A man wins the lottery, (doesn't matter which one or how much) then decides that he couldn't live with himself if he was rich while children were starving to death so he goes to (a random) country and invests his fortune in producing food. He uses the food to make sure no child in that country EVER has to go to bed without a full stomach. Eventually he dies goes before the gates of heaven and says "I never believed in god, but I lived my life according to what I believed was good, I have done everything I could do to help my fellow man, I am a good man"
Iuchi_Zien: A man wins the lottery, (doesn't matter which one or how much) then decides that he couldn't live with himself if he was rich while children were starving to death so he goes to (a random) country and invests his fortune in producing food. He uses the food to make sure no child in that country EVER has to go to bed without a full stomach. Eventually he dies goes before the gates of heaven and says "I never believed in god, but I lived my life according to what I believed was good, I have done everything I could do to help my fellow man, I am a good man"
QUESTION
Is god going to let him into heaven?
There were probably a number of writers who said the following, so I will not try to quote any one specific, but the quote is:
"A man must have heaven IN him, to get IN heaven".
My belief is that you need to believe before the fact. Everyone's always naturally sorry AFTER the fact. Of course, the tender mercies factor is worth a thought or two--"For it is by grace ye are saved, and not by works, lest any man should boast"
rohaan: There were probably a number of writers who said the following, so I will not try to quote any one specific, but the quote is:
"A man must have heaven IN him, to get IN heaven".
My belief is that you need to believe before the fact. Everyone's always naturally sorry AFTER the fact. Of course, the tender mercies factor is worth a thought or two--"For it is by grace ye are saved, and not by works, lest any man should boast"
So a bad Christian will get into heaven but a good man will go to hell? What that says is that being a Christian is more important than being good? Doesn't that go against the parable of the good Samaritan?
Iuchi_Zien: So a bad Christian will get into heaven but a good man will go to hell? What that says is that being a Christian is more important than being good? Doesn't that go against the parable of the good Samaritan?
sorry mate you only get to go to heaven if your 'in' the god club....
Where do other religions stand on this question since the 'Christian' community seems to have gone shy all of a sudden! What about the Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist perspective?
Iuchi_Zien: Where do other religions stand on this question since the 'Christian' community seems to have gone shy all of a sudden! What about the Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist perspective?
I do my best to stay out of these threads because generally speaking anytime you voice an opinion or a belief you are torn to shreds.. having said that here is what i know.. the Christian Bible tells us that no man gets to the father but through me (accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior) it also states, and I can find these verses for you if you like, that works without faith are useless.. That, if you choose to believe it, is what the Bible says...
denmcintyre: I do my best to stay out of these threads because generally speaking anytime you voice an opinion or a belief you are torn to shreds.. having said that here is what i know.. the Christian Bible tells us that no man gets to the father but through me (accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior) it also states, and I can find these verses for you if you like, that works without faith are useless.. That, if you choose to believe it, is what the Bible says...
Torn to shreads for voicing an opinion, surely not! But, yes I believe you're right, which brings me back to the good Samaritan parable, doesn't Jesus suggest that being a good man is more important than being a bad Christian? Or did I just completely mis-understand the whole idea behind that parable.
Iuchi_Zien: Torn to shreads for voicing an opinion, surely not! But, yes I believe you're right, which brings me back to the good Samaritan parable, doesn't Jesus suggest that being a good man is more important than being a bad Christian? Or did I just completely mis-understand the whole idea behind that parable.
with the Bible, you cannot take one verse or passage and try to make a point with it.. yes being good and kind and generous is a very important part of Christianity, but there are other aspects to it, as with any religion.. to confuse this even more there are quasi-christian religions popping up every day that teach only one part or another form the Bible and ignore the rest.. I call them a la carte religions.. i am certainly not here to tell anyone what they should or should not believe, just stating what I know...
denmcintyre: with the Bible, you cannot take one verse or passage and try to make a point with it.. yes being good and kind and generous is a very important part of Christianity, but there are other aspects to it, as with any religion.. to confuse this even more there are quasi-christian religions popping up every day that teach only one part or another form the Bible and ignore the rest.. I call them a la carte religions.. i am certainly not here to tell anyone what they should or should not believe, just stating what I know...
But isn't this exactly what Christians do? Gay is bad because it says so in the bible where? and how often? Because as far as I am aware and I have no doubt I will be corrected if I am wrong the answer is once. I was under the impression the whole idea of Jesus's teachings were to do good, not be a Christian first THEN do good, but do good. If not where does the Good Samaritan parable fit? I mean doesn't it seem a little strange that a good dead is not a good dead unless you say you are doing the good deed in gods name? "For it is by grace ye are saved, and not by works, lest any man should boast" Isn't doing a good deed and invoking Gods name boasting? I'm better than you because you do good simply because you believe it is the right thing to do I'm doing that deed in Gods name!
PS Oh and the person who voted 'option I've missed' what was the option I've missed?
denmcintyre: with the Bible, you cannot take one verse or passage and try to make a point with it.. yes being good and kind and generous is a very important part of Christianity, but there are other aspects to it, as with any religion.. to confuse this even more there are quasi-christian religions popping up every day that teach only one part or another form the Bible and ignore the rest.. I call them a la carte religions.. i am certainly not here to tell anyone what they should or should not believe, just stating what I know...
