War against Christian ( Archived) (471)

Jan 31, 2009 6:41 PM CST War against Christian
Galactic_bodhi
Galactic_bodhiGalactic_bodhiAkron, Ohio USA609 Threads 1 Polls 9,196 Posts
trish123: where did you get that one from - we dont


Atheism is a lack-of-belief system, at least, that's always what I thought. laugh

And as far as evolution being considered wrong, that's just not true. Currently the debate is mechanistic, is it Lamarckian or Darwinian in its mechanistics? There is a certain amount of new evidence that shows acquired characteristics might actually be genetically transferable, which pushes the debate into causation but doesn't negate the theory.
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Feb 1, 2009 3:53 AM CST War against Christian
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
Tater: no I was saying that they teach something Christians don't beleive should be taught to their kids, but can't opt out of those type classes, because they are required to graduate.

Oh but evolution is now being looked at as being wrong, from a scientific stand point, so obviously the scientific hypothesises can be wrong.....


Have you got anything to back up that claim Tater? It sounds pretty sweeping and misleading to me - theres quite some difference between opinion and fact. The only people I know of who look at evolution as unproven are those who want to keep people blinded by superstition.

Your comment confuses me for a number of reasons and not least among them is a report in this weeks New Scientist which has dated some material from our moon at almost 4.5 BILLION years old

If you visit that link, why not stay a while and look at some of the back issues - you never know, you may just learn a few things.........
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Feb 3, 2009 6:04 PM CST War against Christian
crotalus_p
crotalus_pcrotalus_pRush, Dublin Ireland43 Threads 6 Polls 2,789 Posts
Tater: atheist consider atheism to be a religion where they want religous rights, but then when it comes to things like this, then they claim it isn't a religion (remember religion is a beleif system)



I have put a cross threw every thing you have either gotten wrong or misunderstood roll eyes
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Feb 3, 2009 7:58 PM CST War against Christian
Tater
TaterTaterspringfield, Illinois USA45 Threads 3 Polls 3,326 Posts
trish123: Have you got anything to back up that claim Tater? It sounds pretty sweeping and misleading to me - theres quite some difference between opinion and fact. The only people I know of who look at evolution as unproven are those who want to keep people blinded by superstition.

Your comment confuses me for a number of reasons and not least among them is a report in this weeks New Scientist which has dated some material from our moon at almost 4.5 BILLION years old

If you visit that link, why not stay a while and look at some of the back issues - you never know, you may just learn a few things.........





here have at it... I have to copy and paste, because I don't know how to put the "blue code thing on here...."



Christians and non-Christians alike often disagree about whether the “Theory of Evolution” is accurate. Those who express doubts about the theory are often labeled “unscientific” or “backwards” by some in the pro-evolution camp. At times, the popular perception of evolution seems to be that it has been proven beyond all doubt and there are no scientific obstacles left for it. In reality, there are quite a few scientific flaws in the theory that provide reasons to be skeptical. Granted, none of these questions necessarily disproves evolution, but they do show how the theory is less than settled.


cont......>>>>>
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Feb 3, 2009 7:59 PM CST War against Christian
Tater
TaterTaterspringfield, Illinois USA45 Threads 3 Polls 3,326 Posts
There are many ways in which evolution can be criticized scientifically, but most of those criticisms are highly specific. There are countless examples of genetic characteristics, ecological systems, evolutionary trees, enzyme properties, and other facts that are very difficult to square with the theory of evolution. Detailed descriptions of these can be highly technical and are beyond the scope of a summary such as this. Generally speaking, it’s accurate to say that science has yet to provide consistent answers to how evolution operates at the molecular, genetic, or even ecological levels in a consistent and supportable way.

Other flaws in the theory of evolution can be separated into three basic areas. First, there is the contradiction between “punctuated equilibrium” and “gradualism.” Second is the problem in projecting “microevolution” into “macroevolution.” Third is the unfortunate way in which the theory has been unscientifically abused for philosophical reasons.

