Did the Great Biblical Flood actually occur? (186)
krimsaMiddleton, New Hampshire USA6 Threads 2 Polls 1,345 PostsSantorini
Exactly....if you've seen that caldera, you can only imagine what a huge atomic explosion that must have been.....the tsunami must have been immense...similiar to Krakatoa, but in a more confined geographical space...
krimsa: Santorini
the epic of gilgamesj tells of a big flood???Or was it already mentioned.
Big disaster bigger storytellers perhaps?
Big disaster bigger storytellers perhaps?
Lagoona22: Exactly....if you've seen that caldera, you can only imagine what a huge atomic explosion that must have been.....the tsunami must have been immense...similiar to Krakatoa, but in a more confined geographical space...
Yes this theory has been around for a while and is quite credible. Stress free doesn’t believe it but its true...he just doesn’t like the Minoans because they were Matriarchal. To me, it’s much more intriguing to imagine that Atlantis was a very real culture and people.
krimsa: The alleged "lost city of Atlantis" is actually Minoan Crete. Professor Marinatos was the first to suggest in 1939 that the eruption of Thera, along with the associated effects, was the cause for the catastrophe. The theory argues that the earthquakes destroyed the palaces, tsunamis obliterated the fleet and peers of the Minoans, and the volcanic ash of Thera covered the whole island destroying crops and suffocating animals.
Yeah, I'm sure he's right...not. It was in the Atlantic ocean.
Atlantis started out being one place, but then as the civilization grew, it's influence spread. And so what was considered to be Atlantis started to include more than just the land originally called Atlantis. It's civilization spread so that whoever was in the influence of this sphere was considered to be part of Atlantis.
What is the connection between the Minoan culture and the legend of Atlantis...?
krimsa: Yes this theory has been around for a while and is quite credible. Stress free doesn’t believe it but its true...he just doesn’t like the Minoans because they were Matriarchal. To me, it’s much more intriguing to imagine that Atlantis was a very real culture and people.
Ok, got it...
Lagoona22: What is the connection between the Minoan culture and the legend of Atlantis...?
Lagoona22: What is the connection between the Minoan culture and the legend of Atlantis...?
Crete is now a part of modern Greece and lies just south of Athens across part of the Mediterranean Sea. Before 1500 B.C. it was the seat of the Minoan Empire. The Minoans dominated the eastern Mediterranean with a powerful navy and probably extracted tribute from other surrounding nations. Archaeological excavations have shown that Minoan Crete was probably one of the most sophisticated cultures of its time. It had splendid architecture and art. A code of laws gave women equal legal status to men. Agriculture was highly developed and an extensive irrigation system existed.
Then, seemingly in a blink of an eye, the Minoan Civilization disappeared. Geological studies have shown that on an island we now know as Santorinas, located just ten miles to the north of Crete, a disaster occurred that was very capable of toppling the Minoan state.
Santorinas today is a lush Mediterranean paradise consisting of several islands in a ring shape. Twenty-five hundred years ago, though, it was a single large island with a volcano in the center. The volcano blew itself apart in a massive explosion around 1500 B.C.
We should probably start another thread for this?
GeoManCam: Funny how there is no geologic evidence of such an event. . . Sudden plate shifts? Plates don't suddenly move, they take tens of millions of years to move, billions of years. And yes, this can be proven by geologic/biologic/paleontologic evidence.
Maybe a violent earthquake would cause a sudden shift.
The way Atlantis was situated, it was on two different tectonic plates. And the strain between these two plates got to the point where they had a major earthquake. I mean, very major, to the point that the ground split, it split all the way through the crust and the magma and lava started welling up from it, not from a volcano but from the earthquake.
And the cause of this gigantic earth shift was not natural, it was supposedly caused due to the misuse of crystal energy by a small group of people or high priests.
