Trouble in Wisconsin Unions yea or nay (157)
Unions block progress, simple as that. If you need a Union to fight for your job, then you are not able to fight for your job on your own or you don't believe in the system of free enterprise.
Unions are Socialist and only want your fees to line their pockets.
I know that some of us don't take the time to look at links or videos. We have all better start doing that to understand better.
How the Jones Act and Labor Unions are Blocking...
Richard Riordan on Unions and Dysfunctional LA...
Unions are Socialist and only want your fees to line their pockets.
I know that some of us don't take the time to look at links or videos. We have all better start doing that to understand better.
How the Jones Act and Labor Unions are Blocking...
Richard Riordan on Unions and Dysfunctional LA...
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Right to work is better. Have the union but do not force a person to join just to have a job. Want to work work and let the person decide.
JMO
JMO
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Actractorguy: Right to work is better. Have the union but do not force a person to join just to have a job. Want to work work and let the person decide.
JMO
JMO
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These are recent videos. Right-to Work Laws are only in a few of our States. We should only control our own destiny at work and not pay for Unions to do it for us.
Unions Destroying American Economy. Non-Union (...
Cash-Strapped States Look To Unions
Immigration Song - Bring us your poor...
The truth about so called Right-to Work Laws!
Unions Destroying American Economy. Non-Union (...
Cash-Strapped States Look To Unions
Immigration Song - Bring us your poor...
The truth about so called Right-to Work Laws!
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myway.com
pretty good read:
By DAVID A. LIEB and SAM HANANEL
Republicans who swept into power in state capitols this year with promises to cut spending and bolster the business climate now are beginning to usher in a new era of labor relations that could result in the largest reduction of power in decades for public employee unions.
But as massive public protests and legislative boycotts in Wisconsin this week have shown, the Republican charge can be fraught with risk and unpredictable turns as politicians try to transform campaign ideas into action.
The question GOP governors and lawmakers are now facing is exactly how far they can go without encountering a backlash. Do they merely extract more money from school teachers, prison guards and office workers to help ease their states' budget problems? Or do they go at the very core of union power by abolishing the workers' right to bargain collectively? Do they try to impose changes by steamrolling the opposition, or by coming to the bargaining table?
"The consequences will be rolling forth for many, many years," said James Gregory, director of Center for Labor Studies at the University of Washington. "The battle lines have been drawn and will be replicated around the country. This is going to be very tough for unions and public sector employees."
In Wisconsin, new Republican Gov. Scott Walker is going for it all - the elimination of collective bargaining rights for public employees plus sharp increases in their health care and pension payments. His plan advanced quickly to the Republican-led Senate, despite several days of protests that drew tens of thousands of demonstrators to the Capitol. Then Senate Democrats suddenly fled the state Thursday, bringing the legislative process to a halt.
Wisconsin was the first battleground. But it is unlikely to be the last.
pretty good read:
By DAVID A. LIEB and SAM HANANEL
Republicans who swept into power in state capitols this year with promises to cut spending and bolster the business climate now are beginning to usher in a new era of labor relations that could result in the largest reduction of power in decades for public employee unions.
But as massive public protests and legislative boycotts in Wisconsin this week have shown, the Republican charge can be fraught with risk and unpredictable turns as politicians try to transform campaign ideas into action.
The question GOP governors and lawmakers are now facing is exactly how far they can go without encountering a backlash. Do they merely extract more money from school teachers, prison guards and office workers to help ease their states' budget problems? Or do they go at the very core of union power by abolishing the workers' right to bargain collectively? Do they try to impose changes by steamrolling the opposition, or by coming to the bargaining table?
"The consequences will be rolling forth for many, many years," said James Gregory, director of Center for Labor Studies at the University of Washington. "The battle lines have been drawn and will be replicated around the country. This is going to be very tough for unions and public sector employees."
In Wisconsin, new Republican Gov. Scott Walker is going for it all - the elimination of collective bargaining rights for public employees plus sharp increases in their health care and pension payments. His plan advanced quickly to the Republican-led Senate, despite several days of protests that drew tens of thousands of demonstrators to the Capitol. Then Senate Democrats suddenly fled the state Thursday, bringing the legislative process to a halt.
Wisconsin was the first battleground. But it is unlikely to be the last.
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When I worked for the International Company Avery Dennison (12 years) Unions were not acceptable. They were protesting with signs right outside of our doors.
We all decided to not be unionized and that we could deal with our own work problems with management and it worked.
Result: We all made about $22.00 an hour without Union fees or intervention.
We all decided to not be unionized and that we could deal with our own work problems with management and it worked.
Result: We all made about $22.00 an hour without Union fees or intervention.
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Hey, JH, are you guys serious?
The biggest expenses in state government(s) include education, medicaid, prisons, transportation, unemployment compensation; not salaries/benefits. Sure, fat exists elsewhere but it's not with the majority of government employees, who are also tax payers. We bail out wall street and then target public employees for their efforts to provide police and fire services and teachers and prison guards etc.
I say let all the prisoners in America free, forget snow and ice removal, forget clean water and waste disposal and sewer maintenance. Our kids can get home schooling, forget the disabled and abandoned, let the environment go back to the dirty and unhealthy 60's style and fire all the traffic controllers again at the same time. We don't need any of them. Instead, all we need to do is pay for grander parties for the bankers! Down with the little guy!
The biggest expenses in state government(s) include education, medicaid, prisons, transportation, unemployment compensation; not salaries/benefits. Sure, fat exists elsewhere but it's not with the majority of government employees, who are also tax payers. We bail out wall street and then target public employees for their efforts to provide police and fire services and teachers and prison guards etc.
