Libya - Latest Updates Part III (526)
venere08: I'm confused, zeus. If it is so that this incident occurred in a malta search and rescue zone, I guess it becomes a mute point as to miles north/west/south or east of such incident.
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venere08: I'm confused, zeus. If it is so that this incident occurred in a malta search and rescue zone, I guess it becomes a mute point as to miles north/west/south or north of such incident. Why designate the zone at all, then? I do understand the logic, however. It can't be easy for Italy to take on all these illegal immigrants. As for Italian talk show television, it's what they do. You should see the circus they make of cases currently before the law, such as interviewing key witnesses on a TV variety show!! Completely crazy!!
Anyway, as you rightly said, it's not about scoring points, political ot otherwise.
Personally, a part of me wishes the allied western forces had never invaded. It all appears way too disorganised to come to any ultimate good. apart from saving truly persecuted peopleJMO
p.s. though I bet the non illegal immigrants can't believe their luck!!!!!
I quoted the distances so people get the picture of what's happening here. A vessel full of some 300 immigrants capsizes south of an Italian island with an Italian coastguard vessel in the vicinity but because the area lies within Malta's search and rescue zone Italy expects Malta to intervene when by the time a Maltese rescue vessel heads there it would obviously have been too late. We're talking of international salvage rules here, the nearest vessel is bound by maritime rules to change course and head to a vessel in distress. Being responsible of a search and rescue zone doesn't mean you have to have men and equipment ready all over the zone, but signifies monitoring that area and taking action.Anyway, as you rightly said, it's not about scoring points, political ot otherwise.
Personally, a part of me wishes the allied western forces had never invaded. It all appears way too disorganised to come to any ultimate good. apart from saving truly persecuted peopleJMO
p.s. though I bet the non illegal immigrants can't believe their luck!!!!!
Of course Italy has difficulties in taking in these refugees and it is also understandable that Italian people are exasperated by this situation but rather than blame Malta for all its woes, the country should take it against Europe who is too slow and too closed on this issue. In Malta we also don't like the situation but we don't blame any of our neighbours for what is happening, but do expect the international community to give us a helping hand. We just roll up our sleeves here and get on with it.
Frankly these political squabbles between the 2 countries are ridiculous especially when both of us are facing the same situation.
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zeus911: I quoted the distances so people get the picture of what's happening here. A vessel full of some 300 immigrants capsizes south of an Italian island with an Italian coastguard vessel in the vicinity but because the area lies within Malta's search and rescue zone Italy expects Malta to intervene when by the time a Maltese rescue vessel heads there it would obviously have been too late. We're talking of international salvage rules here, the nearest vessel is bound by maritime rules to change course and head to a vessel in distress. Being responsible of a search and rescue zone doesn't mean you have to have men and equipment ready all over the zone, but signifies monitoring that area and taking action.
Of course Italy has difficulties in taking in these refugees and it is also understandable that Italian people are exasperated by this situation but rather than blame Malta for all its woes, the country should take it against Europe who is too slow and too closed on this issue. In Malta we also don't like the situation but we don't blame any of our neighbours for what is happening, but do expect the international community to give us a helping hand. We just roll up our sleeves here and get on with it.
Frankly these political squabbles between the 2 countries are ridiculous especially when both of us are facing the same situation.
Of course Italy has difficulties in taking in these refugees and it is also understandable that Italian people are exasperated by this situation but rather than blame Malta for all its woes, the country should take it against Europe who is too slow and too closed on this issue. In Malta we also don't like the situation but we don't blame any of our neighbours for what is happening, but do expect the international community to give us a helping hand. We just roll up our sleeves here and get on with it.
Frankly these political squabbles between the 2 countries are ridiculous especially when both of us are facing the same situation.
Of-course all such squabbles are ridiculous. But unfortunately, no-one is listening. No-one else is offering any plausible constructive intervention. These two countries are left to the mercy of the politician. We all know that politicians are not renowned for their ability to offer anything too constructive. They should mostly be gagged when speaking to the media. We have a few here in Australia too. One is the leader of the Opposition. When he's about to be interviewed, everyone sits there squirming, no less memebers of his own Party. We just know he is going to put his big foot in it!
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Yesterday Abdel Fattah Younes, the defected head of the rebel military, confirmed for the first time that the opposition forces have received foreign weapons: anti-tank guns.
No, not from the US, France or Britain as most would assume but from arabic Qatar. The tiny but wealthy Gulf country has been at the forefront in supporting Benghazi and has even offered jets to participate in enforcing the no-fly zone, and is now assisting them in their attempts at selling crude oil.
