The missing link ( Archived) (268)

Apr 6, 2010 2:04 PM CST The missing link
wonderworker
wonderworkerwonderworkercosby, Tennessee USA201 Threads 2 Polls 1,883 Posts
bollywood: No random mutation can get you thing that work . Its like you are jumbling a meaningful sentence in radom way to get another more meaningful sentence . Mutation happens , what trigger the mutation is still a mystry . there is some intellignece which forsee the enviromental change and prepare an organism to cope up with that change make it more adaptive through mutation . Mutation is arranged and intellignet driven and I wish to call that Intelligence" the God" . I am not confused here with the biblical version of the god .


No mystery.
Mutation is caused by radiation,generally solar.
Darwin could not know this so he relied on the pricipal of "normal variation" with no causitive theory.
cool
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Apr 6, 2010 2:31 PM CST The missing link
theoldestdear
theoldestdeartheoldestdearReading, Berkshire, England UK2 Threads 507 Posts
wonderworker: That's what I said.
Ontological argument equates existence itself with God.Not an inference, a suspect equating.A spurious proof.
Read what I said.Then you wont need to use my own point to refute me.



If we include existence in the definition of something, then asserting that it exists is a tautology. If we say that existence is part of the definition of God, in other words an analytic judgment, then we are simply repeating ourselves in asserting that God exists. We are not making a synthetic judgment that would add new information about the real existence of God to the purely conceptual definition of God.
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Apr 6, 2010 2:40 PM CST The missing link
wonderworker
wonderworkerwonderworkercosby, Tennessee USA201 Threads 2 Polls 1,883 Posts
theoldestdear: If we include existence in the definition of something, then asserting that it exists is a tautology. If we say that existence is part of the definition of God, in other words an analytic judgment, then we are simply repeating ourselves in asserting that God exists. We are not making a synthetic judgment that would add new information about the real existence of God to the purely conceptual definition of God.

For Christ's sake people READ.
The ontological argument asserts that the existence of anything at all is the only "proof" of God thereby making existence itself equivalent to God.
Yes,a tautology and a non-sequitur to boot.
I'm not selling anything.

cool
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Apr 6, 2010 2:48 PM CST The missing link
theoldestdear
theoldestdeartheoldestdearReading, Berkshire, England UK2 Threads 507 Posts
i know just helping to clarify
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Apr 6, 2010 3:07 PM CST The missing link
groovyme
groovymegroovymeToronto, Ontario Canada64 Posts
wonderworker: For Christ's sake people READ.
The ontological argument asserts that the existence of anything at all is the only "proof" of God thereby making existence itself equivalent to God.
Yes,a tautology and a non-sequitur to boot.
I'm not selling anything.


I only got that after reading more of your posts. :)

Sorry
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Apr 6, 2010 3:08 PM CST The missing link
groovyme
groovymegroovymeToronto, Ontario Canada64 Posts
wonderworker: That's what I said.
Ontological argument equates existence itself with God.Not an inference, a suspect equating.A spurious proof.
Read what I said.Then you wont need to use my own point to refute me.


yea, sorry. I didn't get that until I read your other posts.
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Apr 7, 2010 9:52 AM CST The missing link
bollywood
bollywoodbollywoodTRIVANDRUM, Kerala India53 Threads 2 Polls 973 Posts
groovyme: ALL mutations are random.

Evolution is NOT directed or decided by DNA. It is a societal shift towards speciation, not an individual one.

As far as beneficial effect of something like sickle cell anemia goes, it doesn't have to be beneficial to be passed on in the allele. All it has to do is not be harmful to the chances of passing on the allele to the next generation.

If it kept people from producing progeny, then it might be evolved out of existence. Or be much more rare.

Get it?


