Republicans kill prison officer .. (201)
jimbo79: phoenix, i think you are a little either behind the times or askew of them, there is already a massive silent movement towards unity, but you won't find it on a soccer field, you are far to anglisised excuse my spelling to grasp it, the only way to achieve a 32 county republic is by cultural means, ie the gaa or orange lodges, there has been huge movements in both these organisations in the last few years an it is here you will build the bridge of unity, by respecting both sides differences and embracing them, instead of reading so called republican websites as your education try your local gaa or orange lodge and see the change these are slowly trying to make happen, unity will only ever be achieved through mutual respect, not by forcing one view on another
Good point, the border is becoming increasingly unimportant because of groups like the gaa, orange order, sports bodies and cultural groups.
snowlynx: Good point, the border is becoming increasingly unimportant because of groups like the gaa, orange order, sports bodies and cultural groups.
I'd be very slow to sanitise the Orange Order the way you two are. They are still despicable bigots, the same as their equally abhorrent counterparts in the AOH. They should have their place in history but those of us who have managed to climb out of the dark ages, should very much hope that both these evil organisations and the sick philosophies that drive them on, become nothing more than historical artefacts in a few years.
Very unfair to compare the GAA as an organisation to scum like the Orange order. GAA makes a valuable sporting and cultural contribution to society, the same as Soccer, Rugby and other sporting bodies do. The Oramge order on the other hand is just a meeting ground for neanderthals, ultra-conservatives and quasi-fascists.
snowlynx: @Phoenix, first of all I'm not asking you to defend your point of view in any court I just think it would be fair if you informed the authorites where you live that you support terrorism in another part of the UK, so that they could monitor you, after all the dissidents will try to bomb the British mainland if they get strong enough. That would be the honest thing to do.
Lets keep this clear. Anyone who I have come into contact with in RL (includes various police forces in Europe) know exactly my point of view concerning the o6c. Again this word 'Terrorism' that you brandish about..Isn't beating prisoners a form of terror? Isn't what the UK gov are doing in Iraq, Afghanistan terror too??? Quantify exactly how you interpret a terrorist...?
snowlynx: Let's be quite clear on one thing, I don't want you to be shot because of your views, I would only want that IF you came back to the North and tried to kill a cop/soldier/prison officer. Before you accuse me of supporting violence remember that only one of us thought the murder last week was acceptable, and it wasn't me!
Show me where I said it was acceptable? Just once. Now I can show you where I said it was inevitable. Not the same ballpark. I've also explained the reason behind the killing. I've also explained how it could have been avoided. I can show you again where you clearly said on this thread where you'd like to see the PSNI 'take me out'. I'll give you the same reply as I did to sharmini..Anyone who uses violence against me. I will return the serve (in that have no doubt).
snowlynx: You keep going on about an all-island vote on the north's future. The GFA lays down that there can only be a united Ireland if a majority vote for it in the North and the South, voting in separate referendums (just like the vote on the GFA itself!) so your all-island vote (one vote on the island as a whole) is just not going to happen, NEVER! not now not ever. Even the Shinners have signed up to that! The only parties who haven't are the fringe republican parties.
Have you atcually read the GFA? In it there is a clause for a Border poll. Scrib also mentioned it. So lets have a border poll thah has been democratically voted for and endorsed by the people of the Ireland. Thats what was voted for. in 1998..This is 2012 and still no vote.
jimbo79: phoenix, i think you are a little either behind the times or askew of them, there is already a massive silent movement towards unity, but you won't find it on a soccer field, you are far to anglisised excuse my spelling to grasp it, the only way to achieve a 32 county republic is by cultural means, ie the gaa or orange lodges, there has been huge movements in both these organisations in the last few years an it is here you will build the bridge of unity, by respecting both sides differences and embracing them, instead of reading so called republican websites as your education try your local gaa or orange lodge and see the change these are slowly trying to make happen, unity will only ever be achieved through mutual respect, not by forcing one view on another
Is The Order Anti Roman Catholic?
The Order seeks to promote the Reformed Faith and therefore is opposed to the teachings of Roman Catholicism. We welcome dialogue wilth all for the purpose of expounding our beliefs.
