Libya - Latest Updates Part III (526)
There seems to be little hard news of the actual fighting within Lybia. Is there a gag on ????
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zeus911: The European Commission said it was closely following Malta’s influx of immigrants from Libya but was still not in a position to offer any concrete help, as it is still considering its options.
A spokesman for Home Affairs Commissioner Cecilia Malmstrom currently visiting refugee-laden Tunisia, speaking to the Times of Malta said that the Commission can only propose but at the end it is up to the member states to give the go-ahead.
In the meantime Italy which is bearing the brunt of such illegal immigration was rather critical of European lack of support and action in the circumstances. The Commission however responded that the majority of landings at Lampedusa were economic migrants and not refugees, thus while the Commission would assist by funds, responsibility remains with the Italian government.
A spokesman for Home Affairs Commissioner Cecilia Malmstrom currently visiting refugee-laden Tunisia, speaking to the Times of Malta said that the Commission can only propose but at the end it is up to the member states to give the go-ahead.
In the meantime Italy which is bearing the brunt of such illegal immigration was rather critical of European lack of support and action in the circumstances. The Commission however responded that the majority of landings at Lampedusa were economic migrants and not refugees, thus while the Commission would assist by funds, responsibility remains with the Italian government.
I can only assume that these 'economic migrants' are only identified as such, once they reach the shores of Lampedusa.
Which means these people are abusing the situation of the Libyan crisis, and hopping on board for the free ride, instead of the normal route of paid passage on a normal boat/plane. Apalling really!
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zeus911: A UNHCR statement adviced surrounding nations on the presence of two missing refugee boats in the central mediterranean. The boats carrying some 400 migrants left from Libya on 2 separate trips in the past days and both are now in serious risks after several days in rough seas.
The statement appeals for search and rescue teams of nearby countries including Malta to enhance their efforts in locating these immigrants hailing from Somalia, Eritrea and Ethiopia.
The statement appeals for search and rescue teams of nearby countries including Malta to enhance their efforts in locating these immigrants hailing from Somalia, Eritrea and Ethiopia.
I'm a bit confused. Immigrants? Refugees?
How is the status of all those landing in both Malta and Italy, being determined?
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venere08: I can only assume that these 'economic migrants' are only identified as such, once they reach the shores of Lampedusa.
Which means these people are abusing the situation of the Libyan crisis, and hopping on board for the free ride, instead of the normal route of paid passage on a normal boat/plane. Apalling really!
Which means these people are abusing the situation of the Libyan crisis, and hopping on board for the free ride, instead of the normal route of paid passage on a normal boat/plane. Apalling really!
I only say the above, because the authorities are obviously not treating these migrants with any sense of priority. They might have chosen to flee, but they seem not to have been regarded as in any danger. Not sure why? maybe I shouldn't comment. I'm in the dark as to any details. I will only keep making assumptions as I try to fill in the gaps in information. You can only report so much, zeus.
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In the meantime the same rough seas have hindered salvage attempts by Italian authorities to evacuate several thousands of illegal immigrants from the southern island of Lampedusa.
The migrants are slowly being transfered to various centres on mainland Italy including some emergency set-up tent villages. These 'tentopoli' and other emergency centres have caused quite a stir in the country's citizens especially in nearby areas. An incident yesterday which saw several hundreds of mainly Tunisian migrants forcing their way out of one such centre and escaping worsened the situation.
Tension is so high in the country that there was even some scuffles in the Italian parliament involving defence minister La Russa.
The migrants are slowly being transfered to various centres on mainland Italy including some emergency set-up tent villages. These 'tentopoli' and other emergency centres have caused quite a stir in the country's citizens especially in nearby areas. An incident yesterday which saw several hundreds of mainly Tunisian migrants forcing their way out of one such centre and escaping worsened the situation.
Tension is so high in the country that there was even some scuffles in the Italian parliament involving defence minister La Russa.
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venere08: I'm a bit confused. Immigrants? Refugees?
How is the status of all those landing in both Malta and Italy, being determined?
As I explained in some other post, the process is a difficult one to process each such person and determine their status. Initially any arriving or salvaged group is considered as illegal immigrants but if any of them apply for political asylum or it is proven that they originate from a country in a state of war or civil war then they would ve considered as refugees.How is the status of all those landing in both Malta and Italy, being determined?