I say let all the prisoners in America free, forget snow and ice removal, forget clean water and waste disposal and sewer maintenance. Our kids can get home schooling, forget the disabled and abandoned, let the environment go back to the dirty and unhealthy 60's style and fire all the traffic controllers again at the same time. We don't need any of them. Instead, all we need to do is pay for grander parties for the bankers! Down with the little guy!
johnaustin123: This is a simple vote about what is happening in Wisconsin, USA and spreading to other States like Ohio, NJ… Demonstrations in Wisconsin about Teachers Unions and other State employees like Police and Fire workers.
Which side of the argument is right?
1) Teachers work more hours than we think to teach students. They have already given up a lot with pay and health care expenses.
2) Our States can’t afford to continue the status quo at the level that we see now continuing with Union Rules.
My view is that Teacher’s, Law Enforcement Officers and Firemen should be under the same constraints as our normal Citizens…keeping or lose your job depending on performance.
Governor Walker is really only asking that Tenure among teachers be dependant and changed to a new rating system. Tenure can only be obtained by a high satisfactory rating of (3) consecutive years.
There is much going on with this story, but let me tell you my experience with Unions:
My Father was a good Union worker and a member of Local 639 (Painters Union) in 1969 as a sheet metal worker in the neon sign business. Dad decided that he wanted to start his own sign business. He wanted to go non-union because he could not at that time afford the dues.
He started very successfully, but the Union didn’t like it. They bombed his shop and then set it on fire later. The stress was so much on Dad that had a heart attack.
Which side of the argument is right?
1) Teachers work more hours than we think to teach students. They have already given up a lot with pay and health care expenses.
2) Our States can’t afford to continue the status quo at the level that we see now continuing with Union Rules.
My view is that Teacher’s, Law Enforcement Officers and Firemen should be under the same constraints as our normal Citizens…keeping or lose your job depending on performance.
Governor Walker is really only asking that Tenure among teachers be dependant and changed to a new rating system. Tenure can only be obtained by a high satisfactory rating of (3) consecutive years.
There is much going on with this story, but let me tell you my experience with Unions:
My Father was a good Union worker and a member of Local 639 (Painters Union) in 1969 as a sheet metal worker in the neon sign business. Dad decided that he wanted to start his own sign business. He wanted to go non-union because he could not at that time afford the dues.
He started very successfully, but the Union didn’t like it. They bombed his shop and then set it on fire later. The stress was so much on Dad that had a heart attack.
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galrads: Hey, JH, are you guys serious?
The biggest expenses in state government(s) include education, medicaid, prisons, transportation, unemployment compensation; not salaries/benefits. Sure, fat exists elsewhere but it's not with the majority of government employees, who are also tax payers. We bail out wall street and then target public employees for their efforts to provide police and fire services and teachers and prison guards etc.
I say let all the prisoners in America free, forget snow and ice removal, forget clean water and waste disposal and sewer maintenance. Our kids can get home schooling, forget the disabled and abandoned, let the environment go back to the dirty and unhealthy 60's style and fire all the traffic controllers again at the same time. We don't need any of them. Instead, all we need to do is pay for grander parties for the bankers! Down with the little guy!
The biggest expenses in state government(s) include education, medicaid, prisons, transportation, unemployment compensation; not salaries/benefits. Sure, fat exists elsewhere but it's not with the majority of government employees, who are also tax payers. We bail out wall street and then target public employees for their efforts to provide police and fire services and teachers and prison guards etc.
I say let all the prisoners in America free, forget snow and ice removal, forget clean water and waste disposal and sewer maintenance. Our kids can get home schooling, forget the disabled and abandoned, let the environment go back to the dirty and unhealthy 60's style and fire all the traffic controllers again at the same time. We don't need any of them. Instead, all we need to do is pay for grander parties for the bankers! Down with the little guy!
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Wisconsin public schools are one of the top 10 in the Nation. Does this country want to lower the standards of education for the generations to come?
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You are correct galrads
I was on air this morning; radio show, Bob Becker out of Cleveland WTAM. The broadcast was a very good discussion between Union Members and Non- Union Members.
Union members brought up a point that is considerable between the differences of Private and Public sector workers.
Private sectors employers try to get rid of or fire aged workers who can't perform their jobs like they did when they were younger whereas Unions try to protect older workers.
This is a true Union story.
Dave and Joe both worked for the Union as drywall installers. They were both the same age. Dave worked very hard and installed 300 square feet a day. Joe only installed 150 square feet a day because he took many more breaks and knew that the Union protected him.
Even though Dave worked harder, Joe and Dave still made the same pay rate. Was this fair to Dave?
I was on air this morning; radio show, Bob Becker out of Cleveland WTAM. The broadcast was a very good discussion between Union Members and Non- Union Members.
Union members brought up a point that is considerable between the differences of Private and Public sector workers.
Private sectors employers try to get rid of or fire aged workers who can't perform their jobs like they did when they were younger whereas Unions try to protect older workers.
This is a true Union story.
Dave and Joe both worked for the Union as drywall installers. They were both the same age. Dave worked very hard and installed 300 square feet a day. Joe only installed 150 square feet a day because he took many more breaks and knew that the Union protected him.
Even though Dave worked harder, Joe and Dave still made the same pay rate. Was this fair to Dave?
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Saturday, February 19, 2011
Milwaukee Teachers Earn Over $100,000 a Year
The Wisconsin teacher strike has ignited another debate about America's supposedly underpaid teachers.
Let's talk reality here.
According to the MacIver Institute total teacher compensation in Milwaukee is $100,005 a year. Salaries average $56,500 and benefits are $43,505. It's a strange salary to benefit ratio, but unions have been pushing benefits over salaries for decades. It was their choice to do this.
Teachers work less than 37 weeks a year. They get 10 weeks off in the summer, 1 week at Christmas, 1 week for mid-winter break, 1 week for spring break, and 11 holidays. The leaves 1472 hours for work. $100,005 / 1472 hours is $68 an hour.
