I once did a visual guided meditation...and in the meditation....I was walking over a bridge.
And as I was walking over the bridge,and looked over the left side of the bridge,...we're all the people that have harmed me in my life,and they said to me...''Please forgive us.''...and I SAID...''I do.''
Then I turned and looked over to the right side of the bridge,...and I SAW all the people I had harmed in my life,and I SAID TO THEM...''Please forgive me.''...They said...''We do.''
After the meditation was over...the one thing the man that led the meditation asked was if they noticed something in particular about the meditation... Most of the people...including me..noticed one thing...the people on both sides of the bridges...we're all the same people... We hurt each other...if that makes sense...kinda hard to explain,but the AWARENESS was liberating.
Joyfullspirit: Okay - I understand the forgive part, but where does the 'forget' come from? According to what little I've learned about how the human brain works,it is neurologically impossible to simply forget at will, and yet these two terms are linked together as if synonymous. Even if it were possible to forget an offense would it really be wise to do so? Does the fact that I still remember mean I haven't truly forgiven?
I live by this: Forgive but don't forget. Memories are everything. Besides, if I forget, how would I learn the lessons life teaches me?
nicki_loveoriginally from Venus, Port of Spain Trinidad and Tobago15 Threads374 Posts
nicki_loveoriginally from Venus, Port of Spain Trinidad and Tobago374 posts
thewall2: I don't think FORGIVENESS is saying it's o.k for a harm that someone has done...forgiveness is saying it's over...it also doesn't happen over night...it takes time. I'M ALSO aware on my end that sometimes the people who have hurt me,alot of the times,are sorry for what they did and just didn't know any better at the time....and with that understanding...it's easier to forgive....and without bringing too much religion or God into it...if GOD has forgiven me for my wrongs....who am I not to forgive others.But what is important is forgiveness is not saying it's o.k...it is not o.k,,it's never o.k...forgiveness is saying it's over. I release you and I RELEASE MYSELF FROM WHATEVER HARM WAS CAUSED... and if there is someway we can reconcile and be friends or whatever...fine.
Sometimes...depending on what has been done,,,the best possible relationship is one of distance.I think each case varies...If that makes sense...
nicki_loveoriginally from Venus, Port of Spain Trinidad and Tobago15 Threads374 Posts
nicki_loveoriginally from Venus, Port of Spain Trinidad and Tobago374 posts
thewall2: ...but I also don't forgive for the sake of the other person as much as I do FOR myself...I forgive ...so I CAN be free,so in a way..to me ,,,IT'S A BIT OF A SELFISH ACT...
It's also a proven fact that people who are truly able to forgive were able to move on with their lives....and the people who couldn't ...stayed invalid.....
Barrellofart: Clearly there is often a long way to travel to rebuild trust, but the idea that it is impossible is simply incorrect. It's a subjective matter- Each person determines for theirself what fulfillment of error requires. There are certainly ways to fulfill material, or financial debts- But the matter of honor and trust, ultimately, fall to the person who has been betrayed. And I, having been betrayed, have seen what I consider earnest effort in repayment.
My first inclination was to totally, vehemently disagree with your post, but I took some time to think about it, and i do agree with you - as impossible as it might seem,it IS possible to . . . "put away" an offense to the point where it doesn't influence the current state of a relationship. And it IS a personal issue;what makes someone believe in another; what enables a person to believe again after trust is broken . . I suppose the problem with me personally right now, is I have "forgotten" I have "let go" and stayed with this person, only to have the same (and worse) behavior continue. I don't think I can - or should- "forget" any more.
thewall2: I don't think FORGIVENESS is saying it's o.k for a harm that someone has done...forgiveness is saying it's over...it also doesn't happen over night...it takes time. I'M ALSO aware on my end that sometimes the people who have hurt me,alot of the times,are sorry for what they did and just didn't know any better at the time....and with that understanding...it's easier to forgive....and without bringing too much religion or God into it...if GOD has forgiven me for my wrongs....who am I not to forgive others.But what is important is forgiveness is not saying it's o.k...it is not o.k,,it's never o.k...forgiveness is saying it's over. I release you and I RELEASE MYSELF FROM WHATEVER HARM WAS CAUSED... and if there is someway we can reconcile and be friends or whatever...fine.
Sometimes...depending on what has been done,,,the best possible relationship is one of distance.I think each case varies...If that makes sense...
Thank you for your posts here- in this case, I have to let go with no reconciliation, something I'm ready to do to, but it's difficult when the other person is still trying to convince me of otherwise
Joyfullspirit: My first inclination was to totally, vehemently disagree with your post, but I took some time to think about it, and i do agree with you - as impossible as it might seem,it IS possible to . . . "put away" an offense to the point where it doesn't influence the current state of a relationship. And it IS a personal issue;what makes someone believe in another; what enables a person to believe again after trust is broken . . I suppose the problem with me personally right now, is I have "forgotten" I have "let go" and stayed with this person, only to have the same (and worse) behavior continue. I don't think I can - or should- "forget" any more.
