A good man? (610)
I'm happy trying to be a decent person whilst I'm here. I fail sometimes, but I try. After that, I'm history, so I have no 'fear' of other people's afterlife.
And If I'm wrong, I will STILL have lived my life honestly and to the best of my ability, but with a few less chips on my shoulder than some others.
I can live (and die) with that!
And If I'm wrong, I will STILL have lived my life honestly and to the best of my ability, but with a few less chips on my shoulder than some others.
I can live (and die) with that!
Then again they also say there are no atheists in foxholes 
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.Adam and Eve are in eternal hell... everybody knows the kids are always wayward and wrong and only the grownups from high in their exalted positions understand the real pleasure and power of punishment. 
....so they say.
....so they say.
Iuchi_Zien: Which begs the question are Adam and Eve in heaven or hell?
Maybe they repented!
You have to be able to feel pain in order to empathize with it... ask any tv evangilist passing the hat, when it comes back too light.
54xmax: And the funniest thing, poor people will sooner share what little they have then rich people . . . .
So is giving the homeless man your last pound coin to get a meal equal to saving (as an example) a thousand children from starving to death? I totally agree with you, you don't get wealthy by being generous (hence the lottery win part of my proposition) of course that opens another question, should he be penalised for spending money on a lottery ticket he could have used to give (again, as an example) a homeless man/woman a meal?
Conrad73: Maybe they repented!
to whom?
54xmax: And the funniest thing, poor people will sooner share what little they have then rich people . . . .
Exactly thats how they get rich ! and people here who have nothing will share half of what they have got now that is a good man/woman
Oh Iuchi... you are just on a roll aren't you? Is it raining your way 
?
?Firstly, If you have a problem with the views you put on the thread being questioned, why did you put them on the thread to be questioned?
Secondly Are you saying that heaven and hell are only available for Christians? If so what happens to the rest of the world?
Thirdly Doesn't the bible say that if you are Christian and repentant for your sins you will be allowed into heaven?
Finally You are taking a figurative term 'arrives at the gates of heaven' literally which is a deliberate attempt at obfuscation.
Firstly I've got no problem with my view being question - if and I say IF its what I said but when it isn't then yes I'm GOING TO HAVE A PROBLEM.
Secondly I never said heaven was only available to Christians, but then you seem to know so much about who is turning up at the gates that perhaps you've already taken a trip there.
Thirdly you got to learn to separate you issues a little better than that. Look at it this way, you own a home, do you have rules for who is allowed to enter your home? Can just anyone come in from the streets and plop down on your couch be they thief, psychopath, etc...I'm betting no right? Well the same applies, its up to the owner to decide who gets in to your figuritive heaven and who doesn't not the person on the other side of the door - just because they THINK they should. I'm sure you get my drift now.
Secondly Are you saying that heaven and hell are only available for Christians? If so what happens to the rest of the world?
Thirdly Doesn't the bible say that if you are Christian and repentant for your sins you will be allowed into heaven?
Finally You are taking a figurative term 'arrives at the gates of heaven' literally which is a deliberate attempt at obfuscation.
Firstly I've got no problem with my view being question - if and I say IF its what I said but when it isn't then yes I'm GOING TO HAVE A PROBLEM.
Secondly I never said heaven was only available to Christians, but then you seem to know so much about who is turning up at the gates that perhaps you've already taken a trip there.
Thirdly you got to learn to separate you issues a little better than that. Look at it this way, you own a home, do you have rules for who is allowed to enter your home? Can just anyone come in from the streets and plop down on your couch be they thief, psychopath, etc...I'm betting no right? Well the same applies, its up to the owner to decide who gets in to your figuritive heaven and who doesn't not the person on the other side of the door - just because they THINK they should. I'm sure you get my drift now.
tainogirl: if a person doesn't believe in 'God' (and I assume organised religion)then what is he doing at the pearly gates banging to get in.
Doesn't that contradict
tainogirl: I never said heaven was only available to Christians,
tainogirl: but then you seem to know so much about who is turning up at the gates that perhaps you've already taken a trip there.
