rainbowdream2017Melbourne, Victoria Australia2,486 posts
I see it like this under the current climate, that anything you say. Can be twisted, manipulated and used against you.
That is just my thoughts on people that have so much hatered for others. Especially in the virtual world. They forget that they leave a digital footprint.
I very much doubt these people would express their views in such a way if they were held accountable.[/quote]
Some limits on expression were contemplated by the framers and have been defined by the Supreme Court of the United States. Starting in the 1940s U.S states began passing hate speech laws. In Beauharnais v. Illinois the Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the state of Illinois's hate speech laws. Illinois's laws punished expression that was offensive to racial ethnic and religious groups. After Beauharnais v. Illinois, the Supreme Court developed a free speech jurisprudence that loosened most aspects of the free speech doctrine. In 1942, Justice Frank Murphy summarized the case law: "There are certain well-defined and limited classes of speech, the prevention and punishment of which have never been thought to raise a Constitutional problem. These include the lewd and obscene, the profane, the libelous and the insulting or 'fighting' words – those which by their very utterances inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace."
rizlared: So rainbowdream, you have shown that you can use google images, very impressive, shame you still fail to understand that using someone who supports communism in its total state, is not exactly a good example!
For your education:- Communism is a political system greatly influenced by socialism but differs in the way the people are controlled, whereas socialism is primarily an economic system that exists in various forms under a wide range of political/social systems and existed eons before communism came into the political arena. In no way would a socialist aspire to become a communist, any more than a Conservative would aspire to become a fascist.
Hope this helps.
Mussolini predicted a century of the right and I think he was proved right by the 1980s. A socialist isn't necessarily a communist but social democracy which 50 years ago was to the right of both communism and socialism is today's communism. The goal posts have shifted entirely, yesterday's centre is today's far left.
ChesneyChrist: Mussolini predicted a century of the right and I think he was proved right by the 1980s. A socialist isn't necessarily a communist but social democracy which 50 years ago was to the right of both communism and socialism is today's communism. The goal posts have shifted entirely, yesterday's centre is today's far left.
In the middle of the 1930s when capitalism collapsed and was extremely unpopular the fascists adopted some policies from social democrats simply as a matter of survival, and we've come so far to the right now that today's fascists call the old fascists left-wing based on those policies. Nobody in the 1930s did very will with the argument of pure greed, not even the fascists, today's fascists combine the spirit of fascism with the greed of today.
At the same time as greed has arisen cultural liberalism, the freedom to be gay or whatever as a branch of individualism but even now that's regarded to be left-wing. Most socialists support gay rights but gay rights ar not socialism.Capitalism's liberating cultural influence - the freedom of individuals and minorities - has now become a target of the right and I used to believe the rightward shift in economics was separate from the cultural drift. But I think Trump and Brexit prove you cannot suspend one from the other indefinitely, Reagan and Thatcher laid the foundations for a backward future and a primitive mob rising to burn the world down.
Funny you should quote this, was it a pu**y or balls move? One can never tell with an extremist.
To be so insignificant, that you feel the need to constantly post the same putrid stance.
The problem as I see it, is that for extremists and those who have a specific agenda, they believe Freedom of Speech is for them only, anyone who dares to disagree, or even half agree but points out weaknesses in an argument are immediately accused of gagging Freedom of Speech.
These same people then sink down to name calling and false accusations, because they know their own opinion is indeed a treacherous and hate filled one, but too ashamed to admit it.
They only see black and white, whereas those with a better grasp of the situation fully understand there is no black and white, only a myriad of shades of grey.
"To win any argument, you need to understand both sides" A certain Professor from a certain UK University.
rizlared: I agree which is why I am no longer posting in particular threads and started one to see if there is a solution.
The solution is not feeding them... You can't choose who's gonna speak and who will be agreeing with you... People are different, if you don't like their views don't forget they don't like yours and you are both equally right to do so... Who decides what's wrong and what's right?!
pKrema: The solution is not feeding them... You can't choose who's gonna speak and who will be agreeing with you... People are different, if you don't like their views don't forget they don't like yours and you are both equally right to do so... Who decides what's wrong and what's right?!