Over the last couple of years, I ran a little consulting firm. When I needed people, I brought them in as 1099 subcontractors at a straight hourly rate. No benefits whatsoever. Over the last two years, the average hourly rate I've paid is $65. That's less than the Milwaukee teachers make.
There are three important differences as well:
First, I live on the west coast, where the cost of living is much higher that it is in Wisconsin. Computer programmer rates are much lower in the Midwest than they are in Seattle. The average teacher in Wisconsin makes significantly more per hour than the average contract programmer.
Second, I hire people who have quantitative college degrees, like Computer Science where they go through 4 semesters of calculus, linear algebra, and statistics. I don't hire people who have worthless teaching certificates or degrees in "Phys Ed".
Third, if the people I employ don't do a great job, my customers won't pay me. They certainly won't bring me back to do more work. On the other hand, teachers get "tenure", which makes it impossible to terminate them no matter how screwed up their product (your kids) become.
The sad fact is that America's poorly performing public school system has little to do with lack of funding or poor teacher compensation. The schools don't perform because the unions care more about their own power than they care about our kids. That's the bottom line.
Milwaukee Teachers Earn Over $100,000 a Year
The Wisconsin teacher strike has ignited another debate about America's supposedly underpaid teachers.
Let's talk reality here.
According to the MacIver Institute total teacher compensation in Milwaukee is $100,005 a year. Salaries average $56,500 and benefits are $43,505. It's a strange salary to benefit ratio, but unions have been pushing benefits over salaries for decades. It was their choice to do this.
Teachers work less than 37 weeks a year. They get 10 weeks off in the summer, 1 week at Christmas, 1 week for mid-winter break, 1 week for spring break, and 11 holidays. The leaves 1472 hours for work. $100,005 / 1472 hours is $68 an hour.
Over the last couple of years, I ran a little consulting firm. When I needed people, I brought them in as 1099 subcontractors at a straight hourly rate. No benefits whatsoever. Over the last two years, the average hourly rate I've paid is $65. That's less than the Milwaukee teachers make.
There are three important differences as well:
First, I live on the west coast, where the cost of living is much higher that it is in Wisconsin. Computer programmer rates are much lower in the Midwest than they are in Seattle. The average teacher in Wisconsin makes significantly more per hour than the average contract programmer.
Second, I hire people who have quantitative college degrees, like Computer Science where they go through 4 semesters of calculus, linear algebra, and statistics. I don't hire people who have worthless teaching certificates or degrees in "Phys Ed".
Third, if the people I employ don't do a great job, my customers won't pay me. They certainly won't bring me back to do more work. On the other hand, teachers get "tenure", which makes it impossible to terminate them no matter how screwed up their product (your kids) become.
The sad fact is that America's poorly performing public school system has little to do with lack of funding or poor teacher compensation. The schools don't perform because the unions care more about their own power than they care about our kids. That's the bottom line.
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johnaustin123: You are correct galrads
I was on air this morning; radio show, Bob Becker out of Cleveland WTAM. The broadcast was a very good discussion between Union Members and Non- Union Members.
Union members brought up a point that is considerable between the differences of Private and Public sector workers.
Private sectors employers try to get rid of or fire aged workers who can't perform their jobs like they did when they were younger whereas Unions try to protect older workers.
This is a true Union story.
Dave and Joe both worked for the Union as drywall installers. They were both the same age. Dave worked very hard and installed 300 square feet a day. Joe only installed 150 square feet a day because he took many more breaks and knew that the Union protected him.
Even though Dave worked harder, Joe and Dave still made the same pay rate. Was this fair to Dave?
I was on air this morning; radio show, Bob Becker out of Cleveland WTAM. The broadcast was a very good discussion between Union Members and Non- Union Members.
Union members brought up a point that is considerable between the differences of Private and Public sector workers.
Private sectors employers try to get rid of or fire aged workers who can't perform their jobs like they did when they were younger whereas Unions try to protect older workers.
This is a true Union story.
Dave and Joe both worked for the Union as drywall installers. They were both the same age. Dave worked very hard and installed 300 square feet a day. Joe only installed 150 square feet a day because he took many more breaks and knew that the Union protected him.
Even though Dave worked harder, Joe and Dave still made the same pay rate. Was this fair to Dave?
While in H.S. I worked home construction jobs and knew friends working in the manufacturing world of various stuff. Similar union jobs then, similar to what you describe, paid by the amount of work or by the amount of product produced. i.e., I installed new hardwood floors back then and I was paid by the number of square feet I would lay. So it didn't matter who worked harder, it was a matter of producing what one could or wanted too…. providing the quality was there, of course.
I am greatly concerned about governors and other politicians facilitating their own possible clandestine agenda at the expense of the public or at the expense of the little guy providing the service. Collective bargaining rules need tweaked maybe, not eradicated.
Look to the big government salaries that are not under civil service protection and eliminate them if you want to see a difference in government expenses. For instance look at the salaries, benefits and perks of the fat cats in administrative school jobs, school presidents and sport coaches. take a look at the OSU presidents office and the football coaches alone.
Those folks each have multi-million dollar contracts! These type employees receive big annual bonuses on top of that too. The current governor of Ohio pays his cabinet members more than any previous Ohio governor's cabinets in Ohio and at the same time he wants to mess with the little guy. Oh man, yes, all hail wall street, bankers, governors, football coaches and college presidents and fire all the little people!
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I think, for the most part, you are talking apples and oranges here and you are unfairly picking on teachers. If schools don't perform it's probably because they can't.
The family or lack of family interest and discipline are tough obstacles for teachers to overcome. I attended parochial schools and received frequent discipline including the paddle and I deserved it! Geeesch!
