GAZA !!! ( Archived) (851)

Aug 1, 2014 6:04 PM CST GAZA !!!
Merriweather
MerriweatherMerriweatherAdelaide, South Australia Australia51 Threads 11,403 Posts
Bluefish22: Why's that, have you forgotten about Hiroshima and the killing of 140,000 in one foul swoop??

If you look at history, ever since man usurped womans place as the spiritual advisor and interpreter of nature and power, once the hunter gatherer era ended, and relegated womans power to nil and took control, it has been with violence, death, greed and power.

Women need to regain the control and revert it back to nature and the importance of the human relation with the cycles of life and the beings of nature, as without nature we are extinct.

Men don't seem to realise this, and women in politics seem to feel the need to assume masculinity and carry on the farce.

Power is only truly accumulated by love.



What are you talking about Willis, confused

sorry, but I don't love you...uh oh

Disdain comes to mind..
------ This thread is Archived ------
Aug 1, 2014 6:10 PM CST GAZA !!!
A_Non_A_Moose
A_Non_A_MooseA_Non_A_MooseWestlock, Alberta Canada116 Threads 8 Polls 4,340 Posts
epirb: never looked at it that way , nuclear war equals longer peace . You a glass half full sort of fellow moos


It takes a long time to work ones self, and ones society back from the Stone Age!

I keep wondering what war-torn regions keep seeking from the global community? Sympathy? Okay,....my thoughts and prayers to the innocents lost,....but will my sympathy stop the fighting? I doubt it. Do you seek inervention by said global community (time and time again as is evident in this region,...)...so? What do you want? Permission to continue on with your scrap? Arms? Intervention with militray might? Permission to strike with kiloton weapons? Request for megatonnage delivered by someone else who can go against those from those who have aligned with the other side?

THIS region has been at it as long as I can remember,...and I ain't young! I tire of it.

Yup,...everybody just beat each other senseless (be it fists or megatons),...and nobody is going to be fighting for awhile,....it takes a long time to heal,...if you even live!

CEASEFIRE? ROFLMAO! Ceasefire does not equate to peace or resolution,....its just a time out to re-load!
------ This thread is Archived ------
Aug 1, 2014 6:18 PM CST GAZA !!!
A_Non_A_Moose
A_Non_A_MooseA_Non_A_MooseWestlock, Alberta Canada116 Threads 8 Polls 4,340 Posts
I say this without malice,....but really, missle after missle,....somebody just toss the "forbidden fruit" - although the death toll will just be quicker, not less - of a nuclear weapon,.....and I am pretty sure sides will be chosen quickly, and the entire world will have to decide what to do with its fate,.....
------ This thread is Archived ------
Aug 1, 2014 6:28 PM CST GAZA !!!
Merriweather
MerriweatherMerriweatherAdelaide, South Australia Australia51 Threads 11,403 Posts
A_Non_A_Moose: I say this without malice,....but really, missle after missle,....somebody just toss the "forbidden fruit" - although the death toll will just be quicker, not less - of a nuclear weapon,.....and I am pretty sure sides will be chosen quickly, and the entire world will have to decide what to do with its fate,.....


Flippant statement...??

The thing is that if... someone did toss the forbidden fruit... just the once, that will be the end of our peace too..???

and you wont be able to go back to having a peaceful life..and not see this unfold on your evening news as you say you would like..

because there will not be an evening news for you to watch???

but you know this...

conversing
------ This thread is Archived ------
Aug 1, 2014 6:30 PM CST GAZA !!!
A painful path


del.icio.us Favicon
Digg Favicon
Facebook Favicon
LinkedIn Favicon
Reddit Favicon
StumbleUpon Favicon

|| Tell-a-Friend || Print

Wallace Greene • Columns
Published: 04 March 2011


The issues between Israel and the Arab world (and not just the Palestinians) have been festering for close to a century. Building a wall, stationing American or U.N. troops, or balkanizing the country will not fully address the issues that have inflamed the region for so many decades. Israel is at war with the Palestinians and the Arab world. Now that Iran has nuclear capability, the potential for a wider regional confrontation and/or conflagration is very real. U.N. resolutions, third-party proxy negotiations, and high-profile photo ops will not end the fighting and killing. This conflict can only be resolved if the parties involved engage in appropriate dialogue.
Guest column

