GAZA !!! ( Archived) (851)

Jul 27, 2014 2:42 PM CST GAZA !!!
stuck stuck stuck stuck stuck It is time to set aside the anger, the militant ways........


talk to hand

Change to peaceful solutions! The time is now to change to peaceful solutions. It is time now to find ways to co-exist! The world is depending on you, Isreal, you Palestine, you surrounding countries - take a deep breath, step back and find ways to co-exist.

The Middle East[note 1] (also called Mid East in US usage) is a region that roughly encompasses a majority of Western Asia (excluding the Caucasus) and Egypt. The term is used as a synonym for Near East, in opposition to Far East. The corresponding adjective is Middle Eastern and the derived noun is Middle Easterner. Arabs, Persians, and Turks constitute the largest ethnic groups in the region by population, while Kurds, Azeris, Copts, Jews, Assyrians, Maronites, Circassians, Somalis, Armenians, Druze and other denominations form a significant minority.

The history of the Middle East dates back to ancient times, and the region has generally been a major center of world affairs.

Several major religions have their origins in the Middle East, including Judaism, Christianity, and Islam; the Baha'i faith, Mandaeism, Unitarian Druze, and numerous other belief systems were also established within the region.
Most of the countries that border the Persian Gulf have vast reserves of crude oil, with the sovereign nations of the Arabian Peninsula in particular benefiting from petroleum exports. In modern times the Middle East remains a strategically, economically, politically, culturally and religiously sensitive region.
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Jul 27, 2014 2:48 PM CST GAZA !!!
A_Non_A_Moose
A_Non_A_MooseA_Non_A_MooseWestlock, Alberta Canada116 Threads 8 Polls 4,340 Posts
chris27292729: You didn't go far back enough.NOTHING would have happened in that region,if the UK refused to accept the """Balfour declaration""".Mistaken political decisions always happened,but having the courage to come out and admit,a polital mistake,is a very hard nut to swollow,for any country.-


True. The history of this conflict is indeed a long one! Always sad for the innocent lives lost,....but such is history!
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Jul 27, 2014 3:05 PM CST GAZA !!!
chris27292729
chris27292729chris27292729IOS island, South Aegean Greece93 Threads 15,811 Posts
There is a solution, Let ALL those """smart a*hes"""countries who voted for the creation of Israel,intervene military,force Israel and Palestinians to honor the 1947 borders,have permanent strong military peace keepers,and force+monitor permament disarmament,between the 2. To go there the US, FM Kerry, trying to solve the problem,is a miscarriage of justice,as everybody knows,with whom side the US is in favor for.JMO
A_Non_A_Moose: True. The history of this conflict is indeed a long one! Always sad for the innocent lives lost,....but such is history!
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Jul 27, 2014 3:08 PM CST GAZA !!!
chris27292729: There is a solution, Let ALL those """smart a*hes"""countries who voted for the creation of Israel,intervene military,force Israel and Palestinians to honor the 1947 borders,have permanent strong military peace keepers,and force+monitor permament disarmament,between the 2. To go there the US, FM Kerry, trying to solve the problem,is a miscarriage of justice,as everybody knows,with whom side the US is in favor for.JMO


It was a good thing for the US to stop flights into the area - and continue to impose sanctions on those areas.

Can you imagine if Putin decided to do a little peacekeeping in there? guess he is still too busy with Ukraine.
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Jul 27, 2014 3:11 PM CST GAZA !!!
A_Non_A_Moose
A_Non_A_MooseA_Non_A_MooseWestlock, Alberta Canada116 Threads 8 Polls 4,340 Posts
chris27292729: There is a solution, Let ALL those """smart a*hes"""countries who voted for the creation of Israel,intervene military,force Israel and Palestinians to honor the 1947 borders,have permanent strong military peace keepers,and force+monitor permament disarmament,between the 2. To go there the US, FM Kerry, trying to solve the problem,is a miscarriage of justice,as everybody knows,with whom side the US is in favor for.JMO


Oh boy,...the "heart" of this problem,....could get messy,...
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Jul 27, 2014 3:24 PM CST GAZA !!!
Lannna23
Lannna23Lannna23las Vegas, Nevada USA23 Threads 1,091 Posts
Conrad73: the only problem is that they are NOT the Descendants of the Philistine People,regardless how much they would like to be!
Even by their own admission they are not!

explain this,then!

Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.


Who is that guy, here you can take a look:

Mohsen essentially followed the line of as-Sa'iqa's Syrian Ba'athist ideology (Mohsen himself being al-Saiqa's leader under the control of the Ba'athist government of Syria under Syrian leader Hafez al-Assad), which interpreted the Palestinian question through a perspective of pan-Arab nationalism - despite the fact that in some respects this contravened the PLO charter, which affirms the existence of a Palestinian people with national rights, corresponding with this it is noted that hostility existed between the main Fatah faction of the PLO under Yasser Arafat and the Syrian Ba'ath party of Hafez al-Assad (which in turn supported Palestinians like Zuheir Mohsen and the Ba'athist al-Saiqa faction of the PLO) on this issue. Mohsen himself was in fact both a leader of the Syrian Ba'ath party controlled al-Saiqa faction of the PLO and a Palestinian member of the Syrian Ba'ath party's own National Command in the present day nation of Syria itself. Making Zuheir Mohsen uniquely both a PLO leader and an official in the ideologically Pan-Arabist Syrian Ba'ath party at the same time. As such, he stated that there were "no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese", though Palestinian identity would be emphasised for political reasons. This originated in a March 1977 interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw:

“ Between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese there are no differences. We are all part of ONE people, the Arab nation. Look, I have family members with Palestinian, Lebanese, Jordanian and Syrian citizenship. We are ONE people. Just for political reasons we carefully underwrite our Palestinian identity. Because it is of national interest for the Arabs to advocate the existence of Palestinians to balance Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new tool to continue the fight against Israel and for Arab unity.

A separate Palestinian entity needs to fight for the national interest in the then remaining occupied territories. The Jordanian government cannot speak for Palestinians in Israel, Lebanon or Syria. Jordan is a state with specific borders. It cannot lay claim on - for instance - Haifa or Jaffa, while I AM entitled to Haifa, Jaffa, Jerusalem and Beersheba. Jordan can only speak for Jordanians and the Palestinians in Jordan. The Palestinian state would be entitled to represent all Palestinians in the Arab world en elsewhere. Once we have accomplished all of our rights in all of Palestine, we shouldn't postpone the unification of Jordan and Palestine for one second.
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Jul 27, 2014 3:25 PM CST GAZA !!!
Lannna23
Lannna23Lannna23las Vegas, Nevada USA23 Threads 1,091 Posts
Statements like this demonstrate a conception of a pan-Arabist identity (advocated by some) that seeks a united Arab world (seeking one, large united Arab state spanning today's Fertile Crescent and Middle East region), in particular a recreation of a Greater Syria (Syria al-Kubra in Arabic). Doctrines like this are most clearly explained and stated by Arab political groups like the Ba'ath party (that rules Syria and once ruled Iraq under Saddam Hussein) and the Syrian Socialist Nationalist Party (SSNP) that operates in today's modern nations of Syria and Lebanon (with the support of the official Syrian government in Damascus).

Also regarding pan-Arabist views and statements, like those cited from Zuheir Mohsen, the following should be noted. Many groups within the PLO held more of a pan-Arab view than Fatah, and Fatah itself has never clearly renounced Arab nationalism in favour of a strictly Palestinian nationalist ideology. Still, the PLO has with few exceptions remained fully committed to the cause of Palestine, with even its most fervently pan-Arabist members justifying this by claiming that the Palestinian struggle must be the spearhead of a wider, pan-Arab movement. This was true, for example, in the case of the Marxist PFLP, which not only viewed the "Palestinian revolution" as the first step to Arab unity, but also as inseparable from a global anti-imperialist struggle.

The journalist Robert Fisk was to claim that al-Saiqa, under Mohsen, was to employ its energies "almost exclusively against their brother Palestinians", stating that in June 1976 he saw "the PLO in open combat within West Beirut against al-Saiqa, who had attacked Arafat's forces on orders from Damascus." Mohsen's militia has also been accused of being amongst the main perpetrators of the January 1976 Damour massacre, while some Lebanese Christian sources have suggested Mohsen led the attack on the town.
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Jul 27, 2014 3:26 PM CST GAZA !!!
Lannna23
Lannna23Lannna23las Vegas, Nevada USA23 Threads 1,091 Posts
plus,
do no0t take me wrong. I am not supporting Palestinian people at all!!!!!!!!!

