Just imagine being invited to the White House by the worse president in US history .......of course exactly as his dadda Bush to "Endorse" a plan made by the same disateress president to fix the same problems this GWB together with his administration and his rich friends have brought upon all americans and the rest of us as well
Such a shame even being "forced" to sit and talk with Bush about this major mess!
Bush should really truely resign and going to jail because of this mess, but still..... the man is just not "getting it"!
All of a sudden McCain is against "tortur"! Lol such a disgusting lie from this old ddue who actually votes YES to waterbording and I bet knows exactly about where the tortur industry of the Bushney,s is active night and day and even suggesting new methods of tortur I Bet!
"I looked at Putin,s eyes and saw danger and thre letters KGB".......Yeah right McCain that alone should do it!
Obama and the DEMs are endorsing GWB bailoout plan Dude. They are the one that are all for a big Gov't give away package that will ultimately cost each American $2800.
They kept the House REP out of the White House meeting .......which seems strange.....everyone comes out the meeting saying we have a 'deal'.....only the House REP are not onboard.
So the House REP comes with a alternative plan.....for private investment and Gov't loans to do the rescue of the economy.....save the taxpayer the $2800. And McCain was the leader in doing it.
If the package that come out written on Momday.....has McCain finger prints on it......with a refromed bill of private ent funding and Gov't loans.........mean McCain saved the countries financial crisis while Obama was in Oxford MS......wanting to debate.
Then comes to Oxford and if you believe the Pickens Poll data.....just kicked his tush in the debate.
My opinion on the skin kicking conest that is going on here.
Both WUW4 and Jvaski are correct. Note I didnot use the word 'right'.
JVASKI is correct that under the buck stops here theory that the crisis is happening under the REP watch of GWB.
WUW4 is correct that various REP attempted earlier to correct the elements of the crisis, but were effectively blocked by Congress. To get the support for legislation it need cross the aisle support from both parties.
Here is what you need to know about congress.
Most legislation needs groups from the opposition party to support piece of legislation and to make it happen. Congress for the last 4 years has more and more voted along party line. Hence the legislation that it has made has gotten thin in quality and in number.
So neither was coming across the aisleway to make legislation for the country. That is why it has a approval rating of 9% by the Americans.
Various people saw this on the horizon.....tried to get reform legislation on it and had it blocked.
Now you have a panic in DC, Wall Street, and in the financial institutions.....where everyone is trying to either hide, point the finger, or for a few....to control the situation and get something done on it.
That is the past tense history of the problem.
Now the debate need to be focused on the various proposals that are on the table. Because if we (the American people) continue to bombard our congress with simple anger over the situation....like this little shin kicking contest.....we are not going to get a good resolution of the crisis that anyone will agree to or to approve.
Congressmen are saying that they are getting thier phone system jammed with a high number of people with opinion on this. From one, I hear 9 of 10 are against the redo.....another is saying 5 of 10 are for it. These phone systems....hold 1000s of calls.
Newt Grinrich.....via his American Solution and a poll it did....said the American public supports gov't loans and credit lines more than it does gov't give aways.....75% to 25%. So my bet is that most of the calls to the congressmen are opposed to the redo with the $700b.
So financial crisis has put them into a real bind. They cannot see thier constiuenants supporting them in a election year. Yet they have banks failing in the country (WaMu just failed today with a buy out of Chase Morgan). Keep your heads....watch your bank's liquitidity. Maybe withdraw enough to keep for emergency.
This is going to workout......we have been in tougher situations than this.
Like the idea? We have had many of them over the time like that. They have included...using small nuc on the mountians of Afghanistan to get the Taliban and AlQeada there. Would save us from using ground forces and having casualities, would you not say?
But guys me like got them to drop the idea. Leaving a radioactive mountain of glass in Afghanistan, when we had conventional explosive that could do the samething....was not smart. But I don't think that either Amherdinejad or bin Laden have teh same restrain. Get nucs, they will use them.
Or placing a subs with nuc....offshore Venesula and Iran for fast strikes on them if and when they get nucs. And then begin to use them. They are there for fast strikes into the coutry. That one is still on the table. I suspect that it has or will be done.
We fully intend to defend ourselves with every method and ability and military technology we have or can make. If the world does not like that postion. Then devalue our dollar some more. But it is the responsiblity of any American President to defend the country and its people from events like 9/11.
If Europe, in its wisdom, wants to let Russian Armies or Iranian nuc to have free flight into them......that is your decision....simply have your leaders.....the same ones that backed the interceptor missile deal 100% and have kept NATO going for the last 50 years... end the relationship with the US.
But this accussation of war mongering gets old. Even Obama is going to make war this next four years. He is going to leave 65,000 in Iraq and redeploy forces to Afghanistan.
Follow me a little here. A Russian sub sitting 300 miles off the shore of the US.....can place nuc inside the country via cruise missile or ICBM within a 20-30 minute time frame. Just as our can do them.
So the proximity of ground bases systems to the border of a country is really over blown.
When the Cuban missile crisis went down....there was a tit for tat for on it. The Russian removed missiles from Cuba and the US stopped a future placement of missiles in Turkey. That was the tit for tat that Kurschev and Kennedy worked out.