No, not from the US, France or Britain as most would assume but from arabic Qatar. The tiny but wealthy Gulf country has been at the forefront in supporting Benghazi and has even offered jets to participate in enforcing the no-fly zone, and is now assisting them in their attempts at selling crude oil.
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Al Jazeera's Laurence Lee, in Benghazi, says reports are emerging that it might not have been NATO that hit a rebel armoured unit outside Brega the other day. He says it might instead have been a light plane used by Gaddafi forces, suggesting that they are getting arms from outside.
In the meantime Russell Harding, NATO's deputy commander of Libya operations, speaking on the incident which saw at least 5 rebel fighters killed, that before yesterday the alliance had no information that the opposition using tanks. He says the situation on the ground was very fluid and that he is "not apologising" for the strikes.
In the meantime Russell Harding, NATO's deputy commander of Libya operations, speaking on the incident which saw at least 5 rebel fighters killed, that before yesterday the alliance had no information that the opposition using tanks. He says the situation on the ground was very fluid and that he is "not apologising" for the strikes.
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A Maltese non-governmental charity organization "SOS Malta" has declared that it is suspending its aid missions to Libya until the Maltese Government guarantees that their mission is used solely for humanitarian purposes.
The charitable NGO had been operating humanitarian aid missions to the port of Misurata in Libya. The mission involved sending medicinals and food items descreetly to the besieged city of Misurata in great danger to all involved since the coastline was often monitored by Libyan gunships or armed militias.
The issue came up after a fishing trawler used in one such mission was used by former Libyan energy minister Omar Fathi bin Shatwan to escape to Malta with his family. It is not clear why the NGO is raising this issue but their protest seems to indicate that Maltese authorities were either aware of or may perhaps have coordinated Mr. Shatwan's escape on their vessel.
In a statement SOS Malta declared that it had always adhered to the core principles of humanitarian aid, namely, neutrality, impartiality, saving lives and alleviating suffering.
The charitable NGO had been operating humanitarian aid missions to the port of Misurata in Libya. The mission involved sending medicinals and food items descreetly to the besieged city of Misurata in great danger to all involved since the coastline was often monitored by Libyan gunships or armed militias.
The issue came up after a fishing trawler used in one such mission was used by former Libyan energy minister Omar Fathi bin Shatwan to escape to Malta with his family. It is not clear why the NGO is raising this issue but their protest seems to indicate that Maltese authorities were either aware of or may perhaps have coordinated Mr. Shatwan's escape on their vessel.
In a statement SOS Malta declared that it had always adhered to the core principles of humanitarian aid, namely, neutrality, impartiality, saving lives and alleviating suffering.
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The UN High Commission for Refugees said today that in view of the massive loss of life in the Mediterranean this week in a refugee boat capsizing, it was calling on the European Union to urgently put into place more reliable and effective mechanisms for rescue-at-sea.
More than 220 Somali, Eritrean and Ivorian refugees drowned early on Wednesday morning when their boat capsized some 39 nautical miles south of the Italian island of Lampedusa.
"This is the worst such incident in the Mediterranean in recent years" said Assistant High Commissioner for Protection Erika Feller where she expressed incomprehension at how refugees crossing land borders were receiving shelter and aid, while those fleeing Libya’s coastline did not appear to share the same priority.
"A longstanding tradition of saving lives at sea may be at risk if it becomes an issue of contention between states as to who rescues whom. That is why we urgently need a more operational and better functioning search and rescue mechanism," said Feller.
More than 220 Somali, Eritrean and Ivorian refugees drowned early on Wednesday morning when their boat capsized some 39 nautical miles south of the Italian island of Lampedusa.
"This is the worst such incident in the Mediterranean in recent years" said Assistant High Commissioner for Protection Erika Feller where she expressed incomprehension at how refugees crossing land borders were receiving shelter and aid, while those fleeing Libya’s coastline did not appear to share the same priority.
"A longstanding tradition of saving lives at sea may be at risk if it becomes an issue of contention between states as to who rescues whom. That is why we urgently need a more operational and better functioning search and rescue mechanism," said Feller.
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Little or no news has been coming out of Libya over the last 48 hours. Seems like ever since the head of Libyan rebel forces Abdelfatah Yunis threw heavy criticism towards the inefficiency of the coalition and subsequently Nato forces over Libya, the west has not taken too kindly to this criticism which was in itself a desperate cry for help.
As if that wasn't bad enough, Nato has since managed to bombard the rebel forces who are largely made up of untrained civilians taking up arms against a professional army, causing a number of victims amongst them. But Nato's projectiles did not risk causing shockwaves amongst the rebel lines as did todays statement by Nato Deputy Commander Rear Adm Russell Harding who said he is "not apologising" for the incident.
