Do you believe in 'Original Sin' (99)

Apr 3, 2009 8:17 AM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
RillyNiceGuy
RillyNiceGuyRillyNiceGuySoutheast, Arkansas USA839 Threads 13,003 Posts
buzzy: You didn't answer my question, Can a person that has God, sin?



Your first was a statement not a question.

I will now answer this question. Yes! But one is either under grace or the law. If under law to death or under grace to unearned pardon and life. If one willfully sins and does not repent will leave grace and be under law. One under law repenting and obeying as best as they are able wanting not to sin....obtains grace.(of course in the manner stated)
Apr 3, 2009 8:18 AM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
nfowler
nfowlernfowlernowhere, Washington USA89 Threads 2,634 Posts
RillyNiceGuy: If you will READ Revelation you will find the first, second and a possible third. Those of the first are to be rulers,teachers,...etc....and the second death will not touch them. Those not knowing or mislead by all reasons will be those of the second resurrection and the books will be opened (scriptures) to them. Those knowing the real truth and rejecting it after full understanding will be cast into the lake of fire with those of the third ressurection who knew in times past the truth and rejected it.....all of those will be consumed and gone. Each of these things will be in order and in their own time. Read!
that is only in god day of judgement.
Apr 3, 2009 8:19 AM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
buzzy
buzzybuzzybiddeford, Maine USA24 Threads 1,492 Posts
RillyNiceGuy: Your first was a statement not a question.

I will now answer this question. Yes! But one is either under grace or the law. If under law to death or under grace to unearned pardon and life. If one willfully sins and does not repent will leave grace and be under law. One under law repenting and obeying as best as they are able wanting not to sin....obtains grace.(of course in the manner stated)


I thought the law ended when Christ died?
Apr 3, 2009 8:20 AM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
nfowler
nfowlernfowlernowhere, Washington USA89 Threads 2,634 Posts
Buzzy what year did you disassociate??
Apr 3, 2009 8:21 AM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
RillyNiceGuy
RillyNiceGuyRillyNiceGuySoutheast, Arkansas USA839 Threads 13,003 Posts
buzzy: So, a person who has God no longer sins?


I missed the ?...my error!

but my post following was the reply to that question!


I did answer.




as far a JW.....even a blind hog can find an acorn now and again.

The truth is for all who can find it....some find parts and some more. But truth is truth. even in the mouth of a child can be wisedom if one finds it.
Apr 3, 2009 8:23 AM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
buzzy
buzzybuzzybiddeford, Maine USA24 Threads 1,492 Posts
laugh Are you current or former?
Apr 3, 2009 8:24 AM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
RillyNiceGuy
RillyNiceGuyRillyNiceGuySoutheast, Arkansas USA839 Threads 13,003 Posts
nfowler: that is only in god day of judgement.


Beginning at the time of Christ return. But we are to be in one or the other by our lived life and knowledge now.
Apr 3, 2009 8:24 AM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
buzzy
buzzybuzzybiddeford, Maine USA24 Threads 1,492 Posts
RillyNiceGuy: I missed the ?...my error!

but my post following was the reply to that question!I did answer.

as far a JW.....even a blind hog can find an acorn now and again.

The truth is for all who can find it....some find parts and some more. But truth is truth. even in the mouth of a child can be wisedom if one finds it.


Are you saying JWs are blind hogs? rolling on the floor laughing You are correct about truth.
Apr 3, 2009 8:26 AM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
buzzy
buzzybuzzybiddeford, Maine USA24 Threads 1,492 Posts
RillyNiceGuy: Beginning at the time of Christ return. But we are to be in one or the other by our lived life and knowledge now.


If we are being judged by how we live, are we not always in God's day of judgement?
Apr 3, 2009 8:28 AM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
buzzy
buzzybuzzybiddeford, Maine USA24 Threads 1,492 Posts
nfowler: Buzzy what year did you disassociate??


1992
Apr 3, 2009 8:31 AM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
RillyNiceGuy
RillyNiceGuyRillyNiceGuySoutheast, Arkansas USA839 Threads 13,003 Posts
buzzy: Are you saying JWs are blind hogs? You are correct about truth.



