Should illegal immigrants be issued drivers licenses? (165)
montemonte: If you read my profile and think that I am a lawyer, please be advised I am not a lawyer. My opinion is of a person who was born and raised in the United States. When I was a child my family was very poor. We had a family of two children and two grandparents. If my father didn't plant a huge garden and raise chickens we would have been hungry many days. All the Mexican people need to do who want to come here is go through the process to become legal. Many come here from all over the world. They fill out paperwork and one day they are sworn in to be citizens of the United States.
I don't know where you got that me thinking you are a lawyer from. I also know about being poor and following the legal process to come here for a better life. I also wish all illegals would have followed that process, BUT, they did not, and we have the problem of 12,000,000 illegals now. This thread is about if we should issue drivers licenses to them and asked for opinions. No one should be surprised that that led to a broader discussion.
jac379: An illegal wage is one that is below the minimum wage set by the government. Its only possible to pay below the legal minimum wage if businesses are acting illegally. The people who accept lower than minimum wage do so because they're desperate for anything and have no legal recourse to securing the legal minimum wage.
Of course, paying illegal wages is highly profitable for the country which turns a blind eye to it.
I'm sorry to hear you have no pity for desperate people.
Of course, paying illegal wages is highly profitable for the country which turns a blind eye to it.
I'm sorry to hear you have no pity for desperate people.
Don't be sorry for me Jac. I said I have a heart for people who are desperate but I am also a citizen who believes in the law of the land. There is a way out for illegals but it's not going over the fence.
You either missed my question or ignored it when I asked if you would expect me to abide by the law of Wales if I was in a seriously bad situation.
montemonte: Most of the time they do not bring their children with them but I have seen stories where they did.
So, wouldn't that suggest those who do put their children at risk are desperate and the risk is the lesser of the two evils?
montemonte: When illegals come here to work, they make bigger money then you implied and then they send the money back to Mexico.
How do they do that if they are illegal immigrants? How do you make big money with no legal rights?
montemonte: They work without papers, are paid in cash and don't pay taxes on that cash.
If you earned £20, how much tax would be liable on that? How much tax revenue is actually being lost from less than minimum wages?
montemonte: To answer your question about motivation, they want an to provide for their family but they want to do it the easy way.
How easy would you find it living in abject poverty? If your children were hungry, would you not break the law to feed them?
montemonte: I'm human, I have a heart for people who are living in conditions that are almost inhuman. Have you checked the news. A building collapses and kills hundreds in another country, earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. There are people all over the world who are hurting financially.
So your logic is that because some people are living in inhumane conditions, it doesn't matter if others are living in inhumane conditions? Your heart and mind discriminates between one suffering and another?
montemonte: We had Superstorm Sandy here in the U.S. exactly six months ago yesterday. People are still living in shelters and wondering where their next meal will come from. BUT, they abide by the law and work to dig their way out of what mother nature did to them.
Is it not a freak of nature to be born in a first world country with enough advantages and luck that you are not desperate enough to break the law to survive?
Dadude62: I don't know where you got that me thinking you are a lawyer from.
I also know about being poor and following the legal process to come here for a better life. I also wish all illegals would have followed that process, BUT, they did not, and we have the problem of 12,000,000 illegals now. This thread is about if we should issue drivers licenses to them and asked for opinions. No one should be surprised that that led to a broader discussion.
I also know about being poor and following the legal process to come here for a better life. I also wish all illegals would have followed that process, BUT, they did not, and we have the problem of 12,000,000 illegals now. This thread is about if we should issue drivers licenses to them and asked for opinions. No one should be surprised that that led to a broader discussion.
I got the lawyer idea because I figured since you and I weren't in agreement you probably looked at my profile to see what kind of business I was in.
Well I guess it's obvious that I'm not in agreement to issue a driver's license to people who couldn't even follow the law to get here. IMO, they don't deserve a driver's license but I would give them a hot meal before I put them on the bus.
montemonte: Don't be sorry for me Jac. I said I have a heart for people who are desperate but I am also a citizen who believes in the law of the land. There is a way out for illegals but it's not going over the fence.
