ttom500: So let us see how much propaganda the REP are splewing;
Key points of the Pledge of America are
1) Extend the GWB tax cut to all Americans. That is a horrible one that will keep wealthy in the country, rather leaving the country for countries in the Carribean and Europe.
2) A tax reduction of 20% to all small business. Now this is a job maker. Reduce taxes on the small business, and they will higher more people. They have more to hire with. But i can see when you think that big government is your sole source provider, this is really propaganda.
3) A hold of all unspent 2009 and 2008 TARP Stimulus moneys. Now this goes to the heart of the issue. DEM waant to spend that money. Pay as you go be dammed. That money was squeesed out of the American pockbetook by DEM for their purposes.
Heck with then fact that to date, the stimulus packages have only made 2m jobs at about $250,000 per job. Small communities like Bell,CA are stealing from it. And big Communities Like LA are making 7.76 jobs for every $41m taken from it. This is truly some heavy REP propaganada here. Obama's goal was to make 4.5m jobs with the Stimulus.
4) A spending freeze on most FED government program, with exemption for Social security and other senior programs. Well not that our national deficit has risen from 9.5trillion to 12.5trillion since Obama took office. This is one of those nasty REP ideas to slow the deficits.
5) A hiring freeze on all FED government agencies. Except those for national security. Again pointed at the deficit control.
6) Repeal of Obamacare
7)Reform of medical health insurance and medical liability
8)Permanent banning on all FEDERAl money for abortions
9)Requirement that Congress post online three day prior to votes all bills
10) Requirement that Congress cite specific Constitutional articles on bill passed. This is Tea Party lover idea. Basically it makes Congress restricted by the Constitution and responsible to enacting legislation only site in it. It will protect American rights and limit government authority.
11)Ban on all trials of GITMO detainees in American soil. Their trials would have to be at GITMO or elsewhere than the US.
Juan, I guess these ideas are repugnant to DEMs. For you call them REP propaganda. They only seem to address many of the main debate issues of country of the last 2 years. You know the things that REP and conservatives found repugnant to a all DEM controlled government.
Or maybe it how the REP lead into the 21 pages by saying the following "An arrogant and out of touch government by self appointed elitists that makes decisions, issue mandates, and enacts laws without accepting or requesting input of the many."
Maybe it is the later is problem here.
Nice points. I would like to address some of them, but I am running a bit short on time here, still I would like to come back to them.
Just briefly the easy one that just caught my eye because it is quick to answer.
Number 5, reducing FED employees. Fact is that the GOP did reduce government employees BUT has outsourced those essential functions to the private sector. THAT has NOT decreased government spending or controlled the deficit. In fact, it has lead to MORE money being spent for the same services that bureaucrats could have performed cheaper. Worse yet, the quality of services has decreased because private enterprise has to calculate profit margins when charging for services. On the whole, since privatisation of gvmt functions was implemented in the Reagan years, "government" has actually expanded when one takes outsourced work into consideration and so has spending.
The plan to decrease privatisation of gvmt jobs, however counterintuitive, will actually save money.
Scubadiva: Would you like me to present proof for my assertion? Is that your point?
Do you believe that the average american is educated in terms of economics and finance?
Asking me what I believe can't prove your assertion no matter what answer I would give. Most everyone in this country is educated. How much might be in question, but "no" education is false at face value.
I think first, since we aren't very clear at all about what you're really trying to say, is to straighten that out with with a clear assertion. It seems you are trying to say something about what you know compared to what (some group of people that we to define) knows and that your political beliefs as they pertain to economics is superior. But I can't tell for sure because of the lack of clarity and substance.
So make an assertion. If it doesn't sound credible, then it will get challenged. And if your assertion is supportable, it will withstand the challenge giving you more credibility yet.
Scubadiva: Number 5, reducing FED employees. BUT has outsourced those essential functions to the private sector. THAT has NOT decreased government spending or controlled the deficit. In fact, it has lead to MORE money being spent for the same services that bureaucrats could have performed cheaper. Worse yet, the quality of services has decreased because private enterprise has to calculate profit margins when charging for services. On the whole, since privatisation of gvmt functions was implemented in the Reagan years, "government" has actually expanded when one takes outsourced work into consideration and so has spending.
The plan to decrease privatisation of gvmt jobs, however counterintuitive, will actually save money.
Now, we're getting somewhere. You have made assertions of fact.
1. Fact is that the GOP did reduce government employees. (accepted).
2. But has outsourced those essential functions to the private sector. (the challenge. Name those functions and explain why they are essential. It is important to establish this because you build on that as a base support for your assertion of fact).
