47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws ( Archived) (479)

Jan 18, 2013 7:44 PM CST 47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws
montemonte
montemontemontemonteunknown, New Jersey USA114 Threads 4 Polls 5,631 Posts
joyaepace: Yes, I got it. A good example would be the tyranny of the Bolsheviks who 'liberated' Russia in 1917 from the tzar. The absolute power of the tzar was of course oppressive, but was mild when compared with the ensuing Bolshevik terror. Bolsheviks said they were fighting for the rights of the majority of people, but ended tyrannizing everyone, were cruel regime.



Thanks Joy but I'm lost in all this tyranny talk.

I'm waiting for Tom to give his opinion on the fact that the new gun law requiring a maximum of 10 bullets in a magazine being a dangerous situation for law enforcement.
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Jan 18, 2013 7:45 PM CST 47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws
HealthyLiving
HealthyLivingHealthyLivingSomewhere In, Tennessee USA527 Threads 2 Polls 4,775 Posts
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
Part 1

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.

See part 2
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Jan 18, 2013 7:46 PM CST 47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws
OkieChic
OkieChicOkieChicOklahoma City, Oklahoma USA11 Threads 4 Polls 649 Posts
HealthyLiving: Yes we do, LOL, I was going to post that earlier but I got distracted with a phone call. Ya beat me to it, lol.

TTom is very well read and a pretty smart cookie when it comes to Politics. He does his research well. I always welcome his insightful contributions!

HL


I agree!! It's always nice to have someone intelligent who know's what they're talking about around, instead of babbling...lol

cheers
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Jan 18, 2013 7:47 PM CST 47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws
galrads
galradsgalradsDublin, Ohio USA2,264 Threads 279 Polls 36,283 Posts
montemonte: Wouldn't you think they would have thought about law enforcement being affected by a limit of 10 bullets in a magazine? It can't be intentional....has to be an oversight.

Maybe it could be intentional. It sounds like your local LEO's might know how to safely handle and fire a hand gun which they carry on duty. Here it's a different story. Most of our LEOs care about their pensions and have to be forced to practice to be qualified to carry or they lose their jobs. dunno
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Jan 18, 2013 7:51 PM CST 47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws
joyaepace
joyaepacejoyaepaceGalway, Ireland11 Threads 2 Polls 958 Posts
montemonte: Wouldn't you think they would have thought about law enforcement being affected by a limit of 10 bullets in a magazine? It can't be intentional....has to be an oversight.


The police in the UK don't carry firearms at all.
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Jan 18, 2013 7:51 PM CST 47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws
HealthyLiving
HealthyLivingHealthyLivingSomewhere In, Tennessee USA527 Threads 2 Polls 4,775 Posts
In lieu of the discussion of whether or not the United States is under a Tyranical Government, let us investigate by viewing the Declaration of Independence posted above in 2 parts.

Tyranical charges are described therein so... do we see any of the same behaviors happening today? Is our President acting accordingly?

Take a good look and lets talk about it.

HLpeace
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Jan 18, 2013 7:56 PM CST 47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws
OkieChic
OkieChicOkieChicOklahoma City, Oklahoma USA11 Threads 4 Polls 649 Posts
joyaepace: The police in the UK don't carry firearms at all.


no, they carry clubs, sticks, whatever you want to call them...I would NOT feel safe!!
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Jan 18, 2013 7:56 PM CST 47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws
TTom50
TTom50TTom50Orlando, Florida USA21 Threads 10 Polls 1,301 Posts
montemonte: This new gun law applies to everyone! Something you may not be aware of is that the maximum of 10 bullets per magazine is a problem for law enforcement. The new gun law should have excepted law enforcement officers....Secret Service, CIA, FBI, local police from the magazine maximum. It can't be assumed that they are the exception so from what I'm hearing this problem will be taken care of. So already an addendum has to be written to a law that is only days old.


What i think is that when the law is drafted in Congress....the Law Enforcement Associations....will have made the Congress aware of the 10 round magazine limit them as well. The gloc holds.....17 I think.

So Congress will write a law enforcement exclusion' to the bill. Allowing any weapon issued to law enfrocement to have more than 10 rounds.

But this 10 round mag to me it weakest of all the regs being proposed by the administration. Everyone and anyone saw Platoon, knows that you can tape 3 10 round mag together and have a 30 round weapon.

But I was thinking about this earlier today. Hollywood and the computer game makers.....that have literally made a killing off of killing. They both need to step to plate at this time. Take some responsibility for events like Sandy Cove and the Batman movie attack.

Holmes was not going into a theatre that was showing "Gone with the Wind"...ok a bad choice.....that is pretty brutal as well at the end. He was not going into a theatre that was showing "I Dream of Genie"
But he going into a theatre showing "Batman Darkman Raising" ....the movie when the all American hero Batman goes to the dark side.