Most of what you write here is true....a few details....Santorini is no way only 10 miles away....and it is certainly not a "lush paradise"....but these are details. I have been to both islands...But when that volcano blew, it must have been immense....and Knossos stands directly in the path to the south of the shock wave that would have emanated from the blast...
krimsa: Crete is now a part of modern Greece and lies just south of Athens across part of the Mediterranean Sea. Before 1500 B.C. it was the seat of the Minoan Empire. The Minoans dominated the eastern Mediterranean with a powerful navy and probably extracted tribute from other surrounding nations. Archaeological excavations have shown that Minoan Crete was probably one of the most sophisticated cultures of its time. It had splendid architecture and art. A code of laws gave women equal legal status to men. Agriculture was highly developed and an extensive irrigation system existed.
Then, seemingly in a blink of an eye, the Minoan Civilization disappeared. Geological studies have shown that on an island we now know as Santorinas, located just ten miles to the north of Crete, a disaster occurred that was very capable of toppling the Minoan state.
Santorinas today is a lush Mediterranean paradise consisting of several islands in a ring shape. Twenty-five hundred years ago, though, it was a single large island with a volcano in the center. The volcano blew itself apart in a massive explosion around 1500 B.C.
We should probably start another thread for this?
Then, seemingly in a blink of an eye, the Minoan Civilization disappeared. Geological studies have shown that on an island we now know as Santorinas, located just ten miles to the north of Crete, a disaster occurred that was very capable of toppling the Minoan state.
Santorinas today is a lush Mediterranean paradise consisting of several islands in a ring shape. Twenty-five hundred years ago, though, it was a single large island with a volcano in the center. The volcano blew itself apart in a massive explosion around 1500 B.C.
We should probably start another thread for this?
I don't think this event has anything to do with Atlantis. The time frame does not coincide. It appears to be a catastrophe independent of Atlantis. But if the given time frame you gave is incorrect and dates back further, then it's possible that this event happened during the time of Atlantis, but the destruction of Atlantis covered a lot more area.
Beginning with the premise that although there may have been a misinterpretation of the number of zeros in the date for the destruction of the continent of Atlantis and the Atlantean Ancient Culture, a difference of by 8,100 years, the detailed descriptions of other aspects of Atlantis were accurate.
Later on archaeologist, Spyridon Marinatos, and seismologist, A.G. Galanopoulos, bolstered and further substantiated the "Minoan Crete as Atlantis" ideas of Frost. The Minoans had an island empire that stretched throughout the Aegean Sea and included the Cyclades Islands and parts of Greece.
Similar to Plato's Atlantis, Minoan Crete, was a great seafaring country with magnificent courts, palaces, and temples that had dominated mainland Greece.
The ancient Minoans also had an advanced, powerful, and wealthy culture which was comparable to that of the Atlanteans described in Plato's "Dialogues".
Later on archaeologist, Spyridon Marinatos, and seismologist, A.G. Galanopoulos, bolstered and further substantiated the "Minoan Crete as Atlantis" ideas of Frost. The Minoans had an island empire that stretched throughout the Aegean Sea and included the Cyclades Islands and parts of Greece.
Similar to Plato's Atlantis, Minoan Crete, was a great seafaring country with magnificent courts, palaces, and temples that had dominated mainland Greece.
The ancient Minoans also had an advanced, powerful, and wealthy culture which was comparable to that of the Atlanteans described in Plato's "Dialogues".
god is truth and so is his word,whom are we to question god's word?
Aristotle, however, reckoned Plato himself had invented it. "Plato alone made Atlantis emerge from the waves," wrote Aristotle, "and then he submerged it again."
A Heck of a lot conjecture about it.
And it will remain that,until we find objective evidence, other than a few submerged Structures near Bimini that could be anything!
A Heck of a lot conjecture about it.
And it will remain that,until we find objective evidence, other than a few submerged Structures near Bimini that could be anything!
DonDon67: god is truth and so is his word,whom are we to question god's word?
"God's Word?"
Conrad73: Aristotle, however, reckoned Plato himself had invented it. "Plato alone made Atlantis emerge from the waves," wrote Aristotle, "and then he submerged it again."