But you have to be fair, if you want to judge on someone.
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Jul 27, 2014 3:28 PM CST GAZA !!!
Lannna23
Lannna23Lannna23las Vegas, Nevada USA23 Threads 1,091 Posts
Plus,
make a parallel:

Does native American people exist? Do they have their own independent country?
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Jul 27, 2014 3:35 PM CST GAZA !!!
epirb
epirbepirbDannevirke, Hawke's Bay New Zealand32 Threads 2 Polls 7,379 Posts
chris27292729: There is a solution, Let ALL those """smart a*hes"""countries who voted for the creation of Israel,intervene military,force Israel and Palestinians to honor the 1947 borders,have permanent strong military peace keepers,and force+monitor permament disarmament,between the 2. To go there the US, FM Kerry, trying to solve the problem,is a miscarriage of justice,as everybody knows,with whom side the US is in favor for.JMO
I think there are peace keepers in there or was to very recently . So if Greece voted for the creation of Israel do you want us to follow you ? Not long ago Israel shelled some NZers in a UN "peace observer" mission . And Israel are the disciplined ones , being between Islamic radicles bent on genocide and a bunch of Jews not keen on it would not be a place to be .

Hamas have no where to go from here , Gypos not keen on them no more , kissing and making up with Fatah just to get them , Fatah , paying Hamas's bills . Israel wont be able to finish the job by shooting all of them anyways the main problem will be still there .
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Jul 27, 2014 3:43 PM CST GAZA !!!
chris27292729
chris27292729chris27292729IOS island, South Aegean Greece93 Threads 15,811 Posts
? Who knows???maybe Putin,would be 50-50 and impartial in the conflict, but the US certainly ain't.grin grin grin
JeanKimberley: It was a good thing for the US to stop flights into the area - and continue to impose sanctions on those areas.

Can you imagine if Putin decided to do a little peacekeeping in there? guess he is still too busy with Ukraine.
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Jul 27, 2014 3:46 PM CST GAZA !!!
A_Non_A_Moose
A_Non_A_MooseA_Non_A_MooseWestlock, Alberta Canada116 Threads 8 Polls 4,340 Posts
Lannna23: Statements like this demonstrate a conception of a pan-Arabist identity (advocated by some) that seeks a united Arab world (seeking one, large united Arab state spanning today's Fertile Crescent and Middle East region), in particular a recreation of a Greater Syria (Syria al-Kubra in Arabic). Doctrines like this are most clearly explained and stated by Arab political groups like the Ba'ath party (that rules Syria and once ruled Iraq under Saddam Hussein) and the Syrian Socialist Nationalist Party (SSNP) that operates in today's modern nations of Syria and Lebanon (with the support of the official Syrian government in Damascus).

Also regarding pan-Arabist views and statements, like those cited from Zuheir Mohsen, the following should be noted. Many groups within the PLO held more of a pan-Arab view than Fatah, and Fatah itself has never clearly renounced Arab nationalism in favour of a strictly Palestinian nationalist ideology. Still, the PLO has with few exceptions remained fully committed to the cause of Palestine, with even its most fervently pan-Arabist members justifying this by claiming that the Palestinian struggle must be the spearhead of a wider, pan-Arab movement. This was true, for example, in the case of the Marxist PFLP, which not only viewed the "Palestinian revolution" as the first step to Arab unity, but also as inseparable from a global anti-imperialist struggle.

The journalist Robert Fisk was to claim that al-Saiqa, under Mohsen, was to employ its energies "almost exclusively against their brother Palestinians", stating that in June 1976 he saw "the PLO in open combat within West Beirut against al-Saiqa, who had attacked Arafat's forces on orders from Damascus." Mohsen's militia has also been accused of being amongst the main perpetrators of the January 1976 Damour massacre, while some Lebanese Christian sources have suggested Mohsen led the attack on the town.


Zuheir, if one is Pro-Palestinian, is listenable. Also questionable.
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Jul 27, 2014 3:52 PM CST GAZA !!!
A_Non_A_Moose
A_Non_A_MooseA_Non_A_MooseWestlock, Alberta Canada116 Threads 8 Polls 4,340 Posts
Lannna23: Plus,
make a parallel:

Does native American people exist? Do they have their own independent country?


