Republicans kill prison officer .. (201)
Do you reckon Brendan Hughes was paranoid or was he being set up SF because they wanted to take a different direction??
I watched Brits: The Secret war and Brits: Shoot to Kill...well worth a watch too
there's a third one i'll be watching later
I watched Brits: The Secret war and Brits: Shoot to Kill...well worth a watch too
there's a third one i'll be watching later
snowlynx: Can't agree with you on your last point. You should call them that if that is what they are, it helps to define the problem. So if the next time they try murdering someone and the SAS springs a surprise on them like Gibralter, or better still a Loughall, then people won't be fooled by their 'poor me, I'm a victim of state violence' routine.
As for David Black, you come very close to saying he was a legitimate target because he was in the Orange Order, you certainly think it was alright to kill him because he was a prison officer.....well, people will make their own minds up about that!
As for David Black, you come very close to saying he was a legitimate target because he was in the Orange Order, you certainly think it was alright to kill him because he was a prison officer.....well, people will make their own minds up about that!
I'll clear you last point up first. PFR (phyisical force republicans) believe he was a legit target. They've already said that. I've already put up an article from last yrs Belfast Telegraph explaining that.
Lets take a closer look at two of the examples that you mentioned Loughall and Gibraltar on both occassions the security forces knew in advance what was going to happen, when it was going to happen and who was involved. Why didn't they (security forces) simply arrest them before hand for example and charge them with membership of the PIRA? Could it be they (seurity forces) didn't want an agent exposed???????
As for Gibraltar..no one was armed (the ASU unit)..And eye witness accounts have said that all three put their hands up in surrender but the SAS still shot them.
(for whatever reason...the video wont post..Copy and paste it into your browser. It's the Death on the Rock Documentary)
Here's something else Snowy...What happened after events on Gibraltar? What happened in Belfast?
Why did Thames TV lose thier license shortly after the showed the Doumentary?
Snowy for someone (namely yourself) who wants the world and myself to believe you have studied or followed events in the o6c..Most if not all your posts are naive.
Why did Thames TV lose thier license shortly after the showed the Doumentary?
Snowy for someone (namely yourself) who wants the world and myself to believe you have studied or followed events in the o6c..Most if not all your posts are naive.
Loughall..........
There is no evidence at all that any measures were taken to arrest the IRA men prior to or during the course of the attack. There is also no evidence to suggest that arrest procedures were even discussed at the briefing the SAS and RUC had on the 7th May. The IRA men had clearly been under surveillance for at least the day of the 8th May. The owner of the van did not report it hijacked until 6.50pm that evening. Yet a number of soldiers have stated in their depositions that they were informed by radio of the van its make, colour and registration number as early as a few hours before the attack.
Why weren't they arrested before?
There is no evidence at all that any measures were taken to arrest the IRA men prior to or during the course of the attack. There is also no evidence to suggest that arrest procedures were even discussed at the briefing the SAS and RUC had on the 7th May. The IRA men had clearly been under surveillance for at least the day of the 8th May. The owner of the van did not report it hijacked until 6.50pm that evening. Yet a number of soldiers have stated in their depositions that they were informed by radio of the van its make, colour and registration number as early as a few hours before the attack.
Why weren't they arrested before?
mcattack: Do you reckon Brendan Hughes was paranoid or was he being set up SF because they wanted to take a different direction??
I think paranoid is the wrong word. Although at the time of his release he couldn't prove it. He knew that the PRM (Provisional Republican Movement) was infiltrated from top to bottom especially in Belfast. And you are smack on MC, he knew SF wanted to go a different direction. Before he died he was a regular critic of SF in an online magazine called the Blanket. You can read what he thought here..
:81/
mcattack: I watched Brits: The Secret war and Brits: Shoot to Kill...well worth a watch too there's a third one i'll be watching later
Good place to start mc.
Snowy I waiting for Johnny to post his views here. He's a protestant from Belfast and I've asked him for his views on his thread...
I hope he does post his opinions. I for one would be very interested in hearing them.
I hope he does post his opinions. I for one would be very interested in hearing them.
Snowy I waiting for Johnny to post his views here. He's a protestant from Belfast and I've asked him for his views on his thread...
I hope he does post his opinions. I for one would be very interested in hearing them.
I hope he does post his opinions. I for one would be very interested in hearing them.
whitepaws: So you admit ...