A Heck of a lot conjecture about it.
And it will remain that,until we find objective evidence, other than a few submerged Structures near Bimini that could be anything!
A Heck of a lot conjecture about it.
And it will remain that,until we find objective evidence, other than a few submerged Structures near Bimini that could be anything!
Bimini does not look human constructed to me. It appears to be a naturally occurring rock formation. I’m still on Minoan Crete. At least until I see something better that has substantially more historical evidence backing it. I don’t think it was UFOs or any of that.
krimsa: Bimini does not look human constructed to me. It appears to be a naturally occurring rock formation. I’m still on Minoan Crete. At least until I see something better that has substantially more historical evidence backing it. I don’t think it was UFOs or any of that.
That is exactly what I am waiting on,Evidence,not Conjecture.Lived down there for a few Donkey's Ages,but so far I only heard Talk,Talk,Talk,nothing solid,except for those formations.
ooby_dooby: I too have the book and read about the first half of it when I'd had just about all I could stand. That book was written before plate techtonics were even confirmed by magnetic pole reversal evidence from core samples which mirror each other on both sides of the Mid-Atlantic ridge.
To show how far we've come, when I was in school we had some out of date textbooks which explained earthquakes by saying they were caused by the weight of skyscrapers concenrated in big cities. That will give you some insight into what was known in Velikovsky's time.
To show how far we've come, when I was in school we had some out of date textbooks which explained earthquakes by saying they were caused by the weight of skyscrapers concenrated in big cities. That will give you some insight into what was known in Velikovsky's time.
Actually, that shows how far AHEAD of his time he really was. He wasn't right about everything obviously, but many modern scientists are coming to his defence. How many have seen "Thunderbolts of the Gods" and "The Electric Universe" on Youtube? Good stuff.
"Velikovsky's Ghost Returns"
rense.com
Velikovsky sought out a corresponding account in ancient Egyptian records, finding a remarkable parallel in a papyrus kept at the University of Leyden Museum, called the Papyrus Ipuwer. The document contains the lamentations of an Egyptian sage in response to a great catastrophe overwhelming Egypt, when the rivers ran red, fire blazed in the sky, and pestilence ravaged the land.
Velikovsky also encountered surprising parallels in Babylonian and Assyrian clay tablets, Vedic poems, Chinese epics, and North American Indian, Maya, Aztec, and Peruvian legends. From these remarkably similar accounts, he constructed a thesis of celestial catastrophe. He concluded that a very large body -- apparently a "comet" -- passed close enough to Earth to violently perturb its axis, as global earthquakes, wind and falling stone decimated early civilizations.
Before Velikovsky could complete his reconstruction, he had to resolve an enigma. He had found that in the accounts of far-flung cultures, the cometary agent of disaster was identified as a planet. And the closer he looked, the more clear it became to him that this planet was Venus: The converging ancient images include the Babylonian "torch-star" Venus and "bearded star" Venus, the Mexican "smoking star" Venus, the Peruvian "long-haired" star Venus, the Egyptian Great Star "scattering its flame in fire" and the widespread imagery of Venus as a flaming serpent or dragon in the sky. In each instance, the cometary language is undeniable, for these were the very symbols of "the comet" in the ancient languages.
By following the evidence, Velikovsky discovered that Venus holds a special place among the world's first astronomers. In both the Old World and the New, ancient stargazers regarded Venus with awe and terror, carefully observing its risings and settings, and claiming the planet to be the cause of world-ending catastrophe. These astronomical traditions, Velikovsky reasoned, must have had roots in a traumatic human experience, though modern science has always assumed that the planets evolved in quiet and undisturbed isolation over billions of years.
DonDon67: god is truth and so is his word,whom are we to question god's word?
I'll question it. Dam straight.
norslyman: Actually, that shows how far AHEAD of his time he really was. He wasn't right about everything obviously, but many modern scientists are coming to his defence. How many have seen "Thunderbolts of the Gods" and "The Electric Universe" on Youtube? Good stuff.