Hollywood put the movie out....Hollywood choose the name....Hollywood made the script....Hollywood made the scenes of violence and bloodshed....but Hollywood feels that its hands are clean when a someone acts out movie violence? Because clear as Holmes' orange hair...he was acting out the movie violence.
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Jan 18, 2013 7:57 PM CST 47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws
montemonte
montemontemontemonteunknown, New Jersey USA114 Threads 4 Polls 5,631 Posts
galrads: Maybe it could be intentional. It sounds like your local LEO's might know how to safely handle and fire a hand gun which they carry on duty. Here it's a different story. Most of our LEOs care about their pensions and have to be forced to practice to be qualified to carry or they lose their jobs.


I'm sorry Gally, but I don't know how your post fits into my question about the new gun law limiting 10 bullets in a magazine even for law enforcement.

I think I'll give up on this question. I asked Tom his opinion and he didn't respond. And I think I've confused you what I'm trying to find out.

Have a good night my friend. I'm heading for the tv wave hug
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Jan 18, 2013 7:59 PM CST 47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws
TTom50
TTom50TTom50Orlando, Florida USA21 Threads 10 Polls 1,301 Posts
OkieChic: I agree!! It's always nice to have someone intelligent who know's what they're talking about around, instead of babbling...lol


Who me babble? I am normally so tongue tied you can hitch your horse to my togue.....
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Jan 18, 2013 8:01 PM CST 47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws
galrads
galradsgalradsDublin, Ohio USA2,264 Threads 279 Polls 36,283 Posts
montemonte: I'm sorry Gally, but I don't know how your post fits into my question about the new gun law limiting 10 bullets in a magazine even for law enforcement.

I think I'll give up on this question. I asked Tom his opinion and he didn't respond. And I think I've confused you what I'm trying to find out.

Have a good night my friend. I'm heading for the tv


LEO = Law Enforcement Officer

Night.... wave
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Jan 18, 2013 8:03 PM CST 47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws
montemonte
montemontemontemonteunknown, New Jersey USA114 Threads 4 Polls 5,631 Posts
TTom50: What i think is that when the law is drafted in Congress....the Law Enforcement Associations....will have made the Congress aware of the 10 round magazine limit them as well. The gloc holds.....17 I think.

So Congress will write a law enforcement exclusion' to the bill. Allowing any weapon issued to law enfrocement to have more than 10 rounds.

But this 10 round mag to me it weakest of all the regs being proposed by the administration. Everyone and anyone saw Platoon, knows that you can tape 3 10 round mag together and have a 30 round weapon.

But I was thinking about this earlier today. Hollywood and the computer game makers.....that have literally made a killing off of killing. They both need to step to plate at this time. Take some responsibility for events like Sandy Cove and the Batman movie attack.

Holmes was not going into a theatre that was showing "Gone with the Wind"...ok a bad choice.....that is pretty brutal as well at the end. He was not going into a theatre that was showing "I Dream of Genie"
But he going into a theatre showing "Batman Darkman Raising" ....the movie when the all American hero Batman goes to the dark side.

Hollywood put the movie out....Hollywood choose the name....Hollywood made the script....Hollywood made the scenes of violence and bloodshed....but Hollywood feels that its hands are clean when a someone acts out movie violence? Because clear as Holmes' orange hair...he was acting out the movie violence.



Thanks for your response on the magazine question Tom.

I am 100% in agreement with you on hollywood making violent movies. There is big money in this type of movie. Schwarneger, Stallone and Cruise have new movies of violence. The Quenten Tarentino movie is exceptionally violent.

In addition, the video games that young boys watch is teaching them that there is excitement in guns. They grow up with that in the back of their mind and when school is boring or they are bullied, what's the first thing that comes to their mind.....get a gun.
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Jan 18, 2013 8:13 PM CST 47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws
OkieChic
OkieChicOkieChicOklahoma City, Oklahoma USA11 Threads 4 Polls 649 Posts
TTom50: Who me babble? I am normally so tongue tied you can hitch your horse to my togue.....


NO not you!! You were the intelligent one I was refering too :)

cheers
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Jan 18, 2013 8:15 PM CST 47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws
TTom50
TTom50TTom50Orlando, Florida USA21 Threads 10 Polls 1,301 Posts
HealthyLiving: In lieu of the discussion of whether or not the United States is under a Tyranical Government, let us investigate by viewing the Declaration of Independence posted above in 2 parts.

Tyranical charges are described therein so... do we see any of the same behaviors happening today? Is our President acting accordingly?

Take a good look and lets talk about it.

HL


Presidents have been proposing and endorsing Congressional laws passage since the first administration. In fact the reason that the VP leads the Senate as Pro Tem is that the writers of the Constitution wanted the executive office to be that close to the law writing in the land.

So Obama is using the bully pulpit on the gun issue! That is not in the Constitution, but every President with per haps the exception of Washington, has used the bully pulpit. On some major issue or event of his term.

Can you honestly say if Romney had won....and then Sandy Cove happened.....he would not be pressing for gun control? Politician are pretty practical people....I think Romney would have suggested the same assault weapon ban. Heck it was a Bush that did it in the first place.

Look I don't mind if 312,000,000 Americans that have the mental skills and the will defend to themselves own weapons. That is thier Constitutional right. But if there is a way to keep guns from the hands of guy like Loughner, Lanza and Holmes....society is better off.

