I remember a story from my Dad..post WWII...his company was a firm that sold coal....to homes and business.....and the drivers of the trucks...were being unionized in a few of the offices.
They would get a contract to negotiate.....and he would look at it terms......and the drivers were getting less per hour......because of the fees and dues going to the union. So they (management) hold off signing the contract.
The union begins to follow the driver wives....to pick fights with the drivers in the bars......to harass them....to put pressure on the management to sign the contract. Eventually the drivers come to him, asking him to sign the contract. My Dad says to them.....you guys are going to lose money if we do...you will not make the wages you are now.
They say, yes we know.....but to get the Union off our back....please sign it.
Do management abuses occur? yes. So do union abuses.
The real problem with Union giving to political parties and canidates....is just what has been mentioned....the union members don't have much control to the amount, person, it goes to. Having said that I feel reform is needed here. I also think that reform is needed in corporate giving as well.
How can a firm that is going bankrupt like the Fannies were give money to both Obama and McCain? That is when you tighten the hatches and find out how to do more with less.....giving donation to canidates when you are in financial trouble and them might get a bailout, or gov't loan, or major gov't contract......has a lot of smell to it.
since we seem to all agree that they merged to become one gaint amebia......
What would you have the two major political parties of the US become?
According to one ticket it is the season of political change and according to the other ticket is the season of political reform.
What would like for them to add to thier positions, policies, programs, platforms?
We could take the REP party to the kill em and nuc em party and the DEM party to the most honorable and talented party according to a certain blogger from Denmark.
The real thing about political parties....is that they are defined by thier leading members.....that give them direction and purpose. Ron Reagan is good example of that. LBJ is a horrible example of that.
As different as McCain/Palin ticket is to the REP party....they still have not defined what the party is. Don't kid yourself there are a few good old boys in there....the Palin housecleaning needs to shine a little light on.
And as attractive as Obama is. Think that he has the DEM party under control when Howard Dean is the DNC chairman? When the Clinton's sit on the branch of a tree overwatching the results of the 2008 election, like some buzzards we have here in Florida?
Just like they are saying that Washington is broken......the parties themselves are broken, fractured and split as well. Where did all that Washington infighting comes from? From the two parties that sent members there to govern. But you don't hear any of the running candiates right now......saying.....hey point a little of that reform and change on my political party...why? Political suciede at this time to do so.
So if you don't like what the parties are....what should they be?
It goes back along ways in country history Fallingman......the reason they dumped the British tea into Boston harbor was the tax that the Brits had placed on it.
Americans are solid on free entreprise and on capitolism. Feel that if you make it, then only fair you spend it.
Obama has tough road here. He cannot do the national heath care program without a tax hike. He also knows that if he does a accross the border tax hike....the voters are smart enough to say....hey this is for health care....I can get a health care policy and pay my own premuim...why do I need gov't in the middle?
So he put together the tax only the wealthiest 5%...lets them pick up the bill for the 95% others. But that does not fly on our thoughts to wealth redistribution and socialism, either. So he is still in a bind.
Health care an issue in this election? Sure it is. McCain recognzed it was going to be an issue....came out with his $5k per family tax credit for health care.....you pick you carrier. Obama is locked on a National Health care plan and letting a small percentage of the country pick up the tab.
So in all of this...Obama has shown us he will dabble with socialism, with a wealth distribution plan, will further dabble with it in a National Health Care plan, and will tax a small segment of society to do it. At the same time...saying unite behind me.
Obama has position conflicts to the American norms of free enterprise, individual responsiblity and decision making. REP have seen it...expect some commercials on it soon.
Dude, the Dems are running out of political issues.
One of the last attacks on Palin........was on her being a hockey mom.
That right......they are questioning her claim to be hockey mom. Before we go to much further in this. I have seen photos of Sarah Palin with her son's hockey team, in uniforms inside a hockey rink. So I think she has a pretty good claim to saying she is a hockey mom.
But why make it a creditability issue? There are women (likely DEMs)coming out on the nets...saying ...OH she is no hockey mom....I know what a hockey mom is. So do I. My mom was a hockey mom to my brother and self for about 15 years. My brother's team traveled the country in tourney and league play. So I have a pretty good idea the headaches of being hockey mom, a wife, elected official.........scratch the wife from the list......LOL
But really why take the time and energy to debate Palin on the issue of being a hockey mom. Is it the lipstick thing-a-m-gigee? Really? Obama sticks his foot into a hornets nest over using the phrase......'put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig'......maybe forgetting that Sarah Palin was on the other side....someone that does wear lip stick in real life.....and he gets stung for it. So?