Evolution is a design with purpose There is an Intelligence embedded in the Nature, Random evolutionist problem is that they cannot accept the embedded intelligence in the Nature and cannot accept the whole system as super organism .Nature is perpetually evolving with the living and for the non living .All natural phenomena are governed by physical laws and not in a random manner . For example Climate keep changing then the life adapts to the new climate by sensing the changed climate . Mutations are trigged to effect the adaption. If you scientifically examine the history of evolution in coordination with the climatic changes from Pre-Cambrian era , this point is very evident . Natural selection so nifty is that it kills off unsuccessful designs because they don't succeed and conversely, allows good designs to survive because they do succeed. Guided by this process, nature keeps itself thriving and healthy. As new conditions develop, flora and fauna are adjusted, and visa versa, in an intricate dance, the result of which is truly marvelous to behold. Evolutionists mistake the wizardry of science for having something to do with spiritual matters. Anyone who truly investigates the mystery of the DNA molecule -- this incredible micro, digital, error-correcting, redundant, self duplicating, information storage and retrieval system, with its own inherent language convention, that has the potential to develop any organism from raw biological material -- understands that life is the result of Intelligent Design. In light of recent discoveries such as the DNA molecule, the absurdity of the evolution argument is readily apparent when its basic formula is compared with that of the creation model of origins. Intelligent Evolution states that matter + energy + information = incredibly complex life.Random Evolution states that matter + energy + random chance = incredibly complex life. The theory of random evolution is merely a religion that serves to discredit intelligence than proving the randomness . I am sure if Darwin was aware of the DNA factor ,he would not have proposed the Theory of evolution and natural selection . Even then we have the natural selection happening in theory of evolution the “selection “ needs intelligence and Intelligence need exchange information with its immediate surrounding and processing that to suggest the modifications as you call mutation to be more adaptive to the environment . There are many examples in nature where different ,physically incommunicable organisms works in synergy .That is just not random , how do a mango tree knows the taste of sweetness where it has no taste sensing mechanism but produce sweet mangoes which will be taken away by the animals for propagation of the species . How on earth It can imagine the tastes and liking of an animal? Why is it still produces Mangoes which is sweet ?.Plants have no eyes but flowers are eye catching for the insects to promote pollination . Plants have no sense to understand a butterfly’s affinity to colors and sweet taste of its nectar Who decides these things ? Random evolutionist are trying to mix oil and water. Whether or not God created the universe, and whether or not he has the time to worry about helping some tiny arthropod get through the Cretaceous period, is all together a different subject.
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Apr 7, 2010 9:52 AM CST The missing link
bollywood
bollywoodbollywoodTRIVANDRUM, Kerala India53 Threads 2 Polls 973 Posts
contd

Human beings have somehow developed the ability to unravel the mysteries of the natural world: DNA, the evolution of species, the Big Bang, quantum physics .Who created the physical rules allowing for and governing the phenomenon of an explosion? What's the purpose of all this? Fundamental questions about the reasons for the universe and its characteristics, or the very purpose of existence, continue to elude us. But each new scientific breakthrough has brought better understanding of the universe and our place in it. Each new understanding has replaced mystery and untruth with tangible truths.
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Apr 7, 2010 10:04 AM CST The missing link
Boban1
Boban1Boban1bigplace, Central Serbia Serbia144 Threads 5 Polls 18,789 Posts
bollywood: Evolution is a design with purpose There is an Intelligence embedded in the Nature, Random evolutionist problem is that they cannot accept the embedded intelligence in the Nature and cannot accept the whole system as super organism .Nature is perpetually evolving with the living and for the non living .All natural phenomena are governed by physical laws and not in a random manner . For example Climate keep changing then the life adapts to the new climate by sensing the changed climate . Mutations are trigged to effect the adaption. If you scientifically examine the history of evolution in coordination with the climatic changes from Pre-Cambrian era , this point is very evident . Natural selection so nifty is that it kills off unsuccessful designs because they don't succeed and conversely, allows good designs to survive because they do succeed. Guided by this process, nature keeps itself thriving and healthy. As new conditions develop, flora and fauna are adjusted, and visa versa, in an intricate dance, the result of which is truly marvelous to behold. Evolutionists mistake the wizardry of science for having something to do with spiritual matters. Anyone who truly investigates the mystery of the DNA molecule -- this incredible micro, digital, error-correcting, redundant, self duplicating, information storage and retrieval system, with its own inherent language convention, that has the potential to develop any organism from raw biological material -- understands that life is the result of Intelligent Design. In light of recent discoveries such as the DNA molecule, the absurdity of the evolution argument is readily apparent when its basic formula is compared with that of the creation model of origins. Intelligent Evolution states that matter + energy + information = incredibly complex life.Random Evolution states that matter + energy + random chance = incredibly complex life. The theory of random evolution is merely a religion that serves to discredit intelligence than proving the randomness . I am sure if Darwin was aware of the DNA factor ,he would not have proposed the Theory of evolution and natural selection . Even then we have the natural selection happening in theory of evolution the “selection “ needs intelligence and Intelligence need exchange information with its immediate surrounding and processing that to suggest the modifications as you call mutation to be more adaptive to the environment . There are many examples in nature where different ,physically incommunicable organisms works in synergy .That is just not random , how do a mango tree knows the taste of sweetness where it has no taste sensing mechanism but produce sweet mangoes which will be taken away by the animals for propagation of the species . How on earth It can imagine the tastes and liking of an animal? Why is it still produces Mangoes which is sweet ?.Plants have no eyes but flowers are eye catching for the insects to promote pollination . Plants have no sense to understand a butterfly’s affinity to colors and sweet taste of its nectar Who decides these things ? Random evolutionist are trying to mix oil and water. Whether or not God created the universe, and whether or not he has the time to worry about helping some tiny arthropod get through the Cretaceous period, is all together a different subject.



