BERLUSCONI (217)
venere08: there will always be unemployment. All sorts of reasons why a % of the population is u/e.
I was in Itlay in Sept, and everyone I met was working. One, my cousin's husband and his co-worker were being retrenched after christmas, he after 25 yrs. But they had already started a business, with good contacts in Russia re clothing exporting etc. It will be very successful. Those who want to work, generally do, one way or another.
I was in Itlay in Sept, and everyone I met was working. One, my cousin's husband and his co-worker were being retrenched after christmas, he after 25 yrs. But they had already started a business, with good contacts in Russia re clothing exporting etc. It will be very successful. Those who want to work, generally do, one way or another.
Yes there are jobs, but I was there for 8 months, living in a small town in the foothills of the mountains outside of Pisa, there many were losing their jobs, bars were closing due to lack of trade, one of my best friends family business folded leaving 10 out of work four from his own family including his aged father, the school I worked for closed as it only had private students and lost them due to their parents not being able to afford to keep them there.
Italy is weathering the economic crisis well but it is due to one fact alone, and that is the Italians don't believe in banks, so they keep their money as cash, and in Italy CASH is God. Also the black Economy is growing, which means people can still afford to eat etc.
I would also point out that Italy has one of the highest cost of living now in Europe, almost identical to the UK in most instances yet with considerably less earnings in salaries and wages in comparable jobs.
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rizlared: Yes there are jobs, but I was there for 8 months, living in a small town in the foothills of the mountains outside of Pisa, there many were losing their jobs, bars were closing due to lack of trade, one of my best friends family business folded leaving 10 out of work four from his own family including his aged father, the school I worked for closed as it only had private students and lost them due to their parents not being able to afford to keep them there.
Italy is weathering the economic crisis well but it is due to one fact alone, and that is the Italians don't believe in banks, so they keep their money as cash, and in Italy CASH is God. Also the black Economy is growing, which means people can still afford to eat etc.
I would also point out that Italy has one of the highest cost of living now in Europe, almost identical to the UK in most instances yet with considerably less earnings in salaries and wages in comparable jobs.
Italy is weathering the economic crisis well but it is due to one fact alone, and that is the Italians don't believe in banks, so they keep their money as cash, and in Italy CASH is God. Also the black Economy is growing, which means people can still afford to eat etc.
I would also point out that Italy has one of the highest cost of living now in Europe, almost identical to the UK in most instances yet with considerably less earnings in salaries and wages in comparable jobs.
Grim reading.
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venere08: It's not a matter of being a friend, or even liking them very much. That's not what makes a leader. Of-course, Berlusconi doesn't have anywhere near the traditional PM characteristics. But you tell me which head of state you know that hasn't been ridiculed for some reason or other. In the end, that is not what keeps a country going, and from falling into the gutter. As has been the case, over and over again in Italy.
sins the begging of forming the first human societies ... some of the smarter ones have realized that they don`t need to produce any thing or hunt for their dinner (which doesent made them "good people"... )
selling fog ,,,is an expression which describes the best their actions ...
common people are treated as cattle we are suppose to live or die at their command...
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venere08: It's not a matter of being a friend, or even liking them very much. That's not what makes a leader. Of-course, Berlusconi doesn't have anywhere near the traditional PM characteristics. But you tell me which head of state you know that hasn't been ridiculed for some reason or other. In the end, that is not what keeps a country going, and from falling into the gutter. As has been the case, over and over again in Italy.
Very good points Venere
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Boban1: sins the begging of forming the first human societies ... some of the smarter ones have realized that they don`t need to produce any thing or hunt for their dinner (which doesent made them "good people"... )
selling fog ,,,is an expression which describes the best their actions ...
common people are treated as cattle we are suppose to live or die at their command...
selling fog ,,,is an expression which describes the best their actions ...
common people are treated as cattle we are suppose to live or die at their command...
At the end of the day, you still need leaders to have a society, else you fall into anarchy.
Even anarchy is not a long term solution, as new leaders will emerge from that anarchy to restore their sort of order.
It may not be fair, heck, it sure isn't, but it's the way humanity works. Might as well try to stop the waves in the sea can you?
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rizlared: Yes there are jobs, but I was there for 8 months, living in a small town in the foothills of the mountains outside of Pisa, there many were losing their jobs, bars were closing due to lack of trade, one of my best friends family business folded leaving 10 out of work four from his own family including his aged father, the school I worked for closed as it only had private students and lost them due to their parents not being able to afford to keep them there.