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zeus911: In the meantime the same rough seas have hindered salvage attempts by Italian authorities to evacuate several thousands of illegal immigrants from the southern island of Lampedusa.
The migrants are slowly being transfered to various centres on mainland Italy including some emergency set-up tent villages. These 'tentopoli' and other emergency centres have caused quite a stir in the country's citizens especially in nearby areas. An incident yesterday which saw several hundreds of mainly Tunisian migrants forcing their way out of one such centre and escaping worsened the situation.
Tension is so high in the country that there was even some scuffles in the Italian parliament involving defence minister La Russa.
The migrants are slowly being transfered to various centres on mainland Italy including some emergency set-up tent villages. These 'tentopoli' and other emergency centres have caused quite a stir in the country's citizens especially in nearby areas. An incident yesterday which saw several hundreds of mainly Tunisian migrants forcing their way out of one such centre and escaping worsened the situation.
Tension is so high in the country that there was even some scuffles in the Italian parliament involving defence minister La Russa.
Knowing what the general Italian sentiment is towards any further influx of refugees/immigrants of any description, I can foresee potential revolt on the streets, not just in parliament.
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zeus911: As I explained in some other post, the process is a difficult one to process each such person and determine their status. Initially any arriving or salvaged group is considered as illegal immigrants but if any of them apply for political asylum or it is proven that they originate from a country in a state of war or civil war then they would ve considered as refugees.
Sure, thanks. I was confused as to that particular post.
I know that process well, as many years ago, I did some short term work in a detention centre here in the desert in South Australia, where thousands of illegal immigrants were housed. it is a hugely difficult process for the authorities to determine the authenticity of documents, some without adequate documents. It is also a lengthy process. Certainly not one that takes only days, or sometimes even months. Which begs the question as to how these illegals in Malta and Italy can possibly have their status determined so quickly.
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venere08: Sure, thanks. I was confused as to that particular post.
I know that process well, as many years ago, I did some short term work in a detention centre here in the desert in South Australia, where thousands of illegal immigrants were housed. it is a hugely difficult process for the authorities to determine the authenticity of documents, some without adequate documents. It is also a lengthy process. Certainly not one that takes only days, or sometimes even months. Which begs the question as to how these illegals in Malta and Italy can possibly have their status determined so quickly.
I know that process well, as many years ago, I did some short term work in a detention centre here in the desert in South Australia, where thousands of illegal immigrants were housed. it is a hugely difficult process for the authorities to determine the authenticity of documents, some without adequate documents. It is also a lengthy process. Certainly not one that takes only days, or sometimes even months. Which begs the question as to how these illegals in Malta and Italy can possibly have their status determined so quickly.
p.s. some would say they were from Afghanistan(that will get you a protection visa)but were found to be from Pakistan(no chance of visa), others would say they were from Iraq but were from Iran(not deemed to be dangerous, hence no visa), and so it went on. Many were even schooled in Indonesia before they embarked for our shores, as to descriptions of certain towns, so that when the authorities questioned them, they would be able to bluff their way through. So it took authorities ages to try and verify.
So I guess the Italian parliament as well as its people, are aware of the reality of time and resource commitment that is being thrust upon them. I'd say also with Malta.
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venere08: Knowing what the general Italian sentiment is towards any further influx of refugees/immigrants of any description, I can foresee potential revolt on the streets, not just in parliament.
yes you're rightand the citizens of Lampedusa itself have already done that even tried to blockade their harbour but its a losing battle as thousands keep coming in.Ironically most of the ones arriving on Italy being Tunisian are rely aiming to reach France since Tunisia was an ex-French colony but the latter country is not very welcoming to any immigrants and is especially vigilant on guarding its Italian borders.
And even more ironical is the fact that since Tunisia is not at war then all of them are considered as economical illegal immigrants while their own mother country is receiving tens of thousands of refugees escaping across the Libyan border, which is worsening the situation there and causing Tunisians to abandon their country.
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zeus911: yes you're rightand the citizens of Lampedusa itself have already done that even tried to blockade their harbour but its a losing battle as thousands keep coming in.
