(POLL) Big 3 Bailout or Not? And why? (58)
Is this not a "slap" in the face to other business's that better manage their business, or to ones that can't get a bailout, and have to bankrupt?
My opinion: Restructure the business, and cut cost(wages of $70hr), and let the employees see that they can live on less. We have/had a local steel mill here local, and they voted their self right out of a job...now it is gone! Their fault, always wanting more and more, and more...till they strike their way out. Why not start cutting wages, so end products cost less, and get back into the competitive market.
These are just my opinions only...what do you think?
My opinion: Restructure the business, and cut cost(wages of $70hr), and let the employees see that they can live on less. We have/had a local steel mill here local, and they voted their self right out of a job...now it is gone! Their fault, always wanting more and more, and more...till they strike their way out. Why not start cutting wages, so end products cost less, and get back into the competitive market.
These are just my opinions only...what do you think?
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Yes, for the simple fact I'm more worried about the common worker losing their jobs if they go bankrupt and start massive layoffs more so than if they mismanage the money they are loaned.
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Da10th: Yes, for the simple fact I'm more worried about the common worker losing their jobs if they go bankrupt and start massive layoffs more so than if they mismanage the money they are loaned.
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Da10th: Yes, for the simple fact I'm more worried about the common worker losing their jobs if they go bankrupt and start massive layoffs more so than if they mismanage the money they are loaned.
But why not take a cut in pay? Do these people really need up to $70+ per hr to live? I don't think so! They want more and more...ant the product cast has to be higher to cover their wants! Looks as if they are "striking" their self right out of a job. I'm sure there are many people that would do their job, for a lot less.
Look at the auto makers down here in Alabama, average wages of $25 per hour(according to News reports). It all boils down to "greed" all the way around...not just the workers...but all aspects of the industry. JMO
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excuse the type'o ant=and, and cast=cost...
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TheresMyFriend: At $70 an hour?
Why don't you calculate how much the CEO's are making an hour and see which is more fair
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NO! UAW workers earn $75 an hour in wages and benefits--almost triple the earnings of the average private sector worker. Detroit autoworkers have substantially more health, retirement, and paid time off benefits than most Americans. These benefits, and a JOBS bank that pays UAW workers nearly full wages to not work, have been a major force driving the Detroit automakers' current fiscal woes. Consequently, Congress should not force all Americans to pay for high wages and benefits for UAW workers.
Also the majority of these jobs require no more education then a high school diploma, so it´s not as if employees are paying back tens of thousands of dollars in higher education costs and 4 or 5 years of their time becoming trained and educated. How do they justify these types of wages?
On top of the that UAW is still producing automobiles that are lower quality and higher priced then foreign auto manufacturers. It´s time for them to put their own house in order, improve quality, trim down costs and wages and take responsibility for their incompetence.
Also the majority of these jobs require no more education then a high school diploma, so it´s not as if employees are paying back tens of thousands of dollars in higher education costs and 4 or 5 years of their time becoming trained and educated. How do they justify these types of wages?
On top of the that UAW is still producing automobiles that are lower quality and higher priced then foreign auto manufacturers. It´s time for them to put their own house in order, improve quality, trim down costs and wages and take responsibility for their incompetence.
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jbibiza: NO! UAW workers earn $75 an hour in wages and benefits--almost triple the earnings of the average private sector worker. Detroit autoworkers have substantially more health, retirement, and paid time off benefits than most Americans. These benefits, and a JOBS bank that pays UAW workers nearly full wages to not work, have been a major force driving the Detroit automakers' current fiscal woes. Consequently, Congress should not force all Americans to pay for high wages and benefits for UAW workers.
Also the majority of these jobs require no more education then a high school diploma, so it´s not as if employees are paying back tens of thousands of dollars in higher education costs and 4 or 5 years of their time becoming trained and educated. How do they justify these types of wages?
On top of the that UAW is still producing automobiles that are lower quality and higher priced then foreign auto manufacturers. It´s time for them to put their own house in order, improve quality, trim down costs and wages and take responsibility for their incompetence.
Also the majority of these jobs require no more education then a high school diploma, so it´s not as if employees are paying back tens of thousands of dollars in higher education costs and 4 or 5 years of their time becoming trained and educated. How do they justify these types of wages?
On top of the that UAW is still producing automobiles that are lower quality and higher priced then foreign auto manufacturers. It´s time for them to put their own house in order, improve quality, trim down costs and wages and take responsibility for their incompetence.
Understandable, but, the Top 3 shouldn't have agree'd to the UAW demands if they felt they would run them into financial ruin.
A union is going to get as much as it can from any employer it fights. It's up to the employer to say enough is enough, we doing a lock out or hire temp workers if those in the union decide to strike.
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wage cuts for manufacturing jobs is phase one hopefully, next should be the educators and health fields then whos next on the list???
the 10 trillion dollar question is wh9o will be the last to sacrifice or forfeit there wages or benefits?
the 10 trillion dollar question is wh9o will be the last to sacrifice or forfeit there wages or benefits?
