Health Care Reform Poll (88)
lookin4ubabe: OMG! What world are you living in?? Seriously, health care reform has been discussed for years and years and your statistics of 95% is sooooo false! No wonder your not making any sense...you need to research your facts!! And adding a public option will create a competitive market and eliminate the monopoly that now exists...are you for real? No, come, your messing with us right?
I guess I really do have to explain this again...
Health care industry employs around 2.5 million people.
Govt taxes only top 5% of earners meaning that 95% of people will now have "free" health care. Instead of paying for health care through their employers, 95% of America goes on the "Public option".
Health care industry is dead, because it can't compete with "Free" health care.
2.5 million people lose their jobs.
Unemployment rate skyrockets creating another "Great recession."
And yes, 95% of Americans have health coverage.
Once again, I ask you, name a group of people that don't have it!
lookin4ubabe: OMG! What world are you living in?? Seriously, health care reform has been discussed for years and years and your statistics of 95% is sooooo false! No wonder your not making any sense...you need to research your facts!! And adding a public option will create a competitive market and eliminate the monopoly that now exists...are you for real? No, come, your messing with us right?
You're probably one of those people who think that Social Security is still a good idea too, aren't you?
lookin4ubabe: Exactly, it is not an Obama issue, it is an issue for health and well being of the American people
Look, I understand that there are people out there who can't afford a car. But do I think that the Government should take over the car industry and tax the super wealthy to pay for cars that poor people can drive? Isn't that why we have public transportation?
This is kind of like a metaphore.
lerald: I guess I really do have to explain this again...
Health care industry employs around 2.5 million people.
Govt taxes only top 5% of earners meaning that 95% of people will now have "free" health care. Instead of paying for health care through their employers, 95% of America goes on the "Public option".
Health care industry is dead, because it can't compete with "Free" health care.
2.5 million people lose their jobs.
Unemployment rate skyrockets creating another "Great recession."
And yes, 95% of Americans have health coverage.
Once again, I ask you, name a group of people that don't have it!
Health care industry employs around 2.5 million people.
Govt taxes only top 5% of earners meaning that 95% of people will now have "free" health care. Instead of paying for health care through their employers, 95% of America goes on the "Public option".
Health care industry is dead, because it can't compete with "Free" health care.
2.5 million people lose their jobs.
Unemployment rate skyrockets creating another "Great recession."
And yes, 95% of Americans have health coverage.
Once again, I ask you, name a group of people that don't have it!
First of all the 2.5 million wont lose their jobs, not with an increased patient pool. The health care will not be free, only to Americans that fall below a certain income level. Unemployment will not skyrocket because new jobs will be created due to increase demand. 1 in 5 people do not have health care and that is a conservative estimate, so I would say those people are the middle class...friends and neighbors of both you and I. The insurance companies have been raping us far to long, we need a competitive edge to keep them honest.
lerald: Well, I like to question what everything costs from my Government!
What I'm saying is - leave the Obama healthcare issue out for a minute , and look at the real reason it's so expensive.
lerald: First of all, I never said I wanted to change military health care. Someone was asking me about it. And don't act like you know what you're talking about when it comes to Chain of Command.
Second of all, have you noticed how no one ever talked about health care problems until Obama became president? This has everything to do with politics; nothing to do with a government caring for it's people. This is just another ploy to get more Americans dependent on the federal government. 95% of Americans have health insurance. Can you even tell me what group of Americans don't have it?? The poor have medicaid. The elderly have Medicare, and working fools have PRIVATE health insurance.
I agree that we need some sort of Reform, but a "Public Option" only kills the Private insurance industry and makes people more dependent on big government.
Second of all, have you noticed how no one ever talked about health care problems until Obama became president? This has everything to do with politics; nothing to do with a government caring for it's people. This is just another ploy to get more Americans dependent on the federal government. 95% of Americans have health insurance. Can you even tell me what group of Americans don't have it?? The poor have medicaid. The elderly have Medicare, and working fools have PRIVATE health insurance.
I agree that we need some sort of Reform, but a "Public Option" only kills the Private insurance industry and makes people more dependent on big government.
VERY well said!lerald: You're probably one of those people who think that Social Security is still a good idea too, aren't you?
Yup, I do! If we didn't have it, we would have so many suffering seniors right now and that would put a tremendous burden on all of us.And judging from your comments, I bet you probably haven't even read the bill have you?
lerald: Look, I understand that there are people out there who can't afford a car. But do I think that the Government should take over the car industry and tax the super wealthy to pay for cars that poor people can drive? Isn't that why we have public transportation?