Ironically most of the ones arriving on Italy being Tunisian are rely aiming to reach France since Tunisia was an ex-French colony but the latter country is not very welcoming to any immigrants and is especially vigilant on guarding its Italian borders.
And even more ironical is the fact that since Tunisia is not at war then all of them are considered as economical illegal immigrants while their own mother country is receiving tens of thousands of refugees escaping across the Libyan border, which is worsening the situation there and causing Tunisians to abandon their country.
Ironically most of the ones arriving on Italy being Tunisian are rely aiming to reach France since Tunisia was an ex-French colony but the latter country is not very welcoming to any immigrants and is especially vigilant on guarding its Italian borders.
And even more ironical is the fact that since Tunisia is not at war then all of them are considered as economical illegal immigrants while their own mother country is receiving tens of thousands of refugees escaping across the Libyan border, which is worsening the situation there and causing Tunisians to abandon their country.
Tunisians have historically flooded into Italy. As well as from Morocco. One of my cousins had a Moroccan husband. Gorgeous looking man, too.
Short of installing barbed wire or electric fences (I say that to merely point out the only thing that would physically stop anyone leaving Libya, not to advocate these measures!!!), and no longer provide ferries and so on, the situation will continue as it is.
Once started at all, this kind of thing takes on a life of its own. There was of-course, no plan in place to address all that is now happening. Not sure why the surprise really. What on earth did France, England and the U.S. expect??? Malta and Italy have had little choice. A hypothetical: What if neither in reality, wanted to participate? That was never an option. France has the luxury of refusing? Why??? ....Just saying.
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venere08: Tunisians have historically flooded into Italy. As well as from Morocco. One of my cousins had a Moroccan husband. Gorgeous looking man, too.
Short of installing barbed wire or electric fences (I say that to merely point out the only thing that would physically stop anyone leaving Libya, not to advocate these measures!!!), and no longer provide ferries and so on, the situation will continue as it is.
Once started at all, this kind of thing takes on a life of its own. There was of-course, no plan in place to address all that is now happening. Not sure why the surprise really. What on earth did France, England and the U.S. expect??? Malta and Italy have had little choice. A hypothetical: What if neither in reality, wanted to participate? That was never an option. France has the luxury of refusing? Why??? ....Just saying.
You're absolutely right, both Malta and Italy realy felt the need to do something for our Libyan neighbors but the truth of it is as you say, we never had a choice and we're getting the impact of decisions by other nations who now turn their backs on us when we're in need.Short of installing barbed wire or electric fences (I say that to merely point out the only thing that would physically stop anyone leaving Libya, not to advocate these measures!!!), and no longer provide ferries and so on, the situation will continue as it is.
Once started at all, this kind of thing takes on a life of its own. There was of-course, no plan in place to address all that is now happening. Not sure why the surprise really. What on earth did France, England and the U.S. expect??? Malta and Italy have had little choice. A hypothetical: What if neither in reality, wanted to participate? That was never an option. France has the luxury of refusing? Why??? ....Just saying.
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tomcatwarne: There seems to be little hard news of the actual fighting within Lybia. Is there a gag on ????
You're right Tom, news has been a bit hard to come by these last days. The truth of the matter is that things are pretty much at a stalemate and very little progress has been made by either side.------ This thread is Archived ------
Al Jazeera's reports that 13 Libyan rebels were killed and seven others were injured when NATO aircraft bombed four of their vehicles west of the city of Ajdabiya. The Libyan government says the air strikes killed six people and wounded 12 others.
Their correspondent Laurence Lee, reporting from Benghazi, says his team was told that Gaddafi's forces have stopped using tanks, because they can be easily spotted by NATO warplanes. Instead they are using pick-up trucks with mortars on the back which makes them identical to the rebel forces and hence both more difficult to spot and easier for an incident as this to happen.
Their correspondent Laurence Lee, reporting from Benghazi, says his team was told that Gaddafi's forces have stopped using tanks, because they can be easily spotted by NATO warplanes. Instead they are using pick-up trucks with mortars on the back which makes them identical to the rebel forces and hence both more difficult to spot and easier for an incident as this to happen.