Thanks very much for posting this.
Indeed, it is a personal issue.
May our discretion be harsh enough to demand reconciliation, but gentle enough to accept it when it comes.
Joyfullspirit: Okay - I understand the forgive part, but where does the 'forget' come from? According to what little I've learned about how the human brain works,it is neurologically impossible to simply forget at will, and yet these two terms are linked together as if synonymous. Even if it were possible to forget an offense would it really be wise to do so? Does the fact that I still remember mean I haven't truly forgiven?
I am unusual in my capacity to forgive & forget. It is a gift. My heart is always so full of love for the people who I surround myself with, or who I happen to be around.........
But tho it is a gift, I sometimes think that my ability to forgive & forget so easily has left me vulnerable to being hurt - to being taken advantage of also. Yet I wouldn't trade my gift.
honestly, I have looked right at someone and smiled and then said "wait a minute I am still supposed to be mad at you. What was it for?"
Forgiving takes time, and it isn´t easy, but forgetting is nigh on impossible. What we do is tuck it away and put it on a back burner hoping it will dry out and be tossed away in the trash eventually.
It doesn´t get tossed away, but it does dry up....in time.
felixis99: I am unusual in my capacity to forgive & forget. It is a gift. My heart is always so full of love for the people who I surround myself with, or who I happen to be around.........
But tho it is a gift, I sometimes think that my ability to forgive & forget so easily has left me vulnerable to being hurt - to being taken advantage of also. Yet I wouldn't trade my gift.
honestly, I have looked right at someone and smiled and then said "wait a minute I am still supposed to be mad at you. What was it for?"
Indeed, a part of me wishes I could forget - while another part of me warns myself not to
bodleing: I think forgive and put behind you is more realistic.
yes, well said, i agree, because if we did actually forget,would we not fall in that hole again? where as not forgetting but putting the situation behind ourselves, we may just walk around that hole,
calmheartseeks: To forget means you no longer bring it to mind, or to the mind of the person you've forgiven. Of course you still retain the memory, but you don't use it as a weapon or dwell on it to cause yourself continued pain.
Joyfullspirit: Okay - I understand the forgive part, but where does the 'forget' come from? According to what little I've learned about how the human brain works,it is neurologically impossible to simply forget at will, and yet these two terms are linked together as if synonymous. Even if it were possible to forget an offense would it really be wise to do so? Does the fact that I still remember mean I haven't truly forgiven?
I think that if we come to terms with what happens to us, then the incidence slips into unconciousness, and so is forgotten to all intents and purposes.
The mind usually keeps all trauma and traumatic events for future reference though, because it is part of the survival process. The lessons we learn from being hurt are aften very valuable, and could save our lives in the future, so it is important that they be remembered on some level, even a subconcius one.
Why are you wasting the energy to keep bringing it up to yourself to see if you still remember or not??? Some things are easier to forgive than others, but life is too short to go round and round in circles in my mind. There is so much more to life, and if I was paying attention to it instead of being in a corner licking my wounds and taking account of who has hurt me, and when it was last they hurt me, and how I can get back at them,, what a waste of lifes time...your doctor tells you today you have cancer--you have 3-6 months to live, are you seriously going to worry about it, and be so really f@#%n concerned?! Unreal!! Forgive and forget and move on..that is your gift in life, the ability to move on. You can't change what happened, you can't undo it, you can embrace it, look at it see how valuable it really is to hang onto in life, there are things you like about that person, they are upbeat and positive, and you had fun with them, sometimes they do have better ideas, so what--how great!! MOVE on..forgive and even if they did something really crass--an exboyfriend or girlfriend, carma is like a hunter seeker, it will find that person everytime...and maybe when you don't expect it, but it comes round, always faithful to find....but forgive them, or it comes to find you too...promise...
Joyfullspirit: Okay - I understand the forgive part, but where does the 'forget' come from? According to what little I've learned about how the human brain works,it is neurologically impossible to simply forget at will, and yet these two terms are linked together as if synonymous. Even if it were possible to forget an offense would it really be wise to do so? Does the fact that I still remember mean I haven't truly forgiven?
G-R-E-A-T post Joyfullspirit !
It’s refreshing to read and compare the differing viewpoints on a subject which I think affects each of us at some point in our lives…. sometimes as far back as from childhood through to our adult life……
My last employment was a post working for a bunch of scientists who specialized in neuropharmacology, and although not a scientist myself, the post offered me ample opportunities to get a very enlightened feel of how the brain works! Yes, I totally agree that it is neurologically impossible to simply forget at will
Personally, most of the hurt I have experienced in my life has been dished out by people I have loved and trusted unconditionally, vis-à-vis relationships and family members. It is in my nature to forgive and move on… not always easily accomplished, because it is just as easy to allow the hurt to fester into self-pity, especially if the offending party seems quite unaware or unaccepting of the hurt inflicted by his/her actions.
