tomcatwarneOPOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK17,106 posts
New fathers win right to share a year of parental leave
Equalities minister says men are too often mocked in the workplace for wanting to juggle childcare and career
Men are too often mocked in the work place for wanting to go part time or leaving early to pick up their children, the Liberal Democrat equalities minister has said, as she announced detailed plans for new mums and dads to share a year of parental leave after the birth of a child.
Jo Swinson, who is eight months' pregnant, said she wanted to change the culture of workplaces to prevent the "conflict" between people's jobs and family life, making it just as normal for fathers to take on caring responsibilities as mothers.
She criticised the "cultural double-standards" and said it was not right for men to be disparaged for wanting to work less to spend more time caring for their children.
The proposals for parents to share 12 months of leave after the birth of a child were outlined by the Lib Dems last year, with the aim of helping women return to the workplace and allowing men to have more involvement in caring for new babies.
However, the details have only just been thrashed out by the coalition after months of wrangling about how to minimise hassle for businesses.
Under the new plans starting in April 2015, a couple will have to give their employers an indicative breakdown of how they plan to share their leave eight weeks before it starts. They will then be able to change their proposals twice during the year-long leave.
In a concession to businesses, bosses will have to agree any proposed pattern of time off and have the right to insist it is confined to a continuous block. Fathers will also get a new right to unpaid leave to attend up to two antenatal appointments.
Sources said Grant Shapps, the Conservative party chairman, led an effort to water down the package, backed by Philip Hammond, the defence secretary, Francis Maude, a cabinet office minister, Chris Grayling, the justice secretary, and Eric Pickles, the communities secretary.
The Conservative cabinet ministers wanted couples to give a binding commitment on how they would share the leave in advance, but the Lib Dems argued this would defeat the point of flexibility.
However, the Tories managed to retain the rules that parents will only be entitled to get the same job back if they take less than six months off, with anyone who takes longer potentially getting a similar but not identical role.
The Conservatives previously killed off Nick Clegg's demands for a month of dedicated "daddy leave" instead of the current two weeks.
The two parties have agreed to review the take-up of shared parental leave by fathers and look at extending paid paternity leave and pay "once the economy is in a stronger position".
Business groups, including the British Chambers of Commerce and Federation of Small Businesses, welcomed the plans, saying they had been simplified and made manageable for companies.
However, the Institute of Directors said shortening the notice period given to employers before parents return to work would create a "nightmare" for smaller firms. Other critics also pointed out surveys suggesting just one in 20 men will take up the offer.
Speaking to the Guardian, Swinson said more must be done to encourage men to take up their rights and questioned a culture in which men who take their family responsibilities seriously are "ribbed".
"Why does a man who works flexibly and part time get treated differently from the woman?" she said.
"It's a symptom of how we do have cultural double standards in many workplaces, where for women to take flexible working or leaving early on a particular day to pick up the kids from nursery is deemed to be acceptable but for some reason we treat a man who is making the same choice differently.
Glitch101London, Greater London, England UK1,079 posts
Morning Tom.
A bone of contention.
I agree that Father's have the right to bond with their children and learn good parenting skills hopefully.
It will cause contention in the work place though. At the moment an employer has to pay full wages for maternity leave for women,which is a bit harsh when you could potentially have 3 or 4 women away at the same time,and you have to cover the work load with extra staff.
MerriweatherAdelaide, South Australia Australia11,403 posts
Good evening Tom and Glitch..
I think it is about time that fathers were acknowledged .. and although this is uncomfortable for small business owners, I think that there will be finally an understanding that we people who work full time.... are not robots...
meaning that... the government watched happily while we went from 35 hrs a week to 38 hrs a week... and most places require you to work much more ...depending on the industry we are in..
Furthermore.. the biggest shame is... that it now requires two incomes to purchase a house and live... and rarely can a mother stay home and do so comfortably
and the governments thought that it was a great idea.. forward thinking, and pushing up the 'civilised world.' Heck.. so finally.. we turn into little robots.. getting up at 6am.. and getting home at 6.30am.. and no time to even think about family time... partly due to tiredness, and partly due to no hours to relax..
and Now.. hello... people want to be normal people again.. and that is a good thing.. .
But Jeez Whiz, something has got to give..
so in our case...
we are not having enough children.. because of time and work restraints.. so the govt decided to give out the baby bonus to encourage a bit of populating... and hey..
all those single, never working mums thought beaudy... and so that brill idea.. got smacked on the head..
along with hiking prices up for commodities.. now it's impossible to make ends meets without mum and dad being working robots..
so this is the new plan... let mum and dad stop home..
the only good thing here is... while they are jacking up the retirement age.. .
maybe employers will take on temp staff... and those youngun's for whom there are no jobs.. might just get a go at working... before they decided that our system is well and truly stupid.. and decide that life on the dole will do..
Whatever have we come to...multiple past bad ideas and mistakes going to bite everyone on the bum..
tomcatwarneOPOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK17,106 posts
Obstinance_Works: Why would be aiming for equality here when we know that the Mother is more critical to the child's development, particularly its early development?
Remember, the opposite of equality is not inequality, the opposite of equality is quality.
I think that both parents have an important role to play all during a child's formative years. There is more to life than making a few bucks, like making the next generation. I expect some employers who view employees as a means to make a fat profit might squeak a bit.
