University education (87)
I see several different threads running in this one...
First of all I want to state that education does not equal intelligence. I have met some very stupid people who are well educated in my field of work. Conversely, I have met some very intelligent people in all walks of life.
Second, what you get your degree in makes a world of difference in how affordable and what financial assistance can be found. Choose something hot and enduring.
Third, cost:
So, I started going to school some time ago and I have never incurred any student debt. Never. It looks like my eldest son is on the same road.
For my first degree in applied mathematics, I served in the US military and used my GI Bill educational benefits to help with my costs. I also held a part time job (after my second year, I tutored math!), applied for both federal and private grants, and collected food stamps. (Since I was no longer employed. Isn't the American dole system wonderful?) Afterwards, for my subsequent masters, I ask the company that I worked for what degrees they are in need of and attended school in those fields with full reimbursement from the company. MS math and MS physics were desired at those times. Now I am in MS engineering management (Ugg, yuk.) because that is what my company needs/wants. Again, full reimburement, including books and lab fees, and paid time off to attend. (I am a Rocket Scientist.)
My eldest son just completed his BS also utilizing the GI Bill. He chose a highly rated school in, now get this for current needs, Cyber Security! He said that federal and private grants were almost forced upon him. (He only accepted those with no strings attached, rejected many.) He was MAKING money attending school! (Its true, I saw his bank account!) Thus, back to my statement about choosing a current and needed field. He is now working on setting up for his grad school attendance, but will probably have to go back east for the highly acclaimed schools with most financial assistance.
Conversely, my younger son is having some trouble. His military experience was in nuclear power and that just is not a hot field right now. No assistance is available. He is currently attending a community college (low cost) to complete all of his basic required classes (basic math, english, lit, psych, etc.), working part time, and receiving a few grants. No debt yet. He will then transfer to an acclaimed engineering college for electrical engineering and activate his GI Bill. He has already started looking for grants but beleives he will need student loans to cover 1/4 to 1/2 of his costs, depending on grant availablity. I will be letting him stay at my house to help defray some costs as well.
So, what you choose, where you go, and when and how you do it are all aspects of how to get an affordable degree. You have to do your research and choose wisely. Good Luck!
First of all I want to state that education does not equal intelligence. I have met some very stupid people who are well educated in my field of work. Conversely, I have met some very intelligent people in all walks of life.
Second, what you get your degree in makes a world of difference in how affordable and what financial assistance can be found. Choose something hot and enduring.
Third, cost:
So, I started going to school some time ago and I have never incurred any student debt. Never. It looks like my eldest son is on the same road.
For my first degree in applied mathematics, I served in the US military and used my GI Bill educational benefits to help with my costs. I also held a part time job (after my second year, I tutored math!), applied for both federal and private grants, and collected food stamps. (Since I was no longer employed. Isn't the American dole system wonderful?) Afterwards, for my subsequent masters, I ask the company that I worked for what degrees they are in need of and attended school in those fields with full reimbursement from the company. MS math and MS physics were desired at those times. Now I am in MS engineering management (Ugg, yuk.) because that is what my company needs/wants. Again, full reimburement, including books and lab fees, and paid time off to attend. (I am a Rocket Scientist.)
My eldest son just completed his BS also utilizing the GI Bill. He chose a highly rated school in, now get this for current needs, Cyber Security! He said that federal and private grants were almost forced upon him. (He only accepted those with no strings attached, rejected many.) He was MAKING money attending school! (Its true, I saw his bank account!) Thus, back to my statement about choosing a current and needed field. He is now working on setting up for his grad school attendance, but will probably have to go back east for the highly acclaimed schools with most financial assistance.
Conversely, my younger son is having some trouble. His military experience was in nuclear power and that just is not a hot field right now. No assistance is available. He is currently attending a community college (low cost) to complete all of his basic required classes (basic math, english, lit, psych, etc.), working part time, and receiving a few grants. No debt yet. He will then transfer to an acclaimed engineering college for electrical engineering and activate his GI Bill. He has already started looking for grants but beleives he will need student loans to cover 1/4 to 1/2 of his costs, depending on grant availablity. I will be letting him stay at my house to help defray some costs as well.