He made a political gaff......ouch......grow up.....be a big boy, learn from the expereince. And take lipstick off the teleprompter list of words to use.:-)
But to now go after Palin as not being a hockey mom....as some are doing. LOL......don't we have better things and more important things in the country to debate and issue? Why waste the time here? The energy here? Sure we do.....we have Grinrich inviting Obama to a American Solution program.....where real issues and real solutions are being hacked out.
REP are stepping accross the aisle way to reach out to DEMs right now....and the DEMs want to debate the issue of Hockey Moms? Sure it is political fun.....but if such detail is going to vetted and questioned by the sides.......we will be here for the next 1000s years and nothing will get accomplished. The country deserves.....we all deserve more than that.
I just read a letter from Newt Grinrich to Barak Obama.
The former speaker commended Obama new commecial on 'real change' and invited Obama to particpate in te American Solutions program that he sposoners.
No strings.....just come and participate.
Dude, do you think that REP want to keep Obama or his many supporters out of the political process to change America? No. They fully understand the DEMs have just as much at stake in getting good and solid changes for America as REP do.
Think that Obama will particpate on Sept 27th? My bet is no. He did not on the earlier that started the drill here and drill now campaign.
Think that Obama will let his top people participate? Again my bet is no.
There is the problem.
Unlike the foreign far left, where it considered that the opposition is a struggle to maintain your gov't power position. The reality of American politics is compromise and understanding the issues of the other group to incorporate them into your positions.
Ginrich opens the door for Obama and his top people to attend and participate. How can it hurt? They mix their ideas into the the American solutions ideas....you have better change to consider at the end of the election. BUT the DEMs see this as their issue. That really the REP have little reason to support change.....they are the Bushneys.
But when they fail to see it...they mix what McCain is (a reformer) what projects like American solutions can do for all. Make it appear that the DEMs cannot compromise to make it work...in Washington or the country.
If Obama does not step into this kind of mid road forum.....it says the opposite as well.....that he is still to far left and has not come to right enough.
Grinrich has him by the short hairs.....if he doesnot show....means he doesnor like this kind of change and insults the people of American Solutions. If he does show....means he is looking for ideas to move further to the middle and away from his base. Ticking off the left and liberals that support him.
Things that Obama should do now....to have a chance to winning the election. I once told you I am student of politics. As such here is what I think that Obama should do to win this election.
1) Say that the surged worked in Iraq. That he is thankful for for the leadership of GWB and his adminsitration in placing his possible Adminstration into a better position regarding Iraq.
2) Say that he wants to reconsider force deployment to Afghanistan
3) Announce his plan on the GWOT
4) Announce a cabinet position for Hillary
5) Step away from a National Health care for a subside plan (e.g McCains)
6) Go Pro on Offshore Oil
7) State his plan for change and hope
Realistically, he might do 1 of 8. Cabinet position for Hillary.
The other 7 are no gos for him. Because he cannot give an idea of his plans, or to admit success in Iraq....most Americans don't trust him. With out the other 7, he leaves us in the dark. Distrust and lack of leadership are a killer in the vote getting business.
Obama plans to spend $89m in Florida. He better get to it.....I still have only seen 2 Obama bumber stickers in Central Florida here. With the kind of buck going for him.......he should have 1/2 of the cars plastered with them.
Maybe it a Bushney conspriracy.......they made the Obama bumber stickers with invisible ink.....place them on the car and they get into the sunlight or wet.....and disappear.
Hi RW. We got over it. Well some did...I still get a little angry over the comment that some several 1000s election officials would conspire for GWB on this.
We collected all of our butterfly voting machines and sent them to Ireland to up grade them from the medival age casting stones they were using.
Great game shuffleboard. Amazing things you can do with a long stick and a flat disc and someone to shuffle on by as you do.
LOL....in the last 3 months ...know how many US strikes inside Pakistan and the Tribal areas along the border we have had? On base camps?
Just under 20
And Dude..........the Pakistani are not happy about it.
I told you Dude.....we had answers to this...Obama was and is clueless to them......
As for Obama's lead....the most recent poll out since the financial meltdowns.......has him all of 1 point in most the mid west states. And with McCain saying he would fire the SEC chairman.....and Obama saying it is a crazy idea to......Mr. No returns on the stage for the DEMs.
