The true meaning of Jeses' message and what really happened (109)
psychochicken6: One of the reasons people do not believe the bible is because they can't bear to give up what they love
we all serve somebody, willingly or not.
we all serve somebody, willingly or not.
That is so true and a very good point.
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Music_Is_Life: I have posted this before but it seems a good place to reiterate this..
The bible is not believable for a number of other key reasons..
The things you have to bear in mind it
1. The scriptures weren’t written till up to 200 years after Jesus's death
2. The stories of his life will have be passed by mouth for those 2 centuries
3. Stories sound better when you add the element of magic and mystery and are embellished
4. The scriptures were written by people who believed he was the messiah and they would have ensured that that view was the only one presented within them
5. The church has rewritten sections to match their wants over the past 2 millennium and translated things in a way favourable to support their own beliefs.Some people attempt to re-write history to suite their belief systems. The fact is that the writers of the 4 gospels chosen to be in the New Testament were not direct disciples of Jesus nor were they alive when he was. There were hundreds of different gospels written in the 200 years after the death of Jesus my many writers and most of them were attributed to the original disciples as well as both Mary's. The Gospel of John found in our modern bible was written around 150 AD. (And not by John the disciple who was already dead at the time).
Of the hundreds written, the 4 gospels selected to be included in the New Testament were chosen under very suspicious circumstances in the 4th century for political reasons. It was written and edited by the council of Nicaea during the reign of the pagan king Constantine. Constantine wanted everyone united under a single religion so there would be no uprisings so he had the bible complied, edited and written to meet this need. One could safely assume they picked the ones with the enhancements and embellishments that support the idea of him being the true Messiah.
There is plenty of evidence that suggests Jesus was crucified next to two members of the ‘Lestai’.
The King James version translates this as thieves but in reality the men who were crucified with Jesus were members of the Fourth Philosophy (a Jewish sect that rebelled against Rome) who took the name of Lestai. The were otherwise knowd as the 'Nazarians' after the town they came from Nazereth.
The members of the Fourth Philosophy were normally always crucified because they were rebels against Rome. Given the fact he came from Nazereth and was crucified with these two Nazarians, there is a strong possiblity he was associated with this rebel movement.
If you are truly interested there are hundreds of books and scholarly articles written on early Christian history and it is a very interesting subject. You might start with ‘Christian Anti-Semitism, A History of Hate’ by William Nichols and ‘The Rise and Fall of the Judean State’ by Solomon Zeitlin
Hope this helps
The bible is not believable for a number of other key reasons..
The things you have to bear in mind it
1. The scriptures weren’t written till up to 200 years after Jesus's death
2. The stories of his life will have be passed by mouth for those 2 centuries
3. Stories sound better when you add the element of magic and mystery and are embellished
4. The scriptures were written by people who believed he was the messiah and they would have ensured that that view was the only one presented within them
5. The church has rewritten sections to match their wants over the past 2 millennium and translated things in a way favourable to support their own beliefs.Some people attempt to re-write history to suite their belief systems. The fact is that the writers of the 4 gospels chosen to be in the New Testament were not direct disciples of Jesus nor were they alive when he was. There were hundreds of different gospels written in the 200 years after the death of Jesus my many writers and most of them were attributed to the original disciples as well as both Mary's. The Gospel of John found in our modern bible was written around 150 AD. (And not by John the disciple who was already dead at the time).
Of the hundreds written, the 4 gospels selected to be included in the New Testament were chosen under very suspicious circumstances in the 4th century for political reasons. It was written and edited by the council of Nicaea during the reign of the pagan king Constantine. Constantine wanted everyone united under a single religion so there would be no uprisings so he had the bible complied, edited and written to meet this need. One could safely assume they picked the ones with the enhancements and embellishments that support the idea of him being the true Messiah.
There is plenty of evidence that suggests Jesus was crucified next to two members of the ‘Lestai’.
The King James version translates this as thieves but in reality the men who were crucified with Jesus were members of the Fourth Philosophy (a Jewish sect that rebelled against Rome) who took the name of Lestai. The were otherwise knowd as the 'Nazarians' after the town they came from Nazereth.