But the other aspect in just as true. The Russian systems...mostly Topol-M are on mobile launchers....they can move to the Russian border for fast strikes into Europe. Without our Pershing in Germany, our forward deployment of nucs, we have few means to engage these forward launch sites that the Russian can have in say a 24-48 period of time. The Pershing and Topol-m can be sending missiles accross border on that same time frame as subs off shore.
In other words, we take the Pershings out.....we give the Topol-M free reign for quick strikes. This is one of the balances of terror that has been worked out in the cold war.
Ras finally the interceptor that we are going to place in Europe....all 10 or 12 of them....are purely defensive. They don't carry a nuc. They cannot stop a mass launching of the Russian Topol-M that number into the several 100s.
So? Russian pressure on Europe...like these spies in Chezch Rep regarding the interceptor....is purely for the benefit of Iran. Its coming nuc and to threaten Europe from Iran.
Now if we were to place 100 Pershing in Iraq and Afghanistan facing Iran......I would say that it is aggressive on our part. But OH what an idea.
I heard it.....was not gaff....was a bad attack. If the attack goes bad....they can turn and say....I made mistake in my wording, and apologize. No harm no foul so to speak.
Clue....listen to the 'tone' it is delivered in.....that will tell you if it is an attack or just a gaff. Gaffs are like Obama listick on a pig.....no malious or anger there. He was trying for some humor.....and got clobbered by the hockey Moms.
Alcee Hastings was a attack that went bad.....had malious in it.jmo
Then...follow what McCain and the conservative REP are saying then. The economic package needs to be a loan package. Not a give away. That Obama's poverty act of $875b to the UN Milliennium Project is a give away and an accessive thing of waste.
Obama proposes to give a lot of funds away thru the UN. That $875b per year had no limit to it......it was for an indefinite period of time. 1 year or 10 years....was at the discretion of the administration....Obama's discretion then if elected.
Shucks Indy, if she thinks she is wasting time talking with you. She would just totally ignore talking to me....that thinks GWB did the right thing going into Iraq.
But hey......nice for her to give opinion on what change is and why America needs it.
Now RW, just because McCain knows where the action is while Obama is cooling his heels in Oxford, MS......shows...........expereince? Oh yes.
I think that is the word to be used here.
RW a rule that military generals have in command......during a battle....is to go to where the gun fire is. All McCain did was go to where the noise was on this. He had the instincts to know where the place to be was.
That Obama left himself in Oxford and with a bad hand to play was his fault and his inexpereince.
Obama and the DEM had several months ago decided to make this about the economy. Even before the failures. They were campaigning on it.
Now you have a real financial crisis.......and they are showing their desire to fix things with a check and a $.....the easy way out.
McCain and the conservative REPs are asking for fiscal responsibility (loan package instead of give away) where Obama and the DEMs are not. As a tax payer, kind of nice to have that in Washington for a change? Yes?
John McCain just saved you $2800 dollar today, Ship
That is the what the average American will pay with a $700b economic redo package.
By switching the economic redo to a loan program...the firms that take are obligated to pay it back.
But the DEMs and Obama were all for the Gov't give away of $700b to firms that had failed, were with out transparency by the SEC, and if Obama is elected seem only to willing to do it again. That right the John McCain that made a fuss in the meeting and said it was not right, that it needed investigation, and tonight are making a counter proposal to making it a loan package.
So Ship.....how you going to spend your $2800 dollar next year? New car? Maybe some new furniture for the house? A cruise?
I like the idea of a commander in chief.....1/2 of the job of being President......that has some expereince with the military. Knowing say the difference between a F-22 and F-16....seems like a little detail.
But in the real world of military oper. it is a big difference. The F-22 is stealth.
I like a President that understands the potential cost of a military operation. McCain does....his 5 1/2 years in a POW camp says that.
I like that the idea that McCain has already develop relationship with countries and leaders that are being pressured by Russia. Shows he has forsight to where the next bullet is like to fly.
I like that the idea that McCain has been in the Senate for 22 years. Has worked across the aisle gaining consensus to major issues.
I like the idea that McCain has served his country with honor and intregrity.
Just heard the McCain skin cancer add. The GE and James Deanm Howard Dean brother.
Both my parents have this kind of skin cancer. I know maybe 10 elderly here in the Florida that do. They all have have it number for a number of years.
They are spinning on the danger of it. Once diagonst, and the person know that they have it.....they perform frequent checks of thier body.... looking for signs of it. So they catch it when the tumor is small. Go in and get it cut. No big deal except for some scars and pain in the healing process.
Sure am glad I did not get my CPA when I was in college and they would be coming to me to fix it for them.
McCaon jumbed 3 points in the polls....merely by going to Washington and being part of the process to resolve the financial crisis.
This accorinding the DEMS, is mere polical gimmtery......that the pace to be in Oxford. MS prepping for a debate with Obama.
Do the DEMs remember the open townhouses that McCain had where he had invited Obama to debate anytime, anyplace and anyway..... opps sorry those are Obamas words.