3. In fact, it has lead to MORE money being spent for the same services that bureaucrats could have performed cheaper. (That shouldn't be accepted just because you said it's so. What services outourced to the private sector now cost the government more money than they did while institutionalized? This is an important enough remark that it deserves to be supported by facts and, if the facts are correct, you will establish this point and we can move on).
4. Worse yet, the quality of services has decreased because private enterprise has to calculate profit margins when charging for services. (This one is going to be a really big problem for you because, if your assertions and logical flow have withstood all previous challenges, now you must provide not only support for the generalization that "the quality of services has been decreased" AND you have to prove that this is directly caused by calculation of profit margins when charging for services. ( the "calculation" is the cause? )
5. "On the whole, since privatisation of gvmt functions was implemented in the Reagan years, "government" has actually expanded when one takes outsourced work into consideration and so has spending." ( I think you need to define "expansion" and how, precisely you explain "outsourced work" that was previously government managed is an increase in government personnel and administration. It would also be important to outline the causal relationship here because just pointing to "this is what we spend today" and "this is what we spent yesterday" or even "this is our headcount today" and "that was our headcount yesterday" isn't meaningful unless you can prove that such things have nothing to do with inflation, growing population, increased security, military personnel or the host of other possibilities aside from the "privatization".
I can appreciate that you believe your own facts and logic here, but wouldn't it be rewarding to make such a good case for what you believe that you can influence others with your very clear, well reasoned and well-supported insights and analysis? I'd be impressed. I'm always willing to trade up for a greater truth and more rational and correct understanding. It just has to bear out to be all that.
ttom500: Just a question, Juan. Have you read the REP Pledge to America? It is only 21 pages long. Easy enough to read in 30 minutes time.
Not entirely ........I've been unfortunate enough to see the highlights of it numerous times watching news at nite.
Besides, when the "Creator" is mentioned in the introduction .....that was enough for me to realize it's just more "twisted" GOP bible thumping crap .......
moonmana1: Over five thousand years ago, Moses said to the children of Israel " pick up your shovel, mount your asses and camels, and I will lead you to the Promised Land".
Nearly 75 years ago, Roosevelt said, "Lay down your shovels, sit on your asses, and light up a Camel, this is the Promised Land".
Now Obama has stolen your shovel, taxed your asses, raised the price of Camels, and mortgaged the Promised Land!
I was so depressed last night thinking about health care plans, the economy, the wars, lost jobs, savings, social security, retirement funds, etc. So, I called Lifeline, the suicide help line. Got a freakin' call center in Pakistan and when I told them I was suicidal, they all got excited and asked if I could drive a truck...
jvaski: Not entirely ........I've been unfortunate enough to see the highlights of it numerous times watching news at nite.
Besides, when the "Creator" is mentioned in the introduction .....that was enough for me to realize it's just more "twisted" GOP bible thumping crap .......
jvaski: Not entirely ........I've been unfortunate enough to see the highlights of it numerous times watching news at nite.
Besides, when the "Creator" is mentioned in the introduction .....that was enough for me to realize it's just more "twisted" GOP bible thumping crap .......
I've read it and I didn't see Obama's name anywhere~
jvaski: Not entirely ........I've been unfortunate enough to see the highlights of it numerous times watching news at nite.
Besides, when the "Creator" is mentioned in the introduction .....that was enough for me to realize it's just more "twisted" GOP bible thumping crap .......
So does The Declaration Of Independence!
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Conrad73: So does The Declaration Of Independence!
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
jvaski: Besides, when the "Creator" is mentioned in the introduction .....that was enough for me to realize it's just more "twisted" GOP bible thumping crap .......
The GOP didn't write the declaration independence. The "creator" wasn't popped in there by them.
So you'll have to badmouth them over something else. Unless you're just wanting to share a pointless rant with us. If that's the case, then nevermind and just rant on. :)
Why would anyone choose to take aim at the right foot - after having already blown off the left one ?
GOP has absolutely nothing new to offer ...other than a second and more severe recession .............
Great thread Jv
Actually we are talking a bout folks trying to shuve another republican Plague upon american asse* and those want to beleive in that can never change and have got too much influence in america under recession unfortunatily.
Republican plague is rather scarey but at least... it comes major time and it goes a way all of sudden as a part of anatomy of that horrible disease ... Wait and see
Actually we are talking a bout folks trying to shuve another republican Plague upon american asse* and those want to beleive in that can never change and have got too much influence in america under recession unfortunatily.
Republican plague is rather scarey but at least... it comes major time and it goes a way all of sudden as a part of anatomy of that horrible disease ... Wait and see
jvaski: Not entirely ........I've been unfortunate enough to see the highlights of it numerous times watching news at nite.