The Loyal Orders...This organisation that sing sectarian songs outside a catholic chapel a few weeks ago while the PSNI (who are meant to up hold law and order) do nothing. Don't talk to me about Loyal Orders. Exactly how many catholics are allowed to join them again?. Why if you claim jimbo the Loyal Orders are for untiy and mutal respect don't they enter into dialogue with various resident groups to prevent violence occuring repeatly year in year out in Belfast, Derry....?
I'm aware the GAA has made overt moves to reconcile the differences but don't tell me the Loyal orders have. I stand to be corrected.
I don't just read and post on various republican forums (both anti & pro agreement ones)..I also read various loyalist forums..Read papers from both sides of the community available to anyone on line. And then I make a decision on what I've read. And also I have a wealth of personal experiences to draw from and those of my family.
Phoenix: Lets keep this clear. Anyone who I have come into contact with in RL (includes various police forces in Europe) know exactly my point of view concerning the o6c. Again this word 'Terrorism' that you brandish about..Isn't beating prisoners a form of terror? Isn't what the UK gov are doing in Iraq, Afghanistan terror too??? Quantify exactly how you interpret a terrorist...?
Show me where I said it was acceptable? Just once. Now I can show you where I said it was inevitable. Not the same ballpark. I've also explained the reason behind the killing. I've also explained how it could have been avoided. I can show you again where you clearly said on this thread where you'd like to see the PSNI 'take me out'. I'll give you the same reply as I did to sharmini..Anyone who uses violence against me. I will return the serve (in that have no doubt).Have you atcually read the GFA? In it there is a clause for a Border poll. Scrib also mentioned it. So lets have a border poll thah has been democratically voted for and endorsed by the people of the Ireland. Thats what was voted for. in 1998..This is 2012 and still no vote.
Show me where I said it was acceptable? Just once. Now I can show you where I said it was inevitable. Not the same ballpark. I've also explained the reason behind the killing. I've also explained how it could have been avoided. I can show you again where you clearly said on this thread where you'd like to see the PSNI 'take me out'. I'll give you the same reply as I did to sharmini..Anyone who uses violence against me. I will return the serve (in that have no doubt).Have you atcually read the GFA? In it there is a clause for a Border poll. Scrib also mentioned it. So lets have a border poll thah has been democratically voted for and endorsed by the people of the Ireland. Thats what was voted for. in 1998..This is 2012 and still no vote.
You are always squirming around trying to find justification to support terror in the North, now you're telling me that it's ok to kill someone in the north because the Brits are killing people in Iraq and Afghanistan! That sort of moral relativism is repulsive, the killing in the north last week was wrong, pure and simple.
The poll you keep talking about would not be enough to satisfy extreme republicans because it would not be an all Ireland vote with all the people on the island voting as one. They would reject it for the same reason they rejected the GFA.
I can't fathom why someone who grew up in the middle of the troubles like you did wants to drag us back into the murder and mayhem of the 1970's and 80's!
scriobhneoir: I'd be very slow to sanitise the Orange Order the way you two are. They are still despicable bigots, the same as their equally abhorrent counterparts in the AOH. They should have their place in history but those of us who have managed to climb out of the dark ages, should very much hope that both these evil organisations and the sick philosophies that drive them on, become nothing more than historical artefacts in a few years.
Very unfair to compare the GAA as an organisation to scum like the Orange order. GAA makes a valuable sporting and cultural contribution to society, the same as Soccer, Rugby and other sporting bodies do. The Oramge order on the other hand is just a meeting ground for neanderthals, ultra-conservatives and quasi-fascists.
Very unfair to compare the GAA as an organisation to scum like the Orange order. GAA makes a valuable sporting and cultural contribution to society, the same as Soccer, Rugby and other sporting bodies do. The Oramge order on the other hand is just a meeting ground for neanderthals, ultra-conservatives and quasi-fascists.
There are some in the Orange Order like you describe but there are many decent people too. The GAA didn't always make a positive contribution either with its ban on security force members and so on.
"Show me where I said it was acceptable? Just once. Now I can show you where I said it was inevitable. Not the same ballpark. I've also explained the reason behind the killing. I've also explained how it could have been avoided. I can show you again where you clearly said on this thread where you'd like to see the PSNI 'take me out'. I'll give you the same reply as I did to sharmini..Anyone who uses violence against me. I will return the serve (in that have no doubt)."