You either missed my question or ignored it when I asked if you would expect me to abide by the law of Wales if I was in a seriously bad situation.
You either missed my question or ignored it when I asked if you would expect me to abide by the law of Wales if I was in a seriously bad situation.
I did miss that question.
If you were starving and without shelter, if your family were starving and without shelter, I hope you would have the sense and humanity to break the law in order to protect yourself and your family.
I would consider you an immoral person if you put the law of the land over and above human survival. Not to mention, unutterably cowed, or stupid.
I consider anyone who puts the law of the land over and above humanitarian issues as immoral. Laws can be changed, dead people cannot be brought back to life, or suffering erased.
jac379: So, wouldn't that suggest those who do put their children at risk are desperate and the risk is the lesser of the two evils?How do they do that if they are illegal immigrants? How do you make big money with no legal rights?If you earned £20, how much tax would be liable on that? How much tax revenue is actually being lost from less than minimum wages? How easy would you find it living in abject poverty? If your children were hungry, would you not break the law to feed them?So your logic is that because some people are living in inhumane conditions, it doesn't matter if others are living in inhumane conditions? Your heart and mind discriminates between one suffering and another?Is it not a freak of nature to be born in a first world country with enough advantages and luck that you are not desperate enough to break the law to survive?
I've already responded to these questions. The question about how much tax would be lost.....Dude said there are 12 MILLION illegal immigrants in the U.S.. That's a lot of tax money.
I survived, my family survived and so are many other citizens who aren't breaking the law.
Your attitude is why people want to come here, "Is it not a freak of nature to be born in a first world country with enough advantages and luck that you are not desperate enough to break the law to survive".
It's not a freak of nature to be born in the United States. I'm fortunate to be born in America. "Advantages" are earned through hard work. They don't just fall on your doorstep unless you won the lottery. No matter where someone is born they need to make their own "luck".
montemonte: I got the lawyer idea because I figured since you and I weren't in agreement you probably looked at my profile to see what kind of business I was in.
Well I guess it's obvious that I'm not in agreement to issue a driver's license to people who couldn't even follow the law to get here. IMO, they don't deserve a driver's license but I would give them a hot meal before I put them on the bus.
Well I guess it's obvious that I'm not in agreement to issue a driver's license to people who couldn't even follow the law to get here. IMO, they don't deserve a driver's license but I would give them a hot meal before I put them on the bus.
I did look at your profile a year or so ago,, Not because of a disagreement
I don't recall what business you were in. I haven't looked since. Should I ? I asked this of another poster, are you also in favor of going through the process of deporting 12,000,000 illegals? Is that your solution to the problem?
Illegal immigrants should be issued with a one way ticket back to where they came from.
Dadude62: I did look at your profile a year or so ago,, Not because of a disagreement I don't recall what business you were in. I haven't looked since. Should I ?
I asked this of another poster, are you also in favor of going through the process of deporting 12,000,000 illegals? Is that your solution to the problem?
I asked this of another poster, are you also in favor of going through the process of deporting 12,000,000 illegals? Is that your solution to the problem?
That's a fair question.
Deporting 12 million illegal aliens would mean 12,000,000 million jobs for Americans.
montemonte: That's a fair question.
Deporting 12 million illegal aliens would mean 12,000,000 million jobs for Americans.
Deporting 12 million illegal aliens would mean 12,000,000 million jobs for Americans.
More then that even,,, just think of all the jobs available for people to round them up, bus drivers, just think of the extra profits for oil companies, bounty hunters, extra police, extra jails to be built, lot's of work for lawyers and their employees.
WOW, this could lift us out of our recession.
OH wait,, the farmers would not be very happy, Food costs would skyrocket because they would have to pay a legal wage to their migrant workers, etc, etc, Lot's of businesses might not be happy,,,
I could go on and on,,,,
Dadude62: More then that even,,, just think of all the jobs available for people to round them up, bus drivers, just think of the extra profits for oil companies, bounty hunters, extra police, extra jails to be built, lot's of work for lawyers and their employees.
WOW, this could lift us out of our recession.