First, there is a contradiction between “punctuated equilibrium” and “gradualism.” There are two basic possibilities for how naturalistic evolution can occur. This flaw in the theory of evolution occurs because these two ideas are mutually exclusive, and yet there is evidence suggestive of both of them. Gradualism implies that organisms experience a relatively steady rate of mutations, resulting in a somewhat “smooth” transition from early forms to later ones. This was the original assumption derived from the theory of evolution. Punctuated equilibrium, on the other hand, implies that mutation rates are heavily influenced by a unique set of coincidences. Therefore, organisms will experience long periods of stability, “punctuated” by short bursts of rapid evolution.
cont.......
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Feb 3, 2009 8:00 PM CST War against Christian
Tater
TaterTaterspringfield, Illinois USA45 Threads 3 Polls 3,326 Posts
Gradualism seems to be contradicted by the fossil record. Organisms appear suddenly and demonstrate little change over long periods. The fossil record has been greatly expanded over the last century, and the more fossils that are found, the more gradualism seems to be disproved. It was this overt refutation of gradualism in the fossil record that prompted the theory of punctuated equilibrium.

The fossil record might seem to support punctuated equilibrium, but again, there are major problems. The basic assumption of punctuated equilibrium is that a very few creatures, all from the same large population, will experience several beneficial mutations, all at the same time. Right away, one can see how improbable this is. Then, those few members separate completely from the main population so that their new genes can be passed to the next generation (another unlikely event). Given the wide diversity of life, this kind of amazing coincidence would have to happen all the time.

While the improbable nature of punctuated equilibrium speaks for itself, scientific studies have also cast doubt on the benefits it would confer. Separating a few members from a larger population results in inbreeding. This results in decreased reproductive ability, harmful genetic abnormalities, and so forth. In essence, the events that should be promoting “survival of the fittest” cripple the organisms instead.

cont...
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Feb 3, 2009 8:01 PM CST War against Christian
Tater
TaterTaterspringfield, Illinois USA45 Threads 3 Polls 3,326 Posts
Despite what some claim, punctuated equilibrium is not a more refined version of gradualism. They have very different assumptions about the mechanisms behind evolution and the way those mechanisms behave. Neither is a satisfactory explanation for how life came to be as diverse and balanced as it is, and yet there are no other reasonable options for how evolution can operate.

The second flaw is the problem of extending “microevolution” into “macroevolution.” Laboratory studies have shown that organisms are capable of adaptation. That is, living things have an ability to shift their biology to better fit their environment. However, those same studies have demonstrated that such changes can only go so far, and those organisms have not fundamentally changed. These small changes are called “micro-evolution.” Microevolution can result in some drastic changes, such as those found in dogs. All dogs are the same species, and one can see how much variation there is. But even the most aggressive breeding has never turned a dog into something else. There is a limit to how large, small, smart, or hairy a dog can become through breeding. Experimentally, there is no reason to suggest that a species can change beyond its own genetic limits and become something else.

Long-term evolution, though, requires “macroevolution”, which refers to those large-scale changes. Microevolution turns a wolf into a Chihuahua or a Great Dane. Macroevolution would turn a fish into a cow or a duck. There is a massive difference in scale and effect between microevolution and macroevolution. This flaw in the theory of evolution is that experimentation does not support the ability of many small changes to transform one species into another.

cont..
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Feb 3, 2009 8:05 PM CST War against Christian
Tater
TaterTaterspringfield, Illinois USA45 Threads 3 Polls 3,326 Posts
Finally, there is the flawed application of evolution. This is not a flaw in the scientific theory, of course, but an error in the way the theory has been abused for non-scientific purposes. There are still many, many fundamental questions about the development of life that evolution has not answered. There are many, many questions about biological life that it cannot answer. And yet, there are those who try to transform the theory from a biological explanation into a metaphysical one. Every time a person claims that the theory of evolution disproves religion, spirituality, or God, they are taking the theory outside of its own limits. Fairly or not, the theory of evolution has been hijacked as an anti-religious mascot by those with an axe to grind against God.

Overall, there are many solidly scientific reasons to question the theory of evolution. These flaws may be resolved by science, or they may eventually kill the theory all together. We don’t know which one will happen, but we do know this: the theory of evolution is far from settled, and rational people can question it scientifically.

this is one... But I could show you many others, I'm just not going to copy and paste all damn day...
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Feb 3, 2009 9:08 PM CST War against Christian
Hammermann
HammermannHammermannAuxvasse, Missouri USA1 Threads 6 Posts
Tater I'll stand with you any day man. Way to go!thumbs up
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Feb 3, 2009 9:12 PM CST War against Christian
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
Tater: Finally, there is the flawed application of evolution. This is not a flaw in the scientific theory, of course, but an error in the way the theory has been abused for non-scientific purposes. There are still many, many fundamental questions about the development of life that evolution has not answered. There are many, many questions about biological life that it cannot answer. And yet, there are those who try to transform the theory from a biological explanation into a metaphysical one. Every time a person claims that the theory of evolution disproves religion, spirituality, or God, they are taking the theory outside of its own limits. Fairly or not, the theory of evolution has been hijacked as an anti-religious mascot by those with an axe to grind against God.

