South Africa to allow elephant culling (25)
Culling is the only option to maintain fauna and flora in what is now a controlled, very large zoo..... called the Kruger National Park. Elephants are the most destructive of all species in terms of their impact on the landscape....if their numbers are not synthetically controlled, they will cause huge environmental degradation, with subsequent crashes of different specie groups.....this was witnessed dramatically in Botswana, in the 80's in the Chobe area....
Conrad73: South Africa to allow elephant culling
PRETORIA, South Africa - South Africa says it will allow the culling of elephants for the first time since 1994.
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PRETORIA, South Africa - South Africa says it will allow the culling of elephants for the first time since 1994.
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Lagoona22: Culling is the only option to maintain fauna and flora in what is now a controlled, very large zoo..... called the Kruger National Park. Elephants are the most destructive of all species in terms of their impact on the landscape....if their numbers are not synthetically controlled, they will cause huge environmental degradation, with subsequent crashes of different specie groups.....this was witnessed dramatically in Botswana, in the 80's in the Chobe area....
Yes,I am aware of how destructive those Animals can be.
What I don't understand why their numbers couldn't have been kept at a reasonable amount from the start,instead of having to do wholesale Killing of those splendid Beasts later on.
Similar to how the Game-Animal Population is maintained at reasonable numbers elsewhere.
If we are talking about Kruger, I don't know the answer to that.... Kruger is probably one of the world's great success stories in game management....you may well find that the culling project that was halted in '94 was due to public and political pressure, not rationale, science-based issues.....I have eaten elephant steak, warthog etc in the restaurants in Kruger. This may seem a contradiction to a lot of the uninformed public, but it makes excellent ecological sense. As more indigenous people get employement and earn their living off tourism around and in the game parks, including the culling projects, they begin to perceive that their active involvement in the protection of the ecology and the wildlife, is a win-win situation....it's all about creating a sustainable environment which supports both man and nature...
Conrad73: Yes,I am aware of how destructive those Animals can be.
What I don't understand why their numbers couldn't have been kept at a reasonable amount from the start,instead of having to do wholesale Killing of those splendid Beasts later on.
Similar to how the Game-Animal Population is maintained at reasonable numbers elsewhere.
What I don't understand why their numbers couldn't have been kept at a reasonable amount from the start,instead of having to do wholesale Killing of those splendid Beasts later on.
Similar to how the Game-Animal Population is maintained at reasonable numbers elsewhere.
I can't understand that either, why didn't they keep the number less from the beginning, so that it is not necessary now to start the big Killing. Is it never possible to keep some balance in nature?
Conrad73: Yes,I am aware of how destructive those Animals can be.
What I don't understand why their numbers couldn't have been kept at a reasonable amount from the start,instead of having to do wholesale Killing of those splendid Beasts later on.
Similar to how the Game-Animal Population is maintained at reasonable numbers elsewhere.
What I don't understand why their numbers couldn't have been kept at a reasonable amount from the start,instead of having to do wholesale Killing of those splendid Beasts later on.
Similar to how the Game-Animal Population is maintained at reasonable numbers elsewhere.
Lagoona22: If we are talking about Kruger, I don't know the answer to that.... Kruger is probably one of the world's great success stories in game management....you may well find that the culling project that was halted in '94 was due to public and political pressure, not rationale, science-based issues.....I have eaten elephant steak, warthog etc in the restaurants in Kruger. This may seem a contradiction to a lot of the uninformed public, but it makes excellent ecological sense. As more indigenous people get employement and earn their living off tourism around and in the game parks, including the culling projects, they begin to perceive that their active involvement in the protection of the ecology and the wildlife, is a win-win situation....it's all about creating a sustainable environment which supports both man and nature...
Case in point,got a Friend who hunts all over Europe,and I mean a Passionate Hunter,funny thing is,he is a Vegetarian.
But he claims the same thing as you do,and i agree.
It's just so bad that the people that know best are always left out of the decision making loop,while the Biggest Noisemakers usually get their Head.
Reminds me of what a Friend of mine used to say sometimes;
Conrad ,he'd say,remember,Empty Drums make the Biggest Noise
That's what really "T"s me off,letting those Herds grow until wholesale Culling became necessary.