So, what you choose, where you go, and when and how you do it are all aspects of how to get an affordable degree. You have to do your research and choose wisely. Good Luck!
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Conrad73: actually,the Constitution does not "Give" any Rights,it just enumerates them!
A Government can't give what the People already naturally posses!
A Government is only to safeguard those Rights,it can't bestow them!
The Founders knew too well,that whatever a Government gives,a Government can take it away!
As Old Ben said,the Pursuit of Happiness is guaranteed,but you have to catch it yourself!
A Government can't give what the People already naturally posses!
A Government is only to safeguard those Rights,it can't bestow them!
The Founders knew too well,that whatever a Government gives,a Government can take it away!
As Old Ben said,the Pursuit of Happiness is guaranteed,but you have to catch it yourself!
agree with old ben. but the rights were given by the founders. Amendment IX is clear on that. "Rights not listed may exist, and just because they are not listed doesn't mean they can be violated.".
it says says that any right that a person has cannot be denied just because it isn't in this list. and education is a right. cannot be limited by "monies".
by the way, i believe Franklin or someone else wanted to "have free schools"...
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CuddlingSoul: The best way to go, is to search for community colleges that have a strong, proven record of placing pre-graduates or graduates into an apprenticeship, hands on employment training while in school... More and more, the name of a colleges is less important, but having practical, mainstream knowledge in the chosen field is mandatory. Here in America, some corporations have taken it on themselves to provide departments of training and education at the work place to form and mold the kind of employee that is needed.
no jobs now ppl are going vo tech,some pay very well,n go to work after high school,we cant all be drs./attys.------ This thread is Archived ------
galrads: I hope the UK can turn this lower performance attitude around. Maybe technology is to blame for a lot of attention-depreciation going on there (and here) as pointed out in the article you provided.....
"Previous research has suggested that using text messages and email causes concentration to drop, temporarily reducing IQ by 10 points, while smoking marijuana has been associated with a four-point drop in IQ."
"Previous research has suggested that using text messages and email causes concentration to drop, temporarily reducing IQ by 10 points, while smoking marijuana has been associated with a four-point drop in IQ."
I wonder if technology is lowering IQs in the Far East. I'm sceptical whether technology per se makes a person dumber, but I'd be willing to believe that technology allows for a softness of living which over time becomes engendered into a culture of soft attitudes which then creates this dysgenic effect.
As for marijuana, perhaps this could be, my own generation is more against drugs in total than the boomers but then again the marijuana of today is far more potent than it used to be.
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Bogart_1960: agree with old ben. but the rights were given by the founders. Amendment IX is clear on that. "Rights not listed may exist, and just because they are not listed doesn't mean they can be violated.".
it says says that any right that a person has cannot be denied just because it isn't in this list. and education is a right. cannot be limited by "monies".
by the way, i believe Franklin or someone else wanted to "have free schools"...
it says says that any right that a person has cannot be denied just because it isn't in this list. and education is a right. cannot be limited by "monies".
by the way, i believe Franklin or someone else wanted to "have free schools"...
Founders couldn't give them either!
They were not theirs to give!
They are inherent in the Individual!
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
2.2 That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.
Declaration of Independence
Creator (Nature) NOT Government
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Conrad73: Founders couldn't give them either!
They were not theirs to give!
They are inherent in the Individual!
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
2.2 That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.
Declaration of Independence
Creator (Nature) NOT Government
They were not theirs to give!
They are inherent in the Individual!
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
2.2 That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.
Declaration of Independence
Creator (Nature) NOT Government
hold on, you are using " a declaration"/ statement to "claim" nature?....