This is kind of like a metaphore.
This is kind of like a metaphore.
A car is not needed to ensure quality of life and healthy citizens are the backbone of this country! Kind of a weird comparison!! Ahh...yes, we do have public transportation...shouldn't we have public health care...I believe it is a fundamental necessity!!
lookin4ubabe: Exactly, it is not an Obama issue, it is an issue for health and well being of the American people
Regardless of whether or not the government takes over healthcare - the problem still remains ........
If you and I don't argue what the hospitals and doctors charge for services then it'll continue to increase in cost.
The government isn't going to step on their buddy's Insurance companies ) toes and regulate them . They're gonna make it look like they are though .
Does this make any sense ?
lerald: Look, I understand that there are people out there who can't afford a car. But do I think that the Government should take over the car industry and tax the super wealthy to pay for cars that poor people can drive? Isn't that why we have public transportation?
This is kind of like a metaphore.
This is kind of like a metaphore.
I have late -breaking news for ya ......that one has already happened ......
jvaski: I have late -breaking news for ya ......that one has already happened ......
It's disgusting isn't it? Poor people should walk. Only rich people can afford the luxury of a car. There'd be less obesity in the USA if only poor people would walk everywhere. Rich people can afford to join a gym.
lookin4ubabe: OMG! What world are you living in?? Seriously, health care reform has been discussed for years and years and your statistics of 95% is sooooo false! No wonder your not making any sense...you need to research your facts!! And adding a public option will create a competitive market and eliminate the monopoly that now exists...are you for real? No, come, your messing with us right?
You're the dreamer.
If you know your history, when income taxes began, they claimed it would only affect the very rich. And people supported the idea of taxing the rich. But that isn't how it turned out is it.
The rich pay less taxes than the poor.
Because they have legal teams that know all the legal loopholse put there for exactly that purpose.
I remember one year when HL Hunt, the richest man in America at the time, paid less taxes than I did.
No politician, especially not one funded by the CFR (bankers) is going to tax the rich and give freebies to the poor. That's just a carrot on a stick to get people to support socialized medicine.
Once it's in place they can change the rules at the drop of a hat, and change them they will.
Here in France the first few years of socialized medicine the people loved it. It seemed like medicine was almost "free". But they were just running up a big debt. Then they changed the rules and only covered 2/3 of medical costs and they also stopped covering many things, people had to take complementary insurance to pay for everything the SECU wouldn't pay for and "surprise" people were spending as much as before for insurance BESIDES the SECU taxes taken directly out of people's pay. What's more they added a special surcharge to pay back the deficit.
So the result is that healthcare costs are considerably higher under socialized medicine than they were when it was private.
And there is no question that, at the same time, the quality of care has gone way down.
As their fees are controlled, General Practitioners and hospitals are poor. Hospitals have to cheat in all sorts of ways just to make ends meet (this was explained to me by a hospital administrator when I caught the hospital cheating on the insurance claim for my hospitalization). Of course the insurance companies make up for the cheating by higher rates for
the complementary insurance.
It is ALWAYS the consumer who pays for everything. Everybody else up the food chain just passes costs down.
Healthcare will always be paid for by the poor.
Adding the cost of an insurance company only increases the cost to the poor because the company not only has operating costs but also profits that come out of the consumer's pockets.
But when it comes to waste, inefficiency, and corruption, the insurance companies can't possibly compete with the state. After all the insurance companies, greedy as they are, have to compete with each other.
People need to realize that under socialized medicine the state profits when retirees die right away.
Oops, sorry Lookin4Ubabe, that post was intended for the poster to whom you were responding and not for you.
I was answering the quote in your post, not your post.
That's what happens when I can't sleep at night.
I was answering the quote in your post, not your post.
That's what happens when I can't sleep at night.
jvaski: Maybe we should all contract directly with doctors and hospitals and bypass the insurance companies ?
That's exactly what happens in poor countries where nobody has insurance and it's great.
Medical costs are low and care quality is high.
Only the very poor can't afford care and they are taken care of by religious charities.
I'm all for cutting out the middlemen, including insurance companies and ESPECIALLY the state.
RayfromUSA: That's exactly what happens in poor countries where nobody has insurance and it's great.
Medical costs are low and care quality is high.
Only the very poor can't afford care and they are taken care of by religious charities.
I'm all for cutting out the middlemen, including insurance companies and ESPECIALLY the state.
Medical costs are low and care quality is high.
Only the very poor can't afford care and they are taken care of by religious charities.
