The way I see this one POTENTIALLY turning out is this, Stress. And how it happened.
I will use a baseball game analogy. You have the bases full. About to get your best hitter to the plate with none out. And then they pick off the runner at first....and get him into run down. Then the runner on third breaks for home.....a throw there and a tag out. The runner on second breaks for third.....a throw there another tag out.....and now the runner that started it all....breaks for second.....another throw and another another out. Triple play. Big inning killed. And the entire team looking like fools.
This is 100% DEM. DEM Governor. DEM Senate Seat. DEM inner political working to sell it. The question is ....is the DEM President Elect or his staff deeply involved? Everyone understand that?
Here is how I piece this together and ahppenin. Been thinking about it some.
The IL Gov is a crook....for lack of a better term. He is the IL Politician that was in the Tony Resko influencing and extortion indictment. He has enough political pull to keep his name out of the indictment. And does. But in doing this.....now Barack Obama can get painted with the a Tony Resko association during the primaries. I tried to make the case there. Many others did as well.
Barack and his advisors don't like the Gov letting him get painted. Barack wins the election. And now the IL Gov sees a pay day coming with open IL Seante seat. He makes a short list including Obama favorite replacement. Now he begins to approach the various groups.....seeing who will pay the most.
He approaches Obama's group. And gets a rejection. They are still angry over the painting from the Tony Resko indictment. They aren't going to buy a Seante seat from him.He goes to the others....some seem to go for the deal .....maybe one tips off the FEDS to what is going on. We will know more as this unravels.
The IL Gov knows the FEDs are investigating him. He needs political currency fast. A way to stop or to alter the indictment. He reapproaches the Obama group.....knowing that they had rejected the offer....but he can get political currency if its made public and part of the investigation. Hence a conference call that the FED are taping. Hence the trirade and the f bombs.
Listen to the tape carefully. The IL Gov is talking in third person past tense. And in first person future tense. He had pitched the Obama team already. This was his second bite of the apple. Even if did not get a bite of the apple, he again gets political currency by painting Obama again.
But from a REP standing point. This DEMs pulling out a gun...placing it to their foot....and pulling the trigger. Totally self inflicted wounds. But I am giving the Obama camp full credit for rejection of the IL Gov and his offer.
Ship, first great to see you doing well in Las Vegas...The sweater over the shoulder and drink in hand remind me of the rat pack...that haunted Vegas in the early years.
President Elect Obama is soon the be head man. Any sense of improperity is a problem.....it effects how he and his administration is viewed in foreign countries and around world.
Ship, honest...I hope this is all smoke in the connection of President Elect Obama and the IL Gov.
But.....answer me this. If a President Elect asked you or me....or any other American to step down.....as has been done here.....my desk would be cleaned in a day and I am gone. I respect the position of the President that much.
The IL Gov has circled the wagons and is not stepping down. President Elect Obama is head of his party, soon to be head of the country....and he cannot get a corrupt DEM Gov to step down? Or does the IL Gov really have a hole card to play?
That is not showing me alot of control of his party. And on the Gov part this could be all a feint and positioning to the coming legal actions. But we are not going to know unless the FBI and the prosecutor are free to do thier jobs. If after Obama is in office there are roadblocks to that.....not good.
The IL Gov was trying to get his wife a lobbying position near the Obama Administration. Meaning he wanted to influence this administration in the future. He was talking a cabinet position for himself. When he did not get them.....he didnot care that on a conference call with several others to do a trirade. Or even he was being recorded by the FBI. What would give him an idea any such things would be acceptable to Obama and his people? Unless he had some prior dealings that said they would be acceptable? Or unless he has a hole card?
Tough and troubling questions.....but they need and deserve answers.
Over the last 8 years...REP like myself have given you our best answers on some tough and troubling questions. You might not have liked them. But we stood there and answered them. It is part of leadership, Ship. It ain't pleasant and it ain't pretty at times.
I would agree, Spark...but here is my BUT and I think that it a good one.....