Italy is weathering the economic crisis well but it is due to one fact alone, and that is the Italians don't believe in banks, so they keep their money as cash, and in Italy CASH is God. Also the black Economy is growing, which means people can still afford to eat etc.
I would also point out that Italy has one of the highest cost of living now in Europe, almost identical to the UK in most instances yet with considerably less earnings in salaries and wages in comparable jobs.
Italy is weathering the economic crisis well but it is due to one fact alone, and that is the Italians don't believe in banks, so they keep their money as cash, and in Italy CASH is God. Also the black Economy is growing, which means people can still afford to eat etc.
I would also point out that Italy has one of the highest cost of living now in Europe, almost identical to the UK in most instances yet with considerably less earnings in salaries and wages in comparable jobs.
All that you mention is true, but tell me, would the situation be any different with a different leader than Berlusconi? At least he has business acumen (which all the other leaders do not), and has helped Italy weather the storm as best as it can by providing stability.
Having an election every year which was the norm in Italian politics from 1946 till Berlusconi appeared on the scene wasn't any better in my opinion.
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wulfen: At the end of the day, you still need leaders to have a society, else you fall into anarchy.
Even anarchy is not a long term solution, as new leaders will emerge from that anarchy to restore their sort of order.
It may not be fair, heck, it sure isn't, but it's the way humanity works. Might as well try to stop the waves in the sea can you?
Even anarchy is not a long term solution, as new leaders will emerge from that anarchy to restore their sort of order.
It may not be fair, heck, it sure isn't, but it's the way humanity works. Might as well try to stop the waves in the sea can you?
Oh Man.... we have been taught false (programed)for a very long time ....false history ...false science ...false medicine
why do we take it for necessary to have a corrupted land lord ,and saying yes... punish us master cos we are bad... here take all we got
that`s not anarchy I`m talking about....I`m talking about not to be treated as cattle ....
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Boban1: Oh Man.... we have been taught false (programed)for a very long time ....false history ...false science ...false medicine
why do we take it for necessary to have a corrupted land lord ,and saying yes... punish us master cos we are bad... here take all we got
that`s not anarchy I`m talking about....I`m talking about not to be treated as cattle ....
why do we take it for necessary to have a corrupted land lord ,and saying yes... punish us master cos we are bad... here take all we got
that`s not anarchy I`m talking about....I`m talking about not to be treated as cattle ....
I think democracy is the best form of government about not being treated like cattle (though its current form can still be improved on), so we've gone through that. That doesn't mean I consider leaders to be free from flaws, on that I agree with you.
Leaders are by definition attracted to power, and the lure for power will necessarily lead them to do 'pacts with the devil' in an effort to gain that power, no matter how pure and idealistic they may start as.
Going back to Italy, as an outsider that follows Italian news and who has visited there often, I do think Berlusconi is the best choice amongst the political leaders available. That doesn't mean I consider him a saint either.
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rizlared: Yes there are jobs, but I was there for 8 months, living in a small town in the foothills of the mountains outside of Pisa, there many were losing their jobs, bars were closing due to lack of trade, one of my best friends family business folded leaving 10 out of work four from his own family including his aged father, the school I worked for closed as it only had private students and lost them due to their parents not being able to afford to keep them there.
Italy is weathering the economic crisis well but it is due to one fact alone, and that is the Italians don't believe in banks, so they keep their money as cash, and in Italy CASH is God. Also the black Economy is growing, which means people can still afford to eat etc.
I would also point out that Italy has one of the highest cost of living now in Europe, almost identical to the UK in most instances yet with considerably less earnings in salaries and wages in comparable jobs.
Italy is weathering the economic crisis well but it is due to one fact alone, and that is the Italians don't believe in banks, so they keep their money as cash, and in Italy CASH is God. Also the black Economy is growing, which means people can still afford to eat etc.
I would also point out that Italy has one of the highest cost of living now in Europe, almost identical to the UK in most instances yet with considerably less earnings in salaries and wages in comparable jobs.
Oh, riz, when did yuou become so cynical?
I have relatives there, and two of them took me to their banks so I could get the best exchange rather than the 'foreigner's' rates. It was because the bank managers/tellers knew them and that they are such good customers, that I was treated so well, and got fabulous rates.I also have relatives further south, which tradiditonally doesn't fare as well as the north economically. All my cousins and other friends were working. They are all highly motivated and couldn't afford not to work, besides which they have caried skills/qualifications.