Western-style diplomacy does not work in the Middle East. Negotiators must understand the Arab mindset. Brutal street-fighting and guerrilla tactics cannot be met with Marquis of Queensberry rules. The unbalanced standard of morality, decency, and integrity that Israel is expected to maintain in the face of unspeakable horror and amorality is also an impediment to peace. This conflict can only end when the parties themselves really want it to end. An understanding of the dynamics of dialogue offers a viable approach to this debacle. This approach, which works for married couples, can also work for feuding nations or others engaged in conflict-resolution.

There are four types of dialogue. The first is called Negation Dialogue. In this type of dialogue, the parties view each other as a threat. Therefore they negate the “other” via stereotype, dehumanization, and even demonization. We see this in the anti-Semitic rantings of certain Muslim clerics and calls for jihad. It is present in media coverage of “the occupying forces” and other incitable and unbalanced reportage. We also see it in the calls for “transfer” of all Arabs, the razing of Arab homes, and in non-recognition of legitimate Palestinian aspirations. Clearly this form of dialogue is not productive.

The second type of dialogue is called Domination Dialogue. It is based on a fundamental non-acceptance of the “other.” Both sides neither recognize nor validate each other. However, they enter into dialogue with the avowed purpose of feigned relationship-building in order to convert the “other” to their point of view. Arab propaganda has been especially successful with this format. Palestinian representatives negotiate while teenagers blow themselves up at public malls. They make statements to the world press in English, while speeches to their Arabic audiences tell another story. Palestinian textbooks and military insignia show not the outline of Gaza or the west bank but of the entire State of Israel. Israeli security chiefs carry on dialogues with their Palestinian counterparts while curfews and evictions continue. Humiliation and occasional torture of Palestinians is rationalized, while Arab diplomats regularly reconstruct and fictionalize Jewish history on talking-head television shows. Many failed summits attest to the weakness of this approach. Domination Dialogue will not yield positive results.
------ This thread is Archived ------
Aug 1, 2014 6:32 PM CST GAZA !!!
The issues between Israel and the Arab world (and not just the Palestinians) have been festering for close to a century. Building a wall, stationing American or U.N. troops, or balkanizing the country will not fully address the issues that have inflamed the region for so many decades. Israel is at war with the Palestinians and the Arab world. Now that Iran has nuclear capability, the potential for a wider regional confrontation and/or conflagration is very real. U.N. resolutions, third-party proxy negotiations, and high-profile photo ops will not end the fighting and killing. This conflict can only be resolved if the parties involved engage in appropriate dialogue.
Guest column

Western-style diplomacy does not work in the Middle East. Negotiators must understand the Arab mindset. Brutal street-fighting and guerrilla tactics cannot be met with Marquis of Queensberry rules. The unbalanced standard of morality, decency, and integrity that Israel is expected to maintain in the face of unspeakable horror and amorality is also an impediment to peace. This conflict can only end when the parties themselves really want it to end. An understanding of the dynamics of dialogue offers a viable approach to this debacle. This approach, which works for married couples, can also work for feuding nations or others engaged in conflict-resolution.

There are four types of dialogue. The first is called Negation Dialogue. In this type of dialogue, the parties view each other as a threat. Therefore they negate the “other” via stereotype, dehumanization, and even demonization. We see this in the anti-Semitic rantings of certain Muslim clerics and calls for jihad. It is present in media coverage of “the occupying forces” and other incitable and unbalanced reportage. We also see it in the calls for “transfer” of all Arabs, the razing of Arab homes, and in non-recognition of legitimate Palestinian aspirations. Clearly this form of dialogue is not productive.