Chicago and IL politics historically have been very corrupt. You need to remember Obama could have gone any place in the country after college.....he choose Chi town and its politics politics. He choose it for a reason.
This is a very intelligent man. I said in the OP.....that there is no connecton to Obama .....but the danger is.....as I see it.....is the Gov. Blagojevich either having or thinking that he has something to incriminate him...
Gov Blagojevich is facing 30 years....if he can roll or flip on Obama or just paint him to get a lower and reduced sentence he will.
The little heat Obama and the DEMs are getting on this...is nothing compared to what happens if they screw up Iraq and Afghanistan.
This is just a little warming, compared to what will occur then.
A near quote from President Elect Obama....We cannot mess it it up any worse that what they have. Good I hope he suceeds. But if he does figure out a make it worse.....expect some real heat.
Why did not the DEMs join the team in 2003 and 2004? They were the minority opposition party..felt they had a duty to the country to expose wrong. Here a little opposition party and a lot wrong get exposed close to President elect Obama....and I am a hate monger.
Since no one has posted on it. I will step into the fire pit. After the first step....how can it get any hotter than that?
Facing 30 year in a Federal Prison, if Gov. Blagojevich has any thing on President Elect Obama or his campaign to the Presdency......thing could be challenging for the President to be.
The selling of a Senate seat by Gov. Blagojevich for jobs and money is lower than low. The tape that the Feds arrested him on, was concerning Obama choice for the seat to be filled. The good Govenor sawa pay day coming.....and tried to pressure the Obama campaign into making a contribution. In the tape....when rejected, the IL Gov does get a tad heated.....with more f bombs than Rosie.
But even thought the tape does not make a connection. President elect Obama is not out of the woods on this one yet. President Obama was a strong supporter of Gov. Blagojevich for the position of the Gov. AND Tony Resko fit into the picture in some manner. Gov. Blagojevich has been under investigation for 4 years all during which Presdient elect Obama was smiling at him.
Rev Wright bounced back into the picture this week. He gave a speech at Trinity Church on Dec 7th.....saying this was the day that American killed 80,000 Japanaze with the atmic bomb....sorry Rev....revisionist history.....cannot stretch that far. Dec. 7th was the attack on Pearl Harbor...and Americans were killed.
Well as we charge ahead to President Elect Obama oath of office ceremony in late january....maybe the DEMs should be asking President Bush to save some of those pardons for DEMs that are falling into the prison system.
More plaid is worn in the north , than the south, Robbie. If I remember the movie correctly...it was not Cajun.....or in Lousiana. Was in the Applicians someplace. Was a local southern dialec, though
Maybe you got the European movie version.......LOL.......
Robbie....the boys in Deliverance....were mountain folk ......Southern Gentlemen.....think Rett Butler of Gone with the Wind...as the role model for us.
Florda crackers would give you the shirt of thier back, thier pick up truck and thier dogs......just as long as you buy the dog food, put gas in the truck and provide the sunscreen. Joking aside.
Southerns are known for hospitality and chivilary.
Well if TEXAS was a indepedant country......and GWB was the leader.....just imagine it then. He might even bring the Duke back into the Gov't as his National Guard commander.......
It is somethings.....GWB....going out of office soon. Wonder if he can run for Govenor of Texas again? You know Texas has a very strange Constutional right. See at one time Texas was a country.....and when it entered the United States as a state.....it kept some of the rights of a soveriegn country.
Meaning....that if GWB was Governor of Texas....and Texas declared war........on say.................anyone:-)..............he could deploy the Texas National Guard into the fray.......well.....anyplace. Heck I bet that Gov Palin would jumb into the fray with the Alaskan National Guard. Then not to be out done.....the other 20 REP Governor would all jumb in with thier national guard units into the fray.
Maybe we can even get them to make some Iraq deploymernts after the 2011 withdrawal date.:-)
Read the post Ship. One was unjustified (Sadam had no jurisdiction or legislated order to 'nuke' the Kurds. The other...a declared war with enacted war timepowers (e.g. legal justification) of the US Congress.