I'm all for cutting out the middlemen, including insurance companies and ESPECIALLY the state.
Yea that's right ........and we're all gonna be poor here too if something isn't done to control medical costs.
One trend I see is hospitals are buying up doctor's practices all around them so they can control what the doctors prescribe.
The hospital owned doctors are then told to send everyone to their hospitals for tons of unnecessary imaging and lab work - where they're charged four times what it costs at an outpatient imaging center or blood lab. Same for surgeries.........
It's a scam which is difficult to avoid , and it's totally unregulated......
lookin4ubabe: Yup, I do! If we didn't have it, we would have so many suffering seniors right now and that would put a tremendous burden on all of us.And judging from your comments, I bet you probably haven't even read the bill have you?
Social Security is one of the biggest blunders in American Social experimentism. It's set to be bankrupt in 2037. That means that I'll be paying into it my whole life and won't see a dime of it when I retire. So, as it turns out, it wasn't such a good idea.
I guess that's why Obama wants to kill off all of the old people, so he can claim that he fixed the Social Security problem too! lol.
RayfromUSA: You're the dreamer.
If you know your history, when income taxes began, they claimed it would only affect the very rich. And people supported the idea of taxing the rich. But that isn't how it turned out is it.
The rich pay less taxes than the poor.
Because they have legal teams that know all the legal loopholse put there for exactly that purpose.
I remember one year when HL Hunt, the richest man in America at the time, paid less taxes than I did.
No politician, especially not one funded by the CFR (bankers) is going to tax the rich and give freebies to the poor. That's just a carrot on a stick to get people to support socialized medicine.
Once it's in place they can change the rules at the drop of a hat, and change them they will.
Here in France the first few years of socialized medicine the people loved it. It seemed like medicine was almost "free". But they were just running up a big debt. Then they changed the rules and only covered 2/3 of medical costs and they also stopped covering many things, people had to take complementary insurance to pay for everything the SECU wouldn't pay for and "surprise" people were spending as much as before for insurance BESIDES the SECU taxes taken directly out of people's pay. What's more they added a special surcharge to pay back the deficit.
So the result is that healthcare costs are considerably higher under socialized medicine than they were when it was private.
And there is no question that, at the same time, the quality of care has gone way down.
As their fees are controlled, General Practitioners and hospitals are poor. Hospitals have to cheat in all sorts of ways just to make ends meet (this was explained to me by a hospital administrator when I caught the hospital cheating on the insurance claim for my hospitalization). Of course the insurance companies make up for the cheating by higher rates for
the complementary insurance.
It is ALWAYS the consumer who pays for everything. Everybody else up the food chain just passes costs down.
Healthcare will always be paid for by the poor.
Adding the cost of an insurance company only increases the cost to the poor because the company not only has operating costs but also profits that come out of the consumer's pockets.
But when it comes to waste, inefficiency, and corruption, the insurance companies can't possibly compete with the state. After all the insurance companies, greedy as they are, have to compete with each other.
People need to realize that under socialized medicine the state profits when retirees die right away.
If you know your history, when income taxes began, they claimed it would only affect the very rich. And people supported the idea of taxing the rich. But that isn't how it turned out is it.
The rich pay less taxes than the poor.
Because they have legal teams that know all the legal loopholse put there for exactly that purpose.
I remember one year when HL Hunt, the richest man in America at the time, paid less taxes than I did.
No politician, especially not one funded by the CFR (bankers) is going to tax the rich and give freebies to the poor. That's just a carrot on a stick to get people to support socialized medicine.
Once it's in place they can change the rules at the drop of a hat, and change them they will.
Here in France the first few years of socialized medicine the people loved it. It seemed like medicine was almost "free". But they were just running up a big debt. Then they changed the rules and only covered 2/3 of medical costs and they also stopped covering many things, people had to take complementary insurance to pay for everything the SECU wouldn't pay for and "surprise" people were spending as much as before for insurance BESIDES the SECU taxes taken directly out of people's pay. What's more they added a special surcharge to pay back the deficit.
So the result is that healthcare costs are considerably higher under socialized medicine than they were when it was private.
And there is no question that, at the same time, the quality of care has gone way down.
As their fees are controlled, General Practitioners and hospitals are poor. Hospitals have to cheat in all sorts of ways just to make ends meet (this was explained to me by a hospital administrator when I caught the hospital cheating on the insurance claim for my hospitalization). Of course the insurance companies make up for the cheating by higher rates for
the complementary insurance.