The second type of dialogue is called Domination Dialogue. It is based on a fundamental non-acceptance of the “other.” Both sides neither recognize nor validate each other. However, they enter into dialogue with the avowed purpose of feigned relationship-building in order to convert the “other” to their point of view. Arab propaganda has been especially successful with this format. Palestinian representatives negotiate while teenagers blow themselves up at public malls. They make statements to the world press in English, while speeches to their Arabic audiences tell another story. Palestinian textbooks and military insignia show not the outline of Gaza or the west bank but of the entire State of Israel. Israeli security chiefs carry on dialogues with their Palestinian counterparts while curfews and evictions continue. Humiliation and occasional torture of Palestinians is rationalized, while Arab diplomats regularly reconstruct and fictionalize Jewish history on talking-head television shows. Many failed summits attest to the weakness of this approach. Domination Dialogue will not yield positive results.
------ This thread is Archived ------
Aug 1, 2014 6:34 PM CST GAZA !!!
corkguy75
corkguy75corkguy75cork, Cork Ireland4 Posts
how many children were killed in gaza in the last few weeks
------ This thread is Archived ------
Aug 1, 2014 6:34 PM CST GAZA !!!
The third form of dialogue is Compartmentalization. This exchange involves keeping one’s distance while jockeying for position. The parties display respect for one another at arm’s length. This dialogue maintains the conflict and does not yield any synthesis. The Saudi peace plan and the various U.S. envoys’ attempts at triage represent compartmentalization. Sound bytes from Israel and the Palestinian leadership about the need for peace, or pleas from various world leaders to just get along are examples of compartmentalization. The give-and-take just to get the parties to the table and calls for future talks are only delaying tactics. None of this represents any real commitment to do anything concrete.

The fourth form of dialogue is called Gracious Dialogue. These exchanges are normative, not descriptive. Gracious Dialogue offers an opportunity for growth and progress, since each side confers dignity, respect, and validity on the other. It is a dialogue between equals. If the Palestinians and their Arab brethren were to really recognize the legitimacy of Israeli sovereignty, and if Israel would accept Palestinian self-determination, then peace might become a possibility. If the parties directly involved in the dispute were to validate each other’s point of view, strife might be converted to positive energy. If the Palestinian leadership in Gaza and Ramallah could agree to disagree agreeably for the greater good of the Palestinian people, if there were a true recognition of realistic security measures, if Jewish settlements in Arab communities could live safely, if Arab villages were not terrorized by vigilante settlers, if Israel had a partner it could trust, if Palestinians were treated with respect, etc.
------ This thread is Archived ------
Aug 1, 2014 6:35 PM CST GAZA !!!
These ideals are quite lofty and perhaps unrealistic, given the history and pathos of these battles. Everyone has a passionate point of view about the Mideast conflict. What is also clear is that no long-term solution is in sight. American intervention will not resolve the core issues of trust and sovereignty. Issues of right and wrong are irrelevant. Historical accuracy is also irrelevant. Neither side will be swayed by words or tanks. There is no verifiable truth in the face of facts on the ground. Western modes of thinking and negotiating do not work in this scenario. Deeply felt cultural issues of displacement, saving face, honor, and dignity, on the one side, and security, post-Holocaust survival, age-old yearnings, and the maintenance of a certain image of strength on the other, must be dealt with by the two sides. Perhaps the current leadership cannot pull this off.

Real, gut-wrenching concessions to reality must be made by both sides. Without Gracious Dialogue and the conferring of legitimacy and status on the other, the conflict will continue to destroy the land and the people in it.

If is such a small but powerful word.

Does this scenario have a foundation in reality ? Can/Will Palestinians stop teaching their children to hate and to glory in killing Jews ? Can/Will Palestinians and their ilk give up the hope of eliminating Israel from the map ? Can/Will Israelis ever trust a Palestinian leader ? Can/Will Israel fully acknowledge Palestinian aspirations? Can/Will the children of Abraham live together in peace?
------ This thread is Archived ------
Aug 1, 2014 6:38 PM CST GAZA !!!
We cannot wish the conflict away. Israelis have their truth and the Palestinians have theirs. All the arguments about why Israel should retain all the land and the historical fact that the Palestinians and the Arab world have created this mess are correct. However, people are getting killed on a regular basis. The world cannot intervene and solve this problem. If objective truth gets in the way of reality, then peace is a long, long way off. Crisis intervention and conflict resolution require Gracious Dialogue, or else the conflict will continue.
Wallace Greene
Wallace Greene, who has taught at Upsala College, Queens College, Touro College, and Yeshiva University, writes and lectures on contemporary Jewish topics.