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Obstinance_Works: I wonder if technology is lowering IQs in the Far East. I'm sceptical whether technology per se makes a person dumber, but I'd be willing to believe that technology allows for a softness of living which over time becomes engendered into a culture of soft attitudes which then creates this dysgenic effect.
As for marijuana, perhaps this could be, my own generation is more against drugs in total than the boomers but then again the marijuana of today is far more potent than it used to be.
As for marijuana, perhaps this could be, my own generation is more against drugs in total than the boomers but then again the marijuana of today is far more potent than it used to be.
I last experimented with marijuana back in the 70's
I just learned that our college board has eliminated the Essay part of the Scholastic Aptitude Test as part of it's redesign.(tool originally intended to create a classless, Jeffersonian-style meritocracy).
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Conrad73: Founders couldn't give them either!
They were not theirs to give!
They are inherent in the Individual!
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
2.2 That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.
Declaration of Independence
Creator (Nature) NOT Government
They were not theirs to give!
They are inherent in the Individual!
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
2.2 That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.
Declaration of Independence
Creator (Nature) NOT Government
I believe that's wrong. I believe we demand our dues in this world as Englishmen, Americans or whatever and the opportunities and rights we have our granted to us by the hard work of our ancestors as part of our cultural inheritance. What we have today has been earnt by somebody, somewhere at sometime and this is supposedly safeguarded by our state, these things do not fall from the sky.
To say that all men are equal and have an inalienable right to pursue happiness could be construed as a global-wide right for equal opportunities. Which would mean that all American parents should sacrifice the advantages their own children have and give them to the children of Somalians.
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Obstinance_Works: I believe that's wrong. I believe we demand our dues in this world as Englishmen, Americans or whatever and the opportunities and rights we have our granted to us by the hard work of our ancestors as part of our cultural inheritance. What we have today has been earnt by somebody, somewhere at sometime and this is supposedly safeguarded by our state, these things do not fall from the sky.
To say that all men are equal and have an inalienable right to pursue happiness could be construed as a global-wide right for equal opportunities. Which would mean that all American parents should sacrifice the advantages their own children have and give them to the children of Somalians.
To say that all men are equal and have an inalienable right to pursue happiness could be construed as a global-wide right for equal opportunities. Which would mean that all American parents should sacrifice the advantages their own children have and give them to the children of Somalians.
Wrong is the wrong word as we know, or should know, that the Founding Fathers did not literally mean that all men are created equal. Black people and the Sioux weren't considered amongst "all" men. They meant that all men of European descent and of the American culture were equal.
But the vaguery could be perverted by say Rainman Libertarians and handwringing Marxists in their twain aim for open borders. It's very easy to form an argument from snippets of what the Founders said that is diametrically opposed to what the Founders believed in.
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Obstinance_Works: I'm torn on the matter of to what extent we subsidise art because it's so difficult to measure its positive effects and even more difficult to ascertain whether higher education is what creates the artist.
“One cannot learn how to be creative by reading Marx. Either one is creative or one is not.” - Oswald Spengler
Universities should consider the above. And we should all ask ourselves whether meaningful art can co-exist with a meaningless age? Or is it all just a pretentious fad?
“One cannot learn how to be creative by reading Marx. Either one is creative or one is not.” - Oswald Spengler
Universities should consider the above. And we should all ask ourselves whether meaningful art can co-exist with a meaningless age? Or is it all just a pretentious fad?
Intelligence and creativity are very much alike.
All people have some yet it depends on the environment and the development of them for their expression.
And I do not see why Art-and-Science have to be separated.
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Intelligence and creativity are very much alike.
All people have some yet it depends on the environment and the development of them for their expression.
And I do not see why Art-and-Science have to be separated.[/quote]
I'm with you on this. And so did two individuals, both deceased, who were tech savvy pioneers with vision. I'm talking about Steve Jobs (Apple) and Norio Ogha (Sony). I think they admired each other, and both believed the creation of new technological innovation requires a mix of science/technology and liberal arts.