It is ALWAYS the consumer who pays for everything. Everybody else up the food chain just passes costs down.
Healthcare will always be paid for by the poor.
Adding the cost of an insurance company only increases the cost to the poor because the company not only has operating costs but also profits that come out of the consumer's pockets.
But when it comes to waste, inefficiency, and corruption, the insurance companies can't possibly compete with the state. After all the insurance companies, greedy as they are, have to compete with each other.
People need to realize that under socialized medicine the state profits when retirees die right away.
Good point! I like you!
jvaski: What I'm saying is - leave the Obama healthcare issue out for a minute , and look at the real reason it's so expensive.
The real reason the cost is rising so fast is two fold. 1) The doctors are performing numerous unnecessary procedures, and charging the insurance companies who don't question the doctor's words; they just pay out. This is called fleecing of the insurance companies by doctors. 2) Malpractice lawyers are some greedy some umma beaches. They also fleece the insurance companies when they have to pay out millions upon millions of dollars for a doctors mistakes. Reform those two and watch the cost's plummet.
I have health insurance and I support reform, but not reform that includes a government socialist program and constrains me as a doctor from delivering care or doing as my education and experience has trained me for.
Entering patient data and treatment into a database so that I have to seek that database for treatment guidelines is not what will control health care costs.
We need meaningful tort reform, and we need less government intervention, not more.
Entering patient data and treatment into a database so that I have to seek that database for treatment guidelines is not what will control health care costs.
We need meaningful tort reform, and we need less government intervention, not more.
DazzleYou: We need meaningful tort reform, and we need less government intervention, not more.
But isn't less government intervention what nearly got us into The Great Depression II here just recently? Less government doesn't necessarily mean better government, nor does more government necessarily mean better or worse government.
The devil is in the details.
My own mother is paying some $1200 a month now for her health insurance premiums, complains constantly that she is running out of money and that her premiums just keep going up, but is dead set against any health care reform legislation... I already cannot afford health care premiums, and I make pretty good money doing software programming. So, point is... if something isn't done and soon, there will be fewer and fewer people able to afford health insurance and the insurance companies will have to charge more and more to those who still can afford it, which is totally unsustainable and the whole system falls apart anyhows!
ps. We already have a governemnt socialist program and it's been with us since FDR's administration back in the 1930's (the most popular President in American history I'd argue, as he's the only 1 elected for 4 terms in a row which says something IMO)... it's called "Social Security". The pure capitalist system boat sank already, get over it! LOL!
- Michael ("American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God!")
lookin4ubabe: First of all the 2.5 million wont lose their jobs, not with an increased patient pool. The health care will not be free, only to Americans that fall below a certain income level. Unemployment will not skyrocket because new jobs will be created due to increase demand. 1 in 5 people do not have health care and that is a conservative estimate, so I would say those people are the middle class...friends and neighbors of both you and I. The insurance companies have been raping us far to long, we need a competitive edge to keep them honest.
Damn good points!
Thanks.
- Michael ("American by birh, Texan by the Grace of God!")
Michael211_2000:
ps. We already have a governemnt socialist program and it's been with us since FDR's administration back in the 1930's (the most popular President in American history I'd argue, as he's the only 1 elected for 4 terms in a row which says something IMO)... it's called "Social Security". The pure capitalist system boat sank already, get over it! LOL!
- Michael ("American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God!")
ps. We already have a governemnt socialist program and it's been with us since FDR's administration back in the 1930's (the most popular President in American history I'd argue, as he's the only 1 elected for 4 terms in a row which says something IMO)... it's called "Social Security". The pure capitalist system boat sank already, get over it! LOL!
- Michael ("American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God!")
You have got to be kidding me right? First of all, FDR was elected for four terms because we were in the middle of WW2. Pick up a history book. And second of all, Social Security will be bankrupt by 2037, 5 years before I plan on retiring, and 10 years before I'm eligible for S.S. benefits. So S.S. is the biggest Social experiment to fail!
Just imagine if you can stop paying into Social Security, and take the extra money you have every month and put it into a retirement fund...... Betcha'd have a lot more money when you'd retire!!!
lerald: You have got to be kidding me right? First of all, FDR was elected for four terms because we were in the middle of WW2. Pick up a history book. And second of all, Social Security will be bankrupt by 2037, 5 years before I plan on retiring, and 10 years before I'm eligible for S.S. benefits. So S.S. is the biggest Social experiment to fail!
Just imagine if you can stop paying into Social Security, and take the extra money you have every month and put it into a retirement fund...... Betcha'd have a lot more money when you'd retire!!!