Part of the article got duplicated,so just skip the duplicate and read on below it in the next post!
------ This thread is Archived ------
Aug 1, 2014 6:41 PM CST GAZA !!!
Merriweather
MerriweatherMerriweatherAdelaide, South Australia Australia51 Threads 11,403 Posts
corkguy75: how many children were killed in gaza in the last few weeks




Oh, what a cute baby you are holding there...

angel2


just a tiny little soul...

daisy


to answer your question... too many... !! by the hand of their carers as well as their oppressors..
------ This thread is Archived ------
Aug 1, 2014 6:43 PM CST GAZA !!!
A_Non_A_Moose
A_Non_A_MooseA_Non_A_MooseWestlock, Alberta Canada116 Threads 8 Polls 4,340 Posts
Merriweather: Flippant statement...??

The thing is that if... someone did toss the forbidden fruit... just the once, that will be the end of our peace too..???

and you wont be able to go back to having a peaceful life..and not see this unfold on your evening news as you say you would like..

because there will not be an evening news for you to watch???

but you know this...


Yes, there is a degree of flippancy intended,...then again,...there is not.

What do you see as a solution? The continued falsehoods of negotiated "ceasefires" and multiple Nobel Peace Prizes granted whenever a leader of a superpower can broker a few years of "peace"?

Unfortunately, this is an extremely complex political/ideological/religious situation that just goes on and on,...my refernce to the "news" that what I see on the news TODAY is almost the exact same as every other time this region has erupted into violence.

Yes,....let any country toss a nuke and the entire world will get messy (exception was when the USA did,....they are the one and only,....),....but hey,....conventional exposive missles,...by the thousands,....kill just as many,....just no fallout,.....should I ignore this situation? Help whatever side I chose but only toss a few "rocks",....do we let them hammer it out and turn our backs,....or does the global community step in and say,....ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! PEACE OR ALL OUT WAR! CHOOSE!

And now,....I am back to watching Celebrity Allgator Hunter's of Honey Boo Boo!
------ This thread is Archived ------
Aug 1, 2014 6:46 PM CST GAZA !!!
A_Non_A_Moose
A_Non_A_MooseA_Non_A_MooseWestlock, Alberta Canada116 Threads 8 Polls 4,340 Posts
Conrad73: We cannot wish the conflict away. Israelis have their truth and the Palestinians have theirs. All the arguments about why Israel should retain all the land and the historical fact that the Palestinians and the Arab world have created this mess are correct. However, people are getting killed on a regular basis. The world cannot intervene and solve this problem. If objective truth gets in the way of reality, then peace is a long, long way off. Crisis intervention and conflict resolution require Gracious Dialogue, or else the conflict will continue.
Wallace Greene
Wallace Greene, who has taught at Upsala College, Queens College, Touro College, and Yeshiva University, writes and lectures on contemporary Jewish topics.



Part of the article got duplicated,so just skip the duplicate and read on below it in the next post!


Yeah,...peace is indeed,...a long, long way off,.....sigh,....
------ This thread is Archived ------
Aug 1, 2014 6:53 PM CST GAZA !!!
Merriweather
MerriweatherMerriweatherAdelaide, South Australia Australia51 Threads 11,403 Posts
A_Non_A_Moose: Yes, there is a degree of flippancy intended,...then again,...there is not.

What do you see as a solution? The continued falsehoods of negotiated "ceasefires" and multiple Nobel Peace Prizes granted whenever a leader of a superpower can broker a few years of "peace"?

