Why I do not like faith (a thread for atheists /agnostics to share their views in a peaceful settin (101)
crotalus_p: explain what you call zen ??
I didn't create it or change it, It is what it is. I was refering to "Zen Atheism"------ This thread is Archived ------
hamanim: Which bible are you referring to?.
With references to new and old testaments I think that is pretty obvious hamanim: Do you believe that the World exist without any morals,
Of course people have morals , but they to not get them from a deity
hamanim: If your so smart then prove G-D does not exist
It is not up to us to prove a negative , if you wish to propose that a god exists then it is up to you to present your evidence for scrutiny
hamanim: and also where we came from.
Evolution
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keytone: I didn't create it or change it, It is what it is. I was refering to "Zen Atheism"
well what is it
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crotalus_p: well what is it
you're serious?------ This thread is Archived ------
Following are some suggestions to lead a nice, Zen Atheistic life. Remember, these are not rules, for rules are for followers. As a Zen Atheist, one should seek Nirvana without having to obey, believe, or even acknowledge others!
1. Be nice to animals. An animal would never go out of it's way to harm you for no good reason. Be nice to bugs too. They didn't ask to be born any more than you did. They're just trying to survive, doing what it takes, JUST LIKE YOU! Remember, we may be considered food by some animals, so reasonable caution is advised.
2. Be nice to people too. Even though the vast majority of them probably don't deserve it. It's a lot easier to be nice and go about your business than it is to put up with a cranky idiot who feels slighted. Don't be too nice though, you'll spoil them!
3. Don't reproduce to excess. A good rule of thumb would be to do no more than replace yourself on this planet. This would mean for every couple, two children. Assuming, of course, that the couple stays together for the rest of their lives. China is doing a good thing with their one child rule. We shouldn't subsidize egos by encouraging riffraff to reproduce like bunnies, especially when they spit out even more Frightened Bunnies.
4. Don't worship a god; don't even worship yourself! Rather than worship Within, or Outside yourself, find the delicate balance between the two, the middle path. Not to do both, but to do neither.
5. Be responsible for your actions. And, take all the glory for your achievements. Everything good or bad that happens to you is most likely your fault, not that of an imaginary guy. If you're the hapless victim of someone else's troubles, too bad, that's life.
6. Be nice to your body. Try to avoid poisons. Your mind won't work if your body doesn't.
continued
1. Be nice to animals. An animal would never go out of it's way to harm you for no good reason. Be nice to bugs too. They didn't ask to be born any more than you did. They're just trying to survive, doing what it takes, JUST LIKE YOU! Remember, we may be considered food by some animals, so reasonable caution is advised.
2. Be nice to people too. Even though the vast majority of them probably don't deserve it. It's a lot easier to be nice and go about your business than it is to put up with a cranky idiot who feels slighted. Don't be too nice though, you'll spoil them!
3. Don't reproduce to excess. A good rule of thumb would be to do no more than replace yourself on this planet. This would mean for every couple, two children. Assuming, of course, that the couple stays together for the rest of their lives. China is doing a good thing with their one child rule. We shouldn't subsidize egos by encouraging riffraff to reproduce like bunnies, especially when they spit out even more Frightened Bunnies.
4. Don't worship a god; don't even worship yourself! Rather than worship Within, or Outside yourself, find the delicate balance between the two, the middle path. Not to do both, but to do neither.
5. Be responsible for your actions. And, take all the glory for your achievements. Everything good or bad that happens to you is most likely your fault, not that of an imaginary guy. If you're the hapless victim of someone else's troubles, too bad, that's life.
6. Be nice to your body. Try to avoid poisons. Your mind won't work if your body doesn't.
continued
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keytone: you're serious?
Zen is a lot of things to a lot of people so when you say zen atheisim it is only propper that I as what you mean by it
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agh, i dont bother with any religion... i couldnt be arsed worrying about why is it that god loves us so much then why do we feel pain, or why is there wars, or what happens when you die and whatnot.. i live to look out for myself and friends... selfish maybe, but thats just me i suppose.. i dont really care if i get reincarnted as a ant when i die or if i just die.. just live for now goddammit!
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Doubt is a form of radical faith. The only way
we can remain faithful to the 'mystery of
mystery' is to preserve ambiguity. Certainty
is the enemy of truth.
The truly faithful person is the iconoclast who
must, from time to time, break the old
categories in order to free the energy to flow
again.
All concepts, whether domas or operative
beliefs, are husks which once held energy
but which can also serve as a prison.
James Hollis
we can remain faithful to the 'mystery of
mystery' is to preserve ambiguity. Certainty
is the enemy of truth.
The truly faithful person is the iconoclast who
must, from time to time, break the old
categories in order to free the energy to flow
again.
All concepts, whether domas or operative
beliefs, are husks which once held energy
but which can also serve as a prison.
James Hollis
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crotalus_p: welcome to the club
well..I dont belong to a club , but do you go along with most of this? btw,,on a side note,,,I have all my Stepfathers Books, he studied many "ideals" Zen was the place he ineveitably concluded with though he said one day before he died that as he was in a local narket he heard the "ring" of a register bell, from that point he had clarity and was at peace. had no need to search...anyway....sorry to go off the subject. I just wanted to get a better idea of what your ideals were.