"there are an element who call themselves republicans involved in human trafficking"
..... and i will keep the diesel laundering, the cigarette smuggling , the alcohol smuggling and the drugs included SINCE these illegal acts that fund your beliefs cause losses to the financial sector of the IRISH economy and the more important Loss of life to the IRISH people
And then you say its sad ....What a Two faced reply that deserves a
"there are an element who call themselves republicans involved in human trafficking"
..... and i will keep the diesel laundering, the cigarette smuggling , the alcohol smuggling and the drugs included SINCE these illegal acts that fund your beliefs cause losses to the financial sector of the IRISH economy and the more important Loss of life to the IRISH people
And then you say its sad ....What a Two faced reply that deserves a
Would you like me to repeat it again. Read what I said. There is an element WHO CALL THEMSELVES REPUBLICANS...Do you understand that?
What part of that can't you understand? My beliefs are based on personal experience, what I have read and listening to other peoples experiences.
If you really want to talk about the Irish economy, criminals and money laundering. May I suggest you take a close look at the goings on within Leinster House and the Banks...Or Companies and inviduals who avoid paying tax that directly cost the Irish public billions every year.
Once again in case you missed it..YES THERE IS A CRIMINAL ELEMENT WITHIN IRISH REPUBLICANISM INVOLVED IN HUMAN TRAFFICKING....You understand the words 'criminal element'..?
Does that make them Irish republicans NO. Don't even try to equate the two.
If people really want to know whats going on in Roe House and why David Black was killed...Have a look at this.
Joanne Starrs claimed tensions are running high in Maghaberry.
"When I spoke to him on Thursday, Tony told me the prison staff are punching them and spitting on their food in front of them before they eat it.
"He said the tension is terrible in the prison at the moment."
Ms Starrs said the tensions came to a head as her brother was preparing to go to court for a remand hearing.
"On the way out to the van to go to the court hearing he asked for his papers and was told he wasn't getting them.
"Tony said he was entitled to them and asked the prison officer to go and ask the governor for them.
When he came back, he said the governor told him he wasn't getting them and a member of the prison staff bounced Tony's head off the side of the van.
"Then he put his hand on the back of his head and pushed it down on a bar.
"The riot squad came out and kicked Tony in the face and stood on his hand.
"He didn't get any treatment until Thursday night when it was confirmed that his wrist was broken and he also has injuries to his thumb and back.
Ms Starrs also claimed that while he was being beaten he was called a criminal by prison officers, and an official complaint has to made to prison authorities
.......
Same report can be found here..
or here
....
Maybe if the NIO and senior prison staff stopped beating prisoners and introduced as agreed last year the BOSS chair (similiar to airport scanners). David Black would still be alive and Tony wouldn't have a broken wrist. Thats only one example. Maghaberry Prison is a tinder box waiting to explode on to the streets. I'm not trying to sensationalise it. I don't think people actually understand how serious the situtation is. I know most of you don't care.
Joanne Starrs claimed tensions are running high in Maghaberry.
"When I spoke to him on Thursday, Tony told me the prison staff are punching them and spitting on their food in front of them before they eat it.
"He said the tension is terrible in the prison at the moment."
Ms Starrs said the tensions came to a head as her brother was preparing to go to court for a remand hearing.
"On the way out to the van to go to the court hearing he asked for his papers and was told he wasn't getting them.
"Tony said he was entitled to them and asked the prison officer to go and ask the governor for them.
When he came back, he said the governor told him he wasn't getting them and a member of the prison staff bounced Tony's head off the side of the van.
"Then he put his hand on the back of his head and pushed it down on a bar.
"The riot squad came out and kicked Tony in the face and stood on his hand.
"He didn't get any treatment until Thursday night when it was confirmed that his wrist was broken and he also has injuries to his thumb and back.
Ms Starrs also claimed that while he was being beaten he was called a criminal by prison officers, and an official complaint has to made to prison authorities
.......
Same report can be found here..
or here
....
Maybe if the NIO and senior prison staff stopped beating prisoners and introduced as agreed last year the BOSS chair (similiar to airport scanners). David Black would still be alive and Tony wouldn't have a broken wrist. Thats only one example. Maghaberry Prison is a tinder box waiting to explode on to the streets. I'm not trying to sensationalise it. I don't think people actually understand how serious the situtation is. I know most of you don't care.