Okay, this one I will take to the coffee-room at work (being intimately involved with First Nation postualtions in my country),...and no, they do NOT have their own country,....they were invaded and conquered,...yet, through the legal system of those who conquered, they battle,....
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Jul 27, 2014 3:58 PM CST GAZA !!!
Lannna23
Lannna23Lannna23las Vegas, Nevada USA23 Threads 1,091 Posts
A_Non_A_Moose: Okay, this one I will take to the coffee-room at work (being intimately involved with First Nation postualtions in my country),...and no, they do NOT have their own country,....they were invaded and conquered,...yet, through the legal system of those who conquered, they battle,....


I just gave you an example.
But, still it does not give a right to Palestinian people to use a humans as a shilled, to use a pictures of dead children to make a good commercial movements ........ all situation is more complex that we even can imagine!

And that is why I gave you example, just to try to find a deeper meaning.
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Jul 27, 2014 4:05 PM CST GAZA !!!
chris27292729
chris27292729chris27292729IOS island, South Aegean Greece93 Threads 15,811 Posts
I think you should go back, to the Empire you are part off,( a domain???) and asked them,"""Why we have created a mess in Palestine"""????.and you know what answer, you would be given??? """Oh well.Then our policies were """Divide and Rule""".-grin grin grin
epirb: I think there are peace keepers in there or was to very recently . So if Greece voted for the creation of Israel do you want us to follow you ? Not long ago Israel shelled some NZers in a UN "peace observer" mission . And Israel are the disciplined ones , being between Islamic radicles bent on genocide and a bunch of Jews not keen on it would not be a place to be .

Hamas have no where to go from here , Gypos not keen on them no more , kissing and making up with Fatah just to get them , Fatah , paying Hamas's bills . Israel wont be able to finish the job by shooting all of them anyways the main problem will be still there .
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Jul 27, 2014 4:09 PM CST GAZA !!!
A_Non_A_Moose
A_Non_A_MooseA_Non_A_MooseWestlock, Alberta Canada116 Threads 8 Polls 4,340 Posts
Lannna23: I just gave you an example.
But, still it does not give a right to Palestinian people to use a humans as a shilled, to use a pictures of dead children to make a good commercial movements ........ all situation is more complex that we even can imagine!

And that is why I gave you example, just to try to find a deeper meaning.


Okay,...I however do not wade too deeply into aa conflict as historic as this. Shy of a global conflict wherin sides are chosen, I so no easy solution to this situation,....and in any global conflict, human shields will be put forth and scarificed....unfortunately. The North American Native situation is uniquely different from thre conflict in Gaza, yet, in a way,...is very similar,....people just letting their perceived differences getting in the way,...
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Jul 27, 2014 4:13 PM CST GAZA !!!
Lannna23
Lannna23Lannna23las Vegas, Nevada USA23 Threads 1,091 Posts
A_Non_A_Moose: Okay,...I however do not wade too deeply into aa conflict as historic as this. Shy of a global conflict wherin sides are chosen, I so no easy solution to this situation,....and in any global conflict, human shields will be put forth and scarificed....unfortunately. The North American Native situation is uniquely different from thre conflict in Gaza, yet, in a way,...is very similar,....people just letting their perceived differences getting in the way,...


thumbs up
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Jul 27, 2014 7:45 PM CST GAZA !!!
manim
manimmanimdoha, Doha Qatar2 Posts
It feels salty when people side with the hamas in the name of pity for the palestanine people..
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Jul 27, 2014 9:04 PM CST GAZA !!!
Lannna23
Lannna23Lannna23las Vegas, Nevada USA23 Threads 1,091 Posts
manim: It feels salty when people side with the hamas in the name of pity for the palestanine people..


You are not right, I am not taking a side of Hamas - if I do that I would tike a side of murderers, but also, I cannot say that I do not feel for those children, because I am a mother, I have children, too......
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Jul 27, 2014 9:31 PM CST GAZA !!!
These "We are all Arab Brothers" and "A Nation of Muslims" statements are incredulous! laugh

Civil Wars between them have continued unabated for centuries. doh
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