With the present Zionist mindset firmly in place the only chance for viable "Two-State solution" is for a unilateral move by the Palestine s , in concert with the international community to create their own state. This , with the recent moves by the Palestines to petition the United Nations to declare , once and for all, that the settlements are , in fact, illegal will finally force the Zionists to accept what the world has been saying for years.
SilverBirch: With the present Zionist mindset firmly in place the only chance for viable "Two-State solution" is for a unilateral move by the Palestine s , in concert with the international community to create their own state. This , with the recent moves by the Palestines to petition the United Nations to declare , once and for all, that the settlements are , in fact, illegal will finally force the Zionists to accept what the world has been saying for years.
SilverBirch: With the present Zionist mindset firmly in place the only chance for viable "Two-State solution" is for a unilateral move by the Palestine s , in concert with the international community to create their own state. This , with the recent moves by the Palestines to petition the United Nations to declare , once and for all, that the settlements are , in fact, illegal will finally force the Zionists to accept what the world has been saying for years.
and you really think Hamas,Hezbollah and PA will give Peace? Lost your Common Sense,SB? Holy Peep!
SilverBirch: With the present Zionist mindset firmly in place the only chance for viable "Two-State solution" is for a unilateral move by the Palestine s , in concert with the international community to create their own state. This , with the recent moves by the Palestines to petition the United Nations to declare , once and for all, that the settlements are , in fact, illegal will finally force the Zionists to accept what the world has been saying for years.
It appears a very weird way to force it, Fyi, EU does not back any such move, so dream on... support from few south american nations won't be good not enough..
Delta82: It appears a very weird way to force it, Fyi, EU does not back any such move, so dream on... support from few south american nations won't be good not enough..
Especially Nations with the Postwar Record of some of them!
SilverBirch: With the present Zionist mindset firmly in place the only chance for viable "Two-State solution" is for a unilateral move by the Palestine s , in concert with the international community to create their own state. This , with the recent moves by the Palestines to petition the United Nations to declare , once and for all, that the settlements are , in fact, illegal will finally force the Zionists to accept what the world has been saying for years.
What did you say the difference was between this two state solution and the two state solution of President LBJ thru Obama?
u2KittyClose to the ocean, South Denmark Denmark974 posts
I think this post (see below) from Solitare deserves to be brought up again in this new thread - And... Happy New Year for all - lets hope it will be a peaceful one
u2KittyClose to the ocean, South Denmark Denmark974 posts
THE SOLUTION Post from Solitare in previous thread..
1. Israeli withdrawal to the pre-1967 border. This withdrawal should be accompanied by an Egypto-Jordanian declaration recognizing the existence of Israel, and promising free navigation of the Suez Canal and the Straits of Tiran. The withdrawal is the only obligation incumbent on Israel.
2. Occupation by Neutral Troops As soon as Israel withdraws, the areas between the Jordan River and the Israeli border( hereafter referred to as the West Bank) should immediately be occupied by neutral troops Smaller detachments could also be placed at Al Arish and Sharm al Shaikh.. The Jordan government could provide civil servants and police for the West Bank, but the Jordan army should remain east of the Jordan River.
3. RESETTLEMENT OF THE REFUGEES The heart of the problem does not lie in making peace between Israel, Egypt and Jordan, but in the resettlement of the native population of Palestine, who have been forcibly evicted from their country.
4.Constructive Projects When Israel has withdrawn to the pre-1967 line, one-fifth of the area of Palestine will be freed to accommodate the population which previously occupied the whole country. A consortium of Great Powers, presumably under the auspices of the United Nations, should then undertake to develop this area to enable it to carry a larger population. The Palestinians are good farmers but, of course, have no capital. Nor have they the technical knowledge to undertake major projects. Considerable agricultural development and a certain amount of industrialization are possible in this area.
5. Provision Of Capital and Technical Control The Powers concerned will have to supply the technical control and the necessary capital. It is useless to say that Israel should pay compensation. Israel is not herself vaible, but lives on funds collected from abroad. It is likewise useless to pay compensation to individual refugees. The only solution is for the Powers to execute major development projects, and then to offer the refugees homes, land and employment.
6. Reconstruction of Jordan Funds should also be provided for the re-construction and development of Jordan east of the river. The Jordan economy has been wrecked, largely because of Israeli bombing. (Israel has suffered no damage of this kind for none of her neighbors have operational air forces.) It will be sentential to revitalize the East Jordan economy, because it is unlikely that the West Bank will accommodate all the refugees. Some, who so wish, should be able to find jobs and a permanent livelihood in East Jordan.
u2Kitty: THE SOLUTION Post from Solitare in previous thread..