But isn't this exactly what Christians do? Gay is bad because it says so in the bible where? and how often? Because as far as I am aware and I have no doubt I will be corrected if I am wrong the answer is once. I was under the impression the whole idea of Jesus's teachings were to do good, not be a Christian first THEN do good, but do good. If not where does the Good Samaritan parable fit? I mean doesn't it seem a little strange that a good dead is not a good dead unless you say you are doing the good deed in gods name? "For it is by grace ye are saved, and not by works, lest any man should boast" Isn't doing a good deed and invoking Gods name boasting? I'm better than you because you do good simply because you believe it is the right thing to do or I'm doing that deed in Gods name! who is boasting?
PS Oh and the person who voted 'option I've missed' what was the option I've missed?
Iuchi_Zien: A man wins the lottery, (doesn't matter which one or how much) then decides that he couldn't live with himself if he was rich while children were starving to death so he goes to (a random) country and invests his fortune in producing food. He uses the food to make sure no child in that country EVER has to go to bed without a full stomach. Eventually he dies goes before the gates of heaven and says "I never believed in god, but I lived my life according to what I believed was good, I have done everything I could do to help my fellow man, I am a good man" QUESTION Is god going to let him into heaven?
A real good man should do "good" for the sake of those children. Not in view to get any rewards, is it heaven or virgins.
gabrielle95: A real good man should do "good" for the sake of those children. Not in view to get any rewards, is it heaven or virgins.
EXACTLY! Doesn't it make a mockery of heaven and hell that a person who helps hundreds, thousands is consigned to hell while a Christian who has only ever helped himself and, maybe, those few around him is rewarded with heaven? If Mother Teresa had been an Muslim/Hindu/Agnostic/whatever, even aethiest! do you think God would have judged that as more important than all the good works she had done?
Iuchi_Zien: All the 'born agains' gone into hiding? So come on then what is the Muslim view on whether the 'good man' will go to heaven or be sent to hell?
denmcintyre: I do my best to stay out of these threads because generally speaking anytime you voice an opinion or a belief you are torn to shreds.. having said that here is what i know.. the Christian Bible tells us that no man gets to the father but through me (accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior) it also states, and I can find these verses for you if you like, that works without faith are useless.. That, if you choose to believe it, is what the Bible says...
So why the man had good works in his life he did not have faith in God without it it is impossiable to please God
Yes you did, but don't you see how it makes the choice of heaven and hell a mockery? Mother Teresa goes to heaven, a dead cert but if she had a double who did EXACTLY what Mother Teresa did but wasn't a Christian she goes to hell? I don't see justice? Do you? I mean do you honestly believe that a just God would allow that?
First off, what "god"? Nobody has ever shown me one despite how much they talk about it.
Second, those who claim "you need god to be good" say it not because they think it's true. They say it because they want to label non-believers as unethical and, if they can get away with it, label them as criminals. It's a fiction told to justify discrimination and violence against non-believers.
Religion has nothing to do with morality. At best it's a coincidence, and more often than not, a contradiction.
It is not about all the good that you do if it is not back up with faith in God because God did not want us thinking that this could be done only on works if that be the case then we would all go about doing just good works to make it to Heaven and not have faith or love or peace or joy or even think about accepting Christ as savior people kill themselves with works it is not wrong to do good but it is not what get you in Heaven it is a simple accepting of Christ as savior and that is by faith to
Iuchi_Zien: Yes you did, but don't you see how it makes the choice of heaven and hell a mockery? Mother Teresa goes to heaven, a dead cert but if she had a double who did EXACTLY what Mother Teresa did but wasn't a Christian she goes to hell? I don't see justice? Do you? I mean do you honestly believe that a just God would allow that?
You dont know where these people went and what was their state of thinking when they left the walks of this life it is not hard to understand if you think about it the bible said salvation Heaven is not of works lest any man should boost it is a gift from God to be acceptable and when you dont accept his gift of Christ then that is what sends you to Hell
lovely4u7da: It is not about all the good that you do if it is not back up with faith in God because God did not want us thinking that this could be done only on works if that be the case then we would all go about doing just good works to make it to Heaven and not have faith or love or peace or joy or even think about accepting Christ as savior people kill themselves with works it is not wrong to do good but it is not what get you in Heaven it is a simple accepting of Christ as savior and that is by faith to
So Jesus was wrong when he spoke to about the Good Samaritan was he? He praised the Samaritan as a 'good man' in spite of his position in society, his religious beliefs, he suggested all Christians should emulate this man and then God says "No, you're not a Christian, you're not coming in?" Is Jesus wrong? Are you saying that a bad Christian is a better person than a good man? (or woman?) Because if you are I suspect I'm going to meet a better class of people in hell, aren't I?
lovely4u7da: You dont know where these people went and what was their state of thinking when they left the walks of this life it is not hard to understand if you think about it the bible said salvation Heaven is not of works lest any man should boost it is a gift from God to be acceptable and when you dont accept his gift of Christ then that is what sends you to Hell
You're evading the question! I've noticed a lot of Christians do that!