We are gone in 2011, Ship. Seems like there is the known timeline to our withdrawal now. Watch what happens the months before.
I asked a wise old master sargeant (3 tours in Nam)....when was the most dangerous time of a conflict was. His answer....at the beginning and the end.
With the last quarter of 2011 the withdrawal date....those home made IED factories in Syria and Iran will be doing over time to make IEDs now. Only so many routes in and out of Iraq, Ship. Add it up. What do you think will happen?
Interesting comment Threadbare. Seems you had a Khasmir Pakistani terrorst cell make its way to Mumbai. Seems like they wanted to kill everyone in the village as well. In opposing that, I stand with India.
I stand with Iraqi that want to be free of Sadam's terrorism. Let us face it, using chemical weapons on the Kurds in the North is terrorism as well.
One is unjustified a trans border aggression and the other is unjustified internal aggression. The key word here is "unjustified". No due process had been done in either case.
So the questions comes.....is the US Force deployment to Iraq unjustified? The Congressional vote.....made it a justifiable, a certian due process has ocurred. Gave GWB all the authority for such military operations. The UN's main charter give clause to when military operation are deemed justified by a nation state (I think). I think that the US Congressional vote would meet the UN Charter clause requirements.
Military operations are conducted all the time with insufficant knowledge or inaccurate knowledge or misleading knowledge. It is not a perfect world.
At ths point..Iraq and the US have signed a force withdrawla for late 2011. If other countries wish to withdraw sooner. I sus pect that will be OK. Americans here thank you for your service and commitment to this.
I also think that the Iraqi know themselves when the best time for this withdrawal is to occur. They have internal timelines for thier gov't agencies and military units to come into full operation. If 2011 is fine with them, it is fine with me.
Lastly maybe blame the trigger man or the IED detonator for killing your and our service men. Or his group. At least some. You could not do that in your country..I couldnot do it here....why should we expect it is lawful to do it in Iraq? It is not, with the gov't, laws and courts that hve been established there.
It is geopolical novel. So not sure if the information on the Quaran has any merit or revelance.
But in the novel, is says there might be a section of the Quran...a final lost section....that was never made public. That Mohammed died before it was made public. That this final section might revoke much of the violent content of the Quran.
As I understand it, there are 9 present sections to the Quran. Any merit to the possiblity of a 10th?
I figured this fit as well into the thread as any of the Obama threads here at CS.
This morning I was having breakfast at one of the local's local restraunts. You know what I mean....a restraunt where the locals eat often. This one use to have a liar's table...even had a sign on the wall over it saying just that.."Liars Table".
It was the table where the fisherman with the biggest fish story of the day...or the local policitan with the biggest BS could sit....tell a story and not keep his fingers crossed as he eat his meal. Hard to pick up silverware with finger crossed. Things got political correct around here and the game warden started checking catches...so they did away with the Liar's table. But that is another story.
That is the kind of place it is.
So am sitting at a table...across from me is a man in mid late 70s and boy of 7-8 years old. Both are wearing the local garb of working boots, jeans, western shirt, and a white full brim stetson with a single black roping. They were from a local ranch family...grandfather and his grandson. Coming in for breakfast after doing something with their stock early that morning.
If you want a REP...it was this gentleman. Thru and thru the elder here would be a REP. I don't know for sure, but some 24 years of working the elections here.....and one gets a feeling.
So I am really surprised to hear the elder politely ask the boy...."Who is the new President? The boys says Obama is the new President. The elder nods his head does not make any negative or political statement at all. The conversation move on to other things. This is just grandfather checking on his grandson to see if he up with current events in the country. There is no political lesson be taught here.
The boy is bright as whip. At the end of the meal....his grandfather dropped a tip on the table. The boy pulled out a roll of ones and added to it. Grandfather and parent were already teaching him to work with money and to be respectfull to people giving service. It was all 'thank you mamm' and 'please' at this table.
Anyways with young men like this coming to be men our country. It is going to be in good hands. With elders like this one teaching him...to respect all....even a new elected President Obama that he likely in opposition too....American values can still be seen in our country.