"Cuse me? Phoenix, I have never wished you harm, so leave me out of this one, ok? You dont condone this murder but you dont condemn it either. You say you "understand" the reasons behind it or leading up to it? that is where we part company in our opinions. I could see where trouble in the jail might lead to riots, noncooperation...even to hear that supporters had hasseld prison staff on their way home from work....to vent their frustration......not right but it happens..but to take a life..no thats way too far and can never be justified, explained, understood.....never!
And quite honestly, this double speak that "republicans" have developed....I think the people are tired of it and seeing through it. I posed a question for you yesterday and am still waiting for a
response...re summary justice and democracy?
"Cuse me? Phoenix, I have never wished you harm, so leave me out of this one, ok? You dont condone this murder but you dont condemn it either. You say you "understand" the reasons behind it or leading up to it? that is where we part company in our opinions. I could see where trouble in the jail might lead to riots, noncooperation...even to hear that supporters had hasseld prison staff on their way home from work....to vent their frustration......not right but it happens..but to take a life..no thats way too far and can never be justified, explained, understood.....never!
And quite honestly, this double speak that "republicans" have developed....I think the people are tired of it and seeing through it. I posed a question for you yesterday and am still waiting for a
response...re summary justice and democracy?
snowlynx: You are always squirming around trying to find justification to support terror in the North, now you're telling me that it's ok to kill someone in the north because the Brits are killing people in Iraq and Afghanistan! That sort of moral relativism is repulsive, the killing in the north last week was wrong, pure and simple.(/quote]
Show me snowy where I once said anywhere that I support terrorism? In my last post please point out to me where I said it's 'OK to kill because of whats happening in Iraq or Afghanistan'..? What did I ask you (and I'm asking again)..Is for YOU to define the word TERRORISM. What I have done through out this thread is explain the reasons behind the killing of David Black. I haven't said I agreed with it. I have however said I understand why it happened. Not the same thing.
The poll you keep talking about would not be enough to satisfy extreme republicans because it would not be an all Ireland vote with all the people on the island voting as one. They would reject it for the same reason they rejected the GFA.
Show me snowy where I once said anywhere that I support terrorism? In my last post please point out to me where I said it's 'OK to kill because of whats happening in Iraq or Afghanistan'..? What did I ask you (and I'm asking again)..Is for YOU to define the word TERRORISM. What I have done through out this thread is explain the reasons behind the killing of David Black. I haven't said I agreed with it. I have however said I understand why it happened. Not the same thing.
The poll you keep talking about would not be enough to satisfy extreme republicans because it would not be an all Ireland vote with all the people on the island voting as one. They would reject it for the same reason they rejected the GFA.
The poll/vote which I have asked for here and in other places is exactly what people asked for when they voted YES for the GFA. Again have you actually read it? If you have you'll see clearly a clause that allows for it. I'm asking lets have the poll/vote. Incase you (or others doubt the wording...) here is a link to PDF copy of the GFA..
Read it snowy (if only to know what you voted for or against in 1998)..
I seriously doubt if any major party in the 26 counties would canvass against a united Ireland. Anytime I've asked people outside of Ireland what they think (includes British people) the vast majority say..Give the o6c back to the Irish.
snowlynx: I can't fathom why someone who grew up in the middle of the troubles like you did wants to drag us back into the murder and mayhem of the 1970's and 80's!
Where have I said I want a return to the troubles..? We both know you'd like to see violent republicans lined up and shot. Now that would bring about a re-run of the troubles. Personally I think it's better to talk. Even today the wife of a former Governor of the Maze prison whose husband was killed by the PIRA has called for talk with physical force republicans.
What I have done and will continue to do is explain the reasons behind it.
Why wont the top end of SF/PRM (most of who are former members of the PIRA) simply tell the PSNI all they know instead of asking 'Joe Blogs' to become an informer and putting their families at risk..?
Phoenix: The poll/vote which I have asked for here and in other places is exactly what people asked for when they voted YES for the GFA. Again have you actually read it? If you have you'll see clearly a clause that allows for it. I'm asking lets have the poll/vote. Incase you (or others doubt the wording...) here is a link to PDF copy of the GFA..
Read it snowy (if only to know what you voted for or against in 1998)..
I seriously doubt if any major party in the 26 counties would canvass against a united Ireland. Anytime I've asked people outside of Ireland what they think (includes British people) the vast majority say..Give the o6c back to the Irish.