Thank you.... at last some one who can see thumbs up
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Apr 7, 2010 12:22 PM CST The missing link
I3estman4u
I3estman4uI3estman4uEdmonton, Alberta Canada1 Threads 568 Posts
elsson: Seems that the missing link has been found in South Africa but I do not know anymore about it, can anyone enlighten me. Or if proved will the christian fundamentalists back off about their anti Darwin stance ?


rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing
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Apr 7, 2010 12:23 PM CST The missing link
I3estman4u
I3estman4uI3estman4uEdmonton, Alberta Canada1 Threads 568 Posts
This is such an obvious lure for an argument. LAME!barf
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Apr 7, 2010 1:48 PM CST The missing link
theoldestdear
theoldestdeartheoldestdearReading, Berkshire, England UK2 Threads 507 Posts
bollywood: Evolution is a design with purpose There is an Intelligence embedded in the Nature, Random evolutionist problem is that they cannot accept the embedded intelligence in the Nature and cannot accept the whole system as super organism .Nature is perpetually evolving with the living and for the non living .All natural phenomena are governed by physical laws and not in a random manner . For example Climate keep changing then the life adapts to the new climate by sensing the changed climate . Mutations are trigged to effect the adaption. If you scientifically examine the history of evolution in coordination with the climatic changes from Pre-Cambrian era , this point is very evident . Natural selection so nifty is that it kills off unsuccessful designs because they don't succeed and conversely, allows good designs to survive because they do succeed. Guided by this process, nature keeps itself thriving and healthy. As new conditions develop, flora and fauna are adjusted, and visa versa, in an intricate dance, the result of which is truly marvelous to behold. Evolutionists mistake the wizardry of science for having something to do with spiritual matters. Anyone who truly investigates the mystery of the DNA molecule -- this incredible micro, digital, error-correcting, redundant, self duplicating, information storage and retrieval system, with its own inherent language convention, that has the potential to develop any organism from raw biological material -- understands that life is the result of Intelligent Design. In light of recent discoveries such as the DNA molecule, the absurdity of the evolution argument is readily apparent when its basic formula is compared with that of the creation model of origins. Intelligent Evolution states that matter + energy + information = incredibly complex life.Random Evolution states that matter + energy + random chance = incredibly complex life. The theory of random evolution is merely a religion that serves to discredit intelligence than proving the randomness . I am sure if Darwin was aware of the DNA factor ,he would not have proposed the Theory of evolution and natural selection . Even then we have the natural selection happening in theory of evolution the “selection “ needs intelligence and Intelligence need exchange information with its immediate surrounding and processing that to suggest the modifications as you call mutation to be more adaptive to the environment . There are many examples in nature where different ,physically incommunicable organisms works in synergy .That is just not random , how do a mango tree knows the taste of sweetness where it has no taste sensing mechanism but produce sweet mangoes which will be taken away by the animals for propagation of the species . How on earth It can imagine the tastes and liking of an animal? Why is it still produces Mangoes which is sweet ?.Plants have no eyes but flowers are eye catching for the insects to promote pollination . Plants have no sense to understand a butterfly’s affinity to colors and sweet taste of its nectar Who decides these things ? Random evolutionist are trying to mix oil and water. Whether or not God created the universe, and whether or not he has the time to worry about helping some tiny arthropod get through the Cretaceous period, is all together a different subject.