You know better!
Apr 3, 2009 8:35 AM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
RillyNiceGuy
RillyNiceGuyRillyNiceGuySoutheast, Arkansas USA839 Threads 13,003 Posts
buzzy: If we are being judged by how we live, are we not always in God's day of judgement?


We are in a state of learning and choosing. There is a day of judgement. But we are under cause and effect....it places use in different results. The law does not judge it is defining of sin.
We WILL be judged!
Apr 3, 2009 8:39 AM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
RillyNiceGuy
RillyNiceGuyRillyNiceGuySoutheast, Arkansas USA839 Threads 13,003 Posts
buzzy: Well I have to say Rilly, you have given the clearest explanation I have seen yet. Thanks.





I try to help! I hope you also know that I am not trying to show my knowledge and ego. I really care about people! Thanks! If I can help....I bees round!grin
Apr 3, 2009 10:33 AM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
webbs
webbswebbsLexington, Michigan USA3 Threads 283 Posts
buzzy: You didn't answer my question, Can a person that has God, sin?


Yes, a person that has God still sins. Knowing God does not make me perfect or take away the fact that I am simply a flawed human being. Knowing God does give me a reason to want to continue to live my flawed human life. It gives me hope and it gives me a place to go for forgiveness when I do sin. Knowing God gives me a sense of belonging to something bigger than me. It gives me a sense of uniqueness and it gives me a sense of true, pure love. We all know that we hurt the ones we love and that goes for my God too. I do hurt Him when I sin. But I also have something to strive for. I can try to live my life the best that I can and honor God to the best of my ability. Some days I am better at it, but those times I suck...I know He is there to say it's okay I forgive.

So knowing God I still sin, but knowing God I strive to live a more godly and loving life.
Apr 3, 2009 10:41 AM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
kidatheart
kidatheartkidatheartFruitvale, British Columbia Canada30 Threads 16,544 Posts
I don't believe in sin, let alone original sin. It's all a crock.smoking
Apr 3, 2009 10:42 AM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
pretzelman
pretzelmanpretzelmanLas Vegas, Nevada USA43 Threads 1 Polls 2,956 Posts
NO!!
Apr 3, 2009 10:43 AM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
Now,what is Sin?rolling on the floor laughing devil
Apr 3, 2009 10:45 AM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
kidatheart
kidatheartkidatheartFruitvale, British Columbia Canada30 Threads 16,544 Posts
Conrad73: Now,what is Sin?



SIN: Social Insurance Number


At least in Canada.laugh


wave
Apr 3, 2009 11:00 AM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
kidatheart: SIN: Social Insurance Number.At least in Canada.
Now that is a SIN!laugh
Apr 3, 2009 12:07 PM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
whaaat
whaaatwhaaatden, South Holland Netherlands31 Threads 5,747 Posts
rusty_knight: Do you believe in 'Original Sin'?

If you do - why?

If you do - Do you resent the fact even though you believe in it?

If you don't - Do you believe in 'Original Innocence'?

Are human beings born already condemned as being evil or are little babies innocent?

Please express your views, if you have any, on this subject.

Personally, I used to believe in Original Sin but I resented it; later I grew to accept it - now I don't believe in it!

I think it is very nasty to make people believe they are intrinsically bad when they have done nothing wrong; it's mental manipulation to empower those in religious authority.

Please argue the other way if you disagree......... I am capable of changing my mind if you give me good reason to!


No i don't. if a father commited a crime, will the son be punished for it and the coming generation. Your grand grand children will be punished because (u know long time a go your great grand father commited a crime) so u are being punished for it.doh
Apr 3, 2009 12:17 PM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
whaaat
whaaatwhaaatden, South Holland Netherlands31 Threads 5,747 Posts
buzzy: Well I have to say Rilly, you have given the clearest explanation I have seen yet. Thanks.


if the penalty is paid, why are women still in pain during child birth. Because of the original sin are women dumed to suffer child birth.
Apr 3, 2009 12:21 PM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
Ambrose2007
Ambrose2007Ambrose2007BFE, South Dakota USA67 Threads 10 Polls 8,881 Posts
It's an absurd and evil belief, on a variety of levels. I often point out, in response to the usual religious assertion that we have free will, that being intrinsically sinful and being free to choose to be not sinful is logically contradictory.