The family or lack of family interest and discipline are tough obstacles for teachers to overcome. I attended parochial schools and received frequent discipline including the paddle and I deserved it! Geeesch!
Actractorguy: Saturday, February 19, 2011
Milwaukee Teachers Earn Over $100,000 a Year
The Wisconsin teacher strike has ignited another debate about America's supposedly underpaid teachers.
Let's talk reality here.
According to the MacIver Institute total teacher compensation in Milwaukee is $100,005 a year. Salaries average $56,500 and benefits are $43,505. It's a strange salary to benefit ratio, but unions have been pushing benefits over salaries for decades. It was their choice to do this.
Teachers work less than 37 weeks a year. They get 10 weeks off in the summer, 1 week at Christmas, 1 week for mid-winter break, 1 week for spring break, and 11 holidays. The leaves 1472 hours for work. $100,005 / 1472 hours is $68 an hour.
Over the last couple of years, I ran a little consulting firm. When I needed people, I brought them in as 1099 subcontractors at a straight hourly rate. No benefits whatsoever. Over the last two years, the average hourly rate I've paid is $65. That's less than the Milwaukee teachers make.
There are three important differences as well:
First, I live on the west coast, where the cost of living is much higher that it is in Wisconsin. Computer programmer rates are much lower in the Midwest than they are in Seattle. The average teacher in Wisconsin makes significantly more per hour than the average contract programmer.
Second, I hire people who have quantitative college degrees, like Computer Science where they go through 4 semesters of calculus, linear algebra, and statistics. I don't hire people who have worthless teaching certificates or degrees in "Phys Ed".
Third, if the people I employ don't do a great job, my customers won't pay me. They certainly won't bring me back to do more work. On the other hand, teachers get "tenure", which makes it impossible to terminate them no matter how screwed up their product (your kids) become.
The sad fact is that America's poorly performing public school system has little to do with lack of funding or poor teacher compensation. The schools don't perform because the unions care more about their own power than they care about our kids. That's the bottom line.
Milwaukee Teachers Earn Over $100,000 a Year
The Wisconsin teacher strike has ignited another debate about America's supposedly underpaid teachers.
Let's talk reality here.
According to the MacIver Institute total teacher compensation in Milwaukee is $100,005 a year. Salaries average $56,500 and benefits are $43,505. It's a strange salary to benefit ratio, but unions have been pushing benefits over salaries for decades. It was their choice to do this.
Teachers work less than 37 weeks a year. They get 10 weeks off in the summer, 1 week at Christmas, 1 week for mid-winter break, 1 week for spring break, and 11 holidays. The leaves 1472 hours for work. $100,005 / 1472 hours is $68 an hour.
Over the last couple of years, I ran a little consulting firm. When I needed people, I brought them in as 1099 subcontractors at a straight hourly rate. No benefits whatsoever. Over the last two years, the average hourly rate I've paid is $65. That's less than the Milwaukee teachers make.
There are three important differences as well:
First, I live on the west coast, where the cost of living is much higher that it is in Wisconsin. Computer programmer rates are much lower in the Midwest than they are in Seattle. The average teacher in Wisconsin makes significantly more per hour than the average contract programmer.
Second, I hire people who have quantitative college degrees, like Computer Science where they go through 4 semesters of calculus, linear algebra, and statistics. I don't hire people who have worthless teaching certificates or degrees in "Phys Ed".
Third, if the people I employ don't do a great job, my customers won't pay me. They certainly won't bring me back to do more work. On the other hand, teachers get "tenure", which makes it impossible to terminate them no matter how screwed up their product (your kids) become.
The sad fact is that America's poorly performing public school system has little to do with lack of funding or poor teacher compensation. The schools don't perform because the unions care more about their own power than they care about our kids. That's the bottom line.
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galrads: I think, for the most part, you are talking apples and oranges here and you are unfairly picking on teachers. If schools don't perform it's probably because they can't.
The family or lack of family interest and discipline are tough obstacles for teachers to overcome. I attended parochial schools and received frequent discipline including the paddle and I deserved it! Geeesch!
The family or lack of family interest and discipline are tough obstacles for teachers to overcome. I attended parochial schools and received frequent discipline including the paddle and I deserved it! Geeesch!
Yep; But all public Servants need to be placed in a different category. If your a public servant then you should be subject to dismissal if you don't meet the performance requirements of the position period. No union clauses to prevent firing.
Just an example not singling out.
Annals of Education
The Rubber Room
The battle over New York City’s worst teachers.
Read more
In a windowless room in a shabby office building at Seventh Avenue and Twenty-eighth Street, in Manhattan, a poster is taped to a wall, whose message could easily be the mission statement for a day-care center: “Children are fragile. Handle with care.” It’s a June morning, and there are fifteen people in the room, four of them fast asleep, their heads lying on a card table. Three are playing a board game. Most of the others stand around chatting. Two are arguing over one of the folding chairs. But there are no children here. The inhabitants are all New York City schoolteachers who have been sent to what is officially called a Temporary Reassignment Center but which everyone calls the Rubber Room.
These fifteen teachers, along with about six hundred others, in six larger Rubber Rooms in the city’s five boroughs, have been accused of misconduct, such as hitting or molesting a student, or, in some cases, of incompetence, in a system that rarely calls anyone incompetent.
The teachers have been in the Rubber Room for an average of about three years, doing the same thing every day—which is pretty much nothing at all. Watched over by two private security guards and two city Department of Education supervisors, they punch a time clock for the same hours that they would have kept at school—typically, eight-fifteen to three-fifteen. Like all teachers, they have the summer off. The city’s contract with their union, the United Federation of Teachers, requires that charges against them be heard by an arbitrator, and until the charges are resolved—the process is often endless—they will continue to draw their salaries and accrue pensions and other benefits.