All people have some yet it depends on the environment and the development of them for their expression.
And I do not see why Art-and-Science have to be separated.[/quote]
I'm with you on this. And so did two individuals, both deceased, who were tech savvy pioneers with vision. I'm talking about Steve Jobs (Apple) and Norio Ogha (Sony). I think they admired each other, and both believed the creation of new technological innovation requires a mix of science/technology and liberal arts.
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Obstinance_Works: Wrong is the wrong word as we know, or should know, that the Founding Fathers did not literally mean that all men are created equal. Black people and the Sioux weren't considered amongst "all" men. They meant that all men of European descent and of the American culture were equal.
But the vaguery could be perverted by say Rainman Libertarians and handwringing Marxists in their twain aim for open borders. It's very easy to form an argument from snippets of what the Founders said that is diametrically opposed to what the Founders believed in.
But the vaguery could be perverted by say Rainman Libertarians and handwringing Marxists in their twain aim for open borders. It's very easy to form an argument from snippets of what the Founders said that is diametrically opposed to what the Founders believed in.
My feeling is that U're very badly mistaken this time about these founders of America. Certainly they were people of much experience who had seen different things, worlds and many ways of thinking.
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lifeisadream: Intelligence and creativity are very much alike.
All people have some yet it depends on the environment and the development of them for their expression.
And I do not see why Art-and-Science have to be separated.
All people have some yet it depends on the environment and the development of them for their expression.
And I do not see why Art-and-Science have to be separated.
Real science is essentially mechanical and rational, you can train a bright mind in the methods of building a bridge or instruct into them calculus.
Art is not the same. The great artist rests upon having emotional depths and perceptiveness - a soul if you like - and his education is life itself.
We'll make an Einstein out of a machine long before we'll make a Mozart out of a robot. As for creativity and intelligence being very much alike, did you know that Andy Warhol had an IQ of 86?
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galrads: Intelligence and creativity are very much alike.
All people have some yet it depends on the environment and the development of them for their expression.
And I do not see why Art-and-Science have to be separated.
I'm with you on this. And so did two individuals, both deceased, who were tech savvy pioneers with vision. I'm talking about Steve Jobs (Apple) and Norio Ogha (Sony). I think they admired each other, and both believed the creation of new technological innovation requires a mix of science/technology and liberal arts.
All people have some yet it depends on the environment and the development of them for their expression.
And I do not see why Art-and-Science have to be separated.
I'm with you on this. And so did two individuals, both deceased, who were tech savvy pioneers with vision. I'm talking about Steve Jobs (Apple) and Norio Ogha (Sony). I think they admired each other, and both believed the creation of new technological innovation requires a mix of science/technology and liberal arts.
Not sure about what liberal arts means in this context but in Job’s case, he was very creative, not doubt apart from being intelligent.
Obstinance_Works: Real science is essentially mechanical and rational, you can train a bright mind in the methods of building a bridge or instruct into them calculus.
Art is not the same. The great artist rests upon having emotional depths and perceptiveness - a soul if you like - and his education is life itself.
We'll make an Einstein out of a machine long before we'll make a Mozart out of a robot. As for creativity and intelligence being very much alike, did you know that Andy Warhol had an IQ of 86?
Art is not the same. The great artist rests upon having emotional depths and perceptiveness - a soul if you like - and his education is life itself.
We'll make an Einstein out of a machine long before we'll make a Mozart out of a robot. As for creativity and intelligence being very much alike, did you know that Andy Warhol had an IQ of 86?
Would you say that
Intelligence goes with science and creativity goes with art exclusively?
or
Would they overlap in some part?.
or
Everyone who is intelligent is creative as well. ???
Take software engineering, it requires creativity as well as intelligence.
An example from my daily life.
2 persons (with whom I do share half of my DNA with, I think) with an above average IQ one a bit higher than the other.
Both working with software designing.
The one with the few points below that the other has an inclination to art, the other does not.
