Palestinian Statehood at Last ( Archived) (841)

Jan 2, 2011 1:32 PM CST Palestinian Statehood at Last
u2Kitty: I would also like to mention (again) that Israel still doesn`t have a constitution.. Which in their case becomes very appropriate in the light of their politics.

Discrimination against minorities is easy since there is no protection within the law. Their rights doesn`t exist.

But for Israels government to set up a constitution would be a hard balance of compromises. And compromises are just not their strongest abilities..

There has been made a proposed constitution from the Israeli Democracy Institute which is being formed of compromises, but it is so far rejected.

Because of the lack of a constitution - freedom of speech will also be limited. No laws protects the right for different views - and here I speak of journalist and politicians who doesn`t support the far right core in the government.
So the critism is effectively silenced, except for those living abroad. (Which gives remindings of the status of Iran!)

Why is it not possible to come up with a constitution for Israel??
Simply because the Zionists doesn`t want to compromise.

Here`s an extract from jcpa.org:

Beyond the Basic Laws, other legislation has constitutional implications and is so treated. Thus the Knesset has constitutionalized the definition of who is a Jew for immigration and registration purposes through the Law of Return. Its resolution of that issue is periodically called into question and has been given stronger constitutional status through court interpretation and through the reluctance of the Knesset itself to change what it has done even when pressed hard to do so.

Similarly, the evolving relationship between Israel and the Jewish people has been constitutionalized through a covenant negotiated with the World Zionist Organization and the Jewish Agency, and enacted as legislation by the Knesset (see Table 1). That covenant, concluded between the Government of Israel and the World Zionist Execu-tive in its role at that time as the directorate of the Jewish Agency, allocated functions between the two bodies and made it clear that the Agency was not a state institution but a national one (that is, one that belongs to the whole Jewish people). This covenant was supplemented by a joint declaration in 1960 which specified that "the State of Israel sees itself as the creation of the Jewish People in total, and expects efforts from the ZWF's (Zionist World Federation) side to reach the unity of the nation for the State...."10 Subsequent agreements have transferred other functions to the state and have altered the structure of the Agency to make it more representative of the Jewish people as a whole, but the basic constitutional framework remains the foundation of the federal pattern which Israel and its diaspora partners are fostering as a means of unifying world Jewry.
What's that got to do with anything?laugh
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Jan 2, 2011 1:35 PM CST Palestinian Statehood at Last
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
Some recent online news......as to why this thread has been posted....might be in order.

Netanhyu just said he would sit down to "continuous talks" with Abbas/Palestines to make peace. So Israel played a trump card on the stalled peace talks.

If Netanyhu get his way.....Iran, Hezbolloh, Hamas......will not have any time to muster a counter offensive to deter the talks to peace agreement.

Netanyhu is a much younger man than Abbas.....so he can stand the 72+ hour straight negotiation. Meaning to get out the room for a nap, Abbas might be willing to make concessions that normally he would not. Also not in the interest of Hamas, Hezbolloh or Iran....all who want the Palestine issue to be theirs.

The interestnig thing.....in checking times on this....Netanyhu negotiation challenge was made at 11 ET......SB posted the thread at around 1:30 ET.....biting your nails, SB? Pretty fast on the response.....

SB.....just remember who told you a Middle East peace agreement was coming.....laugh rolling on the floor laughing grin..if I remember right....I said something to the effect of early next year....spring time at the latest..... laugh rolling on the floor laughing
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Jan 2, 2011 1:39 PM CST Palestinian Statehood at Last
ttom500: Some recent online news......as to why this thread has been posted....might be in order.

Netanhyu just said he would sit down to "continuous talks" with Abbas/Palestines to make peace. So Israel played a trump card on the stalled peace talks.

If Netanyhu get his way.....Iran, Hezbolloh, Hamas......will not have any time to muster a counter offensive to deter the talks to peace agreement.

Netanyhu is a much younger man than Abbas.....so he can stand the 72+ hour straight negotiation. Meaning to get out the room for a nap, Abbas might be willing to make concessions that normally he would not. Also not in the interest of Hamas, Hezbolloh or Iran....all who want the Palestine issue to be theirs.

The interestnig thing.....in checking times on this....Netanyhu negotiation challenge was made at 11 ET......SB posted the thread at around 1:30 ET.....biting your nails, SB? Pretty fast on the response.....

SB.....just remember who told you a Middle East peace agreement was coming..... ..if I remember right....I said something to the effect of early next year....spring time at the latest.....
Besides,Abbas is not even the elected Leader!grin

Really nobody there to even talk with.

Gonna get interesting!rolling on the floor laughing
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Jan 2, 2011 1:39 PM CST Palestinian Statehood at Last
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
Wow_Factor: Israel never should have given up Gaza in the first place. They have been suffering since, not to mention those poor citizens uprooted from their homes and businesses. Christians would be driven out of any Palestinian state for fear of persecution.