Just imagine if you can stop paying into Social Security, and take the extra money you have every month and put it into a retirement fund...... Betcha'd have a lot more money when you'd retire!!!
A hell of alot more. Its actually a great comparison. Think of living only on the 900 a month from social security. You might get enough food but little else. So it is with government health care, it will be universally poor care for all.
Why cannot any of you understand that the HMO was created by the government? The tort system regulated by government? The doctors and hospitals regualted by government? The problem is government, and their solution may kill us all..literally!
Do any of you also realise that second only to government the other cause of cost always rising is that our waistbands are always expanding? Lay off the processed food and sugar and you wouldnt need to go to the doctor all the time and take so many dman pills and cost would go down. Im in good shape, but my risk gets pooled with a bunch of a@@holes riding around in scooters at winn dixie filling their cart with diet coke and honey buns, no wonder it costs too much!
How about make it legal to allow them to set the rate based on your risk in all cases. If you eat and dont exercise for 20 years I dont care if you dont get insurance.
We need to get rid of insurance period except for catastrophic incidence. Imagine if homeowners covered paint, a/c filters, lightbulbs, etc. how much it would cost?
I have medicare, I've had it for a long time, but there are many people who need it
Brewer: Im in good shape, but my risk gets pooled with a bunch of a@@holes riding around in scooters at winn dixie filling their cart with diet coke and honey buns, no wonder it costs too much!
Between the Segway and those power scooters, it's little wonder that Americans are so badly obese... nobody moves on their own anymore.
A friend of mine who's been way too heavy got a powered wheelchair 2 years ago.... and just got heavier and heavier scooting around in the thing (he won't even consider gastric bypass surgery). This past summer his weight got so bad it started compressing the disks in his lower back and was pinching off nerves in his spinal cord... he started to lose all sensation in his lower legs and had to go in for emergency back surgery to relieve the pressure on his lower spine! And he still won't consider any kind of gastric surgery after nearly becoming paralyzed from his nearly 1/4 tonne of body weight! Geez!
He has insurance though, so the emergency back surgery and all the therapy he's been getting all summer long was fully covered... heck the isurance gave him the power wheelchair to begin with! When I 1st met him some 4 years ago he was walking on his own with a cane... then he got into a wheelchair and just went downhill from there. It's stupid, honest.
Regards!
- Michael ("American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God!")
Michael211_2000: Between the Segway and those power scooters, it's little wonder that Americans are so badly obese... nobody moves on their own anymore.
A friend of mine who's been way too heavy got a powered wheelchair 2 years ago.... and just got heavier and heavier scooting around in the thing (he won't even consider gastric bypass surgery). This past summer his weight got so bad it started compressing the disks in his lower back and was pinching off nerves in his spinal cord... he started to lose all sensation in his lower legs and had to go in for emergency back surgery to relieve the pressure on his lower spine! And he still won't consider any kind of gastric surgery after nearly becoming paralyzed from his nearly 1/4 tonne of body weight! Geez!
He has insurance though, so the emergency back surgery and all the therapy he's been getting all summer long was fully covered... heck the isurance gave him the power wheelchair to begin with! When I 1st met him some 4 years ago he was walking on his own with a cane... then he got into a wheelchair and just went downhill from there. It's stupid, honest.
Regards!
- Michael ("American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God!")
A friend of mine who's been way too heavy got a powered wheelchair 2 years ago.... and just got heavier and heavier scooting around in the thing (he won't even consider gastric bypass surgery). This past summer his weight got so bad it started compressing the disks in his lower back and was pinching off nerves in his spinal cord... he started to lose all sensation in his lower legs and had to go in for emergency back surgery to relieve the pressure on his lower spine! And he still won't consider any kind of gastric surgery after nearly becoming paralyzed from his nearly 1/4 tonne of body weight! Geez!
He has insurance though, so the emergency back surgery and all the therapy he's been getting all summer long was fully covered... heck the isurance gave him the power wheelchair to begin with! When I 1st met him some 4 years ago he was walking on his own with a cane... then he got into a wheelchair and just went downhill from there. It's stupid, honest.
Regards!
- Michael ("American by birth, Texan by the Grace of God!")
Thats why I am a proponent of a non-government solution.
Why cant all these people who want everyone to have insurance start a non-profit and buy it in bulk for them, keep government out of it. Reduce the regulatory nightmare and get the courts fixed. Loser pays for the lawsuit.
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Exactly, it is not an Obama issue, it is an issue for health and well being of the American people