Ah, mockery a nice Christian attitude for which I assume when you die you will be GENUINELY repentant for? OR ELSE!
Please do explain to me how, what I've written in response to your answer is making assumptions, that you aren't making yourself?
Tainogirl... I think he was just bored this afternoon and wanted to play Roman coliseum.
gininitaly: Oh Iuchi... you are just on a roll aren't you? Is it raining your way ?
No it's bright and sunny and if I had the money I would be out on my outfit riding round the Peak District!
Poor baby, we've had 2 gorgeous days here too.. been digging in the dirt making things grow... but clouds are forming as we speak 
.
.Religions have always been about money and power.. keeps the natives in line .
.gininitaly: Religions have always been about money and power.. keeps the natives in line .
Exactly history teaches us, and deeds are the ones that have merit, not what one says, or writes, but actions are the opposite and in 80% in a bad way, when it comes to actions of religious groups One just have to look in the past, or in the present we got more then enough examples of the bull that religion is doing
gininitaly: Religions have always been about money and power.. keeps the natives in line .
The problem is that people get religion and Faith/Belief mixed up. They are so VERY different.
I have a belief - but it follows NO structured religion on this planet. Even Atheism is a belief.
Religion is the rearing up and herding of those with a certain belief, with amendments made along the way to ensure conformity and continuity in the ranks.
illu_66: The problem is that people get religion and Faith/Belief mixed up. They are so VERY different.
I have a belief - but it follows NO structured religion on this planet. Even Atheism is a belief.
Religion is the rearing up and herding of those with a certain belief, with amendments made along the way to ensure conformity and continuity in the ranks.
I have a belief - but it follows NO structured religion on this planet. Even Atheism is a belief.
Religion is the rearing up and herding of those with a certain belief, with amendments made along the way to ensure conformity and continuity in the ranks.
Exactly, that's why I am glad that Nostradamus predicted that in the 2015 Roman Catholic Church as an institution will literally go to Hell
and I hope that finally historians and other prominent scientist will finally enter sacred halls of their library and archives and start digging around revealing us the WHOLE truth About Roman Catholic Church I will not be surprised if history will be rewritten and I am sure that humanity will be stunned by the discoveries they would make 54xmax: Exactly, that's why I am glad that Nostradamus predicted that in the 2015 Roman Catholic Church as an institution will literally go to Hell and I hope that finally historians and other prominent scientist will finally enter sacred halls of their library and archives and start digging around revealing us the WHOLE truth About Roman Catholic Church I will not be surprised if history will be rewritten and I am sure that humanity will be stunned by the discoveries they would make
I don't think the Catholic church is intrinsically bad, the problem is power corrupts and no amount of belief is going to prevent that. In ANY organised religion people who are able to manipulate others to gain power will do so, and the doctrine of don't ask questions just makes it easier for the scum to rise to the top. The organised religion then finds itself trying to justify the unjustifiable because the people at the top rose there not because of their faith but because they were the best at manipulation.
Iuchi_Zien: Doesn't that contradict Ah, mockery a nice Christian attitude for which I assume when you die you will be GENUINELY repentant for? OR ELSE!
Please do explain to me how, what I've written in response to your answer is making assumptions, that you aren't making yourself?
Please do explain to me how, what I've written in response to your answer is making assumptions, that you aren't making yourself?
o you think that it is OK for a bad Christian, who has hoarded his wealth and never gone out of his way to help a stranger to go to heaven simply because he is a Christian and he repented his sins before he died.
Did you see me write the above sentence? No? I repeat I never said that heaven was only for Christians.
And no I have no plans of repenting for my sense of humor - why should I? I like it and it serves me well.
Much nicer I would say than if I were in a truly MOCKING mood - which I'm not.
Its not my fault if you don't understand the deeper meaning behind what I've written (lord knows I've tried). Perhaps YOU should be the one to decide who gets mercy or not.
tainogirl: o you think that it is OK for a bad Christian, who has hoarded his wealth and never gone out of his way to help a stranger to go to heaven simply because he is a Christian and he repented his sins before he died.