I disagree Wow. Not often but this time I do.

Gaza was to far a deployment for the IDF to make to protect the Isreali settlers. To do so, the IDF would have to traveled along several limiting roads....all mined and ambushed on.

Giving GAZA back was a smart move. It said that Isreal could and would give land back. Even to enemies.handshake cheers
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Jan 2, 2011 1:44 PM CST Palestinian Statehood at Last
Wow_Factor
Wow_FactorWow_FactorLondon, Greater London, England UK45 Threads 3,698 Posts
Ah, I forgot, you have an interest and knowledge of military matters that I don't. Fair enough. handshake
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Jan 2, 2011 1:50 PM CST Palestinian Statehood at Last
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
Conrad73: Besides,Abbas is not even the elected Leader!

Really nobody there to even talk with.

Gonna get interesting!


GEE Conrad..think I need to get that deal maker idea.....of the US funding the making of Rawabi to the White House? Since this is moving along so well....I cannot snail mail it. I better send a email.....and save the stamp.laugh rolling on the floor laughing grin
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Jan 2, 2011 1:52 PM CST Palestinian Statehood at Last
ttom500: GEE Conrad..think I need to get that deal maker idea.....of the US funding the making of Rawabi to the White House? Since this is moving along so well....I cannot snail mail it. I better send a email.....and save the stamp.
laugh thumbs up grin
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Jan 2, 2011 2:14 PM CST Palestinian Statehood at Last
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
hijack I have to admit SB...this thread has been a pleasure to hi jack for time. Some of us have been waiting for and praying for middle east peace for a long time.

I know you have mixed feelings right now. And part wants the struggle to continue. Or wants the Palestines to get the best deal
possible.

Peace is good for them both, SB.....it will help the entire region develop economically. And will save lives on both sides.

I don't mind you taking the "two state solution" and claiming it is a international community idea. The idea has been out there for many years and has been discussed greatly in the international community.

No one in the US gov't will claim it is their idea either. That I can think of. So if the international community wants it to be theirs idea....no problem here.

Peace.
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Jan 2, 2011 2:18 PM CST Palestinian Statehood at Last
Wow_Factor
Wow_FactorWow_FactorLondon, Greater London, England UK45 Threads 3,698 Posts
Perhaps this will be a thread without conflict. Our wishes for a peaceful 2011 also extends to these threads on CS.
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Jan 2, 2011 2:24 PM CST Palestinian Statehood at Last
Wow_Factor: Perhaps this will be a thread without conflict. Our wishes for a peaceful 2011 also extends to these threads on CS.
Wanna bet on it?laugh
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Jan 2, 2011 2:26 PM CST Palestinian Statehood at Last
Wow_Factor
Wow_FactorWow_FactorLondon, Greater London, England UK45 Threads 3,698 Posts
Conrad73: Wanna bet on it?


Opps I am the eternal optmist.
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Jan 2, 2011 2:31 PM CST Palestinian Statehood at Last
SilverBirch: With the present Zionist mindset firmly in place the only chance for viable "Two-State solution" is for a unilateral move by the Palestine s , in concert with the international community to create their own state.
This , with the recent moves by the Palestines to petition the United Nations to declare , once and for all, that the settlements are , in fact, illegal will finally force the Zionists to accept what the world has been saying for years.

You're grasping at Straws,as usual!
Your Comrades had the same opportunity in '48 as the Israelis did!
But unlike the Israelis,the Palestinians chose to piss it against the wall,as usual!
Now the Morons are wailing they been shortchanged!
When actually they FARKED (SB) their own selves!
That's the dirty little Secret you try to bury!

Actually I feel more like crying,when I think about the Crapola the Pali-Leaders supported by sundry Arab-Leaders served to their own People!
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Jan 2, 2011 2:41 PM CST Palestinian Statehood at Last
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
The dealer maker is all submitted.....now we cross our fingers and say a little prayer.....sad flower
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Jan 2, 2011 3:05 PM CST Palestinian Statehood at Last
ttom500: Some recent online news......as to why this thread has been posted....might be in order.

Netanhyu just said he would sit down to "continuous talks" with Abbas/Palestines to make peace. So Israel played a trump card on the stalled peace talks.

If Netanyhu get his way.....Iran, Hezbolloh, Hamas......will not have any time to muster a counter offensive to deter the talks to peace agreement.

Netanyhu is a much younger man than Abbas.....so he can stand the 72+ hour straight negotiation. Meaning to get out the room for a nap, Abbas might be willing to make concessions that normally he would not. Also not in the interest of Hamas, Hezbolloh or Iran....all who want the Palestine issue to be theirs.

The interestnig thing.....in checking times on this....Netanyhu negotiation challenge was made at 11 ET......SB posted the thread at around 1:30 ET.....biting your nails, SB? Pretty fast on the response.....

SB.....just remember who told you a Middle East peace agreement was coming..... ..if I remember right....I said something to the effect of early next year....spring time at the latest.....