We have a obligation to the innocent of society that cannot defend themselves. If that means putting more armed security in schools, I am for that. If it means assault rifle ban, then I am for that. If it means doing both, which I think is the best course to take....then I am for doing that.
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Jan 18, 2013 8:26 PM CST 47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws
joyaepace
joyaepacejoyaepaceGalway, Ireland11 Threads 2 Polls 958 Posts
galrads: What does that say about your country's value system? You guard money with arms but not people, which are more important.


How do you guard people with guns? Any shooting on the streets has a potential of killing somebody innocent by error. As I posted before, it would make sense to arm police with something that incapacitates the perpetrator rather than kills. Shoot some paralyzing stuff at them and arrest. The real firearms are crazy thing to carry around in civilian areas. It is not a war time now!
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Jan 18, 2013 8:28 PM CST 47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws
2intrigued
2intrigued2intriguedMississauga, Ontario Canada11 Threads 18,576 Posts
joyaepace: How do you guard people with guns? Any shooting on the streets has a potential of killing somebody innocent by error. As I posted before, it would make sense to arm police with something that incapacitates the perpetrator rather than kills. Shoot some paralyzing stuff at them and arrest. The real firearms are crazy thing to carry around in civilian areas. It is not a war time now!


thumbs up thumbs up
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Jan 18, 2013 8:31 PM CST 47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws
TTom50
TTom50TTom50Orlando, Florida USA21 Threads 10 Polls 1,301 Posts
montemonte: Thanks for your response on the magazine question Tom.

I am 100% in agreement with you on hollywood making violent movies. There is big money in this type of movie. Schwarneger, Stallone and Cruise have new movies of violence. The Quenten Tarentino movie is exceptionally violent.

In addition, the video games that young boys watch is teaching them that there is excitement in guns. They grow up with that in the back of their mind and when school is boring or they are bullied, what's the first thing that comes to their mind.....get a gun.


I have often gone to the local computer lab at the library. At the end of the school day.....groups of high school boys come into the lab and take computer. They all play 'warcrafter'.

The problem is they get so focused into playing the game. Military fire arm training is so much different that how these boys are being trained on "war crafter". They go into thier own little world. There is no adult supervision. Military weapons training is just the opposite.

You have a adult supervisor, actually many trainers watching the firing line. But more importantly, the solider has been given a number of warnings on how to use the weapon and range. Safety is stressed. Here in the computer labs, they get none of that.

Most of them get the '1000 yard stare' in a hour of game play. They cannot even close and blink their eyes. That is a serious mental disorder, we were taught to look for in the military when training with weapons.

You read the crime reports on Holmes, Loughner and Lanza....they say they were like auto men....no eye blinking....just the stare. No remorse or no compassion. They have dehumanized the victims. We know all three played computer games for hours.....
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Jan 18, 2013 8:32 PM CST 47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws
joyaepace
joyaepacejoyaepaceGalway, Ireland11 Threads 2 Polls 958 Posts
OkieChic: wow, I would hate to think that I was that scared of a gun....sounds like a lot of brainwashing going on here...just think, they wouldn't have to use it unless some numbskull acted a fool, and I bet if they're carrying it, they know how to use it and won't act like Barney Fife LOL (oh and if you don't know who that is, google it)


What brainwashing? I don't think it would be possible. You have your love for guns in your blood and I am not going to love them so it is just a discussion where nobody is going to change their minds.
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Jan 18, 2013 8:34 PM CST 47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws
joyaepace
joyaepacejoyaepaceGalway, Ireland11 Threads 2 Polls 958 Posts
TTom50: I have often gone to the local computer lab at the library. At the end of the school day.....groups of high school boys come into the lab and take computer. They all play 'warcrafter'.

The problem is they get so focused into playing the game. Military fire arm training is so much different that how these boys are being trained on "war crafter". They go into thier own little world. There is no adult supervision. Military weapons training is just the opposite.

You have a adult supervisor, actually many trainers watching the firing line. But more importantly, the solider has been given a number of warnings on how to use the weapon and range. Safety is stressed. Here in the computer labs, they get none of that.

Most of them get the '1000 yard stare' in a hour of game play. They cannot even close and blink their eyes. That is a serious mental disorder, we were taught to look for in the military when training with weapons.

You read the crime reports on Holmes, Loughner and Lanza....they say they were like auto men....no eye blinking....just the stare. No remorse or no compassion. They have dehumanized the victims. We know all three played computer games for hours.....
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Jan 18, 2013 8:34 PM CST 47 States Revolt Against Obama Gun Laws
OkieChic
OkieChicOkieChicOklahoma City, Oklahoma USA11 Threads 4 Polls 649 Posts
joyaepace: What brainwashing? I don't think it would be possible. You have your love for guns in your blood and I am not going to love them so it is just a discussion where nobody is going to change their minds.


we finally agree on something.... we will never agree on this subject....maybe on another topic somewhere down the road, we might see eye to eye :)
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