Welfare baby solution: Family Cap. (411)
Music_Is_Life: Think the issue here is not about the mother but about the baby. What will happen if it does not get funds for what it needs such as milk and nappies? Why is it being punished for the sins of the mother?
The other issue is this is total against human rights. In Europe this would contravene the European Bill of Human rights big time, in as much as one mother with a child born before coming on welfare gets preferential treatment over another who had a child once on welfare.
Think there are better ways of saving money than hitting on single mums..Shame on you America...
The other issue is this is total against human rights. In Europe this would contravene the European Bill of Human rights big time, in as much as one mother with a child born before coming on welfare gets preferential treatment over another who had a child once on welfare.
Think there are better ways of saving money than hitting on single mums..Shame on you America...
Yeah, its called "Shutting the Stable Door after the Horse Has Bolted".
This cycle of milking the benefit system has to stop somewhere, and instead of bleating about human rights, maybe you should consider those childless couples, or couples who dont have kids who are struggling to pay their mortgages and getting thrown out on the streets.
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Music_Is_Life: Think the issue here is not about the mother but about the baby. What will happen if it does not get funds for what it needs such as milk and nappies? Why is it being punished for the sins of the mother?
The other issue is this is total against human rights. In Europe this would contravene the European Bill of Human rights big time, in as much as one mother with a child born before coming on welfare gets preferential treatment over another who had a child once on welfare.
Think there are better ways of saving money than hitting on single mums..Shame on you America...
The other issue is this is total against human rights. In Europe this would contravene the European Bill of Human rights big time, in as much as one mother with a child born before coming on welfare gets preferential treatment over another who had a child once on welfare.
Think there are better ways of saving money than hitting on single mums..Shame on you America...
It's not hitting on single mums. They're not mums unless they get pregnant and last I checked, pregnancy can be prevented. You can argue any manner of things but you can't make this about single mums. It's about mums getting making babies while they're on welfare. Actually, it's about FAMLIES making babies while on welfare. We often discuss it as though women are all that's involved and that's not the case.
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gardenhackle: The problem of babies being tied to welfare money has been large enough that a number of different attempts to break that connection have been made in hopes of reducing the size of the problem.
One legal reform that has been implemented has been "family cap" which makes children conceived while the mother was on welfare ineligible for additional welfare funds. This removes the responsibility from society for any additional children and places the burden squarely on the mother. The caveat is that the other children could and probably will suffer as mother has less income per child and one more child to look after.
Is it fair? That's a tough call because it's not society's responsibility to pay for additional children, but neither is it the other children in the family or even that child's fault. It's a negative financial incentive to the mother that the children will likely bear the brunt of, but that said.... does it work and is it wrong that the mother of this family bears the responsibility when the state cuts off additional financial aid for additional children conceived while financial aid is being drawn?
One legal reform that has been implemented has been "family cap" which makes children conceived while the mother was on welfare ineligible for additional welfare funds. This removes the responsibility from society for any additional children and places the burden squarely on the mother. The caveat is that the other children could and probably will suffer as mother has less income per child and one more child to look after.
Is it fair? That's a tough call because it's not society's responsibility to pay for additional children, but neither is it the other children in the family or even that child's fault. It's a negative financial incentive to the mother that the children will likely bear the brunt of, but that said.... does it work and is it wrong that the mother of this family bears the responsibility when the state cuts off additional financial aid for additional children conceived while financial aid is being drawn?
Another bad legal reform that could have been an excellent one had it been treated like this....
If a mother gives birth to a child while on welfare, she, her other children, and the new baby can remain on welfare as long as the mother agrees to a tubal ligation within so many days/months of giving birth....Simple.....and it will send the same powerful message......
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Well my opinon on this is...how can anyone say anything unless they walked a mile in their shoes..
People do many things for many reasons...
So i wont judge anyone unless i have walked in their shoes..
People do many things for many reasons...
So i wont judge anyone unless i have walked in their shoes..
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leigh2154: Another bad legal reform that could have been an excellent one had it been treated like this....
If a mother gives birth to a child while on welfare, she, her other children, and the new baby can remain on welfare as long as the mother agrees to a tubal ligation within so many days/months of giving birth....Simple.....and it will send the same powerful message......
If a mother gives birth to a child while on welfare, she, her other children, and the new baby can remain on welfare as long as the mother agrees to a tubal ligation within so many days/months of giving birth....Simple.....and it will send the same powerful message......
So really the full spectrum of human rights under US law should be limited to those who can afford them?
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During times of recession or depressions, people turn their eyes toward the "poor" and blame them for all of the countries problems. The people who do not wish to help the poor or the disabled are a sad company indeed.
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During times of recession or depressions, people turn their eyes toward the "poor" and blame them for all of the countries problems. The people who do not wish to help the poor or the disabled are a sad company indeed.[/quote
I agree..people look down on these..