Are you really serious about all this?

Mutations are RANDOM and there is no design or intelligence behind them.
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Apr 7, 2010 8:59 PM CST The missing link
bollywood
bollywoodbollywoodTRIVANDRUM, Kerala India53 Threads 2 Polls 973 Posts
theoldestdear: Are you really serious about all this?

Mutations are RANDOM and there is no design or intelligence behind them.


There are random Mutations and one with definite purpose. Random mutations results in genetic disease and cancerous states. While genetic rearrangement will lead to evolution. No randomness can yield an exact result which is required for the very survival
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Apr 7, 2010 9:03 PM CST The missing link
bollywood
bollywoodbollywoodTRIVANDRUM, Kerala India53 Threads 2 Polls 973 Posts
Boban1: Thank you.... at last some one who can see


I would not be surprised to hear tomorrow is some one propogate a theory that . Windows evolved randomly from DOS. Vista Evolved randomly from Windows . Linux evolved from Unix randomly to accomodate the change in cumputing climate . No codes and language can yeald to be meaningful without a purpusfull intelligent change made into that .
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Apr 7, 2010 9:04 PM CST The missing link
BillyFatwas: Sorry Felixis. Have to pull you up on that one.

The frog is an amphibian i.e. They have gills when born and develop lungs as they metamorphose into an adult.

Larva is the second stage in the life of an insect. (Egg-Larva-Pupa-Adult)
it is also the same for an amphibiian
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Apr 7, 2010 9:04 PM CST The missing link
elsson
elssonelssonLondon, Greater London, England UK24 Threads 1,864 Posts
I3estman4u: This is such an obvious lure for an argument. LAME!


It was a legitimate OP based on stimulating debate and conversation and I think it resulted in attaining its objective.
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Apr 7, 2010 9:05 PM CST The missing link
katt1017
katt1017katt1017Southern, New Hampshire USA67 Threads 10 Polls 1,384 Posts


rolling on the floor laughing
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Apr 7, 2010 9:15 PM CST The missing link
katt1017
katt1017katt1017Southern, New Hampshire USA67 Threads 10 Polls 1,384 Posts
elsson: It was a legitimate OP based on stimulating debate and conversation and I think it resulted in attaining its objective.


That is what he was saying, "This is such an obvious lure for an argument. LAME!"
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Apr 7, 2010 9:15 PM CST The missing link
Iuchi_Zien
Iuchi_ZienIuchi_ZienSheffield, South Yorkshire, England UK21 Threads 9 Polls 1,426 Posts
billyfatwas: Larva is the second stage in the life of an insect. (Egg-Larva-Pupa-Adult)

felixis99: it is also the same for an amphibiian


Amphibians pupate! Wow! Where? When? How!

Sorry, you set yourself up for that one. devil
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Apr 7, 2010 9:17 PM CST The missing link
Iuchi_Zien
Iuchi_ZienIuchi_ZienSheffield, South Yorkshire, England UK21 Threads 9 Polls 1,426 Posts
katt1017: That is what he was saying, "This is such an obvious lure for an argument. LAME!"


If you think its lame why are you here? Why don't you wander off somewhere else? So the rest of us can have a meaningful debate!
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