MerriweatherAdelaide, South Australia Australia11,403 posts
tomcatwarne: I think that both parents have an important role to play all during a child's formative years. There is more to life than making a few bucks, like making the next generation. I expect some employers who view employees as a means to make a fat profit might squeak a bit.
Oh Tom...
Don't cha think that instead of giving money away, as they do to everyone who they want to keep good working and trading relations with... they (Govt) should give it to us (small businesses in this case) to right their past wrongs... and let one or the other parent stop home for a good 4 years..
tomcatwarneOPOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK17,106 posts
Obstinance_Works: I am self-employed and for the moment I can't afford to take on any apprentices, but I plan to do so over the next few years. This legislation is only going to make this less likely to happen. Now, with youth unemployment running at over a third are we going to allow the liberal state to make it harder for me to pass on my skills of keeping the lights on and the country warm so that this would-be skilled worker can instead work in Mcdonalds or pick orders for Amazon? Is that we want? Because that's what's going to happen!
Merri and I are going to produce loads of babies to claim everything, I guess we might send you a donation
I agree that Father's have the right to bond with their children and learn good parenting skills hopefully.
It will cause contention in the work place though. At the moment an employer has to pay full wages for maternity leave for women,which is a bit harsh when you could potentially have 3 or 4 women away at the same time,and you have to cover the work load with extra staff.
Glitch101London, Greater London, England UK1,079 posts
MADDOG69: Ah Glitch. Now I can see the pic. Bravo. Now the question is, what gets potted first, the Brown or the Pink. I'm not fussy really.
I am .
If the reds are still on the table, I would always play on the black following a red ,if in the right position. You have all to play for if you want to win.
I think like you ,that not all men will take up the offer! As for women in the work place being the underdog,things have changed somewhat, and this is why you often find men being the stay at home Dad, as the wife earns more than the husband.
I also read in the news that London has the highest ratio almost 60% of their workforce have secondary degrees - it is now the most educated workforce in the world....
JeanKimberley: I also read in the news that London has the highest ratio almost 60% of their workforce have secondary degrees - it is now the most educated workforce in the world....
... I somehow doubt your statistics, possibly 60% of those with degrees have a secondary degree but not 60% of the workforce ... I somehow doubt it's the most educated workforce in the World when you conscider the Countries literacy rate which isn't that great ... Often the 'wife' earns more than the 'husband' simply because the males couldn't be bothered to study and improve their lot, just look at the gender profile of those obtaining degrees lately ...
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Equalities minister says men are too often mocked in the workplace for wanting to juggle childcare and career
Men are too often mocked in the work place for wanting to go part time or leaving early to pick up their children, the Liberal Democrat equalities minister has said, as she announced detailed plans for new mums and dads to share a year of parental leave after the birth of a child.
Jo Swinson, who is eight months' pregnant, said she wanted to change the culture of workplaces to prevent the "conflict" between people's jobs and family life, making it just as normal for fathers to take on caring responsibilities as mothers.
She criticised the "cultural double-standards" and said it was not right for men to be disparaged for wanting to work less to spend more time caring for their children.
The proposals for parents to share 12 months of leave after the birth of a child were outlined by the Lib Dems last year, with the aim of helping women return to the workplace and allowing men to have more involvement in caring for new babies.
However, the details have only just been thrashed out by the coalition after months of wrangling about how to minimise hassle for businesses.
Under the new plans starting in April 2015, a couple will have to give their employers an indicative breakdown of how they plan to share their leave eight weeks before it starts. They will then be able to change their proposals twice during the year-long leave.
In a concession to businesses, bosses will have to agree any proposed pattern of time off and have the right to insist it is confined to a continuous block. Fathers will also get a new right to unpaid leave to attend up to two antenatal appointments.
Sources said Grant Shapps, the Conservative party chairman, led an effort to water down the package, backed by Philip Hammond, the defence secretary, Francis Maude, a cabinet office minister, Chris Grayling, the justice secretary, and Eric Pickles, the communities secretary.
The Conservative cabinet ministers wanted couples to give a binding commitment on how they would share the leave in advance, but the Lib Dems argued this would defeat the point of flexibility.
However, the Tories managed to retain the rules that parents will only be entitled to get the same job back if they take less than six months off, with anyone who takes longer potentially getting a similar but not identical role.
The Conservatives previously killed off Nick Clegg's demands for a month of dedicated "daddy leave" instead of the current two weeks.
The two parties have agreed to review the take-up of shared parental leave by fathers and look at extending paid paternity leave and pay "once the economy is in a stronger position".
Business groups, including the British Chambers of Commerce and Federation of Small Businesses, welcomed the plans, saying they had been simplified and made manageable for companies.
However, the Institute of Directors said shortening the notice period given to employers before parents return to work would create a "nightmare" for smaller firms. Other critics also pointed out surveys suggesting just one in 20 men will take up the offer.
Speaking to the Guardian, Swinson said more must be done to encourage men to take up their rights and questioned a culture in which men who take their family responsibilities seriously are "ribbed".
"Why does a man who works flexibly and part time get treated differently from the woman?" she said.
"It's a symptom of how we do have cultural double standards in many workplaces, where for women to take flexible working or leaving early on a particular day to pick up the kids from nursery is deemed to be acceptable but for some reason we treat a man who is making the same choice differently.