The members of the Fourth Philosophy were normally always crucified because they were rebels against Rome. Given the fact he came from Nazereth and was crucified with these two Nazarians, there is a strong possiblity he was associated with this rebel movement.
If you are truly interested there are hundreds of books and scholarly articles written on early Christian history and it is a very interesting subject. You might start with ‘Christian Anti-Semitism, A History of Hate’ by William Nichols and ‘The Rise and Fall of the Judean State’ by Solomon Zeitlin
Hope this helps
From what I have read and understand Matthew, one of the New Testament books and one of the 4 gospels was written between 60 and 70 AD. This was within 100 years of the death of Jesus.
It is also my understanding that the Romans crucified Jesus.
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AgentAjax: yeah Im sure there is enough literature but I said there was no legitimate proof
Based on what? I doubt you have heard of Geza Vermes.
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revealer24: Based on what? I doubt you have heard of Geza Vermes.
Pseudepigraphic scriptures hardly stand for evidence.
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rubendario:
There are many authors now who have done their research and have published their findings and have come to some very interesting theories. The interesting thing about many of these authors is that they have received some of their researched revelations via an outside supernatural influence either through channelling, dreams, extraterrestrial or other paranormal means.
There are many authors now who have done their research and have published their findings and have come to some very interesting theories. The interesting thing about many of these authors is that they have received some of their researched revelations via an outside supernatural influence either through channelling, dreams, extraterrestrial or other paranormal means.
Consider their source. Familiar spirits are more knowledgeable than any of us.
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I think it is possible that the Jesus character, was created by Romans, that he was a Roman agent. Now if we look at the political situation at that time, it was very fiery, Jews were all the time revolting against Rome, often the uprisings were fuelled not just by patriotism so to speak, but also by the Religion. Now Romans knew, that the messiah is to come, to help the Jews. So why not have their “own” Messiah, that will be accepting Roman rule, and uniting the Jews - - - - thus pacifying the land, with the help of a new religion, or revolutionised Jewish religion - - - the process, that of course can not happen over night.
To continue . . . . Romans had Jesus guy, under their control, official Jewish priests of course didn't like the guy, cos he was pointing out the corruption of the clergy, and gaining support. He was not speaking out against Roman rule at all . . . .it was all about the corruption of the “current” Religion - - - - - He got tried, and crucified, in accordance of Roman law - - - - What easy way to spur the new belief system, then by creating a martyr.
Now here comes the strange thing ( Forget what bible says when it comes to all the Fairy tales about his path, and crown of thorns and other BS, that is utter fake rubbish ). He got taken off the cross before he died, ( and the stabbing with a spear, is also in my opinion made up ). - - - - He got taken off, and simply declared dead, even thou, he might be as very well alive. To clarify - - - - they didn't always nail people to the cross, they also just tied them to the cross, and left them there to die from hunger and thirst - - - - So it is easy to presume, if you look through the eyes of Ancient Roman Law, ( That I am studying at the moment ), and through the eyes of political system at that time + mentality of the people one could assume that this kind of - - - reasoning is possible - - -
BUT - - and there is a big BUT - - Not one Roman historian ever mentions Jesus, and Christians are mentioned just in passing. Not ONE Ancient Roman historian mentions ANYTHING AT ALL, about ANY stories, that are mentioned in the bible, that happened during Roman Times - - - And there are many of Roman Historians that their works were left for posterity. There is one “historian” however, of that time, that does speak of Jesus, BUT, he was a clergy man of a new official Roman Religion, so his word is again very biased, and should be doubted. There are absolutely no Archaeological evidence at all, nor any other written records about Jesus, and anything that bible speaks of - - - - So in the end, I actually seriously doubt, actually I do not even believe, that Jesus lived, and if he did, he definitely did NOT exist in any way, shape or form, as the bible is presenting him - - - - - Either the man is a fiction of imagination, or he was a Roman creation, or he was just one of many of that times, that were walking the earth, calling them selves Messiah. The same way so many TV Preachers are doing today in the states . . . . . that being said, the bible is the last book one should take it as historically accurate, as it was and is time and again proven, that it is all made up, or certain events were taken in, and were distorted, and blown out of proportion . . . one has to understand about how people thought and saw the world, when the bible was written . . .