Overall, there are many solidly scientific reasons to question the theory of evolution. These flaws may be resolved by science, or they may eventually kill the theory all together. We don’t know which one will happen, but we do know this: the theory of evolution is far from settled, and rational people can question it scientifically.

this is one... But I could show you many others, I'm just not going to copy and paste all damn day...


You forgot to quote your source Tater - maybe you woud like me to do it for you
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Feb 3, 2009 9:12 PM CST War against Christian
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
Tater: Finally, there is the flawed application of evolution. This is not a flaw in the scientific theory, of course, but an error in the way the theory has been abused for non-scientific purposes. There are still many, many fundamental questions about the development of life that evolution has not answered. There are many, many questions about biological life that it cannot answer. And yet, there are those who try to transform the theory from a biological explanation into a metaphysical one. Every time a person claims that the theory of evolution disproves religion, spirituality, or God, they are taking the theory outside of its own limits. Fairly or not, the theory of evolution has been hijacked as an anti-religious mascot by those with an axe to grind against God.

Overall, there are many solidly scientific reasons to question the theory of evolution. These flaws may be resolved by science, or they may eventually kill the theory all together. We don’t know which one will happen, but we do know this: the theory of evolution is far from settled, and rational people can question it scientifically.

this is one... But I could show you many others, I'm just not going to copy and paste all damn day...


You forgot to quote your source Tater - maybe you woud like me to do it for you
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Feb 3, 2009 9:14 PM CST War against Christian
SmokinTina
SmokinTinaSmokinTinasun city, Arizona USA6 Posts
THERE IS A SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE FOR A REASON!!!!! Why do people have to try to force their beliefs on others. If you want to pray at school, do it in between classes!
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Feb 3, 2009 9:21 PM CST War against Christian
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
Tater: Finally, there is the flawed application of evolution. This is not a flaw in the scientific theory, of course, but an error in the way the theory has been abused for non-scientific purposes. There are still many, many fundamental questions about the development of life that evolution has not answered. There are many, many questions about biological life that it cannot answer. And yet, there are those who try to transform the theory from a biological explanation into a metaphysical one. Every time a person claims that the theory of evolution disproves religion, spirituality, or God, they are taking the theory outside of its own limits. Fairly or not, the theory of evolution has been hijacked as an anti-religious mascot by those with an axe to grind against God.

Overall, there are many solidly scientific reasons to question the theory of evolution. These flaws may be resolved by science, or they may eventually kill the theory all together. We don’t know which one will happen, but we do know this: the theory of evolution is far from settled, and rational people can question it scientifically.

this is one... But I could show you many others, I'm just not going to copy and paste all damn day...


I traced your apologetics source sweetie - now do me a favour - answer the question I asked dunno
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Feb 3, 2009 9:27 PM CST War against Christian
Tater
TaterTaterspringfield, Illinois USA45 Threads 3 Polls 3,326 Posts
trish123: I traced your apologetics source sweetie - now do me a favour - answer the question I asked



It is from GOT questions.org, sorry for not putting it on there, like I said I don't know how to post the link on here
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Feb 3, 2009 9:38 PM CST War against Christian
Tater
TaterTaterspringfield, Illinois USA45 Threads 3 Polls 3,326 Posts
trish123: I traced your apologetics source sweetie - now do me a favour - answer the question I asked


I did anwser your question, and now you anwser one of mine. PROVE THE BIBLE wrong, not assumptions but proof..
OH and beings that there are so many things happening in the world, that the BIBLE say is/was going to happen, then I beleive, the Bible to have just as much proof to be considered a scientific theory...Because it does match up with what the future changes it predicted...tongue

I see that you still want to argue, and that is why you kept bumping your other posts in the other thread... but ofcourse you say I'm not smart enough for you to debate with...laugh you sure seem to be following my posts Don't you???laugh


you have a very miserable home life don't you... are you at least taking meds. to cure your self-esteem issues..comfort
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Feb 3, 2009 9:47 PM CST War against Christian
Galactic_bodhi
Galactic_bodhiGalactic_bodhiAkron, Ohio USA609 Threads 1 Polls 9,196 Posts
Tater: I did anwser your question, and now you anwser one of mine. PROVE THE BIBLE wrong, not assumptions but proof..
OH and beings that there are so many things happening in the world, that the BIBLE say is/was going to happen, then I beleive, the Bible to have just as much proof to be considered a scientific theory...Because it does match up with what the future changes it predicted...