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Da10th: Why don't you calculate how much the CEO's are making an hour and see which is more fair
I should have made my point more clearly, instead of just the common workers. The whole bunch(CEO/workers)alike should back off the greed, to save their jobs. They don't need all that money...let them go buy a pound of dried beans, and potatoes. It won't kill them. Sometimes we have to think of the BIG picture!
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TheresMyFriend: I should have made my point more clearly, instead of just the common workers. The whole bunch(CEO/workers)alike should back off the greed, to save their jobs. They don't need all that money...let them go buy a pound of dried beans, and potatoes. It won't kill them. Sometimes we have to think of the BIG picture!
I have to agree 100%. All those folks can feel some of the pain. Doesn't need to be just the blue collar guys or the CEOs. We should include all levels.
Then perhaps they can adjust to the times as well and make some quality, fuel efficient cars.
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Da10th: Understandable, but, the Top 3 shouldn't have agree'd to the UAW demands if they felt they would run them into financial ruin.
A union is going to get as much as it can from any employer it fights. It's up to the employer to say enough is enough, we doing a lock out or hire temp workers if those in the union decide to strike.
A union is going to get as much as it can from any employer it fights. It's up to the employer to say enough is enough, we doing a lock out or hire temp workers if those in the union decide to strike.
... and so why should the rest of America pay for the greed and mismanagment of the unions, employees and management of the big UAW?
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TheresMyFriend: I should have made my point more clearly, instead of just the common workers. The whole bunch(CEO/workers)alike should back off the greed, to save their jobs. They don't need all that money...let them go buy a pound of dried beans, and potatoes. It won't kill them. Sometimes we have to think of the BIG picture!
The BIG picture is that they build a poor quality product and aren't competitive. That's not the UAW's fault, nor is it the guy assembleing or stamping the parts out.
When people were still buying their products because of patriotism or because their dad always bought brand X,Y or Z, the wages and beneefits weren't as big of a deal. Now that people are a little more educated about their choices, and buying more Toyotas and Hondas which are BUILT IN THE USA and CANADA!!!, the big three are whining and looking for a handout.
I don't agree, and they should suffer just like the rest of the people that lose their businesses. If they can't compete, better to go now, rather than suck taxpayer dollars away from more important places.
Have Toyota or Honda asked for a handout?
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jbibiza: ... and so why should the rest of America pay for the greed and mismanagment of the unions, employees and management of the big UAW?
IMO, yes, for the simple fact, the country can't handle a mass layoff. You have to realize, its not just going to effect auto-workers...Those that sell cars will lay off as well (they already are going out of business), those that sell parts will need to layoff due to a massive slow down in business, delivery companies will have to buy entire new fleets of vehicles (ones that relied on teh top 3 for their businesses) and that cost will be passed down eitheer through the consumer or through layoffs. And im sure the effects will even go deeper w/ that many unemployed sitting on government benefits.
I don't like the fact to do it, but in my opinion, it is good for the country in the long run.
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Da10th: IMO, yes, for the simple fact, the country can't handle a mass layoff. You have to realize, its not just going to effect auto-workers...Those that sell cars will lay off as well (they already are going out of business), those that sell parts will need to layoff due to a massive slow down in business, delivery companies will have to buy entire new fleets of vehicles (ones that relied on teh top 3 for their businesses) and that cost will be passed down eitheer through the consumer or through layoffs. And im sure the effects will even go deeper w/ that many unemployed sitting on government benefits.
I don't like the fact to do it, but in my opinion, it is good for the country in the long run.
I don't like the fact to do it, but in my opinion, it is good for the country in the long run.
So...what's wrong in all 3 "down sizing" to a more reasonable size industry? Fewer selections, not as many produced, still plenty of good used cars/trucks for sale! Lower labor cost, hell...lower everything that drives up product cost!
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TheresMyFriend: So...what's wrong in all 3 "down sizing" to a more reasonable size industry? Fewer selections, not as many produced, still plenty of good used cars/trucks for sale! Lower labor cost, hell...lower everything that drives up product cost!
They still need the loan to operate & make payroll.
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The problem isn't the companies themselves well, they are part of it, but if the banks weren't operating a freeze on loans like they are, they'd be able to make payroll and operating costs and this wouldn't even be a discussion.
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If we can bail out wall st. I think Main st could use one as well.
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Da10th: IMO, yes, for the simple fact, the country can't handle a mass layoff. You have to realize, its not just going to effect auto-workers...Those that sell cars will lay off as well (they already are going out of business), those that sell parts will need to layoff due to a massive slow down in business, delivery companies will have to buy entire new fleets of vehicles (ones that relied on teh top 3 for their businesses) and that cost will be passed down eitheer through the consumer or through layoffs. And im sure the effects will even go deeper w/ that many unemployed sitting on government benefits.
I don't like the fact to do it, but in my opinion, it is good for the country in the long run.
