Libya - Latest Updates Part III ( Archived) (526)

Mar 30, 2011 1:22 AM CST Libya - Latest Updates Part III
Albertaghost
AlbertaghostAlbertaghostCultural Wasteland, Alberta Canada76 Threads 5 Polls 5,914 Posts
zeus911: Bangladeshis


Hey, that's where our newest member is from. monirul_hasan67. You don't suppose that he's a Gaddafi supporter who somehow managed to escape and get internet service do you?confused
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Mar 30, 2011 1:37 AM CST Libya - Latest Updates Part III
zeus911
zeus911zeus911Malta, Xlokk Malta8 Threads 2 Polls 1,000 Posts
Buffy327: I was speaking about the money and supplies (food and medical supplies) helping with re-location and accommodations. They have been collecting millions around the world for these people. Red Cross specifically. (I know I got my call for help) No one country can take this responsibility on and still I am not hearing of anyone getting anything.
I know the country got some EU funds to help out but I haven't heard anything about international voluntary organisations or Red Cross.

The thing is this is not just a financial problem. Malta is a small island with one of the highest population densities in the world and once these people come here we're basically stuck with them. Few or no countries offer to re-home any and if so they just take a handful while immigrants arrive in boatloads. If we send them back to their homeland the international community is quick to accuse us of breaking human rights and immigrant asylum norms but when it comes to shoulder the burden...

The finincial cost is a burden but the real problem is to give these persons a new life not to dump them in a refugee camp and feed them.
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Mar 30, 2011 3:17 AM CST Libya - Latest Updates Part III
zeus911
zeus911zeus911Malta, Xlokk Malta8 Threads 2 Polls 1,000 Posts
The city of Tripoli is really feeling the pinch of this crisis. Al Jazeera's Anita McNaught says major services which mainly depended on foreign workers are now largely at a standstill as the latter abandoned the country. Bread and basic necessities are hard to come by, fish is inexistent as the fishermen are blocked in their harbours, fuel has become a scarce commodity. No one's starving she says, but life hasn't been 'normal' for more than a month in the city.

Add the nightly raids to that report as coalition jets fly overhead and missiles explode in hopefully distant neighborhoods, a state TV which tells you civilians are being killed, armed militia roaming the streets, and government spies amongst your neighbors watching your every step. Picture a family with kids living in fear and not knowing if there will be a tomorrow.

Situation in Misurata and other rebel-controlled cities and areas is worse. They have the same shortages as in the government-controlled capital and on top of that electricity and water have been cut for days. Maybe no spies around but they do not need the state TV to show them dead and wounded... If you were there, you would only need to take a peek out of covered windows to see them, and God-forbid that you or one of your family needs any medical attention as a visit to a local hospital could only worsen your nightmare.

Here missiles aren't controlled by hopefully correctly set GPS coodinates but indiscriminatory shelling by powerful artillery pound your neighborhood. The local bus stopped passing by your home as a massive tank blocks the end of the road and the life of you and your family are at the mercy of a nervous soldier that sits inside.

This is the unfortunate reality of a country split over a dictator hanging on to power and where an international coalition struggles to take the right steps.
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Mar 30, 2011 3:33 AM CST Libya - Latest Updates Part III
venere08
venere08venere08Puglia and Autumn, South Australia Australia121 Threads 2 Polls 9,996 Posts
zeus911: More illegal immigrants continue to arrive in Malta today as two more trips brought around another 300 persons to the island. This brings the total to over 800 immigrants since just yesterday.

Maltese Foreign Minister Tonio Borg made an appeal today in the London Libya-conference to the international community in general and to the European Union in particular about the illegal migration problem caused by the conflict. Needless to say there weren't too many countries volunteering to help out.

Obviously the Italian island of Lampedusa is in a much more serious crisis but since Italy has chosen to criticize Malta in regard to illegal immigrants I shall be selfish about this and only give details about what's happening here.


Hello zeus,
I've been following your posts on and off, and I thank you for your coverage. I recently spent some time in the Puglia region of Italy, where I spoke to various neighbours and friends about the Libyan crisis. They fully understand the need for humanitarian assistance, yet the general feel is that Italy is unable to sustain such huge numbers of refugees in the long term. As it is, the nation does not provide its own unemployed with any financial assistance, which places a huge burden on parents as they support their adult children until they find work.

I just did a quick google search of 'Libyan refugees in Lampedusa', and found an article with footage, dated 30th March, from none other than China Central Television(but of-course!!)
A quote:

With another boat carrying people fleeing North Africa to Lampedusa on Monday evening, refugees on this tiny tourist and fishing Italian island now total 5,534, outnumbering the local population of 5,400.