To continue . . . . Romans had Jesus guy, under their control, official Jewish priests of course didn't like the guy, cos he was pointing out the corruption of the clergy, and gaining support. He was not speaking out against Roman rule at all . . . .it was all about the corruption of the “current” Religion - - - - - He got tried, and crucified, in accordance of Roman law - - - - What easy way to spur the new belief system, then by creating a martyr.
Now here comes the strange thing ( Forget what bible says when it comes to all the Fairy tales about his path, and crown of thorns and other BS, that is utter fake rubbish ). He got taken off the cross before he died, ( and the stabbing with a spear, is also in my opinion made up ). - - - - He got taken off, and simply declared dead, even thou, he might be as very well alive. To clarify - - - - they didn't always nail people to the cross, they also just tied them to the cross, and left them there to die from hunger and thirst - - - - So it is easy to presume, if you look through the eyes of Ancient Roman Law, ( That I am studying at the moment ), and through the eyes of political system at that time + mentality of the people one could assume that this kind of - - - reasoning is possible - - -
BUT - - and there is a big BUT - - Not one Roman historian ever mentions Jesus, and Christians are mentioned just in passing. Not ONE Ancient Roman historian mentions ANYTHING AT ALL, about ANY stories, that are mentioned in the bible, that happened during Roman Times - - - And there are many of Roman Historians that their works were left for posterity. There is one “historian” however, of that time, that does speak of Jesus, BUT, he was a clergy man of a new official Roman Religion, so his word is again very biased, and should be doubted. There are absolutely no Archaeological evidence at all, nor any other written records about Jesus, and anything that bible speaks of - - - - So in the end, I actually seriously doubt, actually I do not even believe, that Jesus lived, and if he did, he definitely did NOT exist in any way, shape or form, as the bible is presenting him - - - - - Either the man is a fiction of imagination, or he was a Roman creation, or he was just one of many of that times, that were walking the earth, calling them selves Messiah. The same way so many TV Preachers are doing today in the states . . . . . that being said, the bible is the last book one should take it as historically accurate, as it was and is time and again proven, that it is all made up, or certain events were taken in, and were distorted, and blown out of proportion . . . one has to understand about how people thought and saw the world, when the bible was written . . .
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revealer24: I think there is sufficient historical evidence for his existence.
Really - - - - Where is this evidence then, tell us, show us the links - - - - anything - - -
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reb56: he gave us free will&god is love.
This is the biggest BS coup out excuse for not taking the responsibility to where it lies, in the fact that institution of religion is a criminal organization
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Faithfulness: From what I have read and understand Matthew, one of the New Testament books and one of the 4 gospels was written between 60 and 70 AD. This was within 100 years of the death of Jesus.
It is also my understanding that the Romans crucified Jesus.
It is also my understanding that the Romans crucified Jesus.
Says who, the bible, when there is absolutely no historical evidence what so ever that this guy even existed?
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signs of end times:horseless carriage or automobile(nahum2:3,4)
airplanes(Isaiah31:5),desert blossomingas arose(Isaiah35:1),alignmentof a ten nation western confederacy(daniel 2,7)
Knowledge explosion(daniel12:4),great increases in travel(daniel 12:4.these are signs out of the old testament so how would they know anything about an automobile or any of the signs given.
airplanes(Isaiah31:5),desert blossomingas arose(Isaiah35:1),alignmentof a ten nation western confederacy(daniel 2,7)
Knowledge explosion(daniel12:4),great increases in travel(daniel 12:4.these are signs out of the old testament so how would they know anything about an automobile or any of the signs given.
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54xmax: I think it is possible that the Jesus character, was created by Romans, that he was a Roman agent. Now if we look at the political situation at that time, it was very fiery, Jews were all the time revolting against Rome, often the uprisings were fuelled not just by patriotism so to speak, but also by the Religion. Now Romans knew, that the messiah is to come, to help the Jews. So why not have their “own” Messiah, that will be accepting Roman rule, and uniting the Jews - - - - thus pacifying the land, with the help of a new religion, or revolutionised Jewish religion - - - the process, that of course can not happen over night.