Where have I said I want a return to the troubles..? We both know you'd like to see violent republicans lined up and shot. Now that would bring about a re-run of the troubles. Personally I think it's better to talk. Even today the wife of a former Governor of the Maze prison whose husband was killed by the PIRA has called for talk with physical force republicans.
What I have done and will continue to do is explain the reasons behind it.
Why wont the top end of SF/PRM (most of who are former members of the PIRA) simply tell the PSNI all they know instead of asking 'Joe Blogs' to become an informer and putting their families at risk..?
Read it snowy (if only to know what you voted for or against in 1998)..
I seriously doubt if any major party in the 26 counties would canvass against a united Ireland. Anytime I've asked people outside of Ireland what they think (includes British people) the vast majority say..Give the o6c back to the Irish.
Where have I said I want a return to the troubles..? We both know you'd like to see violent republicans lined up and shot. Now that would bring about a re-run of the troubles. Personally I think it's better to talk. Even today the wife of a former Governor of the Maze prison whose husband was killed by the PIRA has called for talk with physical force republicans.
What I have done and will continue to do is explain the reasons behind it.
Why wont the top end of SF/PRM (most of who are former members of the PIRA) simply tell the PSNI all they know instead of asking 'Joe Blogs' to become an informer and putting their families at risk..?
I've caught you out!!
You have competely ignored the point I raised. The GFA does NOT provide for the type of poll on an all-island basis that you said you wanted earlier in this thread, therefore you are wrong, plain and simple.
It must be great to live in the Alice in Wonderland world you live in where words can mean anything you want them to mean! Once again I have to point out to you that it is you not me who are supporting the only people using violence in the North, and yet you claim that I support violence! It would be funny if it wasn't so serious.
Why don't you go somewhere like Bosnia where there are plenty of fanatics itching to slaughter one another? Oh no I forgot, you're more comfortable in England!
snowlynx: I've caught you out!!
You have competely ignored the point I raised. The GFA does NOT provide for the type of poll on an all-island basis that you said you wanted earlier in this thread, therefore you are wrong, plain and simple.
It must be great to live in the Alice in Wonderland world you live in where words can mean anything you want them to mean! Once again I have to point out to you that it is you not me who are supporting the only people using violence in the North, and yet you claim that I support violence! It would be funny if it wasn't so serious.
Why don't you go somewhere like Bosnia where there are plenty of fanatics itching to slaughter one another? Oh no I forgot, you're more comfortable in England!
You have competely ignored the point I raised. The GFA does NOT provide for the type of poll on an all-island basis that you said you wanted earlier in this thread, therefore you are wrong, plain and simple.
It must be great to live in the Alice in Wonderland world you live in where words can mean anything you want them to mean! Once again I have to point out to you that it is you not me who are supporting the only people using violence in the North, and yet you claim that I support violence! It would be funny if it wasn't so serious.
Why don't you go somewhere like Bosnia where there are plenty of fanatics itching to slaughter one another? Oh no I forgot, you're more comfortable in England!
Have you read the GFA? I have. I've asked for an all island vote. I know the provisions made for a border vote/poll or what ever..Please go and click the link and read it. You and others talk about democracy. What about the vote/poll allowed for in GFA..? Why hasn't it happened?
“affirm that, if, in future, the people of the island of Ireland exercise their right of self-determination on the basis set out in sections (i) and (ii) above to bring about a united Ireland, it will be a binding obligation on both governments to introduce and support in their respective Parliaments legislation to give effect to that wish”
Sections (i) and (ii) referred to are the requirement for the consent of a majority within the North and the provision for concurrent referenda North and South.
Phoenix: Have you read the GFA? I have. I've asked for an all island vote. I know the provisions made for a border vote/poll or what ever..Please go and click the link and read it. You and others talk about democracy. What about the vote/poll allowed for in GFA..? Why hasn't it happened?
“affirm that, if, in future, the people of the island of Ireland exercise their right of self-determination on the basis set out in sections (i) and (ii) above to bring about a united Ireland, it will be a binding obligation on both governments to introduce and support in their respective Parliaments legislation to give effect to that wish”
Sections (i) and (ii) referred to are the requirement for the consent of a majority within the North and the provision for concurrent referenda North and South.
