The Atheist Self-refuting Propositions (77)
I know this is a retread, but we had some fun with it before. Lets just go with it and see what happens.
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Who was it that had the fun last time?
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MikeHD: There are many we could list here, but these are some of my favorite Self-refuting Propositions:
1. Only empirically verifiable or falsifiable statements have any meaning.
Of course this statement itself is incapable of verification.
2. THERE ARE NO ABSOLUTES!
Of course this statement is itself an absolute.
3. Everything is relative.
But isn't this statement meant to be taken as an absolute?
4. There is no truth.
Except of course for the truth just given.
5. We can't know anything with certainty.
Yet we are supposed to know this statement with certainty
6. A person who believes is the result of irrational forces.
Then this statement itself is the result of irrational forces.
7. What you believe is determined by psychological, environmental, chemical, or class conditioning.
Then this belief is also the result of such conditioning as well, and is equally worthless.
8. No one can know anything about God, for He is unknowable.
It is interesting that this statement actually requires a great deal of knowledge about God.
1. Only empirically verifiable or falsifiable statements have any meaning.
Of course this statement itself is incapable of verification.
2. THERE ARE NO ABSOLUTES!
Of course this statement is itself an absolute.
3. Everything is relative.
But isn't this statement meant to be taken as an absolute?
4. There is no truth.
Except of course for the truth just given.
5. We can't know anything with certainty.
Yet we are supposed to know this statement with certainty
6. A person who believes is the result of irrational forces.
Then this statement itself is the result of irrational forces.
7. What you believe is determined by psychological, environmental, chemical, or class conditioning.
Then this belief is also the result of such conditioning as well, and is equally worthless.
8. No one can know anything about God, for He is unknowable.
It is interesting that this statement actually requires a great deal of knowledge about God.
Here is another one- there is no god because there is no god. It is a human condition same as vampires, werewolf’s bigfoot, Santa, Easter bunny..etc.
Talking bush, talking donkey, talking snakes is something children’s cartoons are made off.
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MikeHD: I know this is a retread, but we had some fun with it before. Lets just go with it and see what happens.
and you fell on your Nose with it last time,because your propositions are as mushy as before!But you accurately,once again,described Religion!
Remember,you are not Wandering Gnome,he at least was able to make an Argument!
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"I am a hipster because I don't conform".... But being a hipster is conforming. ... same thing 
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"When we take the gods as facts, rather than metaphors, then we get lost in debating the merits of the facts rather than apprehending their meaning. The fundamentalist ties his or her beliefs to the facts and narrows the spiritual vitality by fighting rear-guard actions against disputation. On the other hand, the atheist disputes the evidence, gets confused by the institutional forms to which he or she has been exposed, and misses the possible deepening which occurs whenever one confronts the meaning of divinity."
James Hollis
James Hollis
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bodleing: "When we take the gods as facts, rather than metaphors, then we get lost in debating the merits of the facts rather than apprehending their meaning. The fundamentalist ties his or her beliefs to the facts and narrows the spiritual vitality by fighting rear-guard actions against disputation. On the other hand, the atheist disputes the evidence, gets confused by the institutional forms to which he or she has been exposed, and misses the possible deepening which occurs whenever one confronts the meaning of divinity."
James Hollis
James Hollis
Now this was a very interesting response. James could you please elaborate on this as it seems to be a little bit beyond me at the moment.
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AgentAjax: Here is another one- there is no god because there is no god. It is a human condition same as vampires, werewolf’s bigfoot, Santa, Easter bunny..etc.
Talking bush, talking donkey, talking snakes is something children’s cartoons are made off.
Talking bush, talking donkey, talking snakes is something children’s cartoons are made off.
Were you trying to make an intelligent point here, or were you resorting to the usual inarticulate nonsense people use when they have no point? If so, you will probably resort to basic name calling as the next stage of your defense.
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Conrad73: and you fell on your Nose with it last time,because your propositions are as mushy as before!
But you accurately,once again,described Religion!
Remember,you are not Wandering Gnome,he at least was able to make an Argument!
But you accurately,once again,described Religion!
Remember,you are not Wandering Gnome,he at least was able to make an Argument!
Oh Conrad, my old foe. Just because I handed you your butt last time doesn't mean you have to try and rewrite history.
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Now, does anyone have an any kind of smart, bright, or clever post for my thread?
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MikeHD: Oh Conrad, my old foe. Just because I handed you your butt last time doesn't mean you have to try and rewrite history.
well,Mike,People ain't going to take kindly to your dogmatizing. Still trying to prove the Book with it self,I suppose?
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MikeHD: Now this was a very interesting response. James could you please elaborate on this as it seems to be a little bit beyond me at the moment.
Ok Mike, I'll give you the rest of the quote, see if it becomes any clearer...
"When institutions prevail over private experience, the oppression will manifest as depression and reification, precursors to the horrors of pogroms and crusades. This is the meaning behind the critiques of Kierkegaard and Nietzsche in the nineteenth century and the so-called “death of God” theologians in the twentieth. Each had observed that the imago Dei ossified and ceased to move its communicants to awe. In time, the momentum and self-interest of the institution can even serve to prevent people from primal, religious encounter which could actually threaten its stability and the social vision it guards.