Donau: I can't understand that either, why didn't they keep the number less from the beginning, so that it is not necessary now to start the big Killing. Is it never possible to keep some balance in nature?
That is exactly what i can't get into my Head.
But most likely it had to do with some "misguided" Environmental Groups that had more Political Clout than Common Sense.
Exactly that.....
Let's face it......"culling" is never a nice option, but is vitally essential because we have so disrupted the natural cycles of nature......but the system is still probably more humane than the modern slaughterhouses of today that despatch thousands of animals daily for our consumption.....
Let's face it......"culling" is never a nice option, but is vitally essential because we have so disrupted the natural cycles of nature......but the system is still probably more humane than the modern slaughterhouses of today that despatch thousands of animals daily for our consumption.....
Conrad73: That is exactly what i can't get into my Head.
But most likely it had to do with some "misguided" Environmental Groups that had more Political Clout than Common Sense.
But most likely it had to do with some "misguided" Environmental Groups that had more Political Clout than Common Sense.
I think Robert Mugabwe (Zimbabwe's dictator) should be put in charge of this project........as he's been 'culling' his own people very successfully for nearly thirty years !
womble: I think Robert Mugabwe (Zimbabwe's dictator) should be put in charge of this project........as he's been 'culling' his own people very successfully for nearly thirty years !
How long do you think ANY Elephants would be about in that case?
Conrad73: How long do you think ANY Elephants would be about in that case?
Conrad, the answer is another 34 years......................... as this is the life expectancy of a man in Zimbabwe!
womble: Conrad, the answer is another 34 years......................... as this is the life expectancy of a man in Zimbabwe!
Pretty grim outlook.
With all due respect to these learned men and their logical debate here..... I have heard another theory, put out by those without anything to gain from culling.
Firstly that elephant land that is not devastated by these huge beasts will eventually not be able to support them anyway .... it needs their destruction to re-generate itself for their benefit.
Secondly that left alone in their intimate family groups their birthrate will level out on its own - to suit the size of the land they are able to inhabit.
Thirdly that the herds are terribly traumatised by human intervention.... Where the bottom line will most definitely be for Money, despite protestations to the contrary.
A case in point of Mans Stupidity is when they took 3baby survivors of a culling and re-located them into the Knysna Forests, believing that the young elephants would survive with their "instincts" , and it was hoped they would team up with the elusive Knysna Forest elephants ...... When one of them died of starvation some interest was shown and it was found that without their mothers, siblings, aunts, and the Matriarch they were just as helpless as any human youngster to fend for themselves .... they did not know how to survive outside their family circle. All of them eventually perished (Probably from broken hearts as well).
Have any of you seen that YouTube video of the parent Buffalos who called in the entire herd of Buffalo to rescue their baby who escaped a crocodile and then was attacked by 3 lions? Animals have feelings too.
Firstly that elephant land that is not devastated by these huge beasts will eventually not be able to support them anyway .... it needs their destruction to re-generate itself for their benefit.
Secondly that left alone in their intimate family groups their birthrate will level out on its own - to suit the size of the land they are able to inhabit.
Thirdly that the herds are terribly traumatised by human intervention.... Where the bottom line will most definitely be for Money, despite protestations to the contrary.
A case in point of Mans Stupidity is when they took 3baby survivors of a culling and re-located them into the Knysna Forests, believing that the young elephants would survive with their "instincts" , and it was hoped they would team up with the elusive Knysna Forest elephants ...... When one of them died of starvation some interest was shown and it was found that without their mothers, siblings, aunts, and the Matriarch they were just as helpless as any human youngster to fend for themselves .... they did not know how to survive outside their family circle. All of them eventually perished (Probably from broken hearts as well).
Have any of you seen that YouTube video of the parent Buffalos who called in the entire herd of Buffalo to rescue their baby who escaped a crocodile and then was attacked by 3 lions? Animals have feelings too.
Conrad73: Yes,I am aware of how destructive those Animals can be.
What I don't understand why their numbers couldn't have been kept at a reasonable amount from the start,instead of having to do wholesale Killing of those splendid Beasts later on.
