Welfare baby solution: Family Cap. (411)
kissmedeeply: Well becos i am reading the post..
So how do you know that "some" have NOT been in the position of having to claim benefits?
You dont. You are assuming.
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venusenvy: Gee heres a thought...How about free birth control coupled with education. The Government could also make an honest effort in making dead-beat fathers pay support. Why is this always on the women? They didnt knock themselves up
Grades 1-12 are government funded already. Higher education costs money and while I would favor student loans paid directly to institutes of higher learning for Welfare recipients that are applying themselves, I see no reason why their education should be free while many people are paying their way through school with loans and college jobs and have to be even more frugal with their money than welfare recipients. Ramen noodles and macaroni and cheese are staples for lots of college students because they've got no money. But because they're applying themselves and paying their dues, one day they probably will. And while they're paying off their student loans and working their asses off, there will be people squealing that they're the fortunate ones that should subsidize the people that dropped out of high school, hung out in the hood and got on government aid.
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Bodecia: So how do you know that "some" have NOT been in the position of having to claim benefits?
You dont. You are assuming.
read all the way through..if they were they would have said..You dont. You are assuming.
and you dont know what you are talking about..you are assuming
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kissmedeeply: read all the way through..if they were they would have said..
and you dont know what you are talking about..you are assuming
and you dont know what you are talking about..you are assuming
No, not at all.
Again, you assume that just because they have not publically stated something on a public forum they have not experienced it.
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I don't dispute that there were various Un resolutions but they were all trumped up charges as was the main reason the US finally used to intimidate the UN to invade i.e. the threat that Iraq was manufacturing nuclear weapons.
Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, are both ruled by despots who have no regard for human rights, Iran (don't make me laugh), Israel definitely but if Israel treated the palestinians fairly they would have no need for protection.
The pro democracy movement sweeping the middle east is a result of natural development aided by better communication between east and west, intel, google and facebook have more to do with whats going on there now than Bush.
Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, are both ruled by despots who have no regard for human rights, Iran (don't make me laugh), Israel definitely but if Israel treated the palestinians fairly they would have no need for protection.
The pro democracy movement sweeping the middle east is a result of natural development aided by better communication between east and west, intel, google and facebook have more to do with whats going on there now than Bush.
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Bodecia: No, not at all.
Again, you assume that just because they have not publically stated something on a public forum they have not experienced it.
Well then you answered your question..you are assuming you dont know either...Again, you assume that just because they have not publically stated something on a public forum they have not experienced it.
Now to agree to disagree..ur opinion is urs and mine is mine
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I pity the American people.I truly do.What a shame.
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I pity the American people.I truly do.What a shame.
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Albertaghost: Oh, the figure you were looking for is in the quoted article;
""According to his White House budget proposal, President Barack Obama will increase annual federal welfare spending by one-third, from $522.4 billion to $697 billion in his first fiscal year. Adjusted for inflation, the combined two-year increase of $263 billion is greater than any increase in welfare spending in history. ""
That's a lot more than Ocean's figure of less than two billion.
""According to his White House budget proposal, President Barack Obama will increase annual federal welfare spending by one-third, from $522.4 billion to $697 billion in his first fiscal year. Adjusted for inflation, the combined two-year increase of $263 billion is greater than any increase in welfare spending in history. ""
That's a lot more than Ocean's figure of less than two billion.
Of course it is as was Bush's when he was president, its called inflation duhhhhhh
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kissmedeeply: Well then you answered your question..you are assuming you dont know either...
Now to agree to disagree..ur opinion is urs and mine is mine
Now to agree to disagree..ur opinion is urs and mine is mine
How do you know I havent experienced it?
Which would mean I DO know what Im talking about..Just because I choose not to share it with the world?
Jez..
Anyhoo...
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Bodecia: How do you know I havent experienced it? Which would mean I DO know what Im talking about..
Just because I choose not to share it with the world?
Jez..
Anyhoo...
Well then!!!!geez....Just because I choose not to share it with the world?
Jez..
Anyhoo...
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kissmedeeply: Well then!!!!geez....
Well, what?
If you have made a point, I fail to see it here.
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Bodecia: Well, what?
If you have made a point, I fail to see it here.
If you have made a point, I fail to see it here.
I fail to comment on anything you have to say..
I hope you do the same
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kissmedeeply: I fail to comment on anything you have to say..