Besides, when the "Creator" is mentioned in the introduction .....that was enough for me to realize it's just more "twisted" GOP bible thumping crap .......
At least REP can put him into the 21 pages, Juan. President Obama mis spoke the Constitutional section on the man's rights coming from Divinity the other day at a fund raiser. And he is a 'Constitutional Scholar' from HARvard. You would think that he would have the Constitution memorized.
That faux pax is making the Bible Circuit luncheons in big way around here.
Actually we are talking a bout folks trying to shuve another republican Plague upon american asse* and those want to beleive in that can never change and have got too much influence in america under recession unfortunatily.
Republican plague is rather scarey but at least... it comes major time and it goes a way all of sudden as a part of anatomy of that horrible disease ... Wait and see
I LOVE that site! All you have to do is say something that lets the moderators believe you're not on the crazy train and you're HISTORY there. That's not democracy in any sense of the word. Funny stuff. Post more!
By the way... seriously... that site is some GREAT reading. Want to know what's wrong with liberal thinking ( and I am using "thinking" very, very loosely in this context)? Do y0ou have any genuine thoughts of your own to add?
ttom500: At least REP can put him into the 21 pages, Juan. President Obama mis spoke the Constitutional section on the man's rights coming from Divinity the other day at a fund raiser. And he is a 'Constitutional Scholar' from HARvard. You would think that he would have the Constitution memorized.
That faux pax is making the Bible Circuit luncheons in big way around here.
What the "HELL" does the bible have to do with running a country properly ?
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Key points of the Pledge of America are
1) Extend the GWB tax cut to all Americans. That is a horrible one that will keep wealthy in the country, rather leaving the country for countries in the Carribean and Europe.
2) A tax reduction of 20% to all small business. Now this is a job maker. Reduce taxes on the small business, and they will higher more people. They have more to hire with. But i can see when you think that big government is your sole source provider, this is really propaganda.
3) A hold of all unspent 2009 and 2008 TARP Stimulus moneys. Now this goes to the heart of the issue. DEM waant to spend that money. Pay as you go be dammed. That money was squeesed out of the American pockbetook by DEM for their purposes.
Heck with then fact that to date, the stimulus packages have only made 2m jobs at about $250,000 per job. Small communities like Bell,CA are stealing from it. And big Communities Like LA are making 7.76 jobs for every $41m taken from it. This is truly some heavy REP propaganada here. Obama's goal was to make 4.5m jobs with the Stimulus.
4) A spending freeze on most FED government program, with exemption for Social security and other senior programs. Well not that our national deficit has risen from 9.5trillion to 12.5trillion since Obama took office. This is one of those nasty REP ideas to slow the deficits.
5) A hiring freeze on all FED government agencies. Except those for national security. Again pointed at the deficit control.
6) Repeal of Obamacare
7)Reform of medical health insurance and medical liability
8)Permanent banning on all FEDERAl money for abortions
9)Requirement that Congress post online three day prior to votes all bills
10) Requirement that Congress cite specific Constitutional articles on bill passed. This is Tea Party lover idea. Basically it makes Congress restricted by the Constitution and responsible to enacting legislation only site in it. It will protect American rights and limit government
authority.
11)Ban on all trials of GITMO detainees in American soil. Their trials would have to be at GITMO or elsewhere than the US.
Juan, I guess these ideas are repugnant to DEMs. For you call them REP propaganda. They only seem to address many of the main debate issues
of country of the last 2 years. You know the things that REP and conservatives found repugnant to a all DEM controlled government.
Or maybe it how the REP lead into the 21 pages by saying the following
"An arrogant and out of touch government by self appointed elitists that makes decisions, issue mandates, and enacts laws without accepting or requesting input of the many."
Maybe it is the later is problem here.
Nice points. I would like to address some of them, but I am running a bit short on time here, still I would like to come back to them.
Just briefly the easy one that just caught my eye because it is quick to answer.
Number 5, reducing FED employees. Fact is that the GOP did reduce government employees BUT has outsourced those essential functions to the private sector. THAT has NOT decreased government spending or controlled the deficit. In fact, it has lead to MORE money being spent for the same services that bureaucrats could have performed cheaper. Worse yet, the quality of services has decreased because private enterprise has to calculate profit margins when charging for services.
On the whole, since privatisation of gvmt functions was implemented in the Reagan years, "government" has actually expanded when one takes outsourced work into consideration and so has spending.
The plan to decrease privatisation of gvmt jobs, however counterintuitive, will actually save money.