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Jan 2, 2011 5:36 PM CST Palestinian Statehood at Last
Adrummer90
Adrummer90Adrummer90somewhere, New Hampshire USA2 Threads 1 Polls 107 Posts
Interesting that Netanyahu won't stop settlement construction but still wants to talk Peace? Kind of a Oxymoron don't you think?
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Jan 2, 2011 5:40 PM CST Palestinian Statehood at Last
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA30 Threads 5 Polls 10,523 Posts
Adrummer90: Interesting that Netanyahu won't stop settlement construction but still wants to talk Peace? Kind of a Oxymoron don't you think?


Is Abbas talking using Isreali materials to make Rawabi a oxymoron?
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Jan 2, 2011 5:54 PM CST Palestinian Statehood at Last
Albertaghost
AlbertaghostAlbertaghostCultural Wasteland, Alberta Canada76 Threads 5 Polls 5,914 Posts
SilverBirch: With the present Zionist mindset firmly in place the only chance for viable "Two-State solution" is for a unilateral move by the Palestine s , in concert with the international community to create their own state.


Hey Silverdrummer, when do we get to see

"------this post removed by moderator------"

in every second post of yours like the last idiot thread? rolling on the floor laughing
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Jan 2, 2011 6:43 PM CST Palestinian Statehood at Last
solitare
solitaresolitareBariloche, Rio Negro Argentina40 Threads 4,041 Posts
Perhaps this will be a thread without conflict. Our wishes for a peaceful 2011 also extends to these threads on CS.[/quote

]Were the early Zionists planning on living side by side with Arabs?

In 1919, the American King-Crane Commission spent six weeks in Syria and Palestine, interviewing delegations and reading petitions. Their report stated, “The commissioners began their study of Zionism with minds predisposed in its favor...The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission’s conferences with Jewish representatives that the Zionists looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine, by various forms of purchase...

“If principle [of self-determination] is to rule, and so the wishes of Palestine’s population are to be decisive as to what is to be done with Palestine, then it is to be remembered that the non-Jewish population of Palestine — nearly nine-tenths of the whole — are emphatically against the entire Zionist program.. To subject a people so minded to unlimited Jewish immigration, and to steady financial and social pressure to surrender the land, would be a gross violation of the principle just quoted...No British officers, consulted by the Commissioners, believed that the Zionist program could be carried out except by force of arms.The officers generally thought that a force of not less than fifty thousand soldiers would be required even to initiate the program. That of itself is evidence of a strong sense of the injustice of the Zionist program...The initial claim, often submitted by Zionist representatives, that they have a ‘right’ to Palestine based on occupation of two thousand years ago, can barely be seriously considered.” Quoted in “The Israel-Arab Reader” ed. Laquer and Rubin.

Side by side — continued

“Zionist land policy was incorporated in the Constitution of the Jewish Agency for Palestine...’land is to be acquired as Jewish property and..the title to the lands acquired is to be taken in the name of the Jewish National Fund, to the end that the same shall be held as the inalienable property of the Jewish people.’ The provision goes to stipulate that ‘the Agency shall promote agricultural colonization based on Jewish labor’...The effect of this Zionist colonization policy on the Arabs was that land acquired by Jews became extra-territorialized. It ceased to be land from which the Arabs could ever hope to gain any advantage...

“The Zionists made no secret of their intentions, for as early as 1921, Dr. Eder, a member of the Zionist Commission, boldly told the Court of Inquiry, ‘there can be only one National Home in Palestine, and that a Jewish one, and no equality in the partnership between Jews and Arabs, but a Jewish preponderance as soon as the numbers of the race are sufficiently increased.’ He then asked that only Jews should be allowed to bear arms.” Sami Hadawi, “Bitter Harvest.”

wine





Not hatred but truth...as told by the Jews for Justice....
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Jan 2, 2011 6:49 PM CST Palestinian Statehood at Last
solitare
solitaresolitareBariloche, Rio Negro Argentina40 Threads 4,041 Posts
I will use a quote I myself heard in an open hearing in Toronto back in 1985, I believe at the offices of the 'human rights' tribunal case against those (despicable) racial hating 'white power' groups and their recorded telephone messages. Regarding the claims of the veracity of the messages, especially against Jews and Zionists, the commissioner stated that "Truth is not the issue, but publishing them or by broadcasting them is a crime".
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Jan 2, 2011 7:00 PM CST Palestinian Statehood at Last
Albertaghost
AlbertaghostAlbertaghostCultural Wasteland, Alberta Canada76 Threads 5 Polls 5,914 Posts
solitare: Perhaps this will be a thread without conflict. Our wishes for a peaceful 2011 also extends to these threads on CS.

Were the early Zionists planning on living side by side with Arabs?


Dunno how that relates to now but this here has a bit more relevance as nothing has changed since;

Arab League Secretary-General Azzam Pasha; "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades"professor
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