Iuchi_Zien: Torn to shreads for voicing an opinion, surely not! But, yes I believe you're right, which brings me back to the good Samaritan parable, doesn't Jesus suggest that being a good man is more important than being a bad Christian? Or did I just completely mis-understand the whole idea behind that parable.
This was to see who was your neighbor and loving your neighbor as yourself was the reason for the parable
lovely4u7da: This was to see who was your neighbor and loving your neighbor as yourself was the reason for the parable
So the implication of that is that doing good is important. Why? If the only entry requirement for heaven is membership of the Christian faith, why is Jesus saying that doing good is important. Heaven and Hell are supposed to be about good and evil, how can somebody who does good things with his life be classed as evil? Are we all condemned as evil SIMPLY because we do not believe in God?
lovely4u7da: Your question was is God going to let him in Heaven and if not why ? you wanted to know
Well according to the scriptures no he wont get in on just good works
the words that came out of his mouth was I did not believe in God is what will send him to hell his unbelief
And you believe that is right do you? So you believe babies who die without ever having the chance to make a choice will end up in hell SIMPLY because they never got the opportunity? Do you thing God is bound by the scriptures? That God cannot act outside the scriptures? If so what happened to the God of justice? of charity? of fairness?
A Hindu legend says we were all once gods. But eventually we abused our powers. Brahma, the chief god, decided to punish us by taking away our divinity. Brahma called a meeting of the other chief gods to figure out where to hide our holiness. One god suggested hiding it deep beneath the earth. “No,” Brahma said, “man will just figure out a way to tunnel miles below the surface.” Another god suggested hiding our holiness at the bottom of the ocean. “No,” Brahma responded, “man will just learn how to dive to the seabed.” A third god came up with the idea of placing our divinity on top of a towering mountain. “No,” Brahma said, “man will just climb every tall mountain on the planet until he finds it.” Stumped, the other gods told Brahma they gave up—there didn’t seem to be any place to hide our holiness and keep it out of our reach. “Wait,” Brahma said with a smile. “I’ve got it. We’ll hide man’s holiness deep within himself—he’ll never think to look for it there.” Since then, we’ve spent ages digging below the earth, diving to the sea floor, and climbing tall mountains, looking for something that’s already within us.
Iuchi_Zien: You're evading the question! I've noticed a lot of Christians do that!
Let's suppose I am married to a wonderful woman. She keeps everything in excellent order; gives me backrubs; makes the most fantastic meals, praises me for working hard, accompanies me on camping/fishing trips, in short does good, nurturing things for me many times daily. Then one day she says, "I don't like you in the least. In fact, I don't love you. IN FACT, I don't believe you or believe in you". In spite of all of the beautiful things she has done, I am crushed. None of it matters if she feels that way about me. Does this answer it for you? please think about this...
Conrad73: A Hindu legend says we were all once gods. But eventually we abused our powers. Brahma, the chief god, decided to punish us by taking away our divinity. Brahma called a meeting of the other chief gods to figure out where to hide our holiness. One god suggested hiding it deep beneath the earth. “No,” Brahma said, “man will just figure out a way to tunnel miles below the surface.” Another god suggested hiding our holiness at the bottom of the ocean. “No,” Brahma responded, “man will just learn how to dive to the seabed.” A third god came up with the idea of placing our divinity on top of a towering mountain. “No,” Brahma said, “man will just climb every tall mountain on the planet until he finds it.” Stumped, the other gods told Brahma they gave up—there didn’t seem to be any place to hide our holiness and keep it out of our reach. “Wait,” Brahma said with a smile. “I’ve got it. We’ll hide man’s holiness deep within himself—he’ll never think to look for it there.” Since then, we’ve spent ages digging below the earth, diving to the sea floor, and climbing tall mountains, looking for something that’s already within us.
Conrad73: A Hindu legend says we were all once gods. But eventually we abused our powers. Brahma, the chief god, decided to punish us by taking away our divinity. Brahma called a meeting of the other chief gods to figure out where to hide our holiness. One god suggested hiding it deep beneath the earth. “No,” Brahma said, “man will just figure out a way to tunnel miles below the surface.” Another god suggested hiding our holiness at the bottom of the ocean. “No,” Brahma responded, “man will just learn how to dive to the seabed.” A third god came up with the idea of placing our divinity on top of a towering mountain. “No,” Brahma said, “man will just climb every tall mountain on the planet until he finds it.” Stumped, the other gods told Brahma they gave up—there didn’t seem to be any place to hide our holiness and keep it out of our reach. “Wait,” Brahma said with a smile. “I’ve got it. We’ll hide man’s holiness deep within himself—he’ll never think to look for it there.” Since then, we’ve spent ages digging below the earth, diving to the sea floor, and climbing tall mountains, looking for something that’s already within us.
Exactly, true goodness comes from within, doing what YOU believe is right not what anybody EXPECTS you to do. If you do good because you believe it is right that is far more worthy then doing it because you think God or Jesus will think it right.
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A good man?(Vote Below)
QUESTION
Is god going to let him into heaven?