“You can never appreciate how irrational the system is until you’ve lived with it,” says Joel Klein, the city’s schools chancellor, who was appointed by Mayor Michael Bloomberg seven years ago.
Read more
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I have experienced this angle because I was a temporary employee at one time:
Many employers hire from temporary services; rather than hire permanently because it is less expensive for them to do so. These employers take advantage of them because they don't have to supply Health Insurance and other Benefits to the Temps.
If an injury happens to them at work, worker compensation laws fall back on the Temp Agency. Right now, we see the greatest rise in temp hiring in History.
Maybe this is where Unions should go? (To help Temp workers who can't find a permanent job and are taken advantage of).
Many employers hire from temporary services; rather than hire permanently because it is less expensive for them to do so. These employers take advantage of them because they don't have to supply Health Insurance and other Benefits to the Temps.
If an injury happens to them at work, worker compensation laws fall back on the Temp Agency. Right now, we see the greatest rise in temp hiring in History.
Maybe this is where Unions should go? (To help Temp workers who can't find a permanent job and are taken advantage of).
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Man…. civil service employees are not "servants"! They have a job to do and they pay taxes too. This may sound politically incorrect to you, but all of the U.S.A.s budgetary problems would be solved almost overnight if we drastically reduced our armed forces, including most of the Navy. We're not respected anymore in most of the world so let the other nations protect themselves.
Why do we need to be mercenaries and world patrol-people for other nations who don't care? Yep, keep the carriers and subs and scrub the rest of the navy and 1/2 the marines, 2/3rds of the army but promote the reserves, state national guard, the TSA and our border guards.
Why do we need to be mercenaries and world patrol-people for other nations who don't care? Yep, keep the carriers and subs and scrub the rest of the navy and 1/2 the marines, 2/3rds of the army but promote the reserves, state national guard, the TSA and our border guards.
Actractorguy: Yep; But all public Servants need to be placed in a different category. If your a public servant then you should be subject to dismissal if you don't meet the performance requirements of the position period. No union clauses to prevent firing.
Just an example not singling out.
Annals of Education
The Rubber Room
The battle over New York City’s worst teachers.
Read more
In a windowless room in a shabby office building at Seventh Avenue and Twenty-eighth Street, in Manhattan, a poster is taped to a wall, whose message could easily be the mission statement for a day-care center: “Children are fragile. Handle with care.” It’s a June morning, and there are fifteen people in the room, four of them fast asleep, their heads lying on a card table. Three are playing a board game. Most of the others stand around chatting. Two are arguing over one of the folding chairs. But there are no children here. The inhabitants are all New York City schoolteachers who have been sent to what is officially called a Temporary Reassignment Center but which everyone calls the Rubber Room.
These fifteen teachers, along with about six hundred others, in six larger Rubber Rooms in the city’s five boroughs, have been accused of misconduct, such as hitting or molesting a student, or, in some cases, of incompetence, in a system that rarely calls anyone incompetent.
The teachers have been in the Rubber Room for an average of about three years, doing the same thing every day—which is pretty much nothing at all. Watched over by two private security guards and two city Department of Education supervisors, they punch a time clock for the same hours that they would have kept at school—typically, eight-fifteen to three-fifteen. Like all teachers, they have the summer off. The city’s contract with their union, the United Federation of Teachers, requires that charges against them be heard by an arbitrator, and until the charges are resolved—the process is often endless—they will continue to draw their salaries and accrue pensions and other benefits.
“You can never appreciate how irrational the system is until you’ve lived with it,” says Joel Klein, the city’s schools chancellor, who was appointed by Mayor Michael Bloomberg seven years ago.
Read more
Just an example not singling out.
Annals of Education
The Rubber Room
The battle over New York City’s worst teachers.
Read more
In a windowless room in a shabby office building at Seventh Avenue and Twenty-eighth Street, in Manhattan, a poster is taped to a wall, whose message could easily be the mission statement for a day-care center: “Children are fragile. Handle with care.” It’s a June morning, and there are fifteen people in the room, four of them fast asleep, their heads lying on a card table. Three are playing a board game. Most of the others stand around chatting. Two are arguing over one of the folding chairs. But there are no children here. The inhabitants are all New York City schoolteachers who have been sent to what is officially called a Temporary Reassignment Center but which everyone calls the Rubber Room.
These fifteen teachers, along with about six hundred others, in six larger Rubber Rooms in the city’s five boroughs, have been accused of misconduct, such as hitting or molesting a student, or, in some cases, of incompetence, in a system that rarely calls anyone incompetent.
The teachers have been in the Rubber Room for an average of about three years, doing the same thing every day—which is pretty much nothing at all. Watched over by two private security guards and two city Department of Education supervisors, they punch a time clock for the same hours that they would have kept at school—typically, eight-fifteen to three-fifteen. Like all teachers, they have the summer off. The city’s contract with their union, the United Federation of Teachers, requires that charges against them be heard by an arbitrator, and until the charges are resolved—the process is often endless—they will continue to draw their salaries and accrue pensions and other benefits.
“You can never appreciate how irrational the system is until you’ve lived with it,” says Joel Klein, the city’s schools chancellor, who was appointed by Mayor Michael Bloomberg seven years ago.
Read more
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I don't know about that JA. They'd probably just try and hire more part-time employees then to keep the fat cats on wall street and the bankers fatter. Sad stuff in my book.
They'd probably just try and hire more part-time employees then to keep the fat cats on wall street and the bankers fatter. Sad stuff in my book. johnaustin123: I have experienced this angle because I was a temporary employee at one time:
Many employers hire from temporary services; rather than hire permanently because it is less expensive for them to do so. These employers take advantage of them because they don't have to supply Health Insurance and other Benefits to the Temps.