Unfortunately, this is an extremely complex political/ideological/religious situation that just goes on and on,...my refernce to the "news" that what I see on the news TODAY is almost the exact same as every other time this region has erupted into violence.

Yes,....let any country toss a nuke and the entire world will get messy (exception was when the USA did,....they are the one and only,....),....but hey,....conventional exposive missles,...by the thousands,....kill just as many,....just no fallout,.....should I ignore this situation? Help whatever side I chose but only toss a few "rocks",....do we let them hammer it out and turn our backs,....or does the global community step in and say,....ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! PEACE OR ALL OUT WAR! CHOOSE!

And now,....I am back to watching Celebrity Allgator Hunter's of Honey Boo Boo!


Hey Non Moose,

I need to think very much more, and inform myself much more before I could answer your question.

But I tend to think, that when people are brainwashed from very young ages around religious beliefs, they will grow up and continue this 'warring mentality'.

That Israel is surrounded by Arab and predominately Muslim religions is not helpful... That the Arab countries who have religion as their mainstay.. like ours is meat and 3 veg is also not helpful..

That business of the radicals wanting the whole world to think their way is also not helpful... and I am talking all radicals anywhere..
------ This thread is Archived ------
Aug 1, 2014 9:01 PM CST GAZA !!!
Lannna23: Muslims killed a people in my country, stole a piece of land claiming that piece belonged to them years before. And it is not a truth at all! That piece was part of my country of origin back in 4th century till 5 years ago. They proclaimed independency, started killing Christian people, selling organs.....killing children and women and called for jihad! The Muslims were hiding behind support that they got from Western Countries, also propagated a huge "massacres" done by my people on them - pure lie!!!!!!!!

Now, in Gaza, they hiding their acts, masking their acts toward Israel by killed children. Did Israel do the same? Do they go around showing their victims?


I'd be curious to know your country of origin where this happened?
------ This thread is Archived ------
Aug 2, 2014 3:49 AM CST GAZA !!!
Jaymack: "Thou Shall not Kill"

We are talking about that, but also you use the Bible when you feel like it,basically to screw the scriptures,very dangerous and against that particular best sellers ethos's

actually the Commandment is,"Thou shalt not Murder",something those Hamas-Brutes are quite efficient at!
------ This thread is Archived ------
Aug 2, 2014 3:58 AM CST GAZA !!!
chris27292729
chris27292729chris27292729IOS island, South Aegean Greece93 Threads 15,811 Posts
Now Con.you moved the level of ""Murder"" to its lowest. """Who are the best murderes"""doh doh thumbs down thumbs down Sure you exonerate the Israelis.grin grin grin
Conrad73: actually the Commandment is,"Thou shalt not Murder",something those Hamas-Brutes are quite efficient at!
------ This thread is Archived ------
Aug 2, 2014 3:59 AM CST GAZA !!!
chris27292729: Now Con.you moved the level of ""Murder"" to its lowest. """Who are the best murderes""" Sure you exonerate the Israelis.

Chris,as usual you howl with the Wolves but don't know Squat,and that's a Fact!rolling on the floor laughing
------ This thread is Archived ------
Aug 2, 2014 4:02 AM CST GAZA !!!
raphael119
raphael119raphael119washington d.c., District of Columbia USA19 Threads 3 Polls 5,181 Posts
They ought to break up the middle east into pre ww1 tribal states. Then israel would be just one of 100 ongoing conflicts.
------ This thread is Archived ------
Aug 2, 2014 4:16 AM CST GAZA !!!
epirb
epirbepirbDannevirke, Hawke's Bay New Zealand32 Threads 2 Polls 7,379 Posts
This scrap has the look of Stalingrad about it . Standing on the Gazan steppe and shelling the place flat covers up tunnels .
------ This thread is Archived ------
Post Comment - Post a comment on this Forum Thread

This Thread is Archived

This Thread is archived, so you will no longer be able to post to it. Threads get archived automatically when they are older than 3 months.

« Go back to All Threads
Message #318
We use cookies to ensure that you have the best experience possible on our website. Read Our Privacy Policy Here