Faith healing and dead children ( Archived) (15)

Jan 22, 2009 1:06 PM CST Faith healing and dead children
yubba
yubbayubbaCaspe, Aragon Spain11 Threads 1,962 Posts
Not interested in religion and no prayer will bring my son back!
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Jan 22, 2009 1:53 PM CST Faith healing and dead children
LILLYLADY
LILLYLADYLILLYLADYunknown, Ohio USA27 Threads 1,293 Posts
I was fired from a job once because I didn't follow a court order and withold liquid food (that was administered through a tube in the stomach)from a woman who had a stroke but was still up and walking around.
Her lawyer was her DPOA-HC and finances. There was substantial money for him if she died. Well, he argued to the courts that this was not the quality of life she would have wanted and the feeding should stop and she be allowed to die. But yet, not to stop the medicines.
The judge granted the order to stop the feeding. Basically, this put me in a position of legal assisted euthanasia.
End of story is....I morally couldn't do it. Especially since Hospice was not even involved yet They became involved days later as she weakened very much to the point where she was near death from the starvation. I gave continuity of care to another nurse.
No.... no one can judge what they think the family of the little girl in question should do. Or the little girl's choice of what to do. It is everyone's choice to live or die with their belief or non belief in God and to act accordingly. We all live with our conscience. As you may know, sometimes even with the best of medicine around... a person's agony is just prolonged and they die in the end. And sometimes...they live. JMO! A real tough call here!!
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Jan 22, 2009 2:21 PM CST Faith healing and dead children
Thank you Lilly for a well thought out post. I was struck by the irony of this pastor Bob advocating a pro choice position in a life or death situation.

I thought this was amazing from the NYT article:
"About 300 children have died in the United States in the last 25 years after medical care was withheld on religious grounds, said Rita Swan, executive director of Children’s Health Care Is a Legal Duty, a group based in Iowa that advocates punishment for parents who do not seek medical help when their children need it. Criminal codes in 30 states, including Wisconsin, provide some form of protection for practitioners of faith healing in cases of child neglect and other matters, protection that Ms. Swan’s group opposes."
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Jan 22, 2009 3:01 PM CST Faith healing and dead children
Sparky55
Sparky55Sparky55Somewhere, Afghanistan48 Threads 1 Polls 2,678 Posts
It does seem like a case of hypocracy though there is a difference. In one case, one is choosing a religeous form of medicine over a modern, scientifically proven medical treatment which may result in death. The other is certain death for an unborn fetus by way of a modern and unnecessary (in most cases) medical procedure. Even so, I do agree with you that people often pick and choose the basic human rights they wish to endorse. Frankly, I think the parents should be able to provide care to their children the way they see fit just as I believe in a woman's right to choose.
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Jan 22, 2009 4:59 PM CST Faith healing and dead children
Sparky55: It does seem like a case of hypocracy though there is a difference. In one case, one is choosing a religeous form of medicine over a modern, scientifically proven medical treatment which may result in death. The other is certain death for an unborn fetus by way of a modern and unnecessary (in most cases) medical procedure. Even so, I do agree with you that people often pick and choose the basic human rights they wish to endorse. Frankly, I think the parents should be able to provide care to their children the way they see fit just as I believe in a woman's right to choose.
But they ought to have to bear the Consequences of their actions as well.
Gross Negligence is Gross Negligence,no matter who has done it.wave
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Jan 22, 2009 5:32 PM CST Faith healing and dead children
Sparky55
Sparky55Sparky55Somewhere, Afghanistan48 Threads 1 Polls 2,678 Posts
Conrad73: But they ought to have to bear the Consequences of their actions as well.
Gross Negligence is Gross Negligence,no matter who has done it.


There's a part of me that agrees with you on this Conrad. I just don't like the idea of the government getting involved with how a parent decides to parent. Personaly, I would never participate in such a practice but I would hold short of forcing someone else to behave in the way I would simply because I feel I was right and they were wrong.

This is an interesting yet sad delima because I believe it would have been in the best interest of the child to receive medical care but where does the government draw the line.
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Jan 23, 2009 4:39 AM CST Faith healing and dead children
Mercedes1
Mercedes1Mercedes1Sydney, New South Wales Australia101 Threads 1 Polls 3,764 Posts
The only chance in hell of being saved is from medicine only!
If their was a god the children would be burying their parents before themselves!angel
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Jan 23, 2009 4:51 AM CST Faith healing and dead children
Sparky55: There's a part of me that agrees with you on this Conrad. I just don't like the idea of the government getting involved with how a parent decides to parent. Personaly, I would never participate in such a practice but I would hold short of forcing someone else to behave in the way I would simply because I feel I was right and they were wrong.