I suspect you are into the day of the massive Foreign Diplomacy mission with Hillary in chage of State. Remember Bill taking 2000 to China to negotiate there? Rumor is Hillary is asking for 4 more 747s to be bought for State Department, if she is to take the job,
Ok I just made the rumor up. Someone has to protect those auto maker execs who are flying to DC in corporate aircraft.:-) There is not a major corp in the country that does not operate a aviation department.
How would one move exec teams to / from geographically scattered plants all over the country and world like the auto firms have? Shuck the Federal Gov't operates a flight department of nearly a 1000 aircraft and helos.
Admittly G-8s for the DC trip is a expensive trip. What if your exec team was in Europe? And is catching the DC hearing on a return Atlantic flight?
I know for us poor people....that say flying is an expensive activity for a firm that is hurting....this seems excessive. Business studies say that when a firm has financial difficulties....it is the aviation department that is one of the first to get the budget reductions and cutbacks.
Thought I would catch you all here on this thread. How goes things all? All well I hope with all.
Yes.....shucks DEMs did not need to nominate Hillary for President. All they had to do was have Obama employ all of Bill's old staff. I wonder how well this is sitting with the far left? Like a shoe with a load of sand in it, I bet.
Market likes his choices...up 500 points.
Have to admit Hillary as Secretary of State has a certain poetic justice to it. She can go to Denmark and demand extradition of Dude for a international hijacking of a political campaign.:-)
Just teasing Sky. Don't get ruffled feathers.
Seems like he like Bill Gates of Defense. A good choice there. I hope he stays.
Yes Nepolaino for Homeland is a surprise to me. Much of Homelend is done oversea now. Customs does it inspections of cargo container mostly inm foreign ports. Coast Guard operates off Haiti and other countries.
A 35 year old, 5'10" blonde with high heels and a tan that will not quit. Big blue eyes, speaks fluent English with a slight Russian accent. Former Russian military with Spetnaz training now presently in the Russian secret service.
To be honest Ship, President elect Obama might be to 'nice'.
With two ground wars and a broader GWOT being a nice guy President is not necessarily an attribute. No he does not have to be an dictator and totally authorian either. But according to what he told Gen. Petraisin Baghdad, he is going to run military operations more from the White House (e.g. that old micro management thingee a im gee).
So?
Well we just had 21killed in Afghan to a convoy attack. How does a Commander in Chief stop or even have the tactical ability in DC or where ever to get into such a fight? By the time he get word of the fight in DC, you are picking up pieces on the road.
He may consider it his place to be as Commander in Chief. But what he is really doing it over shadowing an second quessing all the officers/nco involved in the decision making process for making the mission plan and the in the fight itself.
One of scene of WWII, was when General Paton came to one of his unit that fought a night engagement with the a German unit. Patton shows up a few hours after the battle has ended. Talks with his unit commander that has survived the fight that had turned to hand to hand combat.
Paton kisses the man on the forhead. That is being merciful to a man that has just fought a battle. FDR could not be there to do that. Only the field commander can be.
President elect Obama may want to show such kindness. But his role is in Washington and in leading the country. That does not mean he cannot have great impact with the troops or the strategic decision of the military operations. But the day to day operations and the actual war fighting....he is not skilled, versed or trained for such.
Really very good spin, Rusty. Bush senior was not in office when the wall came down. President Reagon was. So? Could not have made the promise you mention.
Russian leadership is so ambievant to the west...that it just upgraded it Topol-Ms, wrote a contract with Brazil for a stealth fighter, is putting missiles near the interceptor states, putting electronic jamming near them as well, has played net games with EU countries financial systems, played with the price of Russian crude, and had its own little invasion of a country of recent.
Putin seems to be getting the political power and legislation to return to the Presidency after Medvedev does his turn.....then they can do a another handoff to Medvedev in 4 years times...so Democracy is about kaput there.
Fear Russia? Not here, Rusty. Sure they got nucs....to destroy the US. But that old mutual self destruction works like a charm on that. It is those Russian T-82s rolling thru Europe that you got to watch for. If they ever did roll accross a border.....anyone there going to stop them?