Did you see me write the above sentence? No? I repeat I never said that heaven was only for Christians.
Did you see me write the above sentence? No? I repeat I never said that heaven was only for Christians.
Then please explain exactly what you meant when you said
tainogirl: if a person doesn't believe in 'God' (and I assume organised religion)then what is he doing at the pearly gates banging to get in.
I am Agnostic, I, personally, don't believe in the concept of heaven or hell. I am quoting the bible when it says that a Christian (however bad) simply has to repent his previous sins to get into heaven. My problem with that is that if you are a Christian and believe in Heaven and Hell, on your death bed you are going to be TRULY repentant aren't you? so if you believe the Bible is the truth where is the incentive to behave as anything other than selfish? You go to heaven whether you did good or bad, provided you repent? And where does that leave the rest of the world?
tainogirl: o you think that it is OK for a bad Christian, who has hoarded his wealth and never gone out of his way to help a stranger to go to heaven simply because he is a Christian and he repented his sins before he died.
Did you see me write the above sentence? No? I repeat I never said that heaven was only for Christians.
And no I have no plans of repenting for my sense of humor - why should I? I like it and it serves me well. Much nicer I would say than if I were in a truly MOCKING mood - which I'm not.
Its not my fault if you don't understand the deeper meaning behind what I've written (lord knows I've tried). Perhaps YOU should be the one to decide who gets mercy or not.
Did you see me write the above sentence? No? I repeat I never said that heaven was only for Christians.
And no I have no plans of repenting for my sense of humor - why should I? I like it and it serves me well. Much nicer I would say than if I were in a truly MOCKING mood - which I'm not.
Its not my fault if you don't understand the deeper meaning behind what I've written (lord knows I've tried). Perhaps YOU should be the one to decide who gets mercy or not.
Actually I did your point in all the posts you two are exchanging I see your point and I understand your point of view but I am not getting in the middle of you two I'm staying out of it
Iuchi_Zien: Then please explain exactly what you meant when you said
I am Agnostic, I, personally, don't believe in the concept of heaven or hell. I am quoting the bible when it says that a Christian (however bad) simply has to repent his previous sins to get into heaven. My problem with that is that if you are a Christian and believe in Heaven and Hell, on your death bed you are going to be TRULY repentant aren't you? so if you believe the Bible is the truth where is the incentive to behave as anything other than selfish? You go to heaven whether you did good or bad, provided you repent? And where does that leave the rest of the world?
I am Agnostic, I, personally, don't believe in the concept of heaven or hell. I am quoting the bible when it says that a Christian (however bad) simply has to repent his previous sins to get into heaven. My problem with that is that if you are a Christian and believe in Heaven and Hell, on your death bed you are going to be TRULY repentant aren't you? so if you believe the Bible is the truth where is the incentive to behave as anything other than selfish? You go to heaven whether you did good or bad, provided you repent? And where does that leave the rest of the world?