GWB says he has confidence in the guys. Now Obama is saying he has confidence in the guy.....and McCain is saying sack his tush.....who do you think that the American voter will identify with best? Which position shows change or reform here? Bingo....McCain beat him again.
I promised myself I woul dnot do this. But what the hey it is a quiet night here.
What do you want us to do with 69,000 foreign fighter we have cooling their heels in Iraq? Send them to Denmark? No, I suspect not.
Let them lose to organize terrorist cells? No I suspect not.
Keep them for a time.....and pressure Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria and Iran into negotiations? Now there is an idea.
By the way......they just tracked electronic that Iran has been buying and using middle men.....to Iran and then to Iraq in IEDs. We now have solid evidence to Iran arming militias, insurrectionists, and AlQeada of Iraq with IEDs. Iran order 12,000 of the electronics packages.
We just busted Iran as being a state sponsor of terrorism in Iraq.
If GWB wants to at this point......he has a preemptive reason to bomb the heck out of Iran, place boots on the ground there, or to put a naval blockade up around it.
We are three for three in the vector war fought in Iraq post 9/11 now. SADAM.......foreign fighters.....and now Iran
Fallingman....I am in Florida....have run voting princits as a clerk since the early 90s. This will be my 6th Presidential.
I know you will not believe this. But the GWB election win. Was conducted to the best process and standards we had at the time.
The difference was within a state mandtory recount of less 1/2 percent. The DEM (behind) were offered to recount every county in the state or any ones of choice.
They choose three predominately DEM counties that they thought the difference could have been made up in.
Those three counties were recounted by a inspectors of all three parties REP/DEM/IND....here comes into play the hanging chads. The computer card were punched by a little pin devices.....sometimes the piece of paper would hang. If so the computer reading them, would not read them. So they did a visual inspection of the ballot with hanging chads.After reviewing the ballots in these three contries....altering the vote by some 216 ....GWB still won the state by 560.
So where does stealing the election come into play? Give me one area that we could have done better or made it more fair?
Likely if you want....come to Florida on your next vacation.....and I will see if I can get you into the counties election offices that were recounted.....you can look at the nearly 200,000 ballots that were recounted.....and find where GWB stole it. They like still have them. Be my guest.
Accross the state, we have used a different method of voting for since then. Paper ballot trail with a scanning decive to read the marks. A very few counties in the country still use the butterfly computer cards of that time.
I know men and women that were in service during war time.....and were not stationed out of the country.
You logic is.....that if a country has a war......everyone in its military service is totally commited and engaged in it. Is so foolish. Did Russia send all of its military forces into Chechan, Georgia or Afghanistan? No of course not.....there were other military duties and responsiblities to be done elsewhere. Like taking care of the Topol-Ms that now target Europe.
Maybe we can have someone give the Clinton's a 3 AM phone calls. Just a practice one while they live at NBC. Just to see how they would handle it.
Matthews can be there with a camera crew.....as first Hillary nudges Bill to pick up the phone. Then Bill says to Hillary this is for you, Near to being the First Woman in the White House, darling of my life.
Hillary tell him thanks him and asks his to get a note pad to take dication and note with.
At this point Matthews is asking questions....like....Hillary what it a bout? Is it the Russians? The Chinese? The Terrorists? Iran?
Hillary listens to the phone for moment. Turns to Matthews.....and says.....no big deal......Obama decided to vet me for VP after Biden comments of me being a better VP canidate.:-)
The Clinton's are opening a Obama office in NBC headquarters New York City.
NO the media is fair and unbaised. OH my.......what a bag of dodo..... ............
The Clinton's on 24/7 NBC broadcasting. This should be fun.....at 3 AM to get a quote from Hillary with hair curlers......and from Bill at 6 AM with a stubble of a beard. I am really looking forward to this.
I can see Katie Couric now. Saying......
Sorry Hillary, I know it is early. But we need a quote on Sarah Palin ASAP.....she wants to go to Iraq and kick AlSdyar butt with a hockey stick.
Hillary.....yawning with a cup of coffee and in a robe and hair curlers. "What did you say Katie? Man why did I not think of that, instead of the sniper in Bosnia thing. Dang, she is sharp."
Bill coming us from behind.......in a robe and drinking coffee........
"Gee Katie, I fired cruise missiles at bin Laden and missed. Do you think that she will hit him?"
Katie...."I don't know...the lady seems pretty dedicated in doing it. She said she would place a hockey stick in AlSydar place where it does not shine, is one her reforms."