Thanks
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FlowerOfTheSun: The bible as we know it only has in it "the bits" that were "approved" by the "powers that be" at the time ... I can't remember how the gospels according to St Luke, St Thomas, St Paul and St John (I think that's their names) fit in into the Bible story but there have been ancient scrolls discovered a few years ago that prove that those 4 were not the only gospels written. As far as I'm concerned, the bible as we know is a put together of "bits" with too many "out of context and left out bits". Probably why there are so many contradictions in it.
I don't take the bible or any other christian religious writings as the word of God or a representation of the words of God. They are only the words that some blokes (there weren't ever any women involved in those publications) chose to make public and use for the purpose of power.
So in my mind God doesn't equal bible ...
I don't take the bible or any other christian religious writings as the word of God or a representation of the words of God. They are only the words that some blokes (there weren't ever any women involved in those publications) chose to make public and use for the purpose of power.
So in my mind God doesn't equal bible ...
I agree with what you are saying.....I wouldn't so much say I am whole-heartedly a christian because I don't neccessarily agree with everything they believe in, but I do not believe that science has everything or anywhere near everything to do with our existence. Do I believe in God? Yes whole-heartedly, do I bash others who don't have the same beliefs as me, never, nor do I think my way is right and there's is wrong. A lot of people do however. I actually share some beliefs with different religions. Might not make sense to some, but that's my beliefs and I will stick by them until I die.
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Tamarory: agh, i dont bother with any religion... i couldnt be arsed worrying about why is it that god loves us so much then why do we feel pain, or why is there wars, or what happens when you die and whatnot.. i live to look out for myself and friends... selfish maybe, but thats just me i suppose.. i dont really care if i get reincarnted as a ant when i die or if i just die.. just live for now goddammit!
One thing to you.....how can you know what pleasure feels like or is, without experiencing pain?! JMO
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greenoctober: One thing to you.....how can you know what pleasure feels like or is, without experiencing pain?! JMO
i dunno.. its not something i stress what little brain cells i have to worry about! i see what your sayin though and hop... ooh! i found a penny on the floor
ah no! really though, its not something i really think about.. i suppose with a set of headphones in my ears nearly all day would stop me from thinking about stuff like that too much.. which im quite happy with!
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keytone: but do you go along with most of this?
Most of it yes
keytone: sorry to go off the subject.
I dont think that was off subject even if it was your input is welcome
keytone: I just wanted to get a better idea of what your ideals were.
an atheist is simply someone that does not believe in the super natural ,after that how they behave is totally up to the individual I personally would implement a lot of what you have posted
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keytone: well, How does this thread feel about Zen Atheism?
does it work for you crotalus_p? or you Trish? when you are back that is.
does it work for you crotalus_p? or you Trish? when you are back that is.
I feel that Zen or Tao Buddhism both, flatten the prison walls which are imposed by belief systems which hold a godhead to be superior to the individual........
The Tao Te Ching and the I Ching both concentrate on correct and becoming behaviour which is beneficial to all in our sphere of influence and consider 'the superior man' (or woman if you prefer) to be one who has achieved and acts in accordance with enlightenment.....
Yep Bettis I like Zen - but have never come across the concept of Zen Atheism - there is no God in the Zen teachings as I understood it
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Lorax68: which kind of faith are you talking about?
Mainly I suppose, the type of faith which is terrified of reason or logic
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FlowerOfTheSun: Hi Hmanim!!! there's another thread called
Why I Like Faith (a thread for believers to share their views in a peaceful setting)
it's on page 2 of the forums ...
Both threads were created to allow people to share their beliefs/views with like minded ...
Why I Like Faith (a thread for believers to share their views in a peaceful setting)
it's on page 2 of the forums ...
Both threads were created to allow people to share their beliefs/views with like minded ...
I know but I can have my say on this thread can I not?
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crotalus_p: With references to new and old testaments I think that is pretty obvious Of course people have morals , but they to not get them from a deity
It is not up to us to prove a negative , if you wish to propose that a god exists then it is up to you to present your evidence for scrutiny
Evolution
It is not up to us to prove a negative , if you wish to propose that a god exists then it is up to you to present your evidence for scrutiny
Evolution
The OT and NT are seperate books. I believe the OT only and that was my point.
Yes people do have morals but if it were not for faith what directions would our morals lead us in? Who would decide if killing is wrong or right etc etc? Look at the sorry state the Earth is in.
You say you are an athiest yet if I proved G-D's existence you would not be. An athiest is someone who will never be convinced. It is not up to me to prove anything because whether you belive in G-D or not is not my concern, I respect whatever you believe.
You say Evolution, this comes from Darwin Theory. Darwins theory was wrong and that is a fact. It was actually bones from a pig, look it up. Secondly there is no concrete evidence to evolution it is thoery and whats more the scientist agree with this.
If the earth were as old as theory suggest then it would have a cooled core by now. Why have comets not wiped us out etc. What holds the Solar Systems together? Where did big bang come from? Astronomically speaking is man not the astronomer? Why do we exist? And why are the conditions for our existence so precise? Does this not suggest an external control?
These are all factors scientist are trying to discover. Have you been following that big bang experiment in Switzerland? They readily admit that most of there science is theories and that most of it is based on probability.
If science were right then we may soon get engulfed by a new dimension with this new big bang but probably you wouldn't be able to gloat. These scientist sound a bit loony to me messing with stuff they do not understand its like giving a 2 year old a nuclear detonator.
Anyway matey I just bring questions to keep you all on your toes as I said earlier I know what I believe and I do not need to speak on behalf of G-D.
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does it work for you crotalus_p? or you Trish? when you are back that is.
explain what you call zen ??