1. Israeli withdrawal to the pre-1967 border. This withdrawal should be accompanied by an Egypto-Jordanian declaration recognizing the existence of Israel, and promising free navigation of the Suez Canal and the Straits of Tiran. The withdrawal is the only obligation incumbent on Israel.
2. Occupation by Neutral Troops As soon as Israel withdraws, the areas between the Jordan River and the Israeli border( hereafter referred to as the West Bank) should immediately be occupied by neutral troops Smaller detachments could also be placed at Al Arish and Sharm al Shaikh.. The Jordan government could provide civil servants and police for the West Bank, but the Jordan army should remain east of the Jordan River.
3. RESETTLEMENT OF THE REFUGEES The heart of the problem does not lie in making peace between Israel, Egypt and Jordan, but in the resettlement of the native population of Palestine, who have been forcibly evicted from their country.
4.Constructive Projects When Israel has withdrawn to the pre-1967 line, one-fifth of the area of Palestine will be freed to accommodate the population which previously occupied the whole country. A consortium of Great Powers, presumably under the auspices of the United Nations, should then undertake to develop this area to enable it to carry a larger population. The Palestinians are good farmers but, of course, have no capital. Nor have they the technical knowledge to undertake major projects. Considerable agricultural development and a certain amount of industrialization are possible in this area.
5. Provision Of Capital and Technical Control The Powers concerned will have to supply the technical control and the necessary capital. It is useless to say that Israel should pay compensation. Israel is not herself vaible, but lives on funds collected from abroad. It is likewise useless to pay compensation to individual refugees. The only solution is for the Powers to execute major development projects, and then to offer the refugees homes, land and employment.
6. Reconstruction of Jordan Funds should also be provided for the re-construction and development of Jordan east of the river. The Jordan economy has been wrecked, largely because of Israeli bombing. (Israel has suffered no damage of this kind for none of her neighbors have operational air forces.) It will be sentential to revitalize the East Jordan economy, because it is unlikely that the West Bank will accommodate all the refugees. Some, who so wish, should be able to find jobs and a permanent livelihood in East Jordan.
u2KittyClose to the ocean, South Denmark Denmark974 posts
7. Time Required for Implementation This settlement, involving the necessary surveys, drawing-up of projects and the execution of the work, will probably occupy between five and ten tears. Neutral troops should remain in the area until the work is completed and all is quiet.
8. Political Future of the West Bank At some point, after five or ten years or when the settlement is complete, the Palestinians establishes on the West Bank should be allowed to decide by plebiscite or other means, on their own political future.
9. Exchange of Territory The Gaza Strip should be annexed to Israel and an equivalent area of cultivatable soil west of the Jordan be surrendered by her in return. If Israel wishes to retain the Amwas-Latrun area, an equal area of cultivatable land west of the Jordan should be given in exchange. The following could be suitable areas: 1. The area between Beisan and the Jordan 2. The Israeli colonies south of the Sea of Galilee. 3. The Israeli colonies north of Lake Hula. Israel should evacuate the Golan Heights. The basis of which border exchanges should be arranged should be to provide land to resettle the refugees, not to bow to Israel's demands for strategic positions. The only ultimate and permanent security for Israel lies in amicable relations with her neighbors, not in piling up armaments and in expansion to secure "strategic frontiers".
u2Kitty: THE SOLUTION Post from Solitare in previous thread..
1. Israeli withdrawal to the pre-1967 border. This withdrawal should be accompanied by an Egypto-Jordanian declaration recognizing the existence of Israel, and promising free navigation of the Suez Canal and the Straits of Tiran. The withdrawal is the only obligation incumbent on Israel.
2. Occupation by Neutral Troops As soon as Israel withdraws, the areas between the Jordan River and the Israeli border( hereafter referred to as the West Bank) should immediately be occupied by neutral troops Smaller detachments could also be placed at Al Arish and Sharm al Shaikh.. The Jordan government could provide civil servants and police for the West Bank, but the Jordan army should remain east of the Jordan River.
3. RESETTLEMENT OF THE REFUGEES The heart of the problem does not lie in making peace between Israel, Egypt and Jordan, but in the resettlement of the native population of Palestine, who have been forcibly evicted from their country.
4.Constructive Projects When Israel has withdrawn to the pre-1967 line, one-fifth of the area of Palestine will be freed to accommodate the population which previously occupied the whole country. A consortium of Great Powers, presumably under the auspices of the United Nations, should then undertake to develop this area to enable it to carry a larger population. The Palestinians are good farmers but, of course, have no capital. Nor have they the technical knowledge to undertake major projects. Considerable agricultural development and a certain amount of industrialization are possible in this area.