I see that you still want to argue, and that is why you kept bumping your other posts in the other thread... but ofcourse you say I'm not smart enough for you to debate with... you sure seem to be following my posts Don't you??? you have a very miserable home life don't you... are you at least taking meds. to cure your self-esteem issues..


You seriously need to find a job dude. doh
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Feb 4, 2009 1:39 AM CST War against Christian
kidatheart
kidatheartkidatheartFruitvale, British Columbia Canada30 Threads 16,544 Posts
Tater: I did anwser your question, and now you anwser one of mine. PROVE THE BIBLE wrong, not assumptions but proof..
OH and beings that there are so many things happening in the world, that the BIBLE say is/was going to happen, then I beleive, the Bible to have just as much proof to be considered a scientific theory...Because it does match up with what the future changes it predicted...

I see that you still want to argue, and that is why you kept bumping your other posts in the other thread... but ofcourse you say I'm not smart enough for you to debate with... you sure seem to be following my posts Don't you??? you have a very miserable home life don't you... are you at least taking meds. to cure your self-esteem issues..



Maybe you should read her post history to see how much research, time and effort she's put into this topic. You'll find your answers in there.

Were you born an a**hole, or did it take you 29 years of practice to become so proficeint?dunno
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Feb 4, 2009 1:44 AM CST War against Christian
pretzelman
pretzelmanpretzelmanLas Vegas, Nevada USA43 Threads 1 Polls 2,956 Posts
the thread title is misleading...there is no war against Christians, in America. The is a rebellion against pushing Christian beliefs down the throats of all Americans.


The posting of the commandments doesn't belong in PUBLIC schools, nor does prayer. I am a born again Christian, a graduate of Baptist Bible School and a former assoc. pastor. But I stand behind my beliefs that church and state must remain separate lest we fall into a theocracy
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Feb 4, 2009 2:00 AM CST War against Christian
RillyNiceGuy
RillyNiceGuyRillyNiceGuySoutheast, Arkansas USA839 Threads 13,003 Posts
First: Christians, those of the truth or of the false teachings need to understand that no one come to Christ unless God draws them. To fight to convince does God a disservice and to answer an issue is a good attempt to help someone who may be drawn. Buth once it is clear they are not drawn....step away and leave them be for the sake of peace and not putting God to an open shame be your conflict.

Second: Manyu who call themselves Christian and In the name of God has done great evil....WITHOUT THE CONSENT OR POWER OF GOD! I can kill someone in the name of a person or group....but that does not mean they had anything to do with in. Most things done in the name of God are man's doings and God never knew them. Blame men for man's twisting of God's ways....but not God because HIS WAYS ARE NOT BEING DONE!

Third: Due to lack of understanding by the lay and Christians (true or false taught) most do not understand that there is not a conflict between evolution and creation or science and God. There is only lack of understanding from unsound thinking. it is all before you to see if you will see soundly without foolishness from both sides.

Lastly: Christians!!! Do not try to force a horse to drink who has no thirst......give water to those which thirst with clear waters. You will stay busy and please God.

Peace!
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Feb 4, 2009 2:27 AM CST War against Christian
RillyNiceGuy
RillyNiceGuyRillyNiceGuySoutheast, Arkansas USA839 Threads 13,003 Posts
Unsound thinking brings confusion....if sound....then all things make sense in the Bible. Prove all things and they are provable to the proper good.


Many will say that since the Ark rose above the mountains that the air was to thin and cold for them to live. (UNsound) The atmosphere rose as the water rose....they were still at sea level. (sound)

If one finds error....they have more to learn yet to have peace and the truth. The seeds of the apple tree can not produce the grapes. Many think they plant apple seeds and have confusion when grapes appear and blame God!
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