To continue . . . . Romans had Jesus guy, under their control, official Jewish priests of course didn't like the guy, cos he was pointing out the corruption of the clergy, and gaining support. He was not speaking out against Roman rule at all . . . .it was all about the corruption of the “current” Religion - - - - - He got tried, and crucified, in accordance of Roman law - - - - What easy way to spur the new belief system, then by creating a martyr.
Now here comes the strange thing ( Forget what bible says when it comes to all the Fairy tales about his path, and crown of thorns and other BS, that is utter fake rubbish ). He got taken off the cross before he died, ( and the stabbing with a spear, is also in my opinion made up ). - - - - He got taken off, and simply declared dead, even thou, he might be as very well alive. To clarify - - - - they didn't always nail people to the cross, they also just tied them to the cross, and left them there to die from hunger and thirst - - - - So it is easy to presume, if you look through the eyes of Ancient Roman Law, ( That I am studying at the moment ), and through the eyes of political system at that time + mentality of the people one could assume that this kind of - - - reasoning is possible - - -
BUT - - and there is a big BUT - - Not one Roman historian ever mentions Jesus, and Christians are mentioned just in passing. Not ONE Ancient Roman historian mentions ANYTHING AT ALL, about ANY stories, that are mentioned in the bible, that happened during Roman Times - - - And there are many of Roman Historians that their works were left for posterity. There is one “historian” however, of that time, that does speak of Jesus, BUT, he was a clergy man of a new official Roman Religion, so his word is again very biased, and should be doubted. There are absolutely no Archaeological evidence at all, nor any other written records about Jesus, and anything that bible speaks of - - - - So in the end, I actually seriously doubt, actually I do not even believe, that Jesus lived, and if he did, he definitely did NOT exist in any way, shape or form, as the bible is presenting him - - - - - Either the man is a fiction of imagination, or he was a Roman creation, or he was just one of many of that times, that were walking the earth, calling them selves Messiah. The same way so many TV Preachers are doing today in the states . . . . . that being said, the bible is the last book one should take it as historically accurate, as it was and is time and again proven, that it is all made up, or certain events were taken in, and were distorted, and blown out of proportion . . . one has to understand about how people thought and saw the world, when the bible was written . . .
To continue . . . . Romans had Jesus guy, under their control, official Jewish priests of course didn't like the guy, cos he was pointing out the corruption of the clergy, and gaining support. He was not speaking out against Roman rule at all . . . .it was all about the corruption of the “current” Religion - - - - - He got tried, and crucified, in accordance of Roman law - - - - What easy way to spur the new belief system, then by creating a martyr.
Now here comes the strange thing ( Forget what bible says when it comes to all the Fairy tales about his path, and crown of thorns and other BS, that is utter fake rubbish ). He got taken off the cross before he died, ( and the stabbing with a spear, is also in my opinion made up ). - - - - He got taken off, and simply declared dead, even thou, he might be as very well alive. To clarify - - - - they didn't always nail people to the cross, they also just tied them to the cross, and left them there to die from hunger and thirst - - - - So it is easy to presume, if you look through the eyes of Ancient Roman Law, ( That I am studying at the moment ), and through the eyes of political system at that time + mentality of the people one could assume that this kind of - - - reasoning is possible - - -
BUT - - and there is a big BUT - - Not one Roman historian ever mentions Jesus, and Christians are mentioned just in passing. Not ONE Ancient Roman historian mentions ANYTHING AT ALL, about ANY stories, that are mentioned in the bible, that happened during Roman Times - - - And there are many of Roman Historians that their works were left for posterity. There is one “historian” however, of that time, that does speak of Jesus, BUT, he was a clergy man of a new official Roman Religion, so his word is again very biased, and should be doubted. There are absolutely no Archaeological evidence at all, nor any other written records about Jesus, and anything that bible speaks of - - - - So in the end, I actually seriously doubt, actually I do not even believe, that Jesus lived, and if he did, he definitely did NOT exist in any way, shape or form, as the bible is presenting him - - - - - Either the man is a fiction of imagination, or he was a Roman creation, or he was just one of many of that times, that were walking the earth, calling them selves Messiah. The same way so many TV Preachers are doing today in the states . . . . . that being said, the bible is the last book one should take it as historically accurate, as it was and is time and again proven, that it is all made up, or certain events were taken in, and were distorted, and blown out of proportion . . . one has to understand about how people thought and saw the world, when the bible was written . . .