"Velikovsky's Ghost Returns"
rense.com
Velikovsky sought out a corresponding account in ancient Egyptian records, finding a remarkable parallel in a papyrus kept at the University of Leyden Museum, called the Papyrus Ipuwer. The document contains the lamentations of an Egyptian sage in response to a great catastrophe overwhelming Egypt, when the rivers ran red, fire blazed in the sky, and pestilence ravaged the land.
Velikovsky also encountered surprising parallels in Babylonian and Assyrian clay tablets, Vedic poems, Chinese epics, and North American Indian, Maya, Aztec, and Peruvian legends. From these remarkably similar accounts, he constructed a thesis of celestial catastrophe. He concluded that a very large body -- apparently a "comet" -- passed close enough to Earth to violently perturb its axis, as global earthquakes, wind and falling stone decimated early civilizations.
Before Velikovsky could complete his reconstruction, he had to resolve an enigma. He had found that in the accounts of far-flung cultures, the cometary agent of disaster was identified as a planet. And the closer he looked, the more clear it became to him that this planet was Venus: The converging ancient images include the Babylonian "torch-star" Venus and "bearded star" Venus, the Mexican "smoking star" Venus, the Peruvian "long-haired" star Venus, the Egyptian Great Star "scattering its flame in fire" and the widespread imagery of Venus as a flaming serpent or dragon in the sky. In each instance, the cometary language is undeniable, for these were the very symbols of "the comet" in the ancient languages.
By following the evidence, Velikovsky discovered that Venus holds a special place among the world's first astronomers. In both the Old World and the New, ancient stargazers regarded Venus with awe and terror, carefully observing its risings and settings, and claiming the planet to be the cause of world-ending catastrophe. These astronomical traditions, Velikovsky reasoned, must have had roots in a traumatic human experience, though modern science has always assumed that the planets evolved in quiet and undisturbed isolation over billions of years.
What puzzles me,is how you cope in the real World."Velikovsky's Ghost Returns"
rense.com
Velikovsky sought out a corresponding account in ancient Egyptian records, finding a remarkable parallel in a papyrus kept at the University of Leyden Museum, called the Papyrus Ipuwer. The document contains the lamentations of an Egyptian sage in response to a great catastrophe overwhelming Egypt, when the rivers ran red, fire blazed in the sky, and pestilence ravaged the land.
Velikovsky also encountered surprising parallels in Babylonian and Assyrian clay tablets, Vedic poems, Chinese epics, and North American Indian, Maya, Aztec, and Peruvian legends. From these remarkably similar accounts, he constructed a thesis of celestial catastrophe. He concluded that a very large body -- apparently a "comet" -- passed close enough to Earth to violently perturb its axis, as global earthquakes, wind and falling stone decimated early civilizations.
Before Velikovsky could complete his reconstruction, he had to resolve an enigma. He had found that in the accounts of far-flung cultures, the cometary agent of disaster was identified as a planet. And the closer he looked, the more clear it became to him that this planet was Venus: The converging ancient images include the Babylonian "torch-star" Venus and "bearded star" Venus, the Mexican "smoking star" Venus, the Peruvian "long-haired" star Venus, the Egyptian Great Star "scattering its flame in fire" and the widespread imagery of Venus as a flaming serpent or dragon in the sky. In each instance, the cometary language is undeniable, for these were the very symbols of "the comet" in the ancient languages.
By following the evidence, Velikovsky discovered that Venus holds a special place among the world's first astronomers. In both the Old World and the New, ancient stargazers regarded Venus with awe and terror, carefully observing its risings and settings, and claiming the planet to be the cause of world-ending catastrophe. These astronomical traditions, Velikovsky reasoned, must have had roots in a traumatic human experience, though modern science has always assumed that the planets evolved in quiet and undisturbed isolation over billions of years.