OH wait,, the farmers would not be very happy, Food costs would skyrocket because they would have to pay a legal wage to their migrant workers, etc, etc, Lot's of businesses might not be happy,,,
I could go on and on,,,,
WOW, this could lift us out of our recession.
OH wait,, the farmers would not be very happy, Food costs would skyrocket because they would have to pay a legal wage to their migrant workers, etc, etc, Lot's of businesses might not be happy,,,
I could go on and on,,,,
I suspect the real push behind the scenes is to keep the status quo to not upset the applecart,,,
Dadude62: More then that even,,, just think of all the jobs available for people to round them up, bus drivers, just think of the extra profits for oil companies, bounty hunters, extra police, extra jails to be built, lot's of work for lawyers and their employees.
WOW, this could lift us out of our recession.
OH wait,, the farmers would not be very happy, Food costs would skyrocket because they would have to pay a legal wage to their migrant workers, etc, etc, Lot's of businesses might not be happy,,,
I could go on and on,,,,
WOW, this could lift us out of our recession.
OH wait,, the farmers would not be very happy, Food costs would skyrocket because they would have to pay a legal wage to their migrant workers, etc, etc, Lot's of businesses might not be happy,,,
I could go on and on,,,,
I didn't say I would put them in jail (look back to the beginning)
If you want to go the way of sarcasm in this discussion that's fine but that's when you can count me out.
galrads: Considering the large numbers of illegal immigrants presently here in the USA, why is it a contradictions for them to have a permit? To begin with, these people are victims of the USA and Mexico, and it is my belief that they are here primarily to feed themselves and their families.
If they are going to be here, I'd prefer that they are mobilized and able to do so safely and to reduce the numbers receiving public assistance.
A lot of the comments in this thread are more than a bit disgusting to me.. If Congress would listen to me, I'd grant amnesty to all of the non-violent so-called illegals.
If they are going to be here, I'd prefer that they are mobilized and able to do so safely and to reduce the numbers receiving public assistance.
A lot of the comments in this thread are more than a bit disgusting to me.. If Congress would listen to me, I'd grant amnesty to all of the non-violent so-called illegals.
What I wrote is not against inmigrants, it's against nonsensical systems based in restrictions of the legal residence permits, while the policy against illegal aliens doesn't exist.
My country is an example of how the Coast Guards are the wellcoming committee of any african who survives on a floating thing in the Narrow of Gibraltar, while the burocracy create troubles to all foreigner workers who are legally entitled to have a residence card, or a driving license.
Hey, 2. K, nothing wrong with being tenacious, I guess........
Thanks for the clarification. Seems like governments, most everywhere, serves itself instead of who it supposed too.
GUZMAN1: What I wrote is not against inmigrants, it's against nonsensical systems based in restrictions of the legal residence permits, while the policy against illegal aliens doesn't exist.
My country is an example of how the Coast Guards are the wellcoming committee of any african who survives on a floating thing in the Narrow of Gibraltar, while the burocracy create troubles to all foreigner workers who are legally entitled to have a residence card, or a driving license.
My country is an example of how the Coast Guards are the wellcoming committee of any african who survives on a floating thing in the Narrow of Gibraltar, while the burocracy create troubles to all foreigner workers who are legally entitled to have a residence card, or a driving license.
montemonte: That's a fair question.
Deporting 12 million illegal aliens would mean 12,000,000 million jobs for Americans.
Deporting 12 million illegal aliens would mean 12,000,000 million jobs for Americans.
If it wasn't profitable for illegal immigrants to work for illegally low wages, it wouldn't be happening.
jac379: If it wasn't profitable for illegal immigrants to work for illegally low wages, it wouldn't be happening.
What I don't know is why Trade Unions fought during so much time for minimum legal wages and now they doubt in consider the illegals as blacklegs.
