIL OF CHRISTIANS THAT HELL TO BE ETERNAL?
I SAY TO YOU THE TRUTH:THAT THOSE WHO GO IN HELL WILL BE SAVED MORE QUICK THAN THOSE CHRISTIANS WHO BELIEVE AND NOT OBEY THE LAW,PROTESTANTS AND OTHERS WHO DO SO!
THESE CHRISTIANS FOR SURE WILL GO TO HELL!
NOW I MADE CLEAR!
Do you believe the soul is immortal(lives forever)? If the soul had a beginning(created)and the soul lives forever,then it is reasonable to conclude that hell exists forever,since God cannot force free creatures to love Him against their will. For God loves us so much,that He will respect your freedom forever.
If the soul had a beginning and lives forever,then it's not impossible, that hell has a beginnning and exists forever.
As to Christ dying for the whole world...He(Jesus)is our atoning sacrifice for our sins,and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world(1 John 2:2).
Yes,Christ died for the sins of the whole world,but the Atonement is limited in it's application(only the elect),but it is unlimited in it's extent(the whole world).
To all who receive him(Christ),to those who believe in his name,he gave the right to become children of God(John 1:12).
God bless!
you are wrong!you close door for heaven for yourself and also others let not to go in heaven with your wrong teaching of pharisee!
if jesus has die for all siners:he will save all siners!!!
there is no difference from salvation and atonement,both mean to forgive and be saved!
so hell will end and be no more.hell is not forever!
soul-spirit is made eternal,but now when is sinful is timely,till become free from sin and eternal again!
so God is not such most evil as christians did say that hell is eternal!!!God can,t be love and hate eternally!But God is love and so hell is timely and not forever!
so those who go in hell:shall be saved when their sin will be remitted.hell is not eternal destiny!
they have hope to be saved same as we do here and shall be repented and improved:same as man do in this life:repent and improve to be saved!
Hell is not a city or a place to go in!
Hell is in you and in every man who have sin!
and from hell comes bad words or deeds that man do !
so i say:Jesus has got victory against hell to end it!
so these people who go in hell shall be saved same as we who get saved:by repenting and improving!they have free will not to go in hell but to be saved as we do so choosing!they don,t choose hell!
they are your brothers and sisters,God loves them and will save them!
so soul spirit is eternal,but when is sin remitted,becomes perfect soul-spirit and body.
and so it said in bible:jesus went in hell to save those of time of flood of noah time,so you see? that jesus died for all siners to save ,also for those in hell, will be saved!!!
Sorry for the delay, my previous profile was deleted so I couldn t comment earlier. Thank you so much for discussing this question which I asked you in our previous conversation. It was very interesting to me to read your opinion and of course, you didn t disappoint me regarding the depth and clarity of your points. It s one of the toughest topics for philosophers and theologists and although it seems to be far from our everyday life, it s actually a crucial one. A crucial one for our choices and responsibility for our actions, a crucial one for our planning of the future, a crucial one for our self-awareness and self-esteem. These who fear of life and the future, aren t able to enjoy their present.
Thank you for your thoughts and explanations!
It has been said that on the outside of the door of heaven it reads,"Whoever will may enter," while on the inside is written,"I have chosen you." According to Scripture both are true.
Thanks for your encouraging comments,and God bless you,Jana!
since you abolish the law..etc...!
jesus has not said:never forgiven,but to you pharisees who hell awaits you,you are against holy spirit and against light and power of Jesus!!!
so such sin against holy spirit shall not be forgiven in that age of jesus and in the age to come,not forever!!!
so all sin will be forgiven even against holy spirit will be forgiven! so again you are wrong and sticked in most evil who made the hell :eternal and so this is most evil and most sin!
God bless!