I hope you do the same
I hope you do the same
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gardenhackle: The problem of babies being tied to welfare money has been large enough that a number of different attempts to break that connection have been made in hopes of reducing the size of the problem.
One legal reform that has been implemented has been "family cap" which makes children conceived while the mother was on welfare ineligible for additional welfare funds. This removes the responsibility from society for any additional children and places the burden squarely on the mother. The caveat is that the other children could and probably will suffer as mother has less income per child and one more child to look after.
Is it fair? That's a tough call because it's not society's responsibility to pay for additional children, but neither is it the other children in the family or even that child's fault. It's a negative financial incentive to the mother that the children will likely bear the brunt of, but that said.... does it work and is it wrong that the mother of this family bears the responsibility when the state cuts off additional financial aid for additional children conceived while financial aid is being drawn?
One legal reform that has been implemented has been "family cap" which makes children conceived while the mother was on welfare ineligible for additional welfare funds. This removes the responsibility from society for any additional children and places the burden squarely on the mother. The caveat is that the other children could and probably will suffer as mother has less income per child and one more child to look after.
Is it fair? That's a tough call because it's not society's responsibility to pay for additional children, but neither is it the other children in the family or even that child's fault. It's a negative financial incentive to the mother that the children will likely bear the brunt of, but that said.... does it work and is it wrong that the mother of this family bears the responsibility when the state cuts off additional financial aid for additional children conceived while financial aid is being drawn?
I brought up two boys on my own and did TWO jobs, i say "If you dont work, you dont eat" No one supported me or my kids....but me.
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Conorco: Of course it is as was Bush's when he was president, its called inflation duhhhhhh
You seem to have mistaken this for a competition between Bush and Obama for some reason. Probably the article I posted which had the numbers for welfare costs of the two. That was not the point.
The point is that it is a lot more per year than what Ocean cited which was something like less than two billion. Or, two billion divided by fifty two being around forty million per week compared to two billion per week for the Iraq Invasion.
In fact, he was way out to lunch with the numbers being at least twenty five hundred percent off. That was the point.
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gardenhackle: Grades 1-12 are government funded already. Higher education costs money and while I would favor student loans paid directly to institutes of higher learning for Welfare recipients that are applying themselves, I see no reason why their education should be free while many people are paying their way through school with loans and college jobs and have to be even more frugal with their money than welfare recipients. Ramen noodles and macaroni and cheese are staples for lots of college students because they've got no money. But because they're applying themselves and paying their dues, one day they probably will. And while they're paying off their student loans and working their asses off, there will be people squealing that they're the fortunate ones that should subsidize the people that dropped out of high school, hung out in the hood and got on government aid.
K.. you went off on a tangent about something thats not implied. Im not refering to higher education. Im talking about educating young people about birth control. Not the dry boring blah blah that has our kids nodding off in class already, I mean apllied education. Also, they need to bring in stiffer penalties in terms of delinquent child support. As well as educate young people to the consequenses of not taking responsibility. Your going on and on about welfare mothers, and gripping about footing the tax bill. Why is there no mention of the responsibility ( or irresponsibilty rather) of men? Or the huge outstanding dead- beat father debt? Should they not be equally responsible for the for the up-keep of the children they are equally responsible for creating? are they not 50% of the party? Why is there no anger directed at them?? Or is this an example of the Good ole boyz club in action?
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englishelegance: I brought up two boys on my own and did TWO jobs, i say "If you dont work, you dont eat" No one supported me or my kids....but me.
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All the arguments about corporations this or corporations that or government spending this and government spending that have nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that the government takes money from people who work and gives it to people who don't and that it's a big enough problem that something needs done; hence the constant talk about welfare reform.
The way I see it, there are three classes of people in these discussions. There are those who work their asses off and get clipped for a lot of money by the government to support non-workers. There are people who pay very little in income tax and think of it as "bonus time" first of the year when they get all or most of their witholding back and don't mind government handouts because it doesn't come out of their pocket. And, of course, there are those that are actually collecting government aid or figure they're probably going to since they aren't doing anything to secure their own future and naturally, they're all in favor of robin hood style government taxation.
You forgot one other "class" Garden...Those that grind about the taxes they pay....In keeping with the holiday, "Render onto Ceaser's that which is Ceaser's. JC