I was naturalized U.S. citizen after 23 years living legally in the U.S., so I definitely believed that illegal immigrants should never be allowed to live in the U.S. and should never be issued drivers licenses and/or state ID. When illegal immigrant break U.S. immigration laws, illegal immigrant also break other U.S. laws. Because illegal immigrant break immigration laws, why should illegal immigrant not break driving laws? When people are driving and see that the light is red, why should people stop driving (i.e. obey the law) when illegal immigrants can break U.S. laws? Because illegal immigrant break immigration laws, why should illegal immigrant not break state ID laws (i.e. use their state ID to request assistances from federal government, state government, municipal governing bodies, and other organizations in order to waste U.S. resources which are supposed only for legal U.S. citizen and legal U.S. permanent residents)? I respectfully believed that illegal immigrants should never be allowed to live in the U.S. in the first place and all the children of illegal immigrants who were born in the U.S. should also be considered as illegal immigrants. All illegal immigrants should be deported from the U.S., and all the children of illegal immigrants who were born in the U.S. should also be deported from the U.S. simply because their parents are illegal immigrants.
lalasierra: Any thoughts/opinions?
lovedailylove: I was naturalized U.S. citizen after 23 years living legally in the U.S., so I definitely believed that illegal immigrants should never be allowed to live in the U.S. and should never be issued drivers licenses and/or state ID. When illegal immigrant break U.S. immigration laws, illegal immigrant also break other U.S. laws. Because illegal immigrant break immigration laws, why should illegal immigrant not break driving laws? When people are driving and see that the light is red, why should people stop driving (i.e. obey the law) when illegal immigrants can break U.S. laws? Because illegal immigrant break immigration laws, why should illegal immigrant not break state ID laws (i.e. use their state ID to request assistances from federal government, state government, municipal governing bodies, and other organizations in order to waste U.S. resources which are supposed only for legal U.S. citizen and legal U.S. permanent residents)? I respectfully believed that illegal immigrants should never be allowed to live in the U.S. in the first place and all the children of illegal immigrants who were born in the U.S. should also be considered as illegal immigrants. All illegal immigrants should be deported from the U.S., and all the children of illegal immigrants who were born in the U.S. should also be deported from the U.S. simply because their parents are illegal immigrants.
That's a good idea. Threaten the little children and see if that stops people from coming over the border. Nice one.
lovedailylove: I was naturalized U.S. citizen after 23 years living legally in the U.S., so I definitely believed that illegal immigrants should never be allowed to live in the U.S. and should never be issued drivers licenses and/or state ID. When illegal immigrant break U.S. immigration laws, illegal immigrant also break other U.S. laws. Because illegal immigrant break immigration laws, why should illegal immigrant not break driving laws? When people are driving and see that the light is red, why should people stop driving (i.e. obey the law) when illegal immigrants can break U.S. laws? Because illegal immigrant break immigration laws, why should illegal immigrant not break state ID laws (i.e. use their state ID to request assistances from federal government, state government, municipal governing bodies, and other organizations in order to waste U.S. resources which are supposed only for legal U.S. citizen and legal U.S. permanent residents)? I respectfully believed that illegal immigrants should never be allowed to live in the U.S. in the first place and all the children of illegal immigrants who were born in the U.S. should also be considered as illegal immigrants. All illegal immigrants should be deported from the U.S., and all the children of illegal immigrants who were born in the U.S. should also be deported from the U.S. simply because their parents are illegal immigrants.
Interesting...just a few questions... how are you going to resolve the issue of "illegal immigrants" in US?..... Have you any idea of the number of "illegal immigrants" in US?.. do you know the costs of deporting an "illegal immigrant"?... there are + b11.5 million "illegal immigrants" in US.... by your comments, I am sure yu did not consider all factors.; but just do the math, and see the impracticality of your comment…
jac379: That's a good idea. Threaten the little children and see if that stops people from coming over the border. Nice one.
It is not my job to threaten the little children. It is not my job to stop people from coming over the border. Could you please be so kind to please take a look at what I do for a living? Take care.
lovedailylove: It is not my job to threaten the little children. It is not my job to stop people from coming over the border. Could you please be so kind to please take a look at what I do for a living? Take care.
By saying that all children of illegal immigrants should also be deported, you are making children suffer who had no choice in where they were born.
Its irrelevant what your job is.
