The fact that God does not have foreknowledge, but "sees" what we are doing with our freedom, is a valid point to be made. For if God had any succession in His Being, then God would not be an eternal, timeless, unchanging, Being, that He is. In other words, He wouldn't be God.
Thanks for your kind words, regarding my blog. It's great to hear that God has opened up your understanding of the parable, in a new and refreshing way. May God continue to bless you, as you grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.
It is always humbling to read this passage, concerning the Call of Wisdom. For the fear of the Lord is the beginning of understanding this great wisdom, in which we are truly blessed to know.
For it is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold. She (wisdom) is more precious than rubies; nothing you desire can compare with her (Pro. 3:14:15).
Thanks for sharing this great blog!
God bless!
Ian
In regards, to freeing one's mind...
Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable- if anything is excellent or praiseworthy- think on these things (Philippians 4:8).
The disciples begun to fidget. They didn't quite understand what Jesus meant. "So to say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
If the grumpy neighbor offers you aid as a result of your persistence- if only to keep you from continuing to bother him- how much more will your heavenly Father, who is righteous and loving, come to your aid when you ask."
Some of His disciples were beginning to catch the meaning of the parable. Peter couldn't help himself. "I get it!" he shouted, his voice echoing through the canyon. "You're contrasting my grumpy neighbor with God." James, John and the rest of the disciples now caught the full force of the meaning as well. Jesus was not comparing Peter's neighbor to God. He was contrasting the neighbor's grumpiness and resistance with God's goodness and readiness to help.
Jesus had just offered His disciples what as known as a lesser-to-greater argument for trusting God in prayer. If the lesser individual, the grumpy neighbor, was in the end willing to help a hungry man, even for a less than noble reason, how much more will our gracious heavenly Father respond when we humbly come before Him and ask for our daily bread?
Jesus did not want to leave His disciples wondering whether or not they have properly perceived the point of His parable. So He continues, "Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"
Jesus intensified the force of His story by moving from a relationship between neighbors to a relationship between a father and his child. And the message is beginning to resonate with His disciples. They have been conditioned to think that God was unapproachable; so if they did ask him for anything, they had better make it snappy. Jesus, however, tells them that God cares for them as a father cares for his own children. When we ask for such essentials as our daily bread, our heavenly Father will not turn His relationship with us into an illusion by giving us something harmful, such as a scorpion or a snake. Jesus puts the exclamation point on the parable by drawing the attention of His disciples to the greatest gift of all-the gift of the precious Holy Spirit. In other words, Jesus was promising that we can trust God to feed more than our bodies. But He will also feed our souls. When God gives us the Holy Spirit, He is giving...everything!
As the Holy Spirit is an all-encompassion gift, so too we are reminded that petitioning our heavenly Father to "give us today our daily bread" encompasses far more than food. As the great 6th century Martin Chemnize once put it, "The word 'bread' in this petition encompasses all things belonging to and necessary for the sustenance of this body and life." Chemitz goes on to underscore the fact that biblically the word "bread" in the context of the prayer of Jesus, can be rightly understood in a larger sense as "all those things that are required for the necessary, peaceable, and honest ordering of this life. This applies to the nation, the family, the productivity of the ground, profitable weather, and so on." Note carefully the word "necessary." God promises to provide "the necessities, but not always the niceties." And we should want it no other way.
With Agur, we should pray, "Give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread. Otherwise, I may have too much and disown you and say, 'Who is the Lord?' Or I may become poor and steal, and so dishonor the name of my God" (Pro. 30:8-9).
"You said..."God does not base His foreknowledge on what we will do or will not do." Arminianism holds to this view on predestination. I don't
In terms of salvation, I believe that we are elect according to the foreknowledge of God (1 Peter 1:2). However, notice that Peter did not say elect based on the foreknowledge of God. Election is "based on" God's Sovereign Choice. But God's sovereign choices are not in total ignorance of His omniscience.
For God determinately knew and knowingly determined from eternity who would believe and who wouldn't. His election is "not" based on free will (Jn. 1:13), it's in accordance with foreknowledge, not based on foreknowledge. Election is based on God's sovereign will and His choice. Not on his foreknowledge of what we will choose.
God knew that Judas would betray Christ....For whatever God knows must come to pass (determined). Therefore, it must come to pass that Judas would "freely" betray Christ. Noticed I said freely.
It is determined from the standpoint of God's omniscience. Free from the standpoint of what we will freely choose (self-determined act = man's responsibility).
You said...."Also, to quote this blog, regarding Jesus knowing Judas would betray Him; Jesus knew what Judas do before he did it. So he had foreknowledge of the event."
In response...Yes, speaking from the perspective of His humanity, Jesus could foreknow, in the sense, of knowing what Judas would do before he did it. However, from the perspective of His deity (as God), all moments in time are eternally present to Him.
From the standpoint, of a "timeless Being," there are no moments of before or after," in terms, of seeing time from one moment to the next, in a successive way (i.e. in knowing what Judas would do "before" he did it), since, "He sees" and "knows," all moments in time in one eternal Now.