As I hear it .....our President elect.....is not big on foreign military deployments. Seems he wants to force increase in Afghanistan. Cannot be two places at one time. Man, Europe is along ways from Afghanistan......I doubt if the calvary will get there in time.
Catch 22 is the clause number in the US Army Manual of a psycharist in the evualation of a service member to see if he was certifiable for being discharged from the service for mental defiencies.
Don't quote me....but it went some thing like this.
Catch-22:
If a service member admits he is insane because of the war, he cannot be insane, because war is a insane practice. So he is telling the truth and is not insane. If a service member admits he dislikes war, he is sane and there for should not be discharged for mental causes. Because the military service needs sane persons to conduct the war.
Catch 22 was one of the first 'anti war' books written after WWII.
Joseph Heller the author had been a USArmy pilot during the war.
In Catch 22, he attempts to discribe the lunacy of war, its effects on men, the strange circumstance of that men and women can get into during war time.
Was required reading at the college I attended.
Yosserian was the principle character....but also these was Milo Mindbender. Milo had formed a corporation....the MM Corporation.....which was doing very lucrative business deals on both sides the battle front in black marketing.
If memory serves me....near the end of the book, a German contract air assault on the USARMY airbase/city using British warplanes/pilots by the MM Corp in Italy. During which Yosserian realizes the futility of war.....and has a conversation with Milo.....in which he asks him....why? Milo.....says.....Germans Marks are good as American Dollars.
Book was made into a movie also. Many feel it was a take off for many anti Vet Nam War books/movies.....of the 60s and 70s.
ttom500 Forum Posts (10,523)
President Elect Barack Obama and IL Gov. Blagojevich
The way I see this one POTENTIALLY turning out is this, Stress. And how it happened.I will use a baseball game analogy. You have the bases full. About to
get your best hitter to the plate with none out. And then they pick off the runner at first....and get him into run down. Then the runner on third breaks for home.....a throw there and a tag out. The runner on second breaks for third.....a throw there another tag out.....and now the runner that started it all....breaks for second.....another throw and another another out. Triple play. Big inning killed. And the entire team
looking like fools.
This is 100% DEM. DEM Governor. DEM Senate Seat. DEM inner political working to sell it. The question is ....is the DEM President Elect or his staff deeply involved? Everyone understand that?
Here is how I piece this together and ahppenin. Been thinking about it some.
The IL Gov is a crook....for lack of a better term. He is the IL Politician that was in the Tony Resko influencing and extortion indictment. He has enough political pull to keep his name out of the indictment. And does. But in doing this.....now Barack Obama can get painted with the
a Tony Resko association during the primaries. I tried to make the case there. Many others did as well.
Barack and his advisors don't like the Gov letting him get painted. Barack wins the election. And now the IL Gov sees a pay day coming with open IL Seante seat. He makes a short list including Obama favorite replacement. Now he begins to approach the various
groups.....seeing who will pay the most.
He approaches Obama's group. And gets a rejection. They are still angry over the painting from the Tony Resko indictment. They aren't going to buy a Seante seat from him.He goes to the others....some seem to go for the deal .....maybe one tips off the FEDS to what is going on. We will know more as this unravels.
The IL Gov knows the FEDs are investigating him. He needs political currency fast. A way to stop or to alter the indictment. He reapproaches the Obama group.....knowing that they had rejected the offer....but he can get political currency if its made public and part of the investigation. Hence a conference call that the FED are taping. Hence the trirade and the f bombs.
Listen to the tape carefully. The IL Gov is talking in third person past tense. And in first person future tense. He had pitched the Obama team already. This was his second bite of the apple. Even if did not get a bite of the apple, he again gets political currency by painting Obama again.
But from a REP standing point. This DEMs pulling out a gun...placing it to their foot....and pulling the trigger. Totally self inflicted wounds.
But I am giving the Obama camp full credit for rejection of the IL Gov and his offer.