The newly reformed IRA have just claimed responsibility of killing David Black. And as I said their reason is because of the un-going dispute at Roe House..
In a statement to the Irish News newspaper, the group says the killing was in direct response to conditions within Maghaberry Prison.
I'm trying to get the statement in full. Wether you argree or disagree with the killing the fact remains that until the NIO/Prison service put in place the arrangement agreed last year. It'll probably happen again.
Just becasue someone is locked up, doesn't mean they have there basic human rights taken away.
I'm trying to get the statement in full. Wether you argree or disagree with the killing the fact remains that until the NIO/Prison service put in place the arrangement agreed last year. It'll probably happen again.
Just becasue someone is locked up, doesn't mean they have there basic human rights taken away.
Phoenix: The newly reformed IRA have just claimed responsibility of killing David Black. And as I said their reason is because of the un-going dispute at Roe House..
No, the reason is because they are terrorists. If you have a problem with the way you are being treated in prison there are ways of going about making complaints - and it's not like they don't have supporters on the outside lobbying for them.
I wonder what excuses you'll come up with when the latest version of the IRA kill a cop or soldier?
snowlynx: No, the reason is because they are terrorists.
Are prison officers terrorising prisoners today in Roe Hse? Yes. So who is the terrorist? The prisoner or the PO. In few posts back I put up what recently happended to a prisoner (who was shackled) was beaten and terrorized by PO's on his way to court!!!!!
snowlynx: If you have a problem with the way you are being treated in prison there are ways of going about making complaints - and it's not like they don't have supporters on the outside lobbying for them.
I have personally written to the Justice Minsiter for the o6c and emailed his dept. asking for answers (I've have done several times) but they don't reply. I've also asked the justice dept. and senior NIO officials to explain to me in private and on public forums what is happening in Roe Hse..Again they refuse to answer!!!!
snowlynx: I wonder what excuses you'll come up with when the latest version of the IRA kill a cop or soldier?
I don't make excuses snowy..I'll tell you (and anyone who asks me) why the stalemate is continuing and why it is very possible more PO's are probably going to be shot. Because you only want to see one side of the arguement isn't my fault. The dispute in Roe Hse can be brought to peaceful solutition by simply introducing a body scanner (as they have in airports through out the world today)..that was agreed by everyone last year. The reason why the NIO and senior PO's went back on their word, I don't have the answer for that. But it isn't for the want of trying to find out why. You on the other hand simply want to apportion the blame on anti agreement republicans...
Phoenix: Are prison officers terrorising prisoners today in Roe Hse? Yes. So who is the terrorist? The prisoner or the PO. In few posts back I put up what recently happended to a prisoner (who was shackled) was beaten and terrorized by PO's on his way to court!!!!!
I have personally written to the Justice Minsiter for the o6c and emailed his dept. asking for answers (I've have done several times) but they don't reply. I've also asked the justice dept. and senior NIO officials to explain to me in private and on public forums what is happening in Roe Hse..Again they refuse to answer!!!!
I don't make excuses snowy..I'll tell you (and anyone who asks me) why the stalemate is continuing and why it is very possible more PO's are probably going to be shot. Because you only want to see one side of the arguement isn't my fault. The dispute in Roe Hse can be brought to peaceful solutition by simply introducing a body scanner (as they have in airports through out the world today)..that was agreed by everyone last year. The reason why the NIO and senior PO's went back on their word, I don't have the answer for that. But it isn't for the want of trying to find out why. You on the other hand simply want to apportion the blame on anti agreement republicans...
I have personally written to the Justice Minsiter for the o6c and emailed his dept. asking for answers (I've have done several times) but they don't reply. I've also asked the justice dept. and senior NIO officials to explain to me in private and on public forums what is happening in Roe Hse..Again they refuse to answer!!!!
I don't make excuses snowy..I'll tell you (and anyone who asks me) why the stalemate is continuing and why it is very possible more PO's are probably going to be shot. Because you only want to see one side of the arguement isn't my fault. The dispute in Roe Hse can be brought to peaceful solutition by simply introducing a body scanner (as they have in airports through out the world today)..that was agreed by everyone last year. The reason why the NIO and senior PO's went back on their word, I don't have the answer for that. But it isn't for the want of trying to find out why. You on the other hand simply want to apportion the blame on anti agreement republicans...