I always say to myself..we come into this world with nothing and we are leaving this world with nothing..
They may be in their shoes someday and then realized anybody can end up this way..
I agree..people look down on these..
I always say to myself..we come into this world with nothing and we are leaving this world with nothing..
They may be in their shoes someday and then realized anybody can end up this way..
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I hate the term "welfare baby".It's like they are branding that child as less then other children because it's parents are on welfare.
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Conorco: We're not talking about abusers of the system i.e. people who fraudulently claim an entitlement, I think everyone would accept they are not entitled to a fraudulent claim. So when you refer to abusers you mean people who are in need because of their carelessness and in particular women who have kids they can't afford but for the states assistance. Do you know many of those people, do you know how they think, what their life is like, what opportunities they had starting off, how they perceive life, did they have the same chances in life as you, do you think if they were given a real choice they would choose to be living on welfare with several kids?
A "human right" is the freedom to do something but that something doesn't have to be right. For instance an alcoholic has the right to drink alcohol.
A "human right" is the freedom to do something but that something doesn't have to be right. For instance an alcoholic has the right to drink alcohol.
It's a known fact that in today's society having kids to some folk means" I get a house,am fed and clothed and don't have to work for it"
We all have choices in life never mind chances!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So people CAN choose to be sensible if they so desire and not have children they cannot support.
As for the referral to "alcohol" that in it's own way is probably responsible for many of the unwanted children in society today.
Alcoholism is a disease,getting pregnant isn't,though it looks like it's turning out that way.
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Conorco: We're not talking about abusers of the system i.e. people who fraudulently claim an entitlement, I think everyone would accept they are not entitled to a fraudulent claim. So when you refer to abusers you mean people who are in need because of their carelessness and in particular women who have kids they can't afford but for the states assistance. Do you know many of those people, do you know how they think, what their life is like, what opportunities they had starting off, how they perceive life, did they have the same chances in life as you, do you think if they were given a real choice they would choose to be living on welfare with several kids?
A "human right" is the freedom to do something but that something doesn't have to be right. For instance an alcoholic has the right to drink alcohol.
A "human right" is the freedom to do something but that something doesn't have to be right. For instance an alcoholic has the right to drink alcohol.
Yes, I do know some people abusing the system and it's the children that suffer from being subject to a life of almost abject poverty, never having enough and suffering as a result. What about their "human rights"?
Some people YES, choose not to work, have exorbitant amounts of children, just to live off the benefits of the welfare system my government provides, because it's free housing, free medical care, free food, free cell phones, free education, free, free, free...bottom line doesn't require anything other than having a bunch of kids to be guaranteed all of these things, where's the incentive to want better if someone has NO pride and ZERO initiative to make their life better?
Everyone has real choices to make and this includes using one's head and having common sense and if you're already on the bottom and living off welfare, why have more kids to make it much worse??
These types of people doing this make me utterly sick and something needs to be done to change the system, because when there's something given for free, there will always, always, always be someone out there willing to commit fraud and someone always willing to take, take and take some more.
Welfare was originally meant to be a temporary offering to people willing to "work" to improve their lives and the lives of their kids, not meant to be abused and as a permanent way of life...
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lilmamma71: Yes, I do know some people abusing the system and it's the children that suffer from being subject to a life of almost abject poverty, never having enough and suffering as a result. What about their "human rights"?
Some people YES, choose not to work, have exorbitant amounts of children, just to live off the benefits of the welfare system my government provides, because it's free housing, free medical care, free food, free cell phones, free education, free, free, free...bottom line doesn't require anything other than having a bunch of kids to be guaranteed all of these things, where's the incentive to want better if someone has NO pride and ZERO initiative to make their life better?
Everyone has real choices to make and this includes using one's head and having common sense and if you're already on the bottom and living off welfare, why have more kids to make it much worse??
These types of people doing this make me utterly sick and something needs to be done to change the system, because when there's something given for free, there will always, always, always be someone out there willing to commit fraud and someone always willing to take, take and take some more.
Welfare was originally meant to be a temporary offering to people willing to "work" to improve their lives and the lives of their kids, not meant to be abused and as a permanent way of life...
Where do you get free food and free houseing..they still have to pay a percentage on welfare also..and sometimes a big chunk...and they also dont get free medical either..Some people YES, choose not to work, have exorbitant amounts of children, just to live off the benefits of the welfare system my government provides, because it's free housing, free medical care, free food, free cell phones, free education, free, free, free...bottom line doesn't require anything other than having a bunch of kids to be guaranteed all of these things, where's the incentive to want better if someone has NO pride and ZERO initiative to make their life better?
Everyone has real choices to make and this includes using one's head and having common sense and if you're already on the bottom and living off welfare, why have more kids to make it much worse??
These types of people doing this make me utterly sick and something needs to be done to change the system, because when there's something given for free, there will always, always, always be someone out there willing to commit fraud and someone always willing to take, take and take some more.