However, having forgiven, I never forget. I think it is impossible to simply tuck the hurtful incident away somewhere in the back of our head/brain/mind/wherever or wipe it clean like a computer hard drive, and then carry on as if that incident has never happened!
What I strive to do, is to learn something positive from each hurt, whether I am victim or offender, move on (not always easy with the best will in the world) , and try and focus my energy elsewhere…..
My answer to your question: Does the fact that I still remember mean I haven't truly forgiven? Is… yes, you have forgiven but you haven’t forgotten, and in my book that is a normal human reaction, and not one that you should continue to beat yourself up about …. Turn the page over honey, move on to the next chapter in you life and enjoy!
Joyfullspirit: Okay - I understand the forgive part, but where does the 'forget' come from? According to what little I've learned about how the human brain works,it is neurologically impossible to simply forget at will, and yet these two terms are linked together as if synonymous. Even if it were possible to forget an offense would it really be wise to do so? Does the fact that I still remember mean I haven't truly forgiven?
I have a completely different way to react than most of you. It is easier for me to forget than to forgive. I have a very bad memory since always, and it's not getting better with age. When somebody hurts me badly, usually I forget what happened exactly, I only remember I don't like this person any more. People I loved that have been cheating or have hurt me, become invisible to me. I don't hate them or pity them, I just don't care at all about them. Sometimes it takes quite a long time to get rid of the pain, much longer than to forget the reason of the pain.
Some of the comments in this thread have been truly enlightening and give a lot of food for thought But no one has mentioned a breakup where children are involved I have had two previous long term relationships that i managed to get over even though it wasnt easy,but i did forgive ,and not forget, and it was easier with no children involved But i do find it difficult to understand how your partner can unintentionally inflict the pain of a family breakup on your son or daughter, and deprive them of a stable upbringing with their mother and father,just because they were bored.
Adults are very resilient and have grown up to learn and accept hurt in adult life ,but the last thing a young child needs is to see their world blown apart because their parents are splitting up
I know there are cicumstances where this is inevitable,if the parents were violent to each other, for instance,or because of adultry or other extreme marital problems
But when you hear that old chesnut "its not you, its me ",you think,why ?
I know people will say if someone is not happy in a marriage why stay together ?
I personally think bringing a beautiful child into this already disfunctional world is reason enough ,without the trauma they will have to suffer because of their parents inadequaties
telgordo: Some of the comments in this thread have been truly enlightening and give a lot of food for thought But no one has mentioned a breakup where children are involved I have had two previous long term relationships that i managed to get over even though it wasnt easy,but i did forgive ,and not forget, and it was easier with no children involved But i do find it difficult to understand how your partner can unintentionally inflict the pain of a family breakup on your son or daughter, and deprive them of a stable upbringing with their mother and father,just because they were bored.
Adults are very resilient and have grown up to learn and accept hurt in adult life ,but the last thing a young child needs is to see their world blown apart because their parents are splitting up
I know there are cicumstances where this is inevitable,if the parents were violent to each other, for instance,or because of adultry or other extreme marital problems
But when you hear that old chesnut "its not you, its me ",you think,why ?
I know people will say if someone is not happy in a marriage why stay together ?
I personally think bringing a beautiful child into this already disfunctional world is reason enough ,without the trauma they will have to suffer because of their parents inadequaties
Hi Teldordo…
Purely my opinion.... I think most replies have been applied in a general manner. My response to you in respect of specific circumstances such as the negative effects on a child as the result of the breakdown of a marriage, is that yes, personally, I did (eventually not immediately) forgive my ex when my marriage broke up, but I never, ever forgot the hurt and pain…..
However, my son who was the result of the union between my husband and I benefitted from the fact that I did make the effort to forgive, because I made every effort to retain an amicable atmosphere between his father and myself with a view to enabling my son to enjoy the company and efforts of both my ex and I as his parents …. Why not? After all as far as I am concerned, the child is the innocent party who in no way contributed to the fact that his parents could no longer live together in a family-orientated unit… I am not pretending that it was easy, but the act of positively directing my energy towards giving my son a continued feel of parental stability (albeit not 100%) was well worth it…. i.e. focusing on the positive while gradually pushing the negative backlash of anger and hurt into the background….. yes, I forgave, but will never forgot
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I once did a visual guided meditation...and in the meditation....I was walking over a bridge.
And as I was walking over the bridge,and looked over the left side of the bridge,...we're all the people that have harmed me in my life,and they said to me...''Please forgive us.''...and I SAID...''I do.''
Then I turned and looked over to the right side of the bridge,...and I SAW all the people I had harmed in my life,and I SAID TO THEM...''Please forgive me.''...They said...''We do.''
After the meditation was over...the one thing the man that led the meditation asked was if they noticed something in particular about the meditation...
Most of the people...including me..noticed one thing...the people on both sides of the bridges...we're all the same people...
We hurt each other...if that makes sense...kinda hard to explain,but the AWARENESS was liberating.