Hope this makes some kind of sense, in understanding the attributes of our awesome God.
As to your question, in relation, to what pjatheart has said concerning Judas not being free (the devil made me do it), this was my response to him earlier on your blog....
It is noteworthy that it says the devil "prompted," not forced, Judas to betray Christ (John 13:2). The act of Judas was free and uncoerced. This is evident from the use of the word "betray" (Matt. 26:16, 21, 23), for betrayal is a deliberate act (Luke 6:16). And though the devil had put the idea into his heart (John 13:2), Judas performed the act freely, admitting later that he had "sinned" (Matthew 27:4).
Just slightly rewording what I have said, to simplify what I am communicating, in terms, of what I believe...
"I believe that it's true, that an event is determined, in the sense that, God (with omniscience) knew that it would happen (i.e. Judas would betray Christ), but false, in the sense that, Judas was not free. For the God who sovereignly gave us free will (Gen. 2:16), knows how we will freely exercise it (Acts 2:23; Jn. 10:17-18)."
No, the premises you have stated are not opposite, for both premises affirm God's omniscience. In mentioning opposites, I was demonstrating that there is no contradiction in God's determination and free will. I believe that an event is determined, in the sense that, God (with omniscience) knew that it would happen (i.e. Judas would betray Christ), but false, in the sense that, Judas was not free. For the God who sovereignly gave us free will (Gen. 2:16), knows how we will freely exercise it (Acts 2:23; Jn. 10:17-18).
I agree, that...
Point 1. God knows everything.
Point 2. And God knew that Judas would betray Christ.
Point 3. Therefore, Judas "must" betray Christ.
I believe this to be absolutely true. That the conclusion follows from those premises. Because if Judas didn't betray Christ then God would have been wrong in what He knew. But if your all-knowing then you cannot be wrong in what you know.
Now point 4. is where we disagree concerning predestination...Therefore, Judas is not free.
For God knew for sure, that Judas would freely betray Christ. God knew for sure, that it would be done freely. So Judas is responsible for his free act (Mark 14: 18-21; John 19:11; Matt. 27:4), But God is absolutely certain about what Judas is going to do with his free act (betray Christ).
It is true that determinism and free will are direct opposites. No one is debating that. Lol.
However, the law of non-contradiction states, that opposites cannot both be true at the same time and in the same sense. You seem to bypass that last phrase, when asserting that determinism and free will are necessarily contradictory.
As I have mentioned before, when quoting Aquinas...
A future free act is determined from the relation of God's infallible foreknowledge and yet also free when viewed from the relationship of our free choice (in the sense of the power to do otherwise). Thus, infallible knowledge and free choice are not contradictory, for the law of non-contradiction demands that to be contradictory, two propositions must affirm and deny the same thing in the same sense and in the same relationship.
However, in this case, one and the same event is determined in one relationship, but not determined in a different relationship- one "in relationship to God's knowledge," and the other "in relation to our free choice."
God bless!
Hello, Calmheartseeks.
Yes, that's a great book in helping us to see predestination from a balanced perspective, since the Bible teaches both God's sovereignty (Isa. 14:24-27; 46:9-11) and human free will (Gen. 2:16; Jn. 1:12-13).
Btw, God determinately knew and knowingly determined that you and I would freely choose to comment on this blog, though we both knew, that there were many blogs to choose from.
It is noteworthy that it says the devil "prompted," not forced, Judas to betray Christ (John 13:2). The act of Judas was free and uncoerced. This is evident from the use of the word "betray" (Matt. 26:16, 21, 23), for betrayal is a deliberate act (Luke 6:16). And though the devil had put the idea into his heart (John 13:2), Judas performed the act freely, admitting later that he had "sinned" (27:4).
God bless!
Hi, Ken
Because the testing of our faith produces patience. And patience has it's perfect work in us, so that we may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing (James 1:4).
Testing "reveals to us" where we are in terms of our faith as "God already knows" whether or not we will pass a given test. It is through the fire of testing and trail that we can be strengthened, sanctified, and purified (in other words, be made holy).
Not only did God know in advance (with omniscience), that there would be chariots of iron, but He also used this occasion (in which He foreknew, and preplanned), to permit enemies to hold out as a test to display whether His people would obey Him. For they have been promised by Joshua that they could conquer the land (Josh. 1:6-9), had they willingly "trusted" (by faith), in God's unlimited power (omnipotence). Indeed, it was a failure in their part to rise to full trust and obedience for victory by God's power (Deut. 7:22).
God's Word says..."When you go out to war against your enemies and see horses and chariots and an army greater than yours, do not be afraid of them, because the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, will be with you (Deut. 20:1)."
The Bible(KJV), in Hebrews 11:1 states: “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”
This text you quote from does not exclude "evidence" as you may be suggesting, but actually implies it. For faith is said to be "the evidence" of things we do not see (Heb. 11:1). For example, the evidence that someone is a reliable witness justifies my believing his testimony of what he saw and I did not. Even so, our faith in "things not seen" (Heb. 11:1 NKJV) is justified by the evidence we have that God does exist which is "clearly seen, being understood from what has been made" (Rom. 1:20).