Welfare was originally meant to be a temporary offering to people willing to "work" to improve their lives and the lives of their kids, not meant to be abused and as a permanent way of life...
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I have known and know many on welfare and I don't know of any "abusing" the system.I don't know of any who are there because they want to be there.
People hear "horror stories" about women living large on welfare and automatically assume that most people are living like that.Very few people actually know anyone on welfare,or they only know maybe one or two.I have yet to meet any who are the living large kind.I'm sure they exist,but they are not the norm.
Human rights need to be for everyone,not just the financially well off.Money and things can be lost very easily so don't be so quick to want to take away others rights.
People hear "horror stories" about women living large on welfare and automatically assume that most people are living like that.Very few people actually know anyone on welfare,or they only know maybe one or two.I have yet to meet any who are the living large kind.I'm sure they exist,but they are not the norm.
Human rights need to be for everyone,not just the financially well off.Money and things can be lost very easily so don't be so quick to want to take away others rights.
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I dont know where some of you thinks being on welfare its all free free free..
You have to pay ur food as anyone else...but less becos you are on welfare..
Housing not free either..you pay a percentage of that...
Medical is most certainly not free either...you still have to pay..
And what do you think people get from welfare as an income..
I think most would be surprise..
You have to pay ur food as anyone else...but less becos you are on welfare..
Housing not free either..you pay a percentage of that...
Medical is most certainly not free either...you still have to pay..
And what do you think people get from welfare as an income..
I think most would be surprise..
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Welfare was originally meant to be a temporary offering to people willing to "work" to improve their lives and the lives of their kids, not meant to be abused and as a permanent way of life...
Welfare is a bribe given to the masses to keep them on board so that the wealthy can continue to become wealthier in a nice organised society free of the anarchy that would ensue if welfare wasn't there.
Welfare is a bribe given to the masses to keep them on board so that the wealthy can continue to become wealthier in a nice organised society free of the anarchy that would ensue if welfare wasn't there.
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maryrachelle: I have known and know many on welfare and I don't know of any "abusing" the system.I don't know of any who are there because they want to be there.People hear "horror stories" about women living large on welfare and automatically assume that most people are living like that.Very few people actually know anyone on welfare,or they only know maybe one or two.I have yet to meet any who are the living large kind.I'm sure they exist,but they are not the norm.Human rights need to be for everyone,not just the financially well off.Money and things can be lost very easily so don't be so quick to want to take away others rights.
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kissmedeeply: Where do you get free food and free houseing..they still have to pay a percentage on welfare also..and sometimes a big chunk...and they also dont get free medical either..
Uh, I live in the US, wee have subsidized housing, Section 8, shelters, etc.
we also have Food stamps, Medicade,free childcare, which are given to people as well.
The working class pays income taxes and state taxes for these programs, which is where the "percentage" you speak of is coming from.
I don't know what you're talking about (not meant in a smart way either, because each state is different), but in Illinois/Missouri this is part and parcel of the welfare system.
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Conorco: Welfare was originally meant to be a temporary offering to people willing to "work" to improve their lives and the lives of their kids, not meant to be abused and as a permanent way of life...Welfare is a bribe given to the masses to keep them on board so that the wealthy can continue to become wealthier in a nice organised society free of the anarchy that would ensue if welfare wasn't there.
We can argue till we are blue in the face..but welfare will always be just that------ This thread is Archived ------
kissmedeeply: I dont know where some of you thinks being on welfare its all free free free..
You have to pay ur food as anyone else...but less becos you are on welfare..
Housing not free either..you pay a percentage of that...
Medical is most certainly not free either...you still have to pay..
And what do you think people get from welfare as an income..
I think most would be surprise..
You have to pay ur food as anyone else...but less becos you are on welfare..
Housing not free either..you pay a percentage of that...
Medical is most certainly not free either...you still have to pay..
And what do you think people get from welfare as an income..
I think most would be surprise..
No you don't pay taxes on the food purchased on food stamps, it's tax exempt.
No you don't pay for medications and doctors visits or hospital stays on the Medical card.
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leigh2154: Tubal ligation is not butchering, I have one, do you?? And you, on the other hand would place the rights of a not yet conceived fetus...even a maybe someday in the future fetus, over those of the existing children?..Whose rights are you disregarding???
No, I was not trying to be snide...but I will if you want me to....
No, I was not trying to be snide...but I will if you want me to....
No I wouldn't, they both should have equal rights, the government who implements the Family law rule is responsible for the inequality.
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The other issue is this is total against human rights. In Europe this would contravene the European Bill of Human rights big time, in as much as one mother with a child born before coming on welfare gets preferential treatment over another who had a child once on welfare.
Think there are better ways of saving money than hitting on single mums..Shame on you America...
You're a rabbit.