Note that Italian and Malta Red Cross work side by side. There is a big job to be done and they are doing it as well as they can. I believe that financial assistance needs to be forthcoming from other countries to assist both Malta and Italy as they go about providing shelter and safe refuge to thousands of dispossessed. Otherwise it cannot be sustained. Certainly the big question now is, where to from here?

wine
p.s. An aside...About 20 years ago, Gaddafi released missiles directed at Lampedusa. Fortunately they exploded in the ocean and never made it to their intended destination. The Italian government chose to ignore this obvious act of aggression.
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Mar 30, 2011 5:17 AM CST Libya - Latest Updates Part III
zeus911
zeus911zeus911Malta, Xlokk Malta8 Threads 2 Polls 1,000 Posts
venere08: Hello zeus,
I've been following your posts on and off, and I thank you for your coverage. I recently spent some time in the Puglia region of Italy, where I spoke to various neighbours and friends about the Libyan crisis. They fully understand the need for humanitarian assistance, yet the general feel is that Italy is unable to sustain such huge numbers of refugees in the long term. As it is, the nation does not provide its own unemployed with any financial assistance, which places a huge burden on parents as they support their adult children until they find work.

I just did a quick google search of 'Libyan refugees in Lampedusa', and found an article with footage, dated 30th March, from none other than China Central Television(but of-course!!)
A quote:

With another boat carrying people fleeing North Africa to Lampedusa on Monday evening, refugees on this tiny tourist and fishing Italian island now total 5,534, outnumbering the local population of 5,400.



Note that Italian and Malta Red Cross work side by side. There is a big job to be done and they are doing it as well as they can. I believe that financial assistance needs to be forthcoming from other countries to assist both Malta and Italy as they go about providing shelter and safe refuge to thousands of dispossessed. Otherwise it cannot be sustained. Certainly the big question now is, where to from here?


p.s. An aside...About 20 years ago, Gaddafi released missiles directed at Lampedusa. Fortunately they exploded in the ocean and never made it to their intended destination. The Italian government chose to ignore this obvious act of aggression.
Yes Venere, you're right both about the numbers and about the situation in Italy. Actually its a bit more in Lampedusa right now as there's over 6000 refugees there. In fact Prime Minister Berlusconi is visiting the tiny island today to 'address' the crisis.

But at least Lampedusa has some hope of transferring these immigrants to mainland Italy. In Malta we have no such luxury - those who come here, we're quite simply stuck with. People from the outside view Malta and Italy are just 2 countries affected by this and people like Giletti start to compare numbers and think we're getting off lightly. Thing is one has to keep in mind that Malta has a population of approx 400,000 to Italy's 59 million and a land mass of only 122 square miles (about twice the size of Washington, D.C.) as compared to Italy's 116,343 square miles (slightly larger than the state of Arizona). That makes Malta less than 1% of Italy's population and an even lessor percentage in land mass so the impact of every immigrant arriving here is felt 100 times more than our neighbour.

The irony of the matter is as some of the immigrants themselves state, they leave their countries for a better life and more freedom in Europe and often find themselves in guarded immigrant centres living in worse conditions than they left back home. These people never planned to live in Malta or in Lampedusa, they want to head to mainland Europe but beaurocracy and selfish countries close their doors and let us deal with it.

The real solution here is not just to care and feed these immigrants but to improve conditions in their countries that they would no longer more need to escape their homeland.
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Mar 30, 2011 5:42 AM CST Libya - Latest Updates Part III
venere08
venere08venere08Puglia and Autumn, South Australia Australia121 Threads 2 Polls 9,996 Posts
zeus911: Yes Venere, you're right both about the numbers and about the situation in Italy. Actually its a bit more in Lampedusa right now as there's over 6000 refugees there. In fact Prime Minister Berlusconi is visiting the tiny island today to 'address' the crisis.

But at least Lampedusa has some hope of transferring these immigrants to mainland Italy. In Malta we have no such luxury - those who come here, we're quite simply stuck with. People from the outside view Malta and Italy are just 2 countries affected by this and people like Giletti start to compare numbers and think we're getting off lightly. Thing is one has to keep in mind that Malta has a population of approx 400,000 to Italy's 59 million and a land mass of only 122 square miles (about twice the size of Washington, D.C.) as compared to Italy's 116,343 square miles (slightly larger than the state of Arizona). That makes Malta less than 1% of Italy's population and an even lessor percentage in land mass so the impact of every immigrant arriving here is felt 100 times more than our neighbour.