Similar to how the Game-Animal Population is maintained at reasonable numbers elsewhere.
What I don't understand why their numbers couldn't have been kept at a reasonable amount from the start,instead of having to do wholesale Killing of those splendid Beasts later on.
Similar to how the Game-Animal Population is maintained at reasonable numbers elsewhere.
One of the old policies from the 50's to at least the late 70's was to move excess numbers around to those game parks/Preserves in other locales. Sadly most exchanges ended with the Rhodesian War . Afterwards it started up again but didn't last long. The alleged reason was economics ...aka, cheaper to just kill them, charging huge fees for alleged big shot hunters and their killing safari's ,all using "humanitarian aid" labels plastered on their ammo boxes...
I know the benefits of what I term restricted culling, not whole sale slaughter that takes place invariably with corrupt officials. culling on that sort of scale, really, should be limited to other humans and perhaps expand the National Parks afterwards...imo
Elephants, like humans, will eat and reproduce themselves out of existence if not checked by natural balances, war, sickness etc....We have forever altered the ancient migration cycles of the great elephant herds of previous centuries. That cycle took them from east and central Africa, Kenya, Tanzania, down thru Botswana into Mocambique, and then back again....Their impact on the land was mitigated by their constant moving...just like any of the herd animals...Now that we have penned them up in a large zoo, we have to keep their numbers artificially stablized to a number that the land can sustain.
Usually an entire herd is "taken out" at one time....because it has been established long ago that the deaths of individual family members is traumatising for the surviving members. An entire herd is cut off, and eliminated to the last elephant. It is done as humanely as possible. It's not nice, but it's necessary. And as I've said before, no less brutal than the death of thousand of cattle daily in abattoirs all over the world....
it is also no more brutal than the wholesale slaughter of sea fish....ever seen tuna struggling in the nets, while being speared one by one?...we are carnivours....that's life...
Usually an entire herd is "taken out" at one time....because it has been established long ago that the deaths of individual family members is traumatising for the surviving members. An entire herd is cut off, and eliminated to the last elephant. It is done as humanely as possible. It's not nice, but it's necessary. And as I've said before, no less brutal than the death of thousand of cattle daily in abattoirs all over the world....
it is also no more brutal than the wholesale slaughter of sea fish....ever seen tuna struggling in the nets, while being speared one by one?...we are carnivours....that's life...
Hi Guys!!!! How are you all doing??? Missed ya! have been away for a while..well
having a great time (darn, so many new emoticons here now!! love the "little bunny :), go figure WHY?!:)...still a bit busy, but shall have some free time next week..promise to tell you all my news, of course ONLY if anyone cares :)Oh, and Conrad..sorry for taking space on your thread, it was just the 1st one that I saw when I logged in (had some difficult time with logging in, as I completely forgot my password
...Also, sorry guys for disappearing without saying a word..But I have an alibi... no, I don't 
"IT" just happened..and you know: when someone's having a good time-then that someone got very little time left for anything else! BUT I TRULY MISSED YOU ALL! Hope, you didn't erase me completely from your memories either? 
If anyone wants to say "Hi" to me, please do...I'll be happy to hear from you!!! Kisses to ALL, yours Awesome 
PS Be back sometime next week, ok?!
How are you all doing??? Missed ya! have been away for a while..well having a great time (darn, so many new emoticons here now!! love the "little bunny :), go figure WHY?!:)...still a bit busy, but shall have some free time next week..promise to tell you all my news, of course ONLY if anyone cares :)Oh, and Conrad..sorry for taking space on your thread, it was just the 1st one that I saw when I logged in (had some difficult time with logging in, as I completely forgot my password ...Also, sorry guys for disappearing without saying a word..But I have an alibi... no, I don't "IT" just happened..and you know: when someone's having a good time-then that someone got very little time left for anything else! BUT I TRULY MISSED YOU ALL! Hope, you didn't erase me completely from your memories either? If anyone wants to say "Hi" to me, please do...I'll be happy to hear from you!!! Kisses to ALL, yours Awesome PS Be back sometime next week, ok?!