Even if everything was fine and dandy in the prisons the IRA would still try and kill cops and soldiers so your argument is spurious. I wonder what excuse you would come up with then?
snowlynx: Even if everything was fine and dandy in the prisons the IRA would still try and kill cops and soldiers so your argument is spurious. I wonder what excuse you would come up with then?
Everything isn't 'fine and dandy' in Roe Hse snowy!!! Far from it. Why will phyiscal force republicans continue to target members of the security services..Try this for size, they've deemed them legit targets. Even you on this thread have agreed that britain doesn't have any right to be in the o6c. The PSNI are a political police force.
Several posts ago you mentioned Loughall and Gibraltar. I clearly showed you what really happened. You didn't say 'Sorry phoenix called it wrong'. Yesterday on another thread your claim as to why the third home rule bill wasn't enshrined in law again was of the mark. Again you didn't say 'phonenix called that wrong too'..
You've claimed throught out this thread that I haven't a clue about the history of Ireland or whats happening to today in the North of the Island of Ireland. When I've clearly shown my grasp of events is very much up to date.
You've also said I'm living on the UK mainland and what am I doing about. In my last post i've outlined some things I'm doing...
What are you doing about it? Apart from blaming republicans!!!!
Phoenix: Everything isn't 'fine and dandy' in Roe Hse snowy!!! Far from it. Why will phyiscal force republicans continue to target members of the security services..Try this for size, they've deemed them legit targets. Even you on this thread have agreed that britain doesn't have any right to be in the o6c. The PSNI are a political police force.
Several posts ago you mentioned Loughall and Gibraltar. I clearly showed you what really happened. You didn't say 'Sorry phoenix called it wrong'. Yesterday on another thread your claim as to why the third home rule bill wasn't enshrined in law again was of the mark. Again you didn't say 'phonenix called that wrong too'..
You've claimed throught out this thread that I haven't a clue about the history of Ireland or whats happening to today in the North of the Island of Ireland. When I've clearly shown my grasp of events is very much up to date.
You've also said I'm living on the UK mainland and what am I doing about. In my last post i've outlined some things I'm doing...
What are you doing about it? Apart from blaming republicans!!!!
Several posts ago you mentioned Loughall and Gibraltar. I clearly showed you what really happened. You didn't say 'Sorry phoenix called it wrong'. Yesterday on another thread your claim as to why the third home rule bill wasn't enshrined in law again was of the mark. Again you didn't say 'phonenix called that wrong too'..
You've claimed throught out this thread that I haven't a clue about the history of Ireland or whats happening to today in the North of the Island of Ireland. When I've clearly shown my grasp of events is very much up to date.
You've also said I'm living on the UK mainland and what am I doing about. In my last post i've outlined some things I'm doing...
What are you doing about it? Apart from blaming republicans!!!!
Lol, you haven't read what I wrote!
I said that if everything in the prisons was fine then the dissident republican campaign would continue anyway, so it's spurious to use that as an excuse, you've no answer to that.
Britain isn't 'in' NI, NI is part of the UK, that's what the people want, it's called democracy, you wouldn't understand.
On Loughall and Gibralter, lets stick to the facts? the SAS took out the terrorists before they had the chance to kill anyone, something the democratic state has the right to do. Your conspiracy theories about agents and so on have no relevance to that simple fact.
Hopefully there will be a Loughall the next time the dissidents try to murder someone.
Just to sum up.....
the vote that you want - the island voting as a whole, as one entity, on unity - will NEVER happen, not now not ever. For it to happen the GFA would have to be set aside and no party in the south (even SF) is prepared to do that. The only people who want that are the fringe (lunatic fringe!) republicans like RSF and 32CSM.
The GFA will never be set aside, the type of vote you want will NEVER happen, but still you keep propagandising on here for terrorists!
the vote that you want - the island voting as a whole, as one entity, on unity - will NEVER happen, not now not ever. For it to happen the GFA would have to be set aside and no party in the south (even SF) is prepared to do that. The only people who want that are the fringe (lunatic fringe!) republicans like RSF and 32CSM.
The GFA will never be set aside, the type of vote you want will NEVER happen, but still you keep propagandising on here for terrorists!
snowlynx: You still haven't answered my question 'even if everything was fine in the prison the dissidents would still be trying to kill members of the security forces, therefore your argument about the situtation in the prison being the cause of the conflict is spurious!