The irony of the matter is as some of the immigrants themselves state, they leave their countries for a better life and more freedom in Europe and often find themselves in guarded immigrant centres living in worse conditions than they left back home. These people never planned to live in Malta or in Lampedusa, they want to head to mainland Europe but beaurocracy and selfish countries close their doors and let us deal with it.

The real solution here is not just to care and feed these immigrants but to improve conditions in their countries that they would no longer more need to escape their homeland.


I agree completely with your last statement. Ideally, once Libya stabilises, these refugees would want to return. Surely that would be their aim? Or do they regard this as an opportunity to leave their homeland? I hope not. Interesting how the other nations, quick to invade Libya, or abstain from voting/involvement, behave with such complacency. About Italy having such a 'luxury' as to transfer the 1000's to the mainland, the population doesn't see it in that light. As the above article stated, Mr Berlusconi does not see that as a viable option. It is sad that Malta and italy are left alone to deal with this.
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Mar 30, 2011 5:48 AM CST Libya - Latest Updates Part III
Lillym
LillymLillymSliema, Majjistral Malta33 Threads 3,391 Posts
zeus911: Yes Venere, you're right both about the numbers and about the situation in Italy. Actually its a bit more in Lampedusa right now as there's over 6000 refugees there. In fact Prime Minister Berlusconi is visiting the tiny island today to 'address' the crisis.

But at least Lampedusa has some hope of transferring these immigrants to mainland Italy. In Malta we have no such luxury - those who come here, we're quite simply stuck with. People from the outside view Malta and Italy are just 2 countries affected by this and people like Giletti start to compare numbers and think we're getting off lightly. Thing is one has to keep in mind that Malta has a population of approx 400,000 to Italy's 59 million and a land mass of only 122 square miles (about twice the size of Washington, D.C.) as compared to Italy's 116,343 square miles (slightly larger than the state of Arizona). That makes Malta less than 1% of Italy's population and an even lessor percentage in land mass so the impact of every immigrant arriving here is felt 100 times more than our neighbour.

The irony of the matter is as some of the immigrants themselves state, they leave their countries for a better life and more freedom in Europe and often find themselves in guarded immigrant centres living in worse conditions than they left back home. These people never planned to live in Malta or in Lampedusa, they want to head to mainland Europe but beaurocracy and selfish countries close their doors and let us deal with it.

The real solution here is not just to care and feed these immigrants but to improve conditions in their countries that they would no longer more need to escape their homeland.


Well said...and totally agree with you, the solution is to improve conditions in their own countries. thumbs up
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Mar 30, 2011 6:05 AM CST Libya - Latest Updates Part III
Buffy327
Buffy327Buffy327Somewhere, Georgia USA5 Threads 1,527 Posts
zeus911: I know the country got some EU funds to help out but I haven't heard anything about international voluntary organisations or Red Cross.

The thing is this is not just a financial problem. Malta is a small island with one of the highest population densities in the world and once these people come here we're basically stuck with them. Few or no countries offer to re-home any and if so they just take a handful while immigrants arrive in boatloads. If we send them back to their homeland the international community is quick to accuse us of breaking human rights and immigrant asylum norms but when it comes to shoulder the burden...

The finincial cost is a burden but the real problem is to give these persons a new life not to dump them in a refugee camp and feed them.


Which is exactly what Red Cross should be doing...Taking the burden and spreading it around. Start preparing them for long term life until which time they can return to their country. No one country can provide long term care/responsibility nor should they. confused dunno Boggles the mind sometimes.
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Mar 30, 2011 6:56 AM CST Libya - Latest Updates Part III
zeus911
zeus911zeus911Malta, Xlokk Malta8 Threads 2 Polls 1,000 Posts
Buffy327: Which is exactly what Red Cross should be doing...Taking the burden and spreading it around. Start preparing them for long term life until which time they can return to their country. No one country can provide long term care/responsibility nor should they. Boggles the mind sometimes.
Well as anything else in this world, money comes before human lives! doh
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Mar 30, 2011 8:01 AM CST Libya - Latest Updates Part III
zeus911
zeus911zeus911Malta, Xlokk Malta8 Threads 2 Polls 1,000 Posts
Outgunned and retreating Libyan opposition fighters called on coalition forces to launch fresh air strikes against Muammar Gaddafi's loyalists after fleeing the key oil town of Ras Lanuf under heavy fire this morning.