The fact that we've not heard much news surely does not mean there was any less fighting in the region. From the little that has been reported, it seems that somewhat of a stalemate still freezes the situation around the eastern cities of Brega and Ajdabiya where both sides are struggling desperately over a hardly shifting frontline, while fighting in Misurata has left some 5 people dead and several wounded with the rebels reporting minor wins.
In another report a Zintan resident told Reuters that NATO airstrikes have hit weapons depots belonging to Gaddafi's forces near the town.
As if that wasn't bad enough, Nato has since managed to bombard the rebel forces who are largely made up of untrained civilians taking up arms against a professional army, causing a number of victims amongst them. But Nato's projectiles did not risk causing shockwaves amongst the rebel lines as did todays statement by Nato Deputy Commander Rear Adm Russell Harding who said he is "not apologising" for the incident.
The fact that we've not heard much news surely does not mean there was any less fighting in the region. From the little that has been reported, it seems that somewhat of a stalemate still freezes the situation around the eastern cities of Brega and Ajdabiya where both sides are struggling desperately over a hardly shifting frontline, while fighting in Misurata has left some 5 people dead and several wounded with the rebels reporting minor wins.
In another report a Zintan resident told Reuters that NATO airstrikes have hit weapons depots belonging to Gaddafi's forces near the town.
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OMG how very frustrating. Someday, someone is going to have to explain to me again the importance of NATO and why anyone(Country) even cares to belong there. Everyone shouts that rules/regulations/laws and procedures need to be changed, but sadly nothing ever gets done..It is at time like these, that we remember we forgot.------ This thread is Archived ------
Back on the refugee issue, it seems Italy is causing quite a stir amongst its neighbors in its efforts to combat illegal immigrant entry onto its territory. This time however with its the main issues being with mainland Europe.
The latest issue stems from a plan put into action by Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi who following talks with the Tunisian Government has reached an unorthodox agreement. The agreement sees Italy promising assistance in the provision of boats and vehicles to Tunisia on condition that the latter country guards its border against further departures. However as part of the agreement Italy also agreed to offer all illegal immigrants arriving from that country temporary 6-month long residence permits on grounds of "humanitarian protection".
What this effectively means is that up to 20,000 Tunisian immigrant landed in Lampedusa over the last months will now have a freedom-of-movement all over Europe due to the Schengen Agreement (which effectively breaks down borders within EU Countries). With this move Italy hopes that most of these immigrants would have moved out of its territory within the said period and since most of the Tunisians' target would be France due to language and cultural backgrounds (Tunisia being an ex-French colony).
This has brought strong reactions from France which is threatening closure of its Italian border and with Italian internal affairs Minister Maroni accusing France of not respecting the Schengen treatment. Maroni's French counterpart Claude Gueant stated that it is not enough to have a residency permit, but that unless such migrants have identity papers and above all the means to support themselves France would send them back to Italy.
The move has also brought negative reactions from Germany which is also a prime target for many immigrants final destination. The country is accusing Italy of going against the spirit of the Schengen agreement. Germany now intends to raise the issue at the UE ministerial meeting in Brussels Monday.
The latest issue stems from a plan put into action by Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi who following talks with the Tunisian Government has reached an unorthodox agreement. The agreement sees Italy promising assistance in the provision of boats and vehicles to Tunisia on condition that the latter country guards its border against further departures. However as part of the agreement Italy also agreed to offer all illegal immigrants arriving from that country temporary 6-month long residence permits on grounds of "humanitarian protection".
What this effectively means is that up to 20,000 Tunisian immigrant landed in Lampedusa over the last months will now have a freedom-of-movement all over Europe due to the Schengen Agreement (which effectively breaks down borders within EU Countries). With this move Italy hopes that most of these immigrants would have moved out of its territory within the said period and since most of the Tunisians' target would be France due to language and cultural backgrounds (Tunisia being an ex-French colony).
This has brought strong reactions from France which is threatening closure of its Italian border and with Italian internal affairs Minister Maroni accusing France of not respecting the Schengen treatment. Maroni's French counterpart Claude Gueant stated that it is not enough to have a residency permit, but that unless such migrants have identity papers and above all the means to support themselves France would send them back to Italy.
The move has also brought negative reactions from Germany which is also a prime target for many immigrants final destination. The country is accusing Italy of going against the spirit of the Schengen agreement. Germany now intends to raise the issue at the UE ministerial meeting in Brussels Monday.
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Opposition fighters say they have pushed deeper towards the oil port of Brega taking two prisoners after a clash with soldiers near the town's university.
The eastern Libyan port has changed hands more than five times since the uprising against Gaddafi's rule began in February.