Max, Jesus wasn't subject to Roman Law~he wasn't a Roman citizen, merely a provincial.
Furthermore, you should read Tacitus & Suetonius for references to Jesus (Chrestus).
In addition, the First Revolt was under Nero (54-68AD) and the second under Hadrian (117-138AD). Jesus and Pilate existed during the reign of Tiberius (14-37AD).
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There has been much debate on the veracity of the passages in Tacitus, Suetonius & Josephus, however, we must remember that these are merely hypotheses and not immutable.
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AgentAjax: Pseudepigraphic scriptures hardly stand for evidence.
Let me put this to you. Do you believe Hannibal from Carthage invaded Roman Italy by crossing the Alps with Elephants?
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Boban1: I suspect that Jesus was a victim of a political assassination ,.My guesses are that we won`t find out his real words and ideas ,anytime soon
boban has a valid idea in my opinion
thus the translation of the bible I am most familiar with is the New English and, no, my head is not stuck in it but I like it as it contains good researach notes and the Apocrypha. What Jesus was trying to say (trying? he said it rather well) is - love others as you would like to be loved, show mercy, respect the humble as they will inherit the earth, we are all equals in the eyes of the father, when you wrong one man, you wrong us all, when you show love to one, that love will spread like the ripples on a pond.
It is best said in the versions in the Gospels of the Sermon on The Mount
In one word, Jesus commanded us to Love
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If you knew the guy so much you'd remember his name 
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Jesus is the truth and the light, to get to heaven all must go through him, for he is the lord and savior
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romanticman4u: Jesus is the truth and the light, to get to heaven all must go through him, for he is the lord and savior
Wow never heard that before...
Sure you didn't plagiarise
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54xmax: I think it is possible that the Jesus character, was created by Romans, that he was a Roman agent. Now if we look at the political situation at that time, it was very fiery, Jews were all the time revolting against Rome, often the uprisings were fuelled not just by patriotism so to speak, but also by the Religion. Now Romans knew, that the messiah is to come, to help the Jews. So why not have their “own” Messiah, that will be accepting Roman rule, and uniting the Jews - - - - thus pacifying the land, with the help of a new religion, or revolutionised Jewish religion - - - the process, that of course can not happen over night.
To continue . . . . Romans had Jesus guy, under their control, official Jewish priests of course didn't like the guy, cos he was pointing out the corruption of the clergy, and gaining support. He was not speaking out against Roman rule at all . . . .it was all about the corruption of the “current” Religion - - - - - He got tried, and crucified, in accordance of Roman law - - - - What easy way to spur the new belief system, then by creating a martyr.
Now here comes the strange thing ( Forget what bible says when it comes to all the Fairy tales about his path, and crown of thorns and other BS, that is utter fake rubbish ). He got taken off the cross before he died, ( and the stabbing with a spear, is also in my opinion made up ). - - - - He got taken off, and simply declared dead, even thou, he might be as very well alive. To clarify - - - - they didn't always nail people to the cross, they also just tied them to the cross, and left them there to die from hunger and thirst - - - - So it is easy to presume, if you look through the eyes of Ancient Roman Law, ( That I am studying at the moment ), and through the eyes of political system at that time + mentality of the people one could assume that this kind of - - - reasoning is possible - - -
BUT - - and there is a big BUT - - Not one Roman historian ever mentions Jesus, and Christians are mentioned just in passing. Not ONE Ancient Roman historian mentions ANYTHING AT ALL, about ANY stories, that are mentioned in the bible, that happened during Roman Times - - - And there are many of Roman Historians that their works were left for posterity. There is one “historian” however, of that time, that does speak of Jesus, BUT, he was a clergy man of a new official Roman Religion, so his word is again very biased, and should be doubted. There are absolutely no Archaeological evidence at all, nor any other written records about Jesus, and anything that bible speaks of - - - - So in the end, I actually seriously doubt, actually I do not even believe, that Jesus lived, and if he did, he definitely did NOT exist in any way, shape or form, as the bible is presenting him - - - - - Either the man is a fiction of imagination, or he was a Roman creation, or he was just one of many of that times, that were walking the earth, calling them selves Messiah. The same way so many TV Preachers are doing today in the states . . . . . that being said, the bible is the last book one should take it as historically accurate, as it was and is time and again proven, that it is all made up, or certain events were taken in, and were distorted, and blown out of proportion . . . one has to understand about how people thought and saw the world, when the bible was written . . .