Secondly, God in fact calls upon us to use our reason (1 Pet. 3:15). Indeed, He has given "clear" (Rom. 1:20) and "convincing proofs" (Acts 1:3) so that we do not have to exercise blind faith.
Your words: Premise 1: God is omniscient and infallible.
(i.e., God knows everything - past, present, future, and he can never be wrong).
Premise 2: Jesus (God) knew beforehand that Judas would betray him.
(as stated in the Bible)
Conclusion: Therefore, Judas could not avoid betraying Jesus.
(God can never be wrong, and what God knows beforehand must come to pass so it is inevitable and cannot be avoided).
Based on the principle of deductive logic, applied to the premises stated above,
Judas could not have avoided betraying Jesus.
As to your conclusion, based on your deductive reasoning from these premises, you are in fact, setting up a "Faulty Dilemma Fallacy," in your argument.
Since you are forcing one into a either/or answer when the question has a third alternative.
Determinism and free will are not necessarily contradictory, for it is possible that both are true. For there's nothing contradictory in affirming that, "God determined that a choice will be freely made." In other words, it is possible for God to use free will as a means to do what has been determined. This does not inhibit freedom either experientially (because the person does not know what choice is determined and feels that the choice is his) or really (because there is no coercion or force involved).
And as I mentioned before on your previous blog...
One of the most powerful indications that the Bible sees no contradiction between God's predetermination and human free choice is found in Acts 2:23. On the one hand, it declares that Jesus death was determined "by God's set purpose and foreknowledge." Yet even though it was set and determined from eternity that Jesus would die, nonetheless, Jesus says He did it freely: "I lay down my life- only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord" (Jn. 10:17).
Nothing could be clearer. God determined it from eternity, and yet Jesus did it freely. And if it can be true of Jesus' free choices, then there is no contradiction in asserting that our free actions are both determined and free. As far as the Bible is concerned, there is no contradiction between divine predetermination and human free choice.
What is your response to God's predetermination (Acts 2:23), in view, of Jesus free choice, to die for our sins on the cross (John 10:17)?
To have free will, one must be free to do how one chooses. Judas was not free to avoid betraying Jesus. If he did not betray Jesus, then it would mean that God was mistaken. But God is infallible and can never be mistaken. Therefore, in the context of God's infallibility, Judas did not have free will in the matter.
I humbly disagree with the premise, that Judas was not free to betray Christ.
Since it is not contradictory to affirm that, God knows for sure (with infallible knowledge), how we will use our freedom. Consider the following:
God knows all things
Whatever God foreknows must come to pass (i.e. is determined). If it did not come to pass, then God would have been wrong in what He foreknew. But an all-knowing Being cannot be wrong in what He knows.
God knew Judas would betray Christ.
Therefore, it had to come to pass (i.e., was determined) that Judas would betray Christ.
If God has infallible knowledge of future free acts, then the future is completely determined. But what does not follow from this is that...Judas was not free to betray (or not to betray ) Christ.
This is because there is no contradiction in claiming that God knew for sure (i.e. determined) that Judas would freely (i.e. with free choice) betray Christ.
What is contradictory to affirm and the Bible never affirms it, is the following statement: Judas was coerced to betray Christ freely.
One and the same act cannot be both forced and free at the same time and in the same sense. For coerced acts are not free acts, as it is clear from both the Bible and good reason. The Bible uses terms like "no constraint" and authority over own will" (Cor.7:37) or "not under compulsion" but "voluntarily" (1 Peter 5:2; 1 Cor. 9:17).
Finally, although Jesus is our greatest example, He is certainly not our only example. His brother James warns those who are prone to "boast and brag" that they ought to pray instead, "If it is the Lord's will, we will live and do this or that" (Jam. 4:15). Christ closest friend during His earthly ministry, the apostle John, echos the words of the Master when he writes, "This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to His will, he hears us" (1 Jn. 5:14).
Next time you end your prayer time with the word "amen" it is my prayer that you focus on the fact that far from being a formality, it is fraught with meaning. Not only is "amen" a direct reference to the Savior, but is a reminder that even the seemingly insignificant details of our lives are under the Savior's sovereign control.
The Prayer of Jesus: Hank Hanegraaff
God's love and blessing to everyone at CS! Serendipity
Yes, I agree. For an all-knowing, all-good, and all powerful God, can permit evil (in allowing the full exercise of freedom), as a precondition, for a greater good, in accomplishing His sovereign plan.
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The Prayer of Jesus (part 6)
AngelpepperThanks for reading my blog.
God bless!
Gentlejim
Indeed, it is always encouraging to be reminded that we can find refuge in God, who is our sovereign Protector.
God bless, my brother!
Dewiqueen
Thanks for your kind words, and the thumbs up.
God bless!