It is relevant how you treat children, or propose children should be treated.
lovedailylove: I was naturalized U.S. citizen after 23 years living legally in the U.S., so I definitely believed that illegal immigrants should never be allowed to live in the U.S. and should never be issued drivers licenses and/or state ID. When illegal immigrant break U.S. immigration laws, illegal immigrant also break other U.S. laws. Because illegal immigrant break immigration laws, why should illegal immigrant not break driving laws? When people are driving and see that the light is red, why should people stop driving (i.e. obey the law) when illegal immigrants can break U.S. laws? Because illegal immigrant break immigration laws, why should illegal immigrant not break state ID laws (i.e. use their state ID to request assistances from federal government, state government, municipal governing bodies, and other organizations in order to waste U.S. resources which are supposed only for legal U.S. citizen and legal U.S. permanent residents)? I respectfully believed that illegal immigrants should never be allowed to live in the U.S. in the first place and all the children of illegal immigrants who were born in the U.S. should also be considered as illegal immigrants. All illegal immigrants should be deported from the U.S., and all the children of illegal immigrants who were born in the U.S. should also be deported from the U.S. simply because their parents are illegal immigrants.
You sound like an angry man full of hatred towards “illegal immigrants”!
As a human being, you should show some compassion.
I hope you’re happy in the country you wanted to live in!
Bogart_1960: Interesting...just a few questions... how are you going to resolve the issue of "illegal immigrants" in US?..... Have you any idea of the number of "illegal immigrants" in US?.. do you know the costs of deporting an "illegal immigrant"?... there are + b11.5 million "illegal immigrants" in US.... by your comments, I am sure yu did not consider all factors.; but just do the math, and see the impracticality of your comment…
It is not my job to resolve the issue of "illegal immigrants" in US. It is not my job to know the number of "illegal immigrants" in US. It is not my job to know the costs of deporting an "illegal immigrant". I see that you know more about me than I know about myself. I know that it is illogical for you to know more about me than for me to know about myself, but then you must have been an illogical person. When it comes to math, you obviously have no idea of all my math and probability and statistics graduate studies. Again, it seems that you are willing to show and prove to the world how foolish you really are by thinking that you know more about me that I can know about myself - which you, I, and the rest of the human being have known for certain that it is illogical. It is wonderful to meet an illogical person like you. Take care.
jac379: By saying that all children of illegal immigrants should also be deported, you are making children suffer who had no choice in where they were born.
Its irrelevant what your job is.
It is relevant how you treat children, or propose children should be treated.
Its irrelevant what your job is.
It is relevant how you treat children, or propose children should be treated.
When their parents decided to disobey the laws, it is natural that their children suffer. If I am a father and know that I am about to break the law, I would rather not break the law in order that my children do not have to suffer. When their parents decided to be illegal immigrants, naturally their children had no choice in where they were born. If I am a father and know that I am about to be an illegal immigrant, I would rather have my children born in the country where I live and apply for legal U.S. permanent resident and then legal U.S citizenship with all my children. Yes, a wise father would make a wise decision for his children in where they will be born. However, I see that you are not a wise mother because you obviously do not care to agree in what is right and lawful for you and your children by sympathizing with those illegal immigrants' children.
My job is relevant to my responsibility. Because it is not my job to threaten the little children, it is not my responsibility to threaten the little children. Because it is not my job to stop illegal immigrants from crossing the border, it is not my responsibility to stop illegal immigrants from crossing the border.
It seems that you know more about me than I know about myself. I know it is illogical for you to know more about me than for me to know about myself, so you must have been an illogical person. I never proposed that children should be threaten. Deportation laws exist, and I certainly did not propose deportation laws. It is wonderful to meet an illogical person like you. Take care.
lovedailylove: When their parents decided to disobey the laws, it is natural that their children suffer. If I am a father and know that I am about to break the law, I would rather not break the law in order that my children do not have to suffer. When their parents decided to be illegal immigrants, naturally their children had no choice in where they were born. If I am a father and know that I am about to be an illegal immigrant, I would rather have my children born in the country where I live and apply for legal U.S. permanent resident and then legal U.S citizenship with all my children. Yes, a wise father would make a wise decision for his children in where they will be born. However, I see that you are not a wise mother because you obviously do not care to agree in what is right and lawful for you and your children by sympathizing with those illegal immigrants' children.