AFP quotes rebel fighter Yunes Abdelghaim saying, "We want two things: that the planes drop bombs on Gaddafi's tanks and heavy artillery; and that they give us weapons so we can fight". The 27-year-old was holding a Russian AK-47 assault rifle and French flag.

"Where is Sarkozy?" others exclaimed as coalition warplanes seem to have withdrawn for the past 2 days. The rebel fighters associate this with the London conference on the Libyan crisis. Coalition sources however quote a desert sandstorm yesterday as the main reason.

"We are facing a big problem. We are pulling back," said one fighter, Salama Dadida, "Gaddafi's troops are firing rockets and tank shells."
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Mar 30, 2011 8:09 AM CST Libya - Latest Updates Part III
Buffy327
Buffy327Buffy327Somewhere, Georgia USA5 Threads 1,527 Posts
sigh sad flower So very sad and today USA turns it back over to the UN. dunno
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Mar 30, 2011 12:31 PM CST Libya - Latest Updates Part III
zeus911
zeus911zeus911Malta, Xlokk Malta8 Threads 2 Polls 1,000 Posts
The first coalition airstrike in two days hit targets near the city of Ajdabiya.

AFP reports huge plumes of smoke rising towards the sky while jubilant rebels celebrated.
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Mar 30, 2011 12:34 PM CST Libya - Latest Updates Part III
Buffy327
Buffy327Buffy327Somewhere, Georgia USA5 Threads 1,527 Posts
zeus911: The first coalition airstrike in two days hit targets near the city of Ajdabiya.

AFP reports huge plumes of smoke rising towards the sky while jubilant rebels celebrated.
thumbs up thumbs up
Good News for sure
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Mar 30, 2011 5:06 PM CST Libya - Latest Updates Part III
Buffy327
Buffy327Buffy327Somewhere, Georgia USA5 Threads 1,527 Posts


Reuters breaking news.....USA is directly helping Rebels on the ground....TANKS, Training, Arms, and UN is not going to be happy....OH well, when did America ever make anyone happy?
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Mar 30, 2011 6:08 PM CST Libya - Latest Updates Part III
Buffy327
Buffy327Buffy327Somewhere, Georgia USA5 Threads 1,527 Posts
Mar 30, 2011 6:30 PM CST Libya - Latest Updates Part III
Colleene1024
Colleene1024Colleene1024West Warwick, Rhode Island USA10 Threads 1,225 Posts
Buffy327: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/30/us-libya-usa-order-idUSTRE72T6H220110330

Reuters breaking news.....USA is directly helping Rebels on the ground....TANKS, Training, Arms, and UN is not going to be happy....OH well, when did America ever make anyone happy?


I knew this was going to happen. It was only a matter of time! It really ticks me off! very mad He cares more about other countries then he does for the US! Yanno the US debt almost quadrupled since Oboma took office? professor
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Mar 30, 2011 9:37 PM CST Libya - Latest Updates Part III
Buffy327
Buffy327Buffy327Somewhere, Georgia USA5 Threads 1,527 Posts


Libyan's Foreign Minister defects
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Mar 30, 2011 9:50 PM CST Libya - Latest Updates Part III
jvaski
jvaskijvaskiunknown, California USA115 Threads 11 Polls 9,576 Posts
Buffy327: So very sad and today USA turns it back over to the UN.


Worry not .....we'll have plenty of troops on the ground soon.....roll eyes
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Mar 30, 2011 11:34 PM CST Libya - Latest Updates Part III
solitare
solitaresolitareBariloche, Rio Negro Argentina40 Threads 4,041 Posts
A newspaper headline from the time of Saddam Hussein read
"IRAQUI HEAD SEEKS ARMS"...
Now that the so called provisional leader of the Libyan 'rebels' has asked the US for weapons, a soon to be newspaper headline will surely read "LIBYAN HEAD SEEKS ARMS"...rolling on the floor laughing
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Mar 30, 2011 11:45 PM CST Libya - Latest Updates Part III
mnowsa
mnowsamnowsaRajshahi, Rajshahi Division Bangladesh145 Threads 3 Polls 7,536 Posts
solitare: A newspaper headline from the time of Saddam Hussein read
"IRAQUI HEAD SEEKS ARMS"...
Now that the so called provisional leader of the Libyan 'rebels' has asked the US for weapons, a soon to be newspaper headline will surely read "LIBYAN HEAD SEEKS ARMS"...


....and soon Mr. Obama will give his speech saying that american will soon be able to creat a lot of job as the arms industry will get more orders to build more and more weaponsprofessor rolling on the floor laughing
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