If an injury happens to them at work, worker compensation laws fall back on the Temp Agency. Right now, we see the greatest rise in temp hiring in History.
Maybe this is where Unions should go? (To help Temp workers who can't find a permanent job and are taken advantage of).
Many employers hire from temporary services; rather than hire permanently because it is less expensive for them to do so. These employers take advantage of them because they don't have to supply Health Insurance and other Benefits to the Temps.
If an injury happens to them at work, worker compensation laws fall back on the Temp Agency. Right now, we see the greatest rise in temp hiring in History.
Maybe this is where Unions should go? (To help Temp workers who can't find a permanent job and are taken advantage of).
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Agree galrads
We should be cutting our Defense spending. The Pentagon has even said so. They did set a minimum limit on how many Billions of Dollars that they really don't need for useless projects.
Entitlements should also be cut.
Social Security is also another issue. Cuts could be made, but our Senior Citizens would be angry.
Most earmarks should be cut altogether. They are only entitlements to the States.
Congress just voted to eliminate the EPA Cap and Trade Bill.
The High Rail proposal should also be scraped. It would be more entitlements to the States like NY and CA that want faster commuter service.
I do believe that we need to rebuild our infrastructure. That is where we should leave it for now.
The agreement by the present Administration to hire 5.000 new IRS employees, on top of the predicted thousands of other IRS hiring’s to enforce Obama care is ridiculous also.
We should be cutting our Defense spending. The Pentagon has even said so. They did set a minimum limit on how many Billions of Dollars that they really don't need for useless projects.
Entitlements should also be cut.
Social Security is also another issue. Cuts could be made, but our Senior Citizens would be angry.
Most earmarks should be cut altogether. They are only entitlements to the States.
Congress just voted to eliminate the EPA Cap and Trade Bill.
The High Rail proposal should also be scraped. It would be more entitlements to the States like NY and CA that want faster commuter service.
I do believe that we need to rebuild our infrastructure. That is where we should leave it for now.
The agreement by the present Administration to hire 5.000 new IRS employees, on top of the predicted thousands of other IRS hiring’s to enforce Obama care is ridiculous also.
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Yes, John, we should have and could have a better infrastructure than the EU has. If only we didn't have our military expenses we could have it and prosper more. Eisenhower tried and warned us about the evolving U.S. military industrial complex monster. He understood the military better than anyone and he was afraid of what was developing.
johnaustin123: Agree galrads
We should be cutting our Defense spending. The Pentagon has even said so. They did set a minimum limit on how many Billions of Dollars that they really don't need for useless projects.
Entitlements should also be cut.
Social Security is also another issue. Cuts could be made, but our Senior Citizens would be angry.
Most earmarks should be cut altogether. They are only entitlements to the States.
Congress just voted to eliminate the EPA Cap and Trade Bill.
The High Rail proposal should also be scraped. It would be more entitlements to the States like NY and CA that want faster commuter service.
I do believe that we need to rebuild our infrastructure. That is where we should leave it for now.
The agreement by the present Administration to hire 5.000 new IRS employees, on top of the predicted thousands of other IRS hiring’s to enforce Obama care is ridiculous also.
We should be cutting our Defense spending. The Pentagon has even said so. They did set a minimum limit on how many Billions of Dollars that they really don't need for useless projects.
Entitlements should also be cut.
Social Security is also another issue. Cuts could be made, but our Senior Citizens would be angry.
Most earmarks should be cut altogether. They are only entitlements to the States.
Congress just voted to eliminate the EPA Cap and Trade Bill.
The High Rail proposal should also be scraped. It would be more entitlements to the States like NY and CA that want faster commuter service.
I do believe that we need to rebuild our infrastructure. That is where we should leave it for now.
The agreement by the present Administration to hire 5.000 new IRS employees, on top of the predicted thousands of other IRS hiring’s to enforce Obama care is ridiculous also.
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This is what Glenn has to say:
Glenn Beck: Wisconsin Unions, Muslim Brotherhoo...
Glenn Beck: Wisconsin Unions, Muslim Brotherhoo...
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Hahaha, every once in a while Glenn Beck has something interesting to sell say, but in this case we are seeing the comedian in him. 
johnaustin123: This is what Glenn has to say:
Glenn Beck: Wisconsin Unions, Muslim Brotherhoo...
Glenn Beck: Wisconsin Unions, Muslim Brotherhoo...
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Yes galrads
Glenn matches teaching and Comedy to a high degree. I'm like that also...If we don't have a sense of humor, we go nuts.
Will New York Billionaire Donald Trump Run for President...
Glenn matches teaching and Comedy to a high degree. I'm like that also...If we don't have a sense of humor, we go nuts.
Will New York Billionaire Donald Trump Run for President...
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Union Lawyers don't have a clue about this...The born right of a human being is to not serve a Union, but to be a free individual.
This is a copyright free to you because I wrote this in 2009:
In our political structure, there are (3) types of Laws.
1). Maritime Laws (Laws of the water),
2). Civil Laws (Laws of the Land), and
3). (Uniform Commercial (Statutory Laws))).
When a child is born, a paper is established on ownership claims by the Banks. (Certificate Banking) ?You are born of your Mother’s water under Admiralty law (Maritime). That makes you an Admiralty product. When the Mother signs the Birth Certificate, she’s an informant, notifying to the Central Banks that she has produced a product. When she signs this, she is abandoning the human child. (Admiralty, Salvage Rights). The state picks it up, and when they file the original birth certificate, they produce another document.
On the new one, the (Christian) name of the baby will be in all CAPITAL LETTERS. That baby becomes a Corporation for the Banks, and must follow (Uniform Commercial Statutory codes). They use this new Human Being to float loans through the Federal Reserve. They turn these loans into Bonds. The Bonds go into the International Monetary Fund.