So far haven't had many takers on that one (from believers).dunno laugh head banger handshake
Apr 3, 2009 12:22 PM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
nope....not in the original one nor any other sin for that matter...

do you own thing....don't hurt anybody else....don't step on toes.....

life is sacred..

....end of story.

head banger
Apr 3, 2009 12:46 PM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
wixomwizard
wixomwizardwixomwizardWixom, Michigan USA35 Threads 3,636 Posts
When Aam and Eve committed the first sin (disobedience to God), that trait was activated into their DNA which in turn, was passed on from generation to generation. Because of that initial sin, God demanded a blood sacrifice. He, Himself made the first one, by slaughtering a innocent lamb to provide covering for Adam and Eve's nakedness. As a lesson to all who would follow, a blood sacrfice was demanded for each sin committed as a reminder of the consequences of their sin. If you broke a law or a commandment, a price had to be paid.

In God's wisdom and mercy, He choice a time in the future when One sacrifice would be made to pay for all sins, past and present. That sacrifice came as Himself, in human form, Jesus Christ. He is the Lamb who was slain one time for all. Jesus did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it.

As a result, we live under the law or under grace. If we have asked God for foregivness, we are under His grae and protection. If we have not. we are under the law and each must pay for his/her own sin, whatever they may be.

THIS is ot a signal for a arguement to ensue...just a statement of fact for all to believe or disbelieve.

wave hug
Apr 3, 2009 1:35 PM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
rusty_knight
rusty_knightrusty_knightGozo, Malta175 Threads 2 Polls 6,840 Posts
Well, so far 64% of people who answered the poll do NOT believe in original sin; almost 2/3rds of people so far believe that they were not born with this heavy burden automatically.

It can be rationalised in a convoluted kind of way, but I don't think God was very nice to condemn me to have this sin without me personally having done anything - plus if God created everything he must also have created evil and if he didn't create evil he didn't create everything - right?

All I can say is that if God exists He/She/It is not a nice being at all............ and He/She/It should definitely be feared, but certainly not loved.

I fought for a lot of my life against believing then tried my best to believe, but I think the atheists here are probably right, even though I really like Christian principles.
Apr 3, 2009 1:55 PM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
rusty_knight: Well, so far 64% of people who answered the poll do NOT believe in original sin; almost 2/3rds of people so far believe that they were not born with this heavy burden automatically.

It can be rationalised in a convoluted kind of way, but I don't think God was very nice to condemn me to have this sin without me personally having done anything - plus if God created everything he must also have created evil and if he didn't create evil he didn't create everything - right?

All I can say is that if God exists He/She/It is not a nice being at all............ and He/She/It should definitely be feared, but certainly not loved.

I fought for a lot of my life against believing then tried my best to believe, but I think the atheists here are probably right, even though I really like Christian principles.


We have some pretty good principles too Rusty - I particularly like the set below;


These truths I hold to be self-evident:

We are human beings, intelligent and self-aware, possessing both reason and emotion, with the potential for immense good as well as terrible evil. Which of these two comes to be depends on our choices.

Every human being possesses inherent worth, and every human life is equally valuable. Our conscious existence is a thing worthwhile for its own sake, requiring no further justification.

By the exercise of our free will, we can select our own purpose and imbue our lives with meaning. Each person has the right and the responsibility to steer their own course through life.

Through the use of reason and conscience, we can perceive morality, defined as the principles of behavior which produce the greatest happiness and the least suffering both now and in the future. Morality is not dependent on personal opinion or societal prejudice, but is objective and universal and is accessible to every intelligent being. We should, to the best of our ability, obey these principles and be good to each other.

Human beings possess fundamental rights and freedoms upon which no one may infringe. Among these are freedom of conscience, freedom of expression, freedom of association, the right to privacy, the right to an education, the right to live in peace and safety, and the right to seek happiness.