He's the copy and paste king...
Proffesor James McCanney comes to his defense. I think Carl Sagan was the nut. I hated that guy.
Martin: I wanted to ask you about Velikovsky. You’re very similar to him in that he was given a hard time, and ridiculed, and it turns out, he was right. My question to you is: How is it, in the year 2003, to be a scientist who thinks outside the box?
McCanney: It’s a fact. There’s no question anymore that Velikovsky was right. And, I think the biggest thing that I want to say about Velikovsky, he was not studying astronomy. He was studying CALENDARS! Velikovsky was studying the calendar. The whole purpose of his study was to create a timeline that would—he was searching for events that were worldwide in scope, in ancient history. He was a very well trained person, much better than most modern Ph.D.s who criticize him, in astronomy.
What the modern astronomers, Carl Sagan and all those people who attacked him, what they never understood is that he wasn’t studying planetary science. He wasn’t interpreting that information that he got, to talk about our science, or comets, or solar systems, or anything else. He was studying calendars. Ancient calendars were clearly changed about 3600 years ago. There was a huge effort, all over the world, and we see it in all of these cities.
I just want to reiterate: Velikovsky was studying calendars, looking for a timeline, an event so massive in world scope that it would be recognized around the world, and he could then take Tibet, and China, and Egypt, and Israel, and all of those ancient lands and put them on a time scale where you could say this is an event.
How we can go forward and backwards in time and build our calendar. That’s what he was doing. And in doing so, he discovered that the event that he was looking for was Venus, being a large comet, and becoming the planet Venus that we know today.
At any rate, I just wanted to make that clear that Velikovsky is very misunderstood, and that a planetary event is what he discovered in his study of calendars.
Martin: I wanted to ask you about Velikovsky. You’re very similar to him in that he was given a hard time, and ridiculed, and it turns out, he was right. My question to you is: How is it, in the year 2003, to be a scientist who thinks outside the box?
McCanney: It’s a fact. There’s no question anymore that Velikovsky was right. And, I think the biggest thing that I want to say about Velikovsky, he was not studying astronomy. He was studying CALENDARS! Velikovsky was studying the calendar. The whole purpose of his study was to create a timeline that would—he was searching for events that were worldwide in scope, in ancient history. He was a very well trained person, much better than most modern Ph.D.s who criticize him, in astronomy.
What the modern astronomers, Carl Sagan and all those people who attacked him, what they never understood is that he wasn’t studying planetary science. He wasn’t interpreting that information that he got, to talk about our science, or comets, or solar systems, or anything else. He was studying calendars. Ancient calendars were clearly changed about 3600 years ago. There was a huge effort, all over the world, and we see it in all of these cities.
I just want to reiterate: Velikovsky was studying calendars, looking for a timeline, an event so massive in world scope that it would be recognized around the world, and he could then take Tibet, and China, and Egypt, and Israel, and all of those ancient lands and put them on a time scale where you could say this is an event.
How we can go forward and backwards in time and build our calendar. That’s what he was doing. And in doing so, he discovered that the event that he was looking for was Venus, being a large comet, and becoming the planet Venus that we know today.
At any rate, I just wanted to make that clear that Velikovsky is very misunderstood, and that a planetary event is what he discovered in his study of calendars.
Does this have anything to do with the alleged Great Flood though or just a "food for thought" kind of thing?
Velikovsky?
Next he'll be bringing Wilhelm Reich and orgone energy into it.
Have fun out there on the psuedoscientific fringe.
Next he'll be bringing Wilhelm Reich and orgone energy into it.
Have fun out there on the psuedoscientific fringe.
norslyman: He had found that in the accounts of far-flung cultures, the cometary agent of disaster was identified as a planet. And the closer he looked, the more clear it became to him that this planet was Venus:
I bet he forgot the first law of thermodynamics.
norslyman: At any rate, I just wanted to make that clear that Velikovsky is very misunderstood, and that a planetary event is what he discovered in his study of calendars.