On the back of your Birth Certificate, there is a Bond Number. The Banks and the Feds stole our bodies. Anyone who has studied Law knows this, and you can always beat them in Court if you have your birth certificate changed.
This is a copyright free to you because I wrote this in 2009:
In our political structure, there are (3) types of Laws.
1). Maritime Laws (Laws of the water),
2). Civil Laws (Laws of the Land), and
3). (Uniform Commercial (Statutory Laws))).
When a child is born, a paper is established on ownership claims by the Banks. (Certificate Banking) ?You are born of your Mother’s water under Admiralty law (Maritime). That makes you an Admiralty product. When the Mother signs the Birth Certificate, she’s an informant, notifying to the Central Banks that she has produced a product. When she signs this, she is abandoning the human child. (Admiralty, Salvage Rights). The state picks it up, and when they file the original birth certificate, they produce another document.
On the new one, the (Christian) name of the baby will be in all CAPITAL LETTERS. That baby becomes a Corporation for the Banks, and must follow (Uniform Commercial Statutory codes). They use this new Human Being to float loans through the Federal Reserve. They turn these loans into Bonds. The Bonds go into the International Monetary Fund.
On the back of your Birth Certificate, there is a Bond Number. The Banks and the Feds stole our bodies. Anyone who has studied Law knows this, and you can always beat them in Court if you have your birth certificate changed.
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johnaustin123: Union Lawyers don't have a clue about this...The born right of a human being is to not serve a Union, but to be a free individual.
This is a copyright free to you because I wrote this in 2009:
In our political structure, there are (3) types of Laws.
1). Maritime Laws (Laws of the water),
2). Civil Laws (Laws of the Land), and
3). (Uniform Commercial (Statutory Laws))).
When a child is born, a paper is established on ownership claims by the Banks. (Certificate Banking) ?You are born of your Mother’s water under Admiralty law (Maritime). That makes you an Admiralty product. When the Mother signs the Birth Certificate, she’s an informant, notifying to the Central Banks that she has produced a product. When she signs this, she is abandoning the human child. (Admiralty, Salvage Rights). The state picks it up, and when they file the original birth certificate, they produce another document.
On the new one, the (Christian) name of the baby will be in all CAPITAL LETTERS. That baby becomes a Corporation for the Banks, and must follow (Uniform Commercial Statutory codes). They use this new Human Being to float loans through the Federal Reserve. They turn these loans into Bonds. The Bonds go into the International Monetary Fund.
On the back of your Birth Certificate, there is a Bond Number. The Banks and the Feds stole our bodies. Anyone who has studied Law knows this, and you can always beat them in Court if you have your birth certificate changed.
This is a copyright free to you because I wrote this in 2009:
In our political structure, there are (3) types of Laws.
1). Maritime Laws (Laws of the water),
2). Civil Laws (Laws of the Land), and
3). (Uniform Commercial (Statutory Laws))).
When a child is born, a paper is established on ownership claims by the Banks. (Certificate Banking) ?You are born of your Mother’s water under Admiralty law (Maritime). That makes you an Admiralty product. When the Mother signs the Birth Certificate, she’s an informant, notifying to the Central Banks that she has produced a product. When she signs this, she is abandoning the human child. (Admiralty, Salvage Rights). The state picks it up, and when they file the original birth certificate, they produce another document.
On the new one, the (Christian) name of the baby will be in all CAPITAL LETTERS. That baby becomes a Corporation for the Banks, and must follow (Uniform Commercial Statutory codes). They use this new Human Being to float loans through the Federal Reserve. They turn these loans into Bonds. The Bonds go into the International Monetary Fund.
On the back of your Birth Certificate, there is a Bond Number. The Banks and the Feds stole our bodies. Anyone who has studied Law knows this, and you can always beat them in Court if you have your birth certificate changed.
serve a union, serve a corporation. we are all born to serve
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emmaline"We are all born to serve".
I'm waiting on the Wisconsin vote on prop 5. They only need 1 Democrat to show up. The Democrats in the Wisconsin Assembly are hiding in Illinois. They say that they are prepared to stay there a long time.
The same thing happened in Texas, 2003. They went to Oklahoma.
What brought them back Emma, was that since they were supposed to serve the people that elected them, the Texas Rangers went after them and threatened to take away their pay and benefits.
The same thing will most likely happen in Wisconsin because the National Guard is tracking them down.
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johnaustin123: emmaline
"We are all born to serve".
I'm waiting on the Wisconsin vote on prop 5. They only need 1 Democrat to show up. The Democrats in the Wisconsin Assembly are hiding in Illinois. They say that they are prepared to stay there a long time.
The same thing happened in Texas, 2003. They went to Oklahoma.
What brought them back Emma, was that since they were supposed to serve the people that elected them, the Texas Rangers went after them and threatened to take away their pay and benefits.
The same thing will most likely happen in Wisconsin because the National Guard is tracking them down.
"We are all born to serve".
I'm waiting on the Wisconsin vote on prop 5. They only need 1 Democrat to show up. The Democrats in the Wisconsin Assembly are hiding in Illinois. They say that they are prepared to stay there a long time.
The same thing happened in Texas, 2003. They went to Oklahoma.
What brought them back Emma, was that since they were supposed to serve the people that elected them, the Texas Rangers went after them and threatened to take away their pay and benefits.
The same thing will most likely happen in Wisconsin because the National Guard is tracking them down.
show your hand scott walker and lets see what poker game you play
WASHINGTON — Among the thousands of demonstrators who jammed the Wisconsin State Capitol grounds this weekend was a well-financed advocate from Washington who was there to voice praise for cutting state spending by slashing union benefits and bargaining rights.