“affirm that, if, in future, the people of the island of Ireland exercise their right of self-determination on the basis set out in sections (i) and (ii) above to bring about a united Ireland, it will be a binding obligation on both governments to introduce and support in their respective Parliaments legislation to give effect to that wish”
Sections (i) and (ii) referred to are the requirement for the consent of a majority within the North and the provision for concurrent referenda North and South.
I have read the GFA and as your quote shows there has to be consent within both states (a majority) for unity. The vote in the north would not be for unity, you surely can't be so unrealistic as to think otherwise. The dissidents would continue what they are doing because they dont' accept the GFA or any poll it might provide for. So the problems remains, their campaign would go on!
sharmini: "Show me where I said it was acceptable? Just once. Now I can show you where I said it was inevitable. Not the same ballpark. I've also explained the reason behind the killing. I've also explained how it could have been avoided. I can show you again where you clearly said on this thread where you'd like to see the PSNI 'take me out'. I'll give you the same reply as I did to sharmini..Anyone who uses violence against me. I will return the serve (in that have no doubt)."
Sorry for the crossed wires. But I stand by what I said about anyone using violence twoards me.
I see you failed you mention the beatings carried out by prison staff on prisoners. The degrading way they are searched. The inhumae conditions they are forced to live under. Or why the arrangement agreed last year by all concerned has yet to be put into practise.
What double speak sharmini? A lot of posters have said 'We voted for the GFA in 1998, it was democratic, so shut up phoneix' (or words to that affect).
Lets have democracy. Lets implement in FULL the terms and conditions voted for and agreed by the vast majority of the people of Ireland. I'm not picking or choosing what is put in place. I'm asking for all of the GFA to be put in place. Justice...the HET are meant to reopen all unsolved cases where people died during the troubles. Exactly how many former and serving RUC/PSNI are being investigated? How many former and present British soliders are being investigated? How many Mi5...? Why isn't either Peter Robinson or Martin McG being investigated? Marty is responsible either directly or indirectly for at least the deasth of 30 PO's during the 'dirty protest'. Peter Robinson who once headed ulster resistance.
And the beauty of it is that you can change those laws without resort to means that tear at the very fabric of democracy...summary justice, as meted out in this murder.
sharmini: "Cuse me? Phoenix, I have never wished you harm, so leave me out of this one, ok?
Sorry for the crossed wires. But I stand by what I said about anyone using violence twoards me.
sharmini: You dont condone this murder but you dont condemn it either. You say you "understand" the reasons behind it or leading up to it? that is where we part company in our opinions. I could see where trouble in the jail might lead to riots, noncooperation...even to hear that supporters had hasseld prison staff on their way home from work....to vent their frustration......not right but it happens..but to take a life..no thats way too far and can never be justified, explained, understood.....never!
I see you failed you mention the beatings carried out by prison staff on prisoners. The degrading way they are searched. The inhumae conditions they are forced to live under. Or why the arrangement agreed last year by all concerned has yet to be put into practise.
sharmini: "And quite honestly, this double speak that "republicans" have developed....I think the people are tired of it and seeing through it. I posed a question for you yesterday and am still waiting for a
response...re summary justice and democracy?|/b]
response...re summary justice and democracy?|/b]
What double speak sharmini? A lot of posters have said 'We voted for the GFA in 1998, it was democratic, so shut up phoneix' (or words to that affect).
Lets have democracy. Lets implement in FULL the terms and conditions voted for and agreed by the vast majority of the people of Ireland. I'm not picking or choosing what is put in place. I'm asking for all of the GFA to be put in place. Justice...the HET are meant to reopen all unsolved cases where people died during the troubles. Exactly how many former and serving RUC/PSNI are being investigated? How many former and present British soliders are being investigated? How many Mi5...? Why isn't either Peter Robinson or Martin McG being investigated? Marty is responsible either directly or indirectly for at least the deasth of 30 PO's during the 'dirty protest'. Peter Robinson who once headed ulster resistance.
And the beauty of it is that you can change those laws without resort to means that tear at the very fabric of democracy...summary justice, as meted out in this murder.
Sharmini..Let me fix the above post..(give me 5mins)
sharmini:
And quite honestly, this double speak that "republicans" have developed....I think the people are tired of it and seeing through it. I posed a question for you yesterday and am still waiting for a
response...re summary justice and democracy?