The eastern Libyan port has changed hands more than five times since the uprising against Gaddafi's rule began in February.
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Buffy327: http://www.reuters.com/article/video/idUSTRE7270JP20110408?videoId=201245272
can't watch the video, won't play on my mobile, gotta wait till I get home. From the title though I gather its about the killed rebels funerals...------ This thread is Archived ------
Following differences between Italy and France on the illegal immigrant issue, Italian interior Minister Roberto Maroni met his French counterpart Claude Gueant in Milan yesterday.
Following the meeting France agreed to assist Italy in monitoring the Tunisian coastline so as to minimise immigrant departures from the north african country.
This agreement which does not of course address the reason for these peoples attempts to abandon their homeland at great risk to their very lives, does not signify that the two countries are any nearer on immigrants crossing their borders, with this remaining clearly in dispute.
Following the meeting France agreed to assist Italy in monitoring the Tunisian coastline so as to minimise immigrant departures from the north african country.
This agreement which does not of course address the reason for these peoples attempts to abandon their homeland at great risk to their very lives, does not signify that the two countries are any nearer on immigrants crossing their borders, with this remaining clearly in dispute.
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NATO warplanes intercepted a rebel flown Mig-23 jet and forced it to land as it was violating the no-fly zone.The jet is reported to have taken off from an airfield close to Benghazi.
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In another report, AFP states that a military helicopter with a revolutionary flag painted on its side was flown at low altitude near the Ajdibiya frontline.
A Nato official reportedly stated that they are investigating this possible contravention of the no-fly zone which would be the second one today by the rebel forces.
A Nato official reportedly stated that they are investigating this possible contravention of the no-fly zone which would be the second one today by the rebel forces.
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Gaddafi made an appearance on Libyan state TV today were he was shown visiting a school in what appears to have been a confirmation that he is still around and in control.
The children appeared greeting him and were shown shouting anti-western slogans.
The children appeared greeting him and were shown shouting anti-western slogans.
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An Nato official speaking to AFP under anonymity says that Nato has destroyed 15 Gaddafi tanks in the vicinity of Misurata with another 2 near Brega over the last 48 hours.
In another statement Nato commander Charles Bouchard says that Nato has destroyed various heavy artillery around Ajdabiya and Misurata and carried out strikes against ammunition depots east of Tripoli.
In another statement Nato commander Charles Bouchard says that Nato has destroyed various heavy artillery around Ajdabiya and Misurata and carried out strikes against ammunition depots east of Tripoli.
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In a statement Libya's vice foreign minister Khaled Kaaim declared that government forces had destroyed 2 rebel-flown military helicopters near Brega.
He also criticsized Nato for allowing these helicopters to contravene the no-fly zone and of not showing impartiality in applying UN resolution 1973.
He also criticsized Nato for allowing these helicopters to contravene the no-fly zone and of not showing impartiality in applying UN resolution 1973.
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This morning Italian Home Affairs Minister Roberto Maroni stopping short of blaming the island, implied that Malta once again lacked in this case. The Italian Minister stated that in spite of the capsized vessel being in the Malta-assigned search-and-rescue zone, Malta had requested Italy to intervene as he said that Malta "did not have naval assets for a rescue".
Needless to say, Italian Media have jumped on to this accusation and Malta is being thrashed on major Italian TV talk shows and news updates as I write.
While it is true that the Lampedusa region does fall under the Malta-supervised search-and-rescue area, Malta advised the closest vessels to the scene, which in this case were Italian Coastguard and a Fishing vessel.
Yesterday’s migrants’ boat accident took place some 40 miles south west of Lampedusa, and about 100 nautical miles south of Malta. The real reason for Italy's constant jibes about Malta's rescue zone is that Italy expects Maltese authorities to intervene in the Lampedusa region so that any immigrants picked up would end up in Malta instead.
I do not wish to state who is right or wrong in this issue but I do feel it is insensitive to score political points from a human tragedy.
I'm confused, zeus. If it is so that this incident occurred in a malta search and rescue zone, I guess it becomes a mute point as to miles north/west/south or north of such incident. Why designate the zone at all, then? I do understand the logic, however. It can't be easy for Italy to take on all these illegal immigrants. As for Italian talk show television, it's what they do. You should see the circus they make of cases currently before the law, such as interviewing key witnesses on a TV variety show!! Completely crazy!!
Anyway, as you rightly said, it's not about scoring points, political ot otherwise.
Personally, a part of me wishes the allied western forces had never invaded. It all appears way too disorganised to come to any ultimate good. apart from saving truly persecuted peopleJMO
p.s. though I bet the non illegal immigrants can't believe their luck!!!!!