I don't like the fact to do it, but in my opinion, it is good for the country in the long run.
When you have companies that consistently produce an obsolete and inferior product at a higher cost you can throw all the money you want at it but the end result will still be the same... this is not the first time the auto industry has needed financial assistance and if good money continues to be thrown after bad it won´t be the last time either.
How do you explain to the mom and pop operations going under, not due to poor business management, but due to the financial crisis big business and government have created... that they´re going to lose their business and maybe there home and retirement but the ones who have caused the problems are going to get a free ride?
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TheresMyFriend: So...what's wrong in all 3 "down sizing" to a more reasonable size industry? Fewer selections, not as many produced, still plenty of good used cars/trucks for sale! Lower labor cost, hell...lower everything that drives up product cost!
Do we really need twenty different coupe models every year? Maybe they should stop the yearly rollout and build like they used to...to last...!
Toyota does it. Look at their midsize trucks...some of them have rolled their odometers over once, and are going on a second...same truck, 25 years later...
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I agree w/ you completely on that, however, right now the economy is in a strange place and I don't think it could handle the bankruptcy of the Top 3 and the fallout of it. Unusual times call for unusual measures.
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Da10th: I agree w/ you completely on that, however, right now the economy is in a strange place and I don't think it could handle the bankruptcy of the Top 3 and the fallout of it. Unusual times call for unusual measures.
another thing, alot of foriegn competitors actually have stakes in some of the Top 3, so the ripple effect could effect them as well.
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Da10th: If we can bail out wall st. I think Main st could use one as well.
Shouldn't be bailing them out either. It's large scale theivery.
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Galactic_bodhi: Do we really need twenty different coupe models every year? Maybe they should stop the yearly rollout and build like they used to...to last...!
Toyota does it. Look at their midsize trucks...some of them have rolled their odometers over once, and are going on a second...same truck, 25 years later...
Toyota does it. Look at their midsize trucks...some of them have rolled their odometers over once, and are going on a second...same truck, 25 years later...
I wish they would bring back the old VW bug...
They ran forever and you could drop a new engine in it for about 500.00------ This poll is Archived ------
Da10th: another thing, alot of foriegn competitors actually have stakes in some of the Top 3, so the ripple effect could effect them as well.
The ripples won't be crippling, they'll survive.
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Da10th: I agree w/ you completely on that, however, right now the economy is in a strange place and I don't think it could handle the bankruptcy of the Top 3 and the fallout of it. Unusual times call for unusual measures.
Everything changes, even the bad times...this is corporate welfare, and I think people need to realize that...if you're not competitive, you die...that is the nature of the world. Blah blah, yadda yadda about where we're at economically...that wont last forever, but keep giving them handouts and they'll never be anything but a welfare recipient standing in line for the next big bailout...and that will never change unless we force it to...stop the welfare, and they'll have to get a real job...
Third generation socialized industry...it didnt work for the Soviets, and it wont work for us...
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What I would like to see is them merge into a single entity and concentrate on hybrid/alternative fuel vehicles. However, us in America have a love affair w/ gasoline and once this financial crisis is over, will return to our bad habits.
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What would actually happen if the big 3 went under? Toyota, Honda, Nissan and other "foreign" would make up the market share lost by the big 3. More workers would be needed at those companies to fill the void. Don't think it would be as big a catastrophe as they would lead you to believe.
If the financial markets didn't get a hand out, they would go under, (so we were lead to believe). I haven't seen much evidence that the hand out is working.
If the financial markets didn't get a hand out, they would go under, (so we were lead to believe). I haven't seen much evidence that the hand out is working.
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Da10th: What I would like to see is them merge into a single entity and concentrate on hybrid/alternative fuel vehicles. However, us in America have a love affair w/ gasoline and once this financial crisis is over, will return to our bad habits.
We dont need hybrids. We have hydrogen, of which 2/3rds of 3/4's of the earth's surface is composed of...our love affair with oil is a manufacturing of consent. The tech exists to give everyone a renewable, green vehicle...but there's no money in it for the elite. "Free" doesn't set well with people who manufacture the illusion of scarcity...
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Da10th: What I would like to see is them merge into a single entity and concentrate on hybrid/alternative fuel vehicles. However, us in America have a love affair w/ gasoline and once this financial crisis is over, will return to our bad habits.
Here is a novel idea! Why not let us, Americans...who's tax dollars are whats being handed out at random, have a say/vote in the decisions?
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Created: Dec 2008
Last Viewed: Apr 23
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(POLL) Big 3 Bailout or Not? And why?(Vote Below)
My opinion: Restructure the business, and cut cost(wages of $70hr), and let the employees see that they can live on less. We have/had a local steel mill here local, and they voted their self right out of a job...now it is gone! Their fault, always wanting more and more, and more...till they strike their way out. Why not start cutting wages, so end products cost less, and get back into the competitive market.
These are just my opinions only...what do you think?