And quite honestly, this double speak that "republicans" have developed....I think the people are tired of it and seeing through it. I posed a question for you yesterday and am still waiting for a
response...re summary justice and democracy?
What double speak sharmini? A lot of posters have said 'We voted for the GFA in 1998, it was democratic, so shut up phoneix' (or words to that affect).
Lets have democracy. Lets implement in FULL the terms and conditions voted for and agreed by the vast majority of the people of Ireland. I'm not picking or choosing what is put in place. I'm asking for all of the GFA to be put in place. Justice...the HET are meant to reopen all unsolved cases where people died during the troubles. Exactly how many former and serving RUC/PSNI are being investigated? How many former and present British soliders are being investigated? How many Mi5...? Why isn't either Peter Robinson or Martin McG being investigated? Marty is responsible either directly or indirectly for at least the deasth of 30 PO's during the 'dirty protest'. Peter Robinson who once headed Ulster Resistance who along with the help Mi5&6 imported arms from South Africa in 1988 with the sole intend of killing innocent people. Why isn't the rule of law brought down on the OFDFM?? Lets have everything out in the open and not pick and choose what the HET investigates.
What I'm not prepared to do is what a lot of people here and in other places are doing and level the problem at the door of phyiscal force republicanism. The NIO and prsion service have to accept there portion of blame for PO Blacks killing last week.
sharmini: And the beauty of it is that you can change those laws without resort to means that tear at the very fabric of democracy...summary justice, as meted out in this murder.
The GFA is meant to be law but the puttpet masters pick and choose what part of it they want to implement. Lets have the border poll that people voted for. I've listened to people saying it's not wanted etc..Lets put it to the vote. Lets have democracy.
Most people here are saying that violence isn't the way foward (I agree). Let me remind you that the 26counties came into being on the back of some the worse violence metted out in Ireland not only by the British but Irish upon Irish. SF are in power today in the o6c becuase of the 30 year campaign of violence.
I'm all for justice and demoracy but it has to be even handed.
sharmini:
"Cuse me? Phoenix, I have never wished you harm, so leave me out of this one, ok?
"Cuse me? Phoenix, I have never wished you harm, so leave me out of this one, ok?
Sharmini I'm going to correct myself/clear up the misunderstanding.
When I said I'll give snowy the same response that I gave you in relation to violence being used against me...
sharmini: “Oh I do! I do! But I stop short of agreeing that anyone or group have a right to decide who lives and who dies! On the logic of your defence of that muder, you could turn around and shoot me if I got in your way or didnt agree with you!”
phoenix: I haven't defended it. I've explained the rational behind it. Deffo not the same ball park. In a direct reply to your question. I've disagreed with most people here and vice versa on David Blacks killing. I wont kill anyone (or use violence because of different points of view). But if anyone uses violence towards me I will return the serve. And violence is being metted out in Roe Hse today on prisoners by those sworn to up-hold the rule of law.
“I live in the North of this Island and this is my mind set as it is of the majority of the six counties, as has been proven constantly in the voting polls when the dissidents stand in local elections.”
I've been told I haven't a clue about the mindset of people in the o6c. Simply because I at present no longer live there..
This is directly from todays Newsletter (a newspaper predominantly read by protestants)...
"But for me it was a perfectly legitimate remark. Sinn Fein’s upper ranks are top heavy with people who have been members of the IRA. These people know how a republican terror group works. They know the funding sources and recruitment grounds. They know what’s involved in planning a hit. They almost certainly know the names of some people who would be sympathetic to the ‘dissidents’.
If they have truly bought into the peace/political process then they can’t shy away from supplying any piece of information which might prove useful in destabilising all of the republican splinter groups......
There is no point in telling others to talk to PSNI if the real ‘experts’ remain silent. There is no point in describing these terror groups as ‘small and isolated’ if you aren’t fully committed to helping the PSNI (who don’t have the same level of insight to and hands-on experience of active terrorists as the RUC) and more specialised security forces, to uproot and destroy them. Words really aren’t enough at a time like this.
Later, shortly after Martin McGuinness had said that Mr Black’s murder was ‘without justification’, I posted this question: “What is the key difference between what the Provisional IRA was trying to achieve and what the ‘dissidents’ are trying to do?”