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An earlier report on Misurata from Reuters speaks of heavy bombardment. They say that Gaddafi loyalists have attacked shops and homes in the city centre, as the rebels' hold on the city begins to weaken. Sami, a rebel spokesman, told the news agency:
"They used tanks, rocket-propelled grenades, mortar rounds and other projectiles to hit the city today. It was a random and very intense bombardment. We no longer recognise the place. The destruction cannot be described.
The pro-Gaddafi soldiers who made it inside the city through Tripoli Street are pillaging the place, the shops, even homes, and destroying everything in the process. They are targeting everyone, including civilians' homes. I don't know what to say, may Allah help us."
"They used tanks, rocket-propelled grenades, mortar rounds and other projectiles to hit the city today. It was a random and very intense bombardment. We no longer recognise the place. The destruction cannot be described.
The pro-Gaddafi soldiers who made it inside the city through Tripoli Street are pillaging the place, the shops, even homes, and destroying everything in the process. They are targeting everyone, including civilians' homes. I don't know what to say, may Allah help us."
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Yesterday Libyan government officials in Tripoli swiftly rejected an offer of a ceasefire from the Benghazi-based National Council.
The offer by the National Council was a result of discussions with UN envoy Abdelilah al-Katib who visited both Gaddafi loyalists in Tripoli and opposition officials in Benghazi to try to offer a diplomatic solution to the crisis.
The Benghazi offer was described as 'lies' by Tripoli who said that they had already offered a ceasefire twice to the rebels. Such ceasefires were in effect offered by the Libyan regime however unrestrained attacks on rebel-held cities still resumed and later officially negated.
The offer by the National Council was a result of discussions with UN envoy Abdelilah al-Katib who visited both Gaddafi loyalists in Tripoli and opposition officials in Benghazi to try to offer a diplomatic solution to the crisis.
The Benghazi offer was described as 'lies' by Tripoli who said that they had already offered a ceasefire twice to the rebels. Such ceasefires were in effect offered by the Libyan regime however unrestrained attacks on rebel-held cities still resumed and later officially negated.
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zeus911: In the meantime the same rough seas have hindered salvage attempts by Italian authorities to evacuate several thousands of illegal immigrants from the southern island of Lampedusa.
The migrants are slowly being transfered to various centres on mainland Italy including some emergency set-up tent villages. These 'tentopoli' and other emergency centres have caused quite a stir in the country's citizens especially in nearby areas. An incident yesterday which saw several hundreds of mainly Tunisian migrants forcing their way out of one such centre and escaping worsened the situation.
Tension is so high in the country that there was even some scuffles in the Italian parliament involving defence minister La Russa.
The migrants are slowly being transfered to various centres on mainland Italy including some emergency set-up tent villages. These 'tentopoli' and other emergency centres have caused quite a stir in the country's citizens especially in nearby areas. An incident yesterday which saw several hundreds of mainly Tunisian migrants forcing their way out of one such centre and escaping worsened the situation.
Tension is so high in the country that there was even some scuffles in the Italian parliament involving defence minister La Russa.
The humanitarian effort to rescue Libyans escaping from political persecution/physical harm does not include giving free passage to Tunisians or any other opportunists who can't be bothered going through the normal migration channels. So what if they don't like the fact that 1000's of Libyan refugees are hitting their country? Diddums! They should be sent back to Tunisia....As the Australian government does with illegal immigrants deemed not to be of refugee status. They are sent back to their country of origin(except for a few stray known terrorists who cannot find a country that will have them!!!
)And as for those Tunisian migrants who broke free and escaped - they obviously have a preference for the French Riviera, not the Italian!
...It makes a mockery of the original intent and sentiment. As for the other nations turning their backs, shame on them!!! And what is the UN doing about it??!!------ This thread is Archived ------
zeus911: Associated Press reported that a US military plane crashed and its pilot injured. At this point I have no further details about this report or its veracity.
Did U ever hear anymore about this?
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Buffy327: Did U ever hear anymore about this?
yes I did but the crash wasn't related to the conflict. It was a US airforce A-10c Thunderbolt craft which crashed near Laufeld in Germany while it was on a routine training flight.------ This thread is Archived ------
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The statement appeals for search and rescue teams of nearby countries including Malta to enhance their efforts in locating these immigrants hailing from Somalia, Eritrea and Ethiopia.