And I do agree with your valid questions, you both seem to be talking about the same thing, using different dictionary words BUT if we do FOLLOW what is said in the bible, then yes, according to it, if a "christian" repents, and Jesus has died for "our sins" Then even the least deserving WILL end up in HELL, if they repent, and no matter how one twists and turns this, it is written If one repents, one end's up in heaven and in the bible also is written, that if you are not Christian, no matter how much good you do, you will end up in hell - - - if you follow the "good book" and Religious people do refer to the bible all the time, so - - - - My point is, according to the bible, non Christians, what ever they do good, will end up in hell, it is clearly stated in the bible, that only CHRISTIANS will go to heaven - - - and if this is not enough I'll look for the passage where it says so, thou I think I may have posted it already on the forums here - - - -
54xmax: And I do agree with your valid questions, you both seem to be talking about the same thing, using different dictionary words BUT if we do FOLLOW what is said in the bible, then yes, according to it, if a "christian" repents, and Jesus has died for "our sins" Then even the least deserving WILL end up in HELL ( I MEANT HEAVEN ), if they repent, and no matter how one twists and turns this, it is written If one repents, one end's up in heaven and in the bible also is written, that if you are not Christian, no matter how much good you do, you will end up in hell - - - if you follow the "good book" and Religious people do refer to the bible all the time, so - - - - My point is, according to the bible, non Christians, what ever they do good, will end up in hell, it is clearly stated in the bible, that only CHRISTIANS will go to heaven - - - and if this is not enough I'll look for the passage where it says so, thou I think I may have posted it already on the forums here - - - -
Correction of the typo in green
54xmax: Exactly what you wrote, it does make it bad, cos the whole basis of Roman Catholic Church is the bible,
I agree, the bible contradicts itself so many times and in so many ways it is not a 'book' you can live your life by. People who read the bible take their own beliefs into the Bible, if you are good and kind you will gloss over some of the excesses, if you aren't you will revel in the 'blood and guts'. To condemn the whole Catholic church for the acts of a minority (Yes, a powerful minority) but still a minority is to condemn the population of Iraq for the acts of the Bath party. The growth of the Catholic church is negative BECAUSE of exactly what you complain about.
I mean I know a born again Evangelical Christian (I won't say he's a friend) who thinks that, even though he believes the Bible is the word of God, it is OK to cheat on his wife! Why? Because his wife won't sleep with him! Why? Because she found out he'd cheated! What have his church done about this NOTHING, In spite of his wife's protests, NOTHING! I'm sure the fact that he tithes 10% of his income to the church didn't remotely influence them! Does that make that church bad, I'd say no, it DOES mean that the worshippers need to seriously look at their leader/priest/pasteur/or whatever he is calling himself, but they won't because to think is 'evil'
54xmax: Correction of the typo in green
Freudian slip???
Iuchi_Zien: Freudian slip???
To much thinking and not looking under my fingers when I type cos sometimes my thoughts are faster then my typing
54xmax: To much thinking and not looking under my fingers when I type cos sometimes my thoughts are faster then my typing
hmm! not/but, been there!
Iuchi_Zien: Then please explain exactly what you meant when you said
I am Agnostic, I, personally, don't believe in the concept of heaven or hell. I am quoting the bible when it says that a Christian (however bad) simply has to repent his previous sins to get into heaven. My problem with that is that if you are a Christian and believe in Heaven and Hell, on your death bed you are going to be TRULY repentant aren't you? so if you believe the Bible is the truth where is the incentive to behave as anything other than selfish? You go to heaven whether you did good or bad, provided you repent? And where does that leave the rest of the world?
I am Agnostic, I, personally, don't believe in the concept of heaven or hell. I am quoting the bible when it says that a Christian (however bad) simply has to repent his previous sins to get into heaven. My problem with that is that if you are a Christian and believe in Heaven and Hell, on your death bed you are going to be TRULY repentant aren't you? so if you believe the Bible is the truth where is the incentive to behave as anything other than selfish? You go to heaven whether you did good or bad, provided you repent? And where does that leave the rest of the world?
If one doesn't believe in God(in the Christian sense) and organised religions - of which Christianity is one, then what's the point of believing in a heaven or a hell for that matter? Just carry on living and believing what you will, do your good or bad works and let the chips fall where they may when its time to go to the Six Foot Under Cafe. I'm sure you also understand(I hope) that not every Christian church follows the same doctrines. You upset because Mr. 'bad Christian' goes about repenting on his deathbed and is supposed to get this 'free pass' into heaven while old money bags was busy doing good works? You think a person should be rewarded by someone they don't believe in? I look at it from a practical sense. That why I used the example of the house owner. If there is a God then isn't it really up to the owner/God to decide who he deems as worthy to get in, whether you've done a million 'good deeds' or not. Anyway You're agnostic and don't believe in heaven or hell so it won't matter since you probably won't be around to see who does eventually get in anyway.More Threads
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Which begs the question are Adam and Eve in heaven or hell?