AwesomeChoice: Hi Guys!!!! How are you all doing??? Missed ya! have been away for a while..well having a great time (darn, so many new emoticons here now!! love the "little bunny :), go figure WHY?!:)...still a bit busy, but shall have some free time next week..promise to tell you all my news, of course ONLY if anyone cares :)Oh, and Conrad..sorry for taking space on your thread, it was just the 1st one that I saw when I logged in (had some difficult time with logging in, as I completely forgot my password
...Also, sorry guys for disappearing without saying a word..But I have an alibi... no, I don't "IT" just happened..and you know: when someone's having a good time-then that someone got very little time left for anything else! BUT I TRULY MISSED YOU ALL! Hope, you didn't erase me completely from your memories either? If anyone wants to say "Hi" to me, please do...I'll be happy to hear from you!!! Kisses to ALL, yours Awesome PS Be back sometime next week, ok?!
...Also, sorry guys for disappearing without saying a word..But I have an alibi... no, I don't "IT" just happened..and you know: when someone's having a good time-then that someone got very little time left for anything else! BUT I TRULY MISSED YOU ALL! Hope, you didn't erase me completely from your memories either? If anyone wants to say "Hi" to me, please do...I'll be happy to hear from you!!! Kisses to ALL, yours Awesome PS Be back sometime next week, ok?!
hey awes great to see yer back
I know the Topic is controversial.
I just hoped by pointing out what is planned,that maybe just once Humans are going to act in the interest of those beautiful Creatures
I just hoped by pointing out what is planned,that maybe just once Humans are going to act in the interest of those beautiful Creatures
Conrad73: I know the Topic is controversial.
I just hoped by pointing out what is planned,that maybe just once Humans are going to act in the interest of those beautiful Creatures
I just hoped by pointing out what is planned,that maybe just once Humans are going to act in the interest of those beautiful Creatures
Okay, Well, the only way humans are going to act in the interest of the elephants is for someone to actually do some acting.
So, I have a suggestion. Hows about you and me, we go to Africa, and we invest in one of those Safari Landrover vehicles, and we simply attach ourselves to an elephant herd, and if "they" want to shoot the elephants they gotta shoot us first? ... And whoever else on CS wants to join us.....? Like a mini Greenpeace organisation.....
Then after that we go do the same with the Gorillas of Rawanda?Except I draw the line at the seal culling ... its too damn cold on the ice! I`ll leave that side to the young `uns.........
smoky: Okay, Well, the only way humans are going to act in the interest of the elephants is for someone to actually do some acting.
So, I have a suggestion. Hows about you and me, we go to Africa, and we invest in one of those Safari Landrover vehicles, and we simply attach ourselves to an elephant herd, and if "they" want to shoot the elephants they gotta shoot us first? ... And whoever else on CS wants to join us.....? Like a mini Greenpeace organisation..... Then after that we go do the same with the Gorillas of Rawanda?
Except I draw the line at the seal culling ... its too damn cold on the ice! I`ll leave that side to the young `uns.........
So, I have a suggestion. Hows about you and me, we go to Africa, and we invest in one of those Safari Landrover vehicles, and we simply attach ourselves to an elephant herd, and if "they" want to shoot the elephants they gotta shoot us first? ... And whoever else on CS wants to join us.....? Like a mini Greenpeace organisation..... Then after that we go do the same with the Gorillas of Rawanda?
Except I draw the line at the seal culling ... its too damn cold on the ice! I`ll leave that side to the young `uns.........
Ouch,getting Shot is really a Heap of Hurt
PS: And then we might get Trampled.
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- Why is this shameful?
- Kultur-multur
- The weird and the random facts around the world
- your favorite topic?
- Unions support Democrats!
- More Proof The GOP is a Criminal Organization
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- Have it both ways!
- Who will be The Last Person To Post... VERSION FOUR
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34 minutes ago
PRETORIA, South Africa - South Africa says it will allow the culling of elephants for the first time since 1994.
A cautiously worded government statement given to reporters Monday says culling elephants will be "an option for management of growing populations." The government notice is to be published on Friday.
South Africa's elephant population has ballooned from 8,000 in 1994, when the government banned killing the mighty beasts to control the numbers, to more than 20,000.