Hillary......"gesh, she said that? Man, she is good. She get the guys vote and the woman vote with that."
Bill......"Dang, maybe I should have tried hockey sticks on bin Laden."
Katie......well thanks for the quotes.....you don't mind if we take them out of context and combine them to make it better?"
Barak is talking chump change in saying that. McCain said he would give $5000 tax credit per family for health insurance. That is enough to allow every family in the country to get it own choosen health care program. Also he said congress needs to address pre existing conditions.....making them illegal to place on the policy to determine qualification or to increase rates on.
Barak is addressing only the needs of the union workers. McCain is addressing the needs of self employed, labor and small business with his $5000 tax credit for health care per family.
Would you agree that we are vetting these two tickets that are running for office right now? That Barak has a really thin resume'? That we have to look into his near time past to understand him?
I saying this a example of really bad judgement and shows that he fails to take the opporunity to make positive change when faced with a opportunity to do so.
The baby was aborted in the late 1/3 trimester.....and was alive.....a nurse took the child to utility room and tried to hide it....I call it a pre nup....maybe my term is wrong.....pre mature.....is the correct term. Sorry
Two leaders and 32 other billionaire, sitting around a pipeline pumping out crude, while the rest of the people in the country figure out to live on $200 per month per individual
First send in peacekeepers, that are suppose to keep the peace. That abett one of the sides, so that the rest of the Russian military can come into a small coutry and ethnic cleanse areas of it.
Everone gets a vote, except for the opposition parties, the people of Russia, the Parliment of Russia, the Military of Russia....which makes it to run an election in the country. Only two are voting.
Also......Barak fully knows who and what Sadam Hussien was then. When OReilly interviewed him.....Barak said......'Sadam was this very very bad man'....how in the world, does Barak think that this very very bad man was going to be removed from power? He does not say. /quote]
We as a country was much better off with Saddam in power. The war is a major factor in the fall of our economy. You can look through history and see how war brings on inflation. We get some government numbers that the war has cost X amount of money, but history has shown that its always a greater amount than the government lets on.
Our government loves to play both sides of the war. We give Israel money and weapons to bomb Lebanon and then we give Lebanon American taxpayer money to rebuild the homes and roads that we paid to bomb. What happens in nature when you take away a animals only predator? That animal will multiply and become a problem. Iraq was Irans natural predator, both sides drained money to protect themselves from each other. Now that Iraq is gone Iran can flourish. If you lo
Bin Laden's AlQeada is a composite organization of Sunni, Shia, Chechyan, Arab, and many other tribes and sects. OK? El Zharki the first leader of AlQeada in Iraq...got medical treatment for Afghan war wound in Iraq. Bin Laden eldest son, Saad got safe haven in Iran after Afghanistan fell.
The point I am making is that with that composition element, bin Laden after 9/11 was going to be able to get some support from Sadam for terrorism against the US or from Iran or Lybia or most any other Moslem country. His 70,000 trainees went to 40 different countries. Let us face that fact both had a common enemy in the US at that time. Given time and opportunity they would link up.
So I don't accept the with 'Sadam in power we were better off'.
Boy you go back a ways in history on the Iran issue. But OK. Iran and Iraq are natural enemies, agreed. Their war shows that. But look at the causes of the war carefully. The majority of that war was in the Basra border area where both have oil fields. The war was fought over the possession of those oil fields.
Whether Iran was a democracy, Shan run country or a Islamic revolutionary gov't that war was going to happen over those oil fields. Point being......these two got greedy in the world oil market....if one could bump the other out its oil fields.....it was wealth to the country. America did not start the war. We supported Sadam because we already knew that a Revolutionary Islamic Iran was bad news for us.
The last 25 years...since the embassy take over...I would say that Russia is a much bigger reason for what Iran is, than the US. Those 32 nuclear facilities inside Iran are not American designed and built, but Russian. There are only a few American companies that continue to do business inside Iran. Been that way since the UN security council sanctions (3 now) began. Russian trade with Iran is substantial.
Both side of a war.......well call us warriors and humaniarians at the sametime, I guess is another way of saying that. The old destroy em for the rebuild ems. Have we had mixed foreign policies in the past? Yes. But again, I think that is why you need McCain in the Presidency.
President Obama's flowery speech is going to be analysis in these foreign capitols. It leads to many definitions and intrepretations. E.G. mixed signals and mixed foreign policies. McCain's straight shooting starts to end that, in my mind. Foreign gov't are going to know where the line is.....and what happens if they cross it.