It seemed to me that asking a question about why only some murders are ‘without justification’ (and it needs to be remembered that Mr McGuinness has never felt able to say that about all of the murders and atrocities committed by the PIRA) goes right to the heart of why there is still so much distrust between both communities.
But I only get my information 'jimbo' from republican forums. And it's not (my opinions)..based on personal experience, listening to others peoples point of views or other...
Yup, I've lived outside of the o6c for yrs. But don't anyone tell me I have a REAL grasp of what people are thinking.
Isn't it very telling at the minute that last week three people were arrested on the killing of David Black (two from the North who have been released unconditionally) and the ONLY person still being held in custody is from Co. Letrim...
But I'm meant to believe it's only a problem for people living in the North.
phoenix: Dissisdents...Who dissented from what? The quislings have. They've turned 180° from what they believed in. I prefer to call republicans who dissagree with SF as what they are anti agreement republicans. Since David Blacks killing the top of SF have been calling on members of the public to inform to the PSNI on anything they know..Why don't they do it themselves.. Chances are they'd have a better idea who is behind what in nationalist areas than the public. Between us witty..Don't you think that a former OC of Derry has a better idea if the make up of anti agreement republicans in Derry than you..Or Gerry Adams (MP for BallyMurphy for yrs now TD for Louth) or Gerry Kelly in North Belfast...?
I've been told I haven't a clue about the mindset of people in the o6c. Simply because I at present no longer live there..
This is directly from todays Newsletter (a newspaper predominantly read by protestants)...
"But for me it was a perfectly legitimate remark. Sinn Fein’s upper ranks are top heavy with people who have been members of the IRA. These people know how a republican terror group works. They know the funding sources and recruitment grounds. They know what’s involved in planning a hit. They almost certainly know the names of some people who would be sympathetic to the ‘dissidents’.
If they have truly bought into the peace/political process then they can’t shy away from supplying any piece of information which might prove useful in destabilising all of the republican splinter groups......
There is no point in telling others to talk to PSNI if the real ‘experts’ remain silent. There is no point in describing these terror groups as ‘small and isolated’ if you aren’t fully committed to helping the PSNI (who don’t have the same level of insight to and hands-on experience of active terrorists as the RUC) and more specialised security forces, to uproot and destroy them. Words really aren’t enough at a time like this.
Later, shortly after Martin McGuinness had said that Mr Black’s murder was ‘without justification’, I posted this question: “What is the key difference between what the Provisional IRA was trying to achieve and what the ‘dissidents’ are trying to do?”
It seemed to me that asking a question about why only some murders are ‘without justification’ (and it needs to be remembered that Mr McGuinness has never felt able to say that about all of the murders and atrocities committed by the PIRA) goes right to the heart of why there is still so much distrust between both communities.
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/community/columnists/alex-kane-only-one-way-to-stop-dissidents-1-4442911
But I only get my information 'jimbo' from republican forums. And it's not (my opinions)..based on personal experience, listening to others peoples point of views or other...
Yup, I've lived outside of the o6c for yrs. But don't anyone tell me I have a REAL grasp of what people are thinking.
Isn't it very telling at the minute that last week three people were arrested on the killing of David Black (two from the North who have been released unconditionally) and the ONLY person still being held in custody is from Co. Letrim...
But I'm meant to believe it's only a problem for people living in the North.
Am I the only one wondering how getting into a big moral argument on the North is meant to help people get their holes?
scriobhneoir: Am I the only one wondering how getting into a big moral argument on the North is meant to help people get their holes?
So Scrib., how do you square the circle when one section of the divide refuses to talk to those who marches directly affect..???
And all the rest...
Well you dont murder people in cold blood!
And all the rest...
Well you dont murder people in cold blood!
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Let's be quite clear on one thing, I don't want you to be shot because of your views, I would only want that IF you came back to the North and tried to kill a cop/soldier/prison officer. Before you accuse me of supporting violence remember that only one of us thought the murder last week was acceptable, and it wasn't me!
You keep going on about an all-island vote on the north's future. The GFA lays down that there can only be a united Ireland if a majority vote for it in the North and the South, voting in separate referendums (just like the vote on the GFA itself!) so your all-island vote (one vote on the island as a whole) is just not going to happen, NEVER! not now not ever. Even the Shinners have signed up to that! The only parties who haven't are the fringe republican parties.