My job is relevant to my responsibility. Because it is not my job to threaten the little children, it is not my responsibility to threaten the little children. Because it is not my job to stop illegal immigrants from crossing the border, it is not my responsibility to stop illegal immigrants from crossing the border.
It seems that you know more about me than I know about myself. I know it is illogical for you to know more about me than for me to know about myself, so you must have been an illogical person. I never proposed that children should be threaten. Deportation laws exist, and I certainly did not propose deportation laws. It is wonderful to meet an illogical person like you. Take care.
My job is relevant to my responsibility. Because it is not my job to threaten the little children, it is not my responsibility to threaten the little children. Because it is not my job to stop illegal immigrants from crossing the border, it is not my responsibility to stop illegal immigrants from crossing the border.
It seems that you know more about me than I know about myself. I know it is illogical for you to know more about me than for me to know about myself, so you must have been an illogical person. I never proposed that children should be threaten. Deportation laws exist, and I certainly did not propose deportation laws. It is wonderful to meet an illogical person like you. Take care.
So, if your child was starving to death, or dying of a treatable ailment, you think it moral to watch them suffer, rather than break a law?
lovedailylove: It is not my job to resolve the issue of "illegal immigrants" in US. It is not my job to know the number of "illegal immigrants" in US. It is not my job to know the costs of deporting an "illegal immigrant". I see that you know more about me than I know about myself. I know that it is illogical for you to know more about me than for me to know about myself, but then you must have been an illogical person. When it comes to math, you obviously have no idea of all my math and probability and statistics graduate studies. Again, it seems that you are willing to show and prove to the world how foolish you really are by thinking that you know more about me that I can know about myself - which you, I, and the rest of the human being have known for certain that it is illogical. It is wonderful to meet an illogical person like you. Take care.
Well, i can see some "troubles"... some anger and inferiority complex... but thats me... I dont need to see any other "graduate study".. those are enough for me.. take care and a "tablet" also
abcWOMAN: You sound like an angry man full of hatred towards “illegal immigrants”!
As a human being, you should show some compassion.
I hope you’re happy in the country you wanted to live in!
As a human being, you should show some compassion.
I hope you’re happy in the country you wanted to live in!
I see that you love "illegal immigrants", so why not provide those "illegal immigrants" somewhere to stay in Sweden so that U.S. does not have to deal with "illegal immigrants"?
You seems to know more about me than I know about myself. Since when am I an angry man? Since when am I a man full of hatred towards "illegal immigrants"? I know it is illogical for you to know more about me than for me to know about myself. However, maybe you are an illogical person.
Just because you said "You sound like an angry man full of hatred towards "illegal immigrants", you cannot make me become an angry man. Moreover, you cannot make me become a man full of hatred toward "illegal immigrants".
Last I check, I am still a human being. Yes, I am truly a human being who has shown compassion. Again, I see that you know more about me than I know about myself. Maybe you just love to be an illogical person.
I am definitely very happy in the country I live. If I am not happy, I definitely will move somewhere else. After all, I have dual citizenship of U.S. and Canada. Obtaining legal citizenship of other country is easy, but many people, even yourself included, will rather be sympathizing with those illegal immigrants.
I hope you are happy living in Sweden, and because you sympathize with those illegal immigrants, you should do everything you can to take all illegal immigrants from the U.S. to Sweden so that all the illegal immigrants can be happy in Sweden.
It is wonderful to meet an illogical person like you. Take care.
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No one here is making a "pity story" out of the problem we have. We are discussing the realities here.
Yes we should get our act together too. Sad thing is, our starving people won't have anywhere to run to.
I agree, it is illegal to hire illegal aliens. We should prosecute those who hire illegals, but not the illegal. Why do I say that. Because prosecuting the illegal only makes matters worse for them. That is when we should send them back to wherever they came from.
Prosecuting those who hire illegals would put them in the news but I don't think it would be bad for business because people would just look the other way. There would be a story on the 6:00 o'clock news and that would be the end of it.
But don't we have to draw the line in the sand at some point.