Maybe, but going back to the original topic, using the internet is, in many ways, a privilege, and as such, it needs basic social skills. My idea is that those who have yet to learn those skills are restricted. Nothing to do with capping freedom of speech really. For example, I am a member of a club, to make use of the club’s facilities etc. I had to show that I was responsible and conscientious and would be an asset to the club. What I am suggesting is that after all the problems that have occurred specifically through internet web sites, maybe the time has come to make the privilege of using the internet akin to a formal membership, a membership that can be revoked if required.
Of course, this then brings about a whole new set of problems, namely, who decides the rules and who decides who has broken those rules. As my Canadian friend said, getting a driving license does not mean all those holding one can drive, but it certainly has reduced the number of deaths.
Rachie14Stafford, Staffordshire, England UK2,330 posts
rizlared: Maybe, but going back to the original topic, using the internet is, in many ways, a privilege, and as such, it needs basic social skills. My idea is that those who have yet to learn those skills are restricted. Nothing to do with capping freedom of speech really. For example, I am a member of a club, to make use of the club’s facilities etc. I had to show that I was responsible and conscientious and would be an asset to the club. What I am suggesting is that after all the problems that have occurred specifically through internet web sites, maybe the time has come to make the privilege of using the internet akin to a formal membership, a membership that can be revoked if required.
Of course, this then brings about a whole new set of problems, namely, who decides the rules and who decides who has broken those rules. As my Canadian friend said, getting a driving license does not mean all those holding one can drive, but it certainly has reduced the number of deaths.
Question for you Riz,
Is one person's right to freedom of speech exclude another's right to their freedom?
Is one person's right to freedom of speech exclude another's right to their freedom?
Good question
I would surmise that everyone has equal access to freedom of speech, as defined by their specific location. However, when that freedom, can cause harm to another individual, that crosses a line in my opinion. So the instigator needs to have some form of restriction. I doubt very much that those who died in awful warfare to preserve and continue Freedom in the west, would be happy at the way Freedom of Speech is being abused by so many. I guess it all comes down to education, those who are educated rarely if ever, misuse Freedom of speech, unless for an ulterior motive.
Rachie14Stafford, Staffordshire, England UK2,330 posts
Limun: which is?, in your opinion...
Why you would feel the need to go to such extent to go against a licence which promotes that the person has a healthy knowledge of the environment that they are in.
Rachie14: Why you would feel the need to go to such extent to go against a licence which promotes that the person has a healthy knowledge of the environment that they are in.
In my opinion, everyone should have the right to be stupid,...publically ..and present it to the whole world ~ Thank you Internnet . I mean, you dont have to do a serious research ,just pay attention to headlines in the newspapers or TV news ,they demonize entire nations,family values ..often with subliminal messages ,often directly...our perception has changed ,killed the human in us,our empathy ...do we really need restrictions?Nahhh ,we`re just the product of the system
Rachie14Stafford, Staffordshire, England UK2,330 posts
Limun: In my opinion, everyone should have the right to be stupid,...publically ..and present it to the whole world ~ Thank you Internnet . I mean, you dont have to do a serious research ,just pay attention to headlines in the newspapers or TV news ,they demonize entire nations,family values ..often with subliminal messages ,often directly...our perception has changed ,killed the human in us,our empathy ...do we really need restrictions?Nahhh ,we`re just the product of the system
I don't watch the news. I read it, you can also see where people are being manipulated to think one way. Like the theory people are sending sublime messages through it. You are all creating your own wars based on what you are been told to think.
I still have empathy, compassion, but have you actually looked at people who are posting hateful speeches and comments. How they talk of people. How they choose to believe the mass propganda, not the reality and it's based on negatives. Then look at the anger and hate people choose to display by it. The Anarchy and unrest that is caused. Because you're being told to think a certain way about a gender, a religion or an event.