I think that you got this one wrong, Jim. Follow me some here.
How many of the REP canidates that were in the primaries....that were more to the right, more Christian conservative, more big business than McCain?
Huckabee, Romney, Thompson all fit the bill there. Yet the REP primary voters selected a mid road reformer. The REP voters were already moving to where McCain was....mid road and reform.
Leadership......is a mystical quality at times. We put a generals uniform on a man or woman....we say you are a leader. Then you get the leadership of the Major General at the Abu Grail prison. Or you get the leadership of General Peatris. Some have it, some don't.
You are right DEM and REP think and look at things differently. But that does not mean on certian issues....that there cannot be alot of agreement. It is those issues of division that keeps much from happening for the country....here there are the battles that neither like to compomise on.
I don't see McCain being a Abraham Lincoln figure. Nor do I see Obama as one either. To me, Lincoln is the model for Presidential Leadership. They both have a different skill set than Lincoln had. A different leadership style if you will. Which one is better for the next four years is a good question to ask.
I see us in some real foreign affairs issues. That involve military, commerce, human rights, and with Russia, Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan. To me, McCain's blunt leadership sytle works better here than the flowery style of Obama. I want a President for the next 4 years....that can make a decision and stick with it.....explain it bluntly and honestly....not play word games with Iran and Russia. I think that is the countries safest course.
A Obama commercial....here...Spoken by Parak himself......just gave me his definition of 'chnage'.
According to Senator Obama...."Change is a President that brings people together."
Yep that is the Obama definition of change.
So here is my thought and question. When Barak had the chance to vote with the majority on the Iraq war, and be part of keeping the country and people together. He did not. If he wins, why should he expect the REP to be part of keeping the country and people together?
Also......Barak fully knows who and what Sadam Hussien was then. When OReilly interviewed him.....Barak said......'Sadam was this very very bad man'....how in the world, does Barak think that this very very bad man was going to be removed from power? He does not say.
But back to my initial thought and question......any reason(s) for REPs to support a Obama administration?
A Obama commercial....here...Spoken by Parak himself......just gave me his definition of 'chnage'.
According to Senator Obama...."Change is a President that brings people together."
Yep that is the Obama definition of change.
So here is my thought and question. When Barak had the chance to vote with the majority on the Iraq war, and be part of keeping the country and people together. He did not. If he wins, why should he expect the REP to be part of keeping the country and people together?
Also......Barak fully knows who and what Sadam Hussien was then. When OReilly interviewed him.....Barak said......'Sadam was this very very bad man'....how in the world, does Barak think that this very very bad man was going to be removed from power? He does not say.
But back to my initial thought and question......any reason(s) for REPs to support a Obama administration?
I made the comment in a different thread that change = reform and reform = change......and asked if anyone could tell me the difference. But now that GWB has been brought into the equation.....I can see the difference.
With the Dem, we have change with out GWB With the Rep, we have reform with out GWB
So using my political equation skills......we have...........
Change - GWB = The Dems = Reform - GWB = The Rep
So? One thing all can agree...the next 4 years are going to be done without GWB. We are getting to a meeting of the minds of the two political parties and their tickets.
ttom500 Forum Posts (10,523)
RE: Whats the difference between Democrats and Republicans.
I remember a story from my Dad..post WWII...his company was a firm that sold coal....to homes and business.....and the drivers of the trucks...were being unionized in a few of the offices.They would get a contract to negotiate.....and he would look at it terms......and the drivers were getting less per hour......because of the fees and dues going to the union. So they (management) hold off signing the contract.
The union begins to follow the driver wives....to pick fights with the drivers in the bars......to harass them....to put pressure on the management to sign the contract. Eventually the drivers come to him,
asking him to sign the contract. My Dad says to them.....you guys are
going to lose money if we do...you will not make the wages you are now.
They say, yes we know.....but to get the Union off our back....please sign it.
Do management abuses occur? yes. So do union abuses.
The real problem with Union giving to political parties and canidates....is just what has been mentioned....the union members don't have much control to the amount, person, it goes to. Having said that I feel reform is needed here. I also think that reform is needed in corporate giving as well.
How can a firm that is going bankrupt like the Fannies were give money to both Obama and McCain? That is when you tighten the hatches and find out how to do more with less.....giving donation to canidates when you are in financial trouble and them might get a bailout, or gov't loan, or major gov't contract......has a lot of smell to it.