Their programs come out rather different and the “Artistic” one presents them in the simplest way yet elegant and in a shorter time.
Is it the appreciation of Art the difference?
I know that this is not any scientific evidence.
And for the IQ measurement.
Do you know Esteve Job's IQ?
Some people have estimated it to a 160, however it is not stated in his biography book.
Why did Steve Jobs do not make a reference of his IQ in his book?
Would it be because the IQ number is just a narrow estimated and the potencial of people for creating is way apart from the IQ number.
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lifeisadream: Not sure about what liberal arts means in this context but in Job’s case, he was very creative, not doubt apart from being intelligent.
Would you say that
Intelligence goes with science and creativity goes with art exclusively?
or
Would they overlap in some part?.
or
Everyone who is intelligent is creative as well. ???
Take software engineering, it requires creativity as well as intelligence.
An example from my daily life.
2 persons (with whom I do share half of my DNA with, I think) with an above average IQ one a bit higher than the other.
Both working with software designing.
The one with the few points below that the other has an inclination to art, the other does not.
Their programs come out rather different and the “Artistic” one presents them in the simplest way yet elegant and in a shorter time.
Is it the appreciation of Art the difference?
I know that this is not any scientific evidence.
And for the IQ measurement.
Do you know Esteve Job's IQ?
Some people have estimated it to a 160, however it is not stated in his biography book.
Why did Steve Jobs do not make a reference of his IQ in his book?
Would it be because the IQ number is just a narrow estimated and the potencial of people for creating is way apart from the IQ number.
Would you say that
Intelligence goes with science and creativity goes with art exclusively?
or
Would they overlap in some part?.
or
Everyone who is intelligent is creative as well. ???
Take software engineering, it requires creativity as well as intelligence.
An example from my daily life.
2 persons (with whom I do share half of my DNA with, I think) with an above average IQ one a bit higher than the other.
Both working with software designing.
The one with the few points below that the other has an inclination to art, the other does not.
Their programs come out rather different and the “Artistic” one presents them in the simplest way yet elegant and in a shorter time.
Is it the appreciation of Art the difference?
I know that this is not any scientific evidence.
And for the IQ measurement.
Do you know Esteve Job's IQ?
Some people have estimated it to a 160, however it is not stated in his biography book.
Why did Steve Jobs do not make a reference of his IQ in his book?
Would it be because the IQ number is just a narrow estimated and the potencial of people for creating is way apart from the IQ number.
It is probably so.....
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xxDandelionxx: Yes, here in the UK, it costs thousands!
There's still no guarantee to get a career at the end of it. In fact, many have to go into jobs that don't call upon the qualification they have worked hard for, and earned. Plus, the costs have to be paid off, often over many years.
And yet, if you get pregnant at, say, 16 years old the Government will give you housing, benefits, etc, etc... blah blah blah
Don't get me started... the soap-box simply isn't big enough!! mumbling:
Mind you I do feel better for getting that off my chest - thank you!
There's still no guarantee to get a career at the end of it. In fact, many have to go into jobs that don't call upon the qualification they have worked hard for, and earned. Plus, the costs have to be paid off, often over many years.
And yet, if you get pregnant at, say, 16 years old the Government will give you housing, benefits, etc, etc... blah blah blah
Don't get me started... the soap-box simply isn't big enough!! mumbling:
Mind you I do feel better for getting that off my chest - thank you!
Go on...
I think the state cares for its NEW citizens. More people - more demand on the housing market, higher rentals and mortgages, more cash flows to the banks, more greasy some get and more bite the dust!
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lifeisadream: Intelligence and creativity are very much alike.
All people have some yet it depends on the environment and the development of them for their expression.
And I do not see why Art-and-Science have to be separated.
All people have some yet it depends on the environment and the development of them for their expression.