As Jung said, the gods had become diseases. The names they once rendered luminous had become husks. As I have previously noted, the oldest of religious sins is to worship the husk after the energy has departed. It is called idolatry, and we have raised up many false gods in our time. Consider our contemporary Pantheon: plenipotentiary Progress, massive Materialism; heroic Health; normative Narcissism, nasty Nationalism; sophistic Scientism, and many others. None saves, none connects, none abides, and we all damn well know it."
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bodleing: "When we take the gods as facts, rather than metaphors, then we get lost in debating the merits of the facts rather than apprehending their meaning. The fundamentalist ties his or her beliefs to the facts and narrows the spiritual vitality by fighting rear-guard actions against disputation. On the other hand, the atheist disputes the evidence, gets confused by the institutional forms to which he or she has been exposed, and misses the possible deepening which occurs whenever one confronts the meaning of divinity."
James Hollis
James Hollis
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bodleing: Ok Mike, I'll give you the rest of the quote, see if it becomes any clearer...
"When institutions prevail over private experience, the oppression will manifest as depression and reification, precursors to the horrors of pogroms and crusades. This is the meaning behind the critiques of Kierkegaard and Nietzsche in the nineteenth century and the so-called “death of God” theologians in the twentieth. Each had observed that the imago Dei ossified and ceased to move its communicants to awe. In time, the momentum and self-interest of the institution can even serve to prevent people from primal, religious encounter which could actually threaten its stability and the social vision it guards.
As Jung said, the gods had become diseases. The names they once rendered luminous had become husks. As I have previously noted, the oldest of religious sins is to worship the husk after the energy has departed. It is called idolatry, and we have raised up many false gods in our time. Consider our contemporary Pantheon: plenipotentiary Progress, massive Materialism; heroic Health; normative Narcissism, nasty Nationalism; sophistic Scientism, and many others. None saves, none connects, none abides, and we all damn well know it."
bbbbut this isn't Biblical at all!"When institutions prevail over private experience, the oppression will manifest as depression and reification, precursors to the horrors of pogroms and crusades. This is the meaning behind the critiques of Kierkegaard and Nietzsche in the nineteenth century and the so-called “death of God” theologians in the twentieth. Each had observed that the imago Dei ossified and ceased to move its communicants to awe. In time, the momentum and self-interest of the institution can even serve to prevent people from primal, religious encounter which could actually threaten its stability and the social vision it guards.
As Jung said, the gods had become diseases. The names they once rendered luminous had become husks. As I have previously noted, the oldest of religious sins is to worship the husk after the energy has departed. It is called idolatry, and we have raised up many false gods in our time. Consider our contemporary Pantheon: plenipotentiary Progress, massive Materialism; heroic Health; normative Narcissism, nasty Nationalism; sophistic Scientism, and many others. None saves, none connects, none abides, and we all damn well know it."
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MikeHD: Now, does anyone have an any kind of smart, bright, or clever post for my thread?
Do you truly believe that being condescending, self righteous, and full of ego, will open people to your views?
Good heavens, THINK before you speak.
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Conrad73: bbbbut this isn't Biblical at all!
Ermmm, I tend to disagree with you to some extenet Con.
There was a man who lived over 2000 years ago that tried to get parts of this idea across, and was killed for it.
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Kaybee50: Ermmm, I tend to disagree with you to some extenet Con.
There was a man who lived over 2000 years ago that tried to get parts of this idea across, and was killed for it.
I doubt Doctor Jung was living by the Book or the Precepts of the Nazarene,at least not what is being commonly taught!There was a man who lived over 2000 years ago that tried to get parts of this idea across, and was killed for it.
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Conrad73: I doubt Doctor Jung was living by the Book or the Precepts of the Nazarene,at least not what is being commonly taught!
I'm not speaking of Herr Doktor Jung. Das wissen Sie wohl.
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Ah but Conrad, the book is its best defense and more. For all anyone can mount are feeble attempts to challenge what the book itself says. The message is beyond dispute. People refuse to argue on the merits of what the book says simply because it scares them to death. They know all than can do is attack it by misquoting it, taking small passages out of context, or by completely ignoring the overall theme the crimson thread that runs through all of scripture. Of course without faith, there is no way you will ever understand what it says. Jesus said this was done on purpose (Luke 8:10 & Isaiah 6:9) so that only those who really want to find God... will find Him. All others will be without excuse.
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Created: Aug 2013
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1. Only empirically verifiable or falsifiable statements have any meaning.
Of course this statement itself is incapable of verification.
2. THERE ARE NO ABSOLUTES!
Of course this statement is itself an absolute.
3. Everything is relative.
But isn't this statement meant to be taken as an absolute?
4. There is no truth.
Except of course for the truth just given.
5. We can't know anything with certainty.
Yet we are supposed to know this statement with certainty
6. A person who believes is the result of irrational forces.
Then this statement itself is the result of irrational forces.
7. What you believe is determined by psychological, environmental, chemical, or class conditioning.
Then this belief is also the result of such conditioning as well, and is equally worthless.
8. No one can know anything about God, for He is unknowable.
It is interesting that this statement actually requires a great deal of knowledge about God.