Enlarge This Image
Left, Robert Caplin For The New York Times; Dave Williams/Wichita Eagle, via Associated Press
David H. Koch, left, and Charles G. Koch have long used their wallets to promote fiscal conservatism and combat regulation.
ROOM FOR DEBATE
Wisconsin's Blow to Union Power
Will the governor's war on public employees' collective bargaining rights sweep the nation?
Related
Union Bonds in Wisconsin Begin to Fray (February 22, 2011)
Wisconsin G.O.P. Plans to Work Without Democrats (February 22, 2011)
The visitor, Tim Phillips, the president of Americans for Prosperity, told a large group of counterprotesters who had gathered Saturday at one edge of what otherwise was a mostly union crowd that the cuts were not only necessary, but they also represented the start of a much-needed nationwide move to slash public-sector union benefits.
“We are going to bring fiscal sanity back to this great nation,” he said.
What Mr. Phillips did not mention was that his Virginia-based nonprofit group, whose budget surged to $40 million in 2010 from $7 million three years ago, was created and financed in part by the secretive billionaire brothers Charles G. and David H. Koch.
State records also show that Koch Industries, their energy and consumer products conglomerate based in Wichita, Kan., was one of the biggest contributors to the election campaign of Gov. Scott Walker of Wisconsin, a Republican who has championed the proposed cuts.
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Large demonstrations in Columbus, Ohio today...following on Wisconsin. It is predicted to move across the border to Indiana.
Many of the Law Enforcement Officers and Firemen (Ohio) were given permission by their Unions to protest.
Many of the Law Enforcement Officers and Firemen (Ohio) were given permission by their Unions to protest.
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galrads: Are you saying that the unions caused or are causing budget shortfalls in state governments? Not. Rather rising costs for increased unemployment insurance payments, increased demands on medicaid and Education are examples of increased state government woes.
Our aging infrastructure isn't helping anyone's pocket book either. Look at shortfalls in revenue that pay for road and bridge maintenance. Did employee expenses create this issue? Nope. Gas sales are flatter, meaning there is less revenue from the sales tax on gasoline that funds a lot of this work.
The fire fighters and teachers and highway maintenance people and highway patrol are not responsible for all of the budget issues. But..... Fire them all! All praise wall street. Down with public employees. Bankers forever!
Our aging infrastructure isn't helping anyone's pocket book either. Look at shortfalls in revenue that pay for road and bridge maintenance. Did employee expenses create this issue? Nope. Gas sales are flatter, meaning there is less revenue from the sales tax on gasoline that funds a lot of this work.
The fire fighters and teachers and highway maintenance people and highway patrol are not responsible for all of the budget issues. But..... Fire them all! All praise wall street. Down with public employees. Bankers forever!
I'm hearing that teachers get tenured and vested in their pensions in just 3 years now. "Tenured" is becoming "Three-urd" and after that they can't be fired, yet their benefits keep going up every year due to the actions of their unions. Why does a tenured teacher need a union? It makes no sense to me. I need some schooling on this. (My buddy wants me to run for the school board)
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Paldi5: I'm hearing that teachers get tenured and vested in their pensions in just 3 years now. "Tenured" is becoming "Three-urd" and after that they can't be fired, yet their benefits keep going up every year due to the actions of their unions. Why does a tenured teacher need a union? It makes no sense to me. I need some schooling on this. (My buddy wants me to run for the school board)
Because being in a union gives them the power to strike and put the education of our children on hold just to get more. Also the union boses have to have some form of income.
I call it black mail plain and simple.
Ranking of political contributions 1989-2010
Rank Organization Total '89-'10 Dem % Repub % Tilt
1 ActBlue $51,124,846 99% 0%
2 AT&T Inc $46,292,670 44% 55%
3 American Fedn of State, County & Municipal Employees $43,477,361 98% 1%
8 National Education Assn $32,024,610 93% 6%
9 Laborers Union $30,292,050 92% 7%
10 Teamsters Union $29,319,982 93% 6%
11 Carpenters & Joiners Union $29,265,808 89% 10%
12 Service Employees International Union $29,140,232 95% 3%
13 American Federation of Teachers $28,733,991 98% 0%
14 Communications Workers of America $28,376,306 98% 0%
15 Citigroup Inc $28,065,874 50% 49%
16 American Medical Assn $27,597,820 40% 59%
17 United Auto Workers $27,134,252 98% 0%
18 National Auto Dealers Assn $26,311,758 32% 67%
19 Machinists & Aerospace Workers Union $26,229,477 98% 0%
20 United Parcel Service $25,290,039 36% 62%
21 United Food & Commercial Workers Union $25,226,733 98% 1%
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Private sector Union - great.
Public sector Union - untermenschen.
Public sector Union - untermenschen.
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Created: Feb 2011
Last Viewed: Apr 26
Last Commented: Mar 2011
Last Voted: Jul 2017
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Trouble in Wisconsin Unions yea or nay(Vote Below)
Which side of the argument is right?
1) Teachers work more hours than we think to teach students. They have already given up a lot with pay and health care expenses.
2) Our States can’t afford to continue the status quo at the level that we see now continuing with Union Rules.
My view is that Teacher’s, Law Enforcement Officers and Firemen should be under the same constraints as our normal Citizens…keeping or lose your job depending on performance.
Governor Walker is really only asking that Tenure among teachers be dependant and changed to a new rating system. Tenure can only be obtained by a high satisfactory rating of (3) consecutive years.
There is much going on with this story, but let me tell you my experience with Unions:
My Father was a good Union worker and a member of Local 639 (Painters Union) in 1969 as a sheet metal worker in the neon sign business. Dad decided that he wanted to start his own sign business. He wanted to go non-union because he could not at that time afford the dues.
He started very successfully, but the Union didn’t like it. They bombed his shop and then set it on fire later. The stress was so much on Dad that had a heart attack.