Can someone please explain to snowy that I said the reason David Black was killed was directly linked to what is happening today in Roe House and I never once said the prison situ is the root cause of the problem in the o6c..!!!! I have tried to explain that to him several times.
While you are it (explaining to snowy what I said) can you also explain that until the British presence leaves the o6c for good phyiscal forece republicans will always consider members of the British securtiy services as legit targets (I'm not asking you to agree with their stance but can you explain to snowy why it will continue)..For what ever reason he can't understand what I'm saying!!!!
snowlynx: You don't understand the GFA!! If you did then you would realise that there has to be a majority in NI in favour of unity for a united Ireland to take place. There has to be a majority in both the north AND in the south, voting separately. For this reason dissident republicans would not accept the vote (they would only accept a vote of the whole island voting as one entity), and would keep on killing until regardless.
First stop using the term dissident republicans. I find it offensive. Call them anti agreement or phyiscal force republicans. Again (if you take time to read the thread) I've shown clearly that SF are the ones who have dissented.
I have read several times the GFA. I've also said that it is one of the most unambiguous documents I've ever read. I've also asked for it to be implemented in full. If it ever is, one of the very first things that should happen is a poll. If you actually took time to read the paper you'll discover that there is a built in unionist veto (kinda knocks your democratic arguement on it's head). I don't know (neither do you) know the out come of any poll, vote or referendum before it takes place. What I am asking is simply let the people decided. But they can't because someone in Whitehall wont implement in full the GFA!!!! Ask yourself why. One of the brokers of the GFA was Sen. George Mitchell said very shortly after the signing in 1998 "the easy part was over, the hard part is implementing it"...
snowlynx: I think it's possible you don't understand this provision of the GFA, please read it again as this is vital.
Snowy I know exactly what I'm talking about. Again what are you doing apart from laying the blame at republicans???? I noticed you glossed over the arms shipment set up by British ministers and Whitehall in 1988 that went directly to Loyalist paramilitaries. When I mentioned the Stalker reports earlier you've yet to tell me why is hasn't been released. Maybe you can tell me why John was removed from his post!!!!
Lets again look at events on the Rock. It has been proven that British intelligence knew the details in advance but in their infinite wisdom they decided to kill three unarmed PIRA members. That directly led to the deaths of five more people (two who were undercover cops)..Now if they had of arrested the Gibraltar three, eight people may very well have been alive today...
Again what do I know..
@Phoenix.
Could you keep your replies shorter and more concise?
Yes indeed you do understand the provisions of the GFA and I was wrong to say you hadn't...there has to be a majority in the north to join with the south.(what you wrongly call a 'unionist veto') it's called democracy. Maybe there should be such a poll in the North, though the result would be a foregone conclusion and would have no effect on dissident republicans so I don't see what point it would serve?
As you say the consequences of Gibralter were terrible but that was only because the Brits didn't take adequete security, the backlash should have been predicted. They should have put Belfast on Lockdown, a curfew of sorts, just like the Israelis do with the Gaza strip. That would have prevented terrorist activity and the savages who killed those two unfortunate British corporals.
Could you keep your replies shorter and more concise?
Yes indeed you do understand the provisions of the GFA and I was wrong to say you hadn't...there has to be a majority in the north to join with the south.(what you wrongly call a 'unionist veto') it's called democracy. Maybe there should be such a poll in the North, though the result would be a foregone conclusion and would have no effect on dissident republicans so I don't see what point it would serve?
As you say the consequences of Gibralter were terrible but that was only because the Brits didn't take adequete security, the backlash should have been predicted. They should have put Belfast on Lockdown, a curfew of sorts, just like the Israelis do with the Gaza strip. That would have prevented terrorist activity and the savages who killed those two unfortunate British corporals.
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The Arrest of former Provo commander Padraig Wilson: Some Thoughts, Some Questions.
Since the UK Tory led Coalition government came to power in 2010, there seems to have been a sea change in how the British government deals with the Irish peace process. There are worrying signs of a return to the dark days when consecutive British governments used the police and security services as its main arm of government within the six counties.
Over the past two years the Secretary of State for northern Ireland rubber stamped the imprisonment of Irish republicans without following through on the judicial process. In recent weeks we have also seen disturbing signs that the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) is targeting members of Sinn Fein who were senior volunteers during the Provo insurgency.[/i}
The other blogger to keep an eye on (maybe some of you will start to understand what people in the o6c are thinking)