I couldn't help thinking perhaps you should consider changing your circle of friends. Even here in Australia, depending on who I hung out with, I'm sure I could surround myself with either negative, out of work sections of the population, or highly driven and successful people, who ooze enthusiasm and a love of life.
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venere08:
I also have relatives further south, which tradiditonally doesn't fare as well as the north economically. All my cousins and other friends were working. They are all highly motivated and couldn't afford not to work, besides which they have varied skills/qualifications.
I also have relatives further south, which tradiditonally doesn't fare as well as the north economically. All my cousins and other friends were working. They are all highly motivated and couldn't afford not to work, besides which they have varied skills/qualifications.
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wulfen: I think democracy is the best form of government about not being treated like cattle (though its current form can still be improved on), so we've gone through that. That doesn't mean I consider leaders to be free from flaws, on that I agree with you.
Leaders are by definition attracted to power, and the lure for power will necessarily lead them to do 'pacts with the devil' in an effort to gain that power, no matter how pure and idealistic they may start as.
Going back to Italy, as an outsider that follows Italian news and who has visited there often, I do think Berlusconi is the best choice amongst the political leaders available. That doesn't mean I consider him a saint either.
Leaders are by definition attracted to power, and the lure for power will necessarily lead them to do 'pacts with the devil' in an effort to gain that power, no matter how pure and idealistic they may start as.
Going back to Italy, as an outsider that follows Italian news and who has visited there often, I do think Berlusconi is the best choice amongst the political leaders available. That doesn't mean I consider him a saint either.
Nice sane post.
I occasionally post sane stuff; it normally gets totally ignored though!
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Boban1: sins the begging of forming the first human societies ... some of the smarter ones have realized that they don`t need to produce any thing or hunt for their dinner (which doesent made them "good people"... )
selling fog ,,,is an expression which describes the best their actions ...
common people are treated as cattle we are suppose to live or die at their command...
selling fog ,,,is an expression which describes the best their actions ...
common people are treated as cattle we are suppose to live or die at their command...
Unless we achieve social 'nirvana', there will always be social and economic inequality, at least, for the foreseeable future.
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venere08: Unless we achieve social 'nirvana', there will always be social and economic inequality, at least, for the foreseeable future.
Very good point venere. Somehow those who aren't in power always tell us how things will change once they are in government etc, then once they get elected, something 'unexpected' will always somehow crop up causing them to follow their predecessor's footsteps.
Just take America as a recent example. Obama got voted in on a wave of public support after a media campaign that depicted him as the new Gandhi/Jesus/Buddha all combined. Yet America is still at war, the economic crisis is still there etc.
The worst thing is that people never learn and will still believe the stuff that politicians promise.
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wulfen: Very good point venere. Somehow those who aren't in power always tell us how things will change once they are in government etc, then once they get elected, something 'unexpected' will always somehow crop up causing them to follow their predecessor's footsteps.
Just take America as a recent example. Obama got voted in on a wave of public support after a media campaign that depicted him as the new Gandhi/Jesus/Buddha all combined. Yet America is still at war, the economic crisis is still there etc.
The worst thing is that people never learn and will still believe the stuff that politicians promise.
Just take America as a recent example. Obama got voted in on a wave of public support after a media campaign that depicted him as the new Gandhi/Jesus/Buddha all combined. Yet America is still at war, the economic crisis is still there etc.
The worst thing is that people never learn and will still believe the stuff that politicians promise.
Sometimes people don't so much vote FOR/IN a particular leader, but they vote OUT the previous one. In many ways by default.
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venere08: Sometimes people don't so much vote FOR/IN a particular leader, but they vote OUT the previous one. In many ways by default.
Or else, it can be like the situation in Malta. We have 2 main political parties, the Nationalists (centre-right) & the Malta Labour Party (once staunch commies, now trying to pose themselves as a modern centre-left).
Many families here support one of these 2 parties with the fanaticism which is more akin the support for a football club. I'm from a 'Labour' family, and when I 'came out' that I'm no socialist and would not be voting for Labour but would be abstaining, my family's reaction was 'this way you'll be giving 2 votes to the Nationalists'; and since I was raised in a 'Labour' family, it was my duty to vote Labour.
Don't worry if you don't understand that line of reasoning, I never did either
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It's not a matter of being a friend, or even liking them very much. That's not what makes a leader. Of-course, Berlusconi doesn't have anywhere near the traditional PM characteristics. But you tell me which head of state you know that hasn't been ridiculed for some reason or other. In the end, that is not what keeps a country going, and from falling into the gutter. As has been the case, over and over again in Italy.