Rachie14Stafford, Staffordshire, England UK2,330 posts
rizlared: Good question
I would surmise that everyone has equal access to freedom of speech, as defined by their specific location. However, when that freedom, can cause harm to another individual, that crosses a line in my opinion. So the instigator needs to have some form of restriction. I doubt very much that those who died in awful warfare to preserve and continue Freedom in the west, would be happy at the way Freedom of Speech is being abused by so many. I guess it all comes down to education, those who are educated rarely if ever, misuse Freedom of speech, unless for an ulterior motive.
I wonder how you can have respect for those that have fought for your freedom, then represent yourself in such a disrespectul way in how you think? to me that isn't right.
Here is a negative of no restriction, especially in the younger generation is this the NWO people are looking for?
Rachie14: I don't watch the news. I read it, you can also see where people are being manipulated to think one way. Like the theory people are sending sublime messages through it. You are all creating your own wars based on what you are been told to think.
I still have empathy, compassion, but have you actually looked at people who are posting hateful speeches and comments. How they talk of people. How they choose to believe the mass propganda, not the reality and it's based on negatives. Then look at the anger and hate people choose to display by it. The Anarchy and unrest that is caused. Because you're being told to think a certain way about a gender, a religion or an event.
you`re my kind of people
all true what you said ,yet putting restrictions??? license??? i mean it would mean that someone is in charge ,what are his or their intentions ? who does he,they ,get their orders from ...lots of questions... and of cause ,lots of people see themself as ``rebels`` and will hack the system ...
Back in the 90`s, my country was under sanctions ,economical,political etc ...based on our location we didn't have a chance to present our opinions due to the Machinery that does the same,now to other countries ... Im still banned from several sites based on my location, On CS, certain countries are also not welcome ...and its not because of scammers ... yet people use VPN ,change their IP ,very often just o have a chance to voice their opinion, share information from their side of the fence ,not influenced by the mainstream media's
rizlared: Looking at some of the recent threads, it crossed my mind that maybe time has come to not exactly censure the internet, I am against that. But maybe users should be required to pass a test to ensure they fully understand both the good and bad use of this medium. A provisional license could be issued that allows access to most sites, but restricts access to sites where there isa cross section of public users, such as facebook, twitter, CS etc. Basically any form of social media where real interaction can take place. To gain a full license the user needs to demonstrate an ability not to take everything at face value, they understand that people have different opinions, they understand that because someone disagrees on one point, it does not mean they automatically support the opposite argument. Maybe there could be different levels of license, based on activity and tolerance? The license holder would be downgraded if shown to spread hatred, lies or blatant false news.
Just wondering what other would think of such a policy.
Riz a much better solution would be to start your own website where you can be the censor. If anyone says anything you don't like you can disappear it. The owners do that here already.
Rachie14Stafford, Staffordshire, England UK2,330 posts
Limun: you`re my kind of people
all true what you said ,yet putting restrictions??? license??? i mean it would mean that someone is in charge ,what are his or their intentions ? who does he,they ,get their orders from ...lots of questions... and of cause ,lots of people see themself as ``rebels`` and will hack the system ...
Back in the 90`s, my country was under sanctions ,economical,political etc ...based on our location we didn't have a chance to present our opinions due to the Machinery that does the same,now to other countries ... Im still banned from several sites based on my location, On CS, certain countries are also not welcome ...and its not because of scammers ... yet people use VPN ,change their IP ,very often just o have a chance to voice their opinion, share information from their side of the fence ,not influenced by the mainstream media's
The thing is nobody really has a problem with others disagreeing with them. It's how they disagree with someone. Especially where there is ill intention, which often is what comes with hate speeches. Hate speeches are a form of suppression if you think about it and they're not really needed. Can people not make a point of their views without making it so another person can't? Yeah and I'm 44 and I rebel sometimes but doesn't mean I have to do it the wrong way, when I do I am doing to make a point.
I understand your reasoning based on stereotyping a country, I personally don't agree with that, or restricting their ability to voice an opinion. It is always about how you do it with me and what your intent is. Because it is sadly being used for the wrong intent.
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