This is an interesting yet sad delima because I believe it would have been in the best interest of the child to receive medical care but where does the government draw the line.
Guess it would probably depend on the Ailment too,but in a Case of acute Appendicitis,or other Medical emergency,I'd say,if the parents make a medical Decision,they ought to have to bear the Consequences for it,as any Doctor would.
Because it would be Gross Negligence,if they make the Wrong call,and there shouldn't be the excuse:God Willed IT,before having tried everything to save that Child.
So there ought to be certain objective rules in Place.dunno wave
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Jan 23, 2009 10:51 AM CST Faith healing and dead children
LILLYLADY
LILLYLADYLILLYLADYunknown, Ohio USA27 Threads 1,293 Posts
Conrad73: Guess it would probably depend on the Ailment too,but in a Case of acute Appendicitis,or other Medical emergency,I'd say,if the parents make a medical Decision,they ought to have to bear the Consequences for it,as any Doctor would.
Because it would be Gross Negligence,if they make the Wrong call,and there shouldn't be the excuse:God Willed IT,before having tried everything to save that Child.
So there ought to be certain objective rules in Place.


I have to agree with you here Conrad. For a parent to ignore giving medical treatment to a child in a case of painful deadly appendicitis, would be tantamount to Gross Negligence by the parents. In this case, I'd have to say that the law should trump the parent's "God willed it" decision to withold life saving medical care. Preserving the life of the child should hold precedence here.
In my student nursing clinical days, my hospital med surg rotation took me to the care of a 16 yr old teenage boy suffering from appendicitis. The pain was unbearable for the young boy and heartbreaking for me to see.He suffered a week because docs didn't know what was wrong. Using my newly learned nursing assessment skills, I told the charge nurse what my suspicions were. The docs followed up and removed the appendix shortly afterwards and he was OK after that.
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Jan 23, 2009 12:07 PM CST Faith healing and dead children
jlw45
jlw45jlw45Moyers, Oklahoma USA66 Threads 1 Polls 15,566 Posts
this all reminds me of a story....

there was a man stranded on a tree, during a rising flood, who had alotta' faith....while he sit on the branch, with the flood rising...a man in a boat came by and said, get in i'm here to help you....the man in the tree said, no, god will save me...so ,the man in the boat left him there....another boat came by and the same thing...the man said no, god will save me...another boat came by and the man said the same thing...well, the flood overtook the man and he drowned...standing before God, he said....i thaught you were going to save me ?....God said...well, i sent you three boats, stupid.....laugh
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Jan 23, 2009 12:22 PM CST Faith healing and dead children
agman
agmanagmanEagle, Idaho USA3,145 Posts
rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing
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Jan 23, 2009 12:24 PM CST Faith healing and dead children
LILLYLADY
LILLYLADYLILLYLADYunknown, Ohio USA27 Threads 1,293 Posts
jlw45: this all reminds me of a story....

there was a man stranded on a tree, during a rising flood, who had alotta' faith....while he sit on the branch, with the flood rising...a man in a boat came by and said, get in i'm here to help you....the man in the tree said, no, god will save me...so ,the man in the boat left him there....another boat came by and the same thing...the man said no, god will save me...another boat came by and the man said the same thing...well, the flood overtook the man and he drowned...standing before God, he said....i thaught you were going to save me ?....God said...well, i sent you three boats, stupid.....



I've heard that story before. Which brings me to agreeing... that many times, the medical help is there, sent by God. I do believe that God created the earth and there is a cure for every illness and it is found on this earth somewhere. And I do believe that God has enabled man to find many of the cures. And more will be coming in the future.
GUESS GOD DOES SEND THE HELP, MAN JUST HAS TO FIND IT AND GET ONBOARD.
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Jan 23, 2009 12:31 PM CST Faith healing and dead children
agman
agmanagmanEagle, Idaho USA3,145 Posts
Well in this day of uncertainity in regards to having child in
the hospital could bring financial ruine to a family, I can
understand why people would opt for religeous cure over medical.
It is simply much cheaper regardless of the outcome. Doctors
don't alsways know the right course of action as they are as
human as anybody(prone to mistakes).
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Jan 23, 2009 12:40 PM CST Faith healing and dead children
jlw45
jlw45jlw45Moyers, Oklahoma USA66 Threads 1 Polls 15,566 Posts
agman: Well in this day of uncertainity in regards to having child in
the hospital could bring financial ruine to a family, I can
understand why people would opt for religeous cure over medical.
It is simply much cheaper regardless of the outcome. Doctors
don't alsways know the right course of action as they are as
human as anybody(prone to mistakes).
its as paul harvey said....10% of the graduating physicians, graduate at the top of their class...........









































what happens to the other 90% ?....professorgrin
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Jan 23, 2009 12:52 PM CST Faith healing and dead children
agman
agmanagmanEagle, Idaho USA3,145 Posts
jlw45: its as paul harvey said....10% of the graduating physicians, graduate at the top of their class...........what happens to the other 90% ?....


Top 10 percent are the best at hiding there mistakes. laugh
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