5. Provision Of Capital and Technical Control The Powers concerned will have to supply the technical control and the necessary capital. It is useless to say that Israel should pay compensation. Israel is not herself vaible, but lives on funds collected from abroad. It is likewise useless to pay compensation to individual refugees. The only solution is for the Powers to execute major development projects, and then to offer the refugees homes, land and employment.
6. Reconstruction of Jordan Funds should also be provided for the re-construction and development of Jordan east of the river. The Jordan economy has been wrecked, largely because of Israeli bombing. (Israel has suffered no damage of this kind for none of her neighbors have operational air forces.) It will be sentential to revitalize the East Jordan economy, because it is unlikely that the West Bank will accommodate all the refugees. Some, who so wish, should be able to find jobs and a permanent livelihood in East Jordan.
You are giving things Isreal already gotten the past. Egypt and Jordan both made peace with Irsreal and recognized Isreal's right to exists.
u2Kitty: 7. Time Required for Implementation This settlement, involving the necessary surveys, drawing-up of projects and the execution of the work, will probably occupy between five and ten tears. Neutral troops should remain in the area until the work is completed and all is quiet.
8. Political Future of the West Bank At some point, after five or ten years or when the settlement is complete, the Palestinians establishes on the West Bank should be allowed to decide by plebiscite or other means, on their own political future.
9. Exchange of Territory The Gaza Strip should be annexed to Israel and an equivalent area of cultivatable soil west of the Jordan be surrendered by her in return. If Israel wishes to retain the Amwas-Latrun area, an equal area of cultivatable land west of the Jordan should be given in exchange. The following could be suitable areas: 1. The area between Beisan and the Jordan 2. The Israeli colonies south of the Sea of Galilee. 3. The Israeli colonies north of Lake Hula. Israel should evacuate the Golan Heights. The basis of which border exchanges should be arranged should be to provide land to resettle the refugees, not to bow to Israel's demands for strategic positions. The only ultimate and permanent security for Israel lies in amicable relations with her neighbors, not in piling up armaments and in expansion to secure "strategic frontiers".
I am not sure Hamas is going to like number 9. Isreal annexing GAZA sounds allot like occupation of Gaza.
u2KittyClose to the ocean, South Denmark Denmark974 posts
I would also like to mention (again) that Israel still doesn`t have a constitution.. Which in their case becomes very appropriate in the light of their politics.
Discrimination against minorities is easy since there is no protection within the law. Their rights doesn`t exist.
But for Israels government to set up a constitution would be a hard balance of compromises. And compromises are just not their strongest abilities..
There has been made a proposed constitution from the Israeli Democracy Institute which is being formed of compromises, but it is so far rejected.
Because of the lack of a constitution - freedom of speech will also be limited. No laws protects the right for different views - and here I speak of journalist and politicians who doesn`t support the far right core in the government. So the critism is effectively silenced, except for those living abroad. (Which gives remindings of the status of Iran!)
Why is it not possible to come up with a constitution for Israel?? Simply because the Zionists doesn`t want to compromise.
Here`s an extract from jcpa.org:
Beyond the Basic Laws, other legislation has constitutional implications and is so treated. Thus the Knesset has constitutionalized the definition of who is a Jew for immigration and registration purposes through the Law of Return. Its resolution of that issue is periodically called into question and has been given stronger constitutional status through court interpretation and through the reluctance of the Knesset itself to change what it has done even when pressed hard to do so.
Similarly, the evolving relationship between Israel and the Jewish people has been constitutionalized through a covenant negotiated with the World Zionist Organization and the Jewish Agency, and enacted as legislation by the Knesset (see Table 1). That covenant, concluded between the Government of Israel and the World Zionist Execu-tive in its role at that time as the directorate of the Jewish Agency, allocated functions between the two bodies and made it clear that the Agency was not a state institution but a national one (that is, one that belongs to the whole Jewish people). This covenant was supplemented by a joint declaration in 1960 which specified that "the State of Israel sees itself as the creation of the Jewish People in total, and expects efforts from the ZWF's (Zionist World Federation) side to reach the unity of the nation for the State...."10 Subsequent agreements have transferred other functions to the state and have altered the structure of the Agency to make it more representative of the Jewish people as a whole, but the basic constitutional framework remains the foundation of the federal pattern which Israel and its diaspora partners are fostering as a means of unifying world Jewry.
Wow_FactorLondon, Greater London, England UK3,698 posts
Israel never should have given up Gaza in the first place. They have been suffering since, not to mention those poor citizens uprooted from their homes and businesses. Christians would be driven out of any Palestinian state for fear of persecution.
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This , with the recent moves by the Palestines to petition the United Nations to declare , once and for all, that the settlements are , in fact, illegal will finally force the Zionists to accept what the world has been saying for years.