Hmm, I'd better go and look if I'll find something I can respond with from my calendar.
StressFree: I don't think this event has anything to do with Atlantis. The time frame does not coincide. It appears to be a catastrophe independent of Atlantis. But if the given time frame you gave is incorrect and dates back further, then it's possible that this event happened during the time of Atlantis, but the destruction of Atlantis covered a lot more area.
To understand the effect of such an explosion, scientists have compared it with the most powerful volcanic explosion in historic times. This occurred on the Island of Krakatoa in 1883. There a giant wave, or tsunami, 120 feet high raced across the sea and hit neighboring islands, killing 36,000 people. Ash thrown up into the air blackened the skies for three days. The sound of the explosion was heard as far away as 3,000 miles.
The explosion at Santorinas was four times as powerful as Krakatoa.
The tsunami that hit Crete must have traveled inland for over half a mile, destroying any coastal towns or cities. The great Minoan fleet of ships were all sunk in a few seconds. Overnight the powerful Minoan Empire was crushed and Crete changed to a political backwater. One can hardly imagine a catastrophe more like Plato's description of Atlantis' fate than the destruction of Crete.
Many of the details of the Atlantis story fit with what is now known about Crete. Women had a relatively high political status, both cultures were peaceful, and both enjoyed the unusual sport of ritualistic bullfighting (where an unarmed man wrestled and jumped over a bull).
If the fall of the Minoans is the story of Atlantis, how did Plato get the location and time wrong? Galanopoulos suggested there was a mistake during translation of some of the figures from Egyptian to Greek and an extra zero added. This would mean 900 years ago became 9000, and the distance from Egypt to "Atlantis" went from 250 miles to 2,500. If this is true, Plato (knowing the layout of the Mediterranean Sea) would have been forced to assume the location of the island continent to be squarely in the Atlantic Ocean.
Not everyone accepts the Minoan Crete theory of the story of Atlantis, but until a convincing case can be made for some other place, it, perhaps, remains science's best guess.
According to Plato the temple in the center of Atlantis was dominated by a statue of Poseidon driving six winged horses.
What is your theory then if you do not believe Minoan Crete to be the actual Atlantis? You claim this is impossible yet offer no alternative theory....
you know, i surpose we can all argue till were blue in the face about what happend thousands of years ago,
but unless anyone had any solid proof that there version of what happend was true then all this debabte is going to do is go around in circles,
says me who posted a sience V's bible and do U.F.O exist threads hahahaha,
but,same thing happend with them
but unless anyone had any solid proof that there version of what happend was true then all this debabte is going to do is go around in circles,
says me who posted a sience V's bible and do U.F.O exist threads hahahaha,
but,same thing happend with them
chriss: you know, i surpose we can all argue till were blue in the face about what happend thousands of years ago,
but unless anyone had any solid proof that there version of what happend was true then all this debabte is going to do is go around in circles,
says me who posted a sience V's bible and do U.F.O exist threads hahahaha,
but,same thing happend with them
but unless anyone had any solid proof that there version of what happend was true then all this debabte is going to do is go around in circles,
says me who posted a sience V's bible and do U.F.O exist threads hahahaha,
but,same thing happend with them
You are right - but it is worse than that. One side can't prove it's scientific case coz the evidence is limited and the other side believes an old fairy story book's version of world history. How could there possibly be a rational debate between the two? They're not even speaking the same language
chriss: you know, i surpose we can all argue till were blue in the face about what happend thousands of years ago,
but unless anyone had any solid proof that there version of what happend was true then all this debabte is going to do is go around in circles,
says me who posted a sience V's bible and do U.F.O exist threads hahahaha,
but,same thing happend with them
but unless anyone had any solid proof that there version of what happend was true then all this debabte is going to do is go around in circles,
says me who posted a sience V's bible and do U.F.O exist threads hahahaha,
but,same thing happend with them
Its quite clear there is no evidence to support the biblical world flood theory....
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