And I do not see why Art-and-Science have to be separated.
lifeisadreamthis article is a bit long, but it explains the relationship well between intelligence and creativity.
creativesomething.net/post/41103661291/the-relationship-between-creativity-and-intelligence
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jono7: lifeisadream
this article is a bit long, but it explains the relationship well between intelligence and creativity.
creativesomething.net/post/41103661291/the-relationship-between-creativity-and-intelligence
this article is a bit long, but it explains the relationship well between intelligence and creativity.
creativesomething.net/post/41103661291/the-relationship-between-creativity-and-intelligence
Thanks Jono
From your reeference
“…Your IQ is generally gauged by an ability to interpret information and provide solutions, no matter the circumstance. In mathematics and basic sciences IQ is immensely important, because it demonstrates your ability to memorize concepts and repeat their results on similar problems. If I tell you that two plus two equals four, you should (ideally) be able to intelligently conclude that four plus four equals twice the original answer.
Being able to come up with creative ideas isn’t something you need an overly-high IQ to accomplish. Once you’ve got a level of knowledge gathering and utilization that’s about average, you’re well on your way to having the creative potential of Albert Einstein, Bill Gates, or Steve Jobs.
– and this is the real kicker –
intelligence only gets you so far when it comes to creativity”.
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lifeisadream: Not sure about what liberal arts means in this context but in Job’s case, he was very creative, not doubt apart from being intelligent.
Would you say that
Intelligence goes with science and creativity goes with art exclusively?
or
Would they overlap in some part?.
or
Everyone who is intelligent is creative as well. ???
Take software engineering, it requires creativity as well as intelligence.
An example from my daily life.
2 persons (with whom I do share half of my DNA with, I think) with an above average IQ one a bit higher than the other.
Both working with software designing.
The one with the few points below that the other has an inclination to art, the other does not.
Their programs come out rather different and the “Artistic” one presents them in the simplest way yet elegant and in a shorter time.
Is it the appreciation of Art the difference?
I know that this is not any scientific evidence.
And for the IQ measurement.
Do you know Esteve Job's IQ?
Some people have estimated it to a 160, however it is not stated in his biography book.
Why did Steve Jobs do not make a reference of his IQ in his book?
Would it be because the IQ number is just a narrow estimated and the potencial of people for creating is way apart from the IQ number.
Would you say that
Intelligence goes with science and creativity goes with art exclusively?
or
Would they overlap in some part?.
or
Everyone who is intelligent is creative as well. ???
Take software engineering, it requires creativity as well as intelligence.
An example from my daily life.
2 persons (with whom I do share half of my DNA with, I think) with an above average IQ one a bit higher than the other.
Both working with software designing.
The one with the few points below that the other has an inclination to art, the other does not.
Their programs come out rather different and the “Artistic” one presents them in the simplest way yet elegant and in a shorter time.
Is it the appreciation of Art the difference?
I know that this is not any scientific evidence.
And for the IQ measurement.
Do you know Esteve Job's IQ?
Some people have estimated it to a 160, however it is not stated in his biography book.
Why did Steve Jobs do not make a reference of his IQ in his book?
Would it be because the IQ number is just a narrow estimated and the potencial of people for creating is way apart from the IQ number.
Oh! I've very much experienced the above things.
Creativity always finds its natural way to express itself in a DIFFERENT way, like a river seeking its way, it seeks elegance ans beauty.
Creativity puts things/notions together to build/construct NEW things/notions. This process receives pushes from the inner and outer world and generally from quite many different things - notions, feelings, inspiration, guts, desire/appeal for the new and the unknown and AT LAST experience.
Once this new thing is created it simply looses its attraction totally! In some places angels come to help utilize this new things. But most just stay in patent agencies, museums or public/private libraries.
Realize fast your dreams!
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A Government can't give what the People already naturally possess!
A Government is only to safeguard those Rights,it can't bestow them!
The Founders knew too well,that whatever a Government gives,a Government can take it away!
As Old Ben said,the Pursuit of Happiness is guaranteed,but you have to catch it yourself!