There is a world that exists independently of us, which is not altered by will alone, but which we can learn about and come to understand and control.

Only through reason and the scientific method can we hope to learn how the world works. No other method of gaining knowledge is reliable and all claims to knowledge not gained through this method should be considered suspect.

The free human intelligence is a thing of awesome power, and has the right to travel and explore wherever it desires to go. No reason can ever justify the censorship or suppression of ideas.

The only ethical form of government is democracy. Every society has both the right and the obligation to revolt against and overthrow any other system.

The purpose of government is to establish justice, insure peace, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to all its citizens. Any government that does not speak for all its citizens equally or that ignores the needs of its most needy members deserves to be removed from power at once.
Apr 3, 2009 1:56 PM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
Wealth and power can only be a means to an end and never an end in themselves.

Throughout history, human beings have created a vast number of religious belief systems, all of which describe a supernatural world beyond our own. There is no good evidence in favor of any of these belief systems and no reason to consider any of them to be true. Supernaturalism and superstition have never done anything more than harm us, turn us against each other and hold us back. The effort and resources we pour into religion should instead be used for the benefit of all our fellow human beings.

And finally, I affirm that despite all our flaws and follies, despite all the darkness and madness in our past, and despite the forces of ignorance and hatred that beset us as never before, there is and will always be hope. We human beings have undreamed-of potential which we are only just beginning to touch on, and as long as people of courage and principle are willing to stand and defend what is right, we can create for ourselves and our descendants a future of bright light and clear air, a better world where we have at last achieved the good it was always in our power to bring about.



wave
Apr 3, 2009 2:25 PM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
wixomwizard
wixomwizardwixomwizardWixom, Michigan USA35 Threads 3,636 Posts
rusty_knight: Well, so far 64% of people who answered the poll do NOT believe in original sin; almost 2/3rds of people so far believe that they were not born with this heavy burden automatically.

It can be rationalised in a convoluted kind of way, but I don't think God was very nice to condemn me to have this sin without me personally having done anything - plus if God created everything he must also have created evil and if he didn't create evil he didn't create everything - right?

All I can say is that if God exists He/She/It is not a nice being at all............ and He/She/It should definitely be feared, but certainly not loved.

I fought for a lot of my life against believing then tried my best to believe, but I think the atheists here are probably right, even though I really like Christian principles.


I believe God holds you blameless UNTIL you actvate your sin nature by committing one.

God created the choice of good and evil and left it up to us, which one we would choose. Satanwas a angel of light, until he challlenged his creator by wanting to be better than Him.

Stop and think on this...NOTHING can ever be greater than that which created it.
Apr 3, 2009 4:37 PM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
webbs
webbswebbsLexington, Michigan USA3 Threads 283 Posts
wixomwizard: When Aam and Eve committed the first sin (disobedience to God), that trait was activated into their DNA which in turn, was passed on from generation to generation. Because of that initial sin, God demanded a blood sacrifice. He, Himself made the first one, by slaughtering a innocent lamb to provide covering for Adam and Eve's nakedness. As a lesson to all who would follow, a blood sacrfice was demanded for each sin committed as a reminder of the consequences of their sin. If you broke a law or a commandment, a price had to be paid.

In God's wisdom and mercy, He choice a time in the future when One sacrifice would be made to pay for all sins, past and present. That sacrifice came as Himself, in human form, Jesus Christ. He is the Lamb who was slain one time for all. Jesus did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it.

As a result, we live under the law or under grace. If we have asked God for foregivness, we are under His grae and protection. If we have not. we are under the law and each must pay for his/her own sin, whatever they may be.

THIS is ot a signal for a arguement to ensue...just a statement of fact for all to believe or disbelieve.



well said Wixom

thumbs up
Apr 3, 2009 4:54 PM CST Do you believe in 'Original Sin'
wixomwizard
wixomwizardwixomwizardWixom, Michigan USA35 Threads 3,636 Posts
webbs: well said Wixom


Thank you webbs! I noticed I cleared the room pretty quick!laugh I have a way of doing that, I thinklaugh hug

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