To continue . . . . Romans had Jesus guy, under their control, official Jewish priests of course didn't like the guy, cos he was pointing out the corruption of the clergy, and gaining support. He was not speaking out against Roman rule at all . . . .it was all about the corruption of the “current” Religion - - - - - He got tried, and crucified, in accordance of Roman law - - - - What easy way to spur the new belief system, then by creating a martyr.
Now here comes the strange thing ( Forget what bible says when it comes to all the Fairy tales about his path, and crown of thorns and other BS, that is utter fake rubbish ). He got taken off the cross before he died, ( and the stabbing with a spear, is also in my opinion made up ). - - - - He got taken off, and simply declared dead, even thou, he might be as very well alive. To clarify - - - - they didn't always nail people to the cross, they also just tied them to the cross, and left them there to die from hunger and thirst - - - - So it is easy to presume, if you look through the eyes of Ancient Roman Law, ( That I am studying at the moment ), and through the eyes of political system at that time + mentality of the people one could assume that this kind of - - - reasoning is possible - - -
BUT - - and there is a big BUT - - Not one Roman historian ever mentions Jesus, and Christians are mentioned just in passing. Not ONE Ancient Roman historian mentions ANYTHING AT ALL, about ANY stories, that are mentioned in the bible, that happened during Roman Times - - - And there are many of Roman Historians that their works were left for posterity. There is one “historian” however, of that time, that does speak of Jesus, BUT, he was a clergy man of a new official Roman Religion, so his word is again very biased, and should be doubted. There are absolutely no Archaeological evidence at all, nor any other written records about Jesus, and anything that bible speaks of - - - - So in the end, I actually seriously doubt, actually I do not even believe, that Jesus lived, and if he did, he definitely did NOT exist in any way, shape or form, as the bible is presenting him - - - - - Either the man is a fiction of imagination, or he was a Roman creation, or he was just one of many of that times, that were walking the earth, calling them selves Messiah. The same way so many TV Preachers are doing today in the states . . . . . that being said, the bible is the last book one should take it as historically accurate, as it was and is time and again proven, that it is all made up, or certain events were taken in, and were distorted, and blown out of proportion . . . one has to understand about how people thought and saw the world, when the bible was written . . .
he lived in northern africa not rome and he lived before the roman empire
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as to the existence of Jesus I think it is important to remember that in the time that he did live, he was not a major player, but a carpenter and an annoyance - a rabble rouser and a drifter, a troublemaker
his popularity with the masses made him a noted pest and as a jew, best known in that community among the humble at the time so don;t expect to find references to him, really
his popularity with the masses made him a noted pest and as a jew, best known in that community among the humble at the time so don;t expect to find references to him, really
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There are many authors now who have done their research and have published their findings and have come to some very interesting theories. The interesting thing about many of these authors is that they have received some of their researched revelations via an outside supernatural influence either through channelling, dreams, extraterrestrial or other paranormal means. The interesting thing to me, is that those characters within the bible itself have received such revelations the very same way. Now many of these authors are very well educated and have also used Ancient History, Archeology, Anthropology, Linguistics, Mythology and Folklore, Physics, other Religions to support their point of view.
What's your theory? What was Jesus really trying to say?
If your head is stuck in-between the front and back cover of the bible and can't venture out, don't bother responding!
What Jesus was saying was fairly simple. Love one another in gods likeness..let Gods will be done...As above so below, so below as above. We all make mistakes in this life but the trick is to learn from them and become wiser. Its a bit like putting your hand in a fire, you get burnt, but are you really that stupid you want to do that again???. The ten commandments are really simple rules to follow, but most of us have broken a few, time to clean up our lives a little and live by them i think. Peace comes from remembering that only love is real, everything else is an illusion created in the mind of man/woman