Payback is hard to chew sometime. It taste like old shoe leather.
There we go Solitare.......the 'entire concept of Europe includes Russia'. And 'we are all European'. How fashionable and so elitist. Sweet Jesus. The number of times Europe has sent armies into Russia and Russia has sent armies into Europe.....is how many?
LOL....you had the Romans, Moguls, the Tartars, the Germans WWI and WWII, the Red Army, the Csar Army, Napleon invasion of Russia...... just to mention a few times that Europe and Russia tried to include each other.
What difference if the interceptor were German/French build or American build? They do that same purpose yes? Just a different military contractor getting the work and the contract.
Do want our A-Bombs out of Germany, Solitare? Then the Russia Topol-Ms can target more on the US and UK. Thanks, Solitare you are quiet a guy. With friends like you, I know why our relationship is at times a rocky one.
Well who knows....maybe the next Administration.....will get them out for you. And you can proceed with the inclusion of Russia into Europe. Just a word of warning there......everytime Europe has gone into Russia.....Europe lost.
We got Ruskies...in Georgia.......we got Ruskies in Czeck Republic...... we got Ruskies in England....we got Ruskies in Poland......we got Ruskies in Lithunian.......
We got Ruskies here, there, everywhere.........give me some Ruskie remover.
So did someone say the cold war was over with?
Serious reply.
With our election going on.....you got to understand that this is the time that they will get active. We are in a state of transition, that they have known about for years. So every plan from the old KGB to the new Russian secret services has gotten a dust off and read for these months.
The US will soon enough be out of this phase of transition. The real question is does Europe want to address them? Even if the US is in transition?
....e.g. Europe says after the Georgian crisis.....lets us simply make them sit in the back row of the WTO and the G-8 meetings. Big deal. Cancell thier invite to NATO monthly meeting. Big deal.
Had Europe said.......hey peacekeepers are headed for Georgia and Georgia and the Ukriane are now admitted into NATO, then the Russians would have listened and not be willing to play spy games in the Czeck Republic.
Even if they have riots in the street of Prague.....over the deployment of the interceptor systems there. The US will do it. That is our commitment to Europe and to keep it from Iranian nucs in the future.
The simple fact is that with Putin and Medvedev, we got a new Russia. It is aggressive (Georgia). It is funded (oil). It is developing new military abilities (the Russian/Brazil joint stealth aircraft program).
All I say can now is.....do the Europeans still feel justified in the devaluation of the Dollar? Had the dollar not been devalued.....the United States would be in much better financial shape to aid Europe with a growing Russian threat. We might not be going thru these economic redos and restructurings.....and have our industry ready for a change over to military goods if need be. But at present, it is not.
The Russians know it. They know that we are stretched not just on man power to Iraq and Afghanistan.....but also stretched resources wise to meet threats in other places. That 20% devaluation of the US $, has hurt our ability to aid Europe in facing a Russian threat.
So? Maybe the EU and Europeans have brought some of this Russian interference on themselves. The far left in Europe degrade our administration and the gov't leaders of Europe say.....hey free speak....no slander there....and never press charges on them. What does that tell the Russians? That the NATO alliance is not as strong as should be. That European leaders are socialist in thier leansings.
That is the serious reply.
Welcome to the coming 2009-10 face off of national states with nuclear weapons. Lets hope we all live thru it. Because as sure as I am writing this and you are reading it...the next US Administration....being it McCain or Obama....is going to get tested by the Russians/Iranians/Venesulains/Terrorist.
Ah but every day it gets little more like good old USA, with mom's apple pie, hot rods, hot bikes, and hot ladies.
We stay there the 100 years that McCain is suggesting......Baghdad will have a McDonald and Dairy Quenn on every corner. They will be playing rock and roll music......and thinking about where to take thier next cruise with their oil money from the Iraqi Gov't.
Bill better take another look at the first Dude on Alaska.....before trying that. First Dude of Alaska did a 500 mile snowmobile race with a broken arm. LOL.....I would forsee one confused and conflicted former President after an encounter with the first Dude of Alaska.
Hey jlw...Pres. A can drive anyone into a rant. Imagine if Rev. Wright lived in Iran.....got up and did a anti Iran rant in his church. Think that he would get 20 years of practicing it and be able to retire to a 10000 square foot house with a credit line?
The first time Rev. Wright said......the Iranian chickens have come home to roost.......that would be endsville for the good Rev.
So 5 minute rants here on Pres. A and Iran are 100% OK
GWB invites both canidates and the bi partisan leadership to the White House.....for a little discussion of the economic redo........
Barak says I can clear my calendar for that.
I guess McCain's offer was not Presidential enough for Barak.
Though they had agreed in 'principle' to work together for a solution.
Seems like the American people are working a little 'in principle' together on this as well. The Senate and Congressional phone lines have been ringing constantly ....with most opposed.....to the $700b.
Which is going to put some running incumbant elected into some hot water this fall. If they support the bailout.......and the voters of thier district are against it.......time for a private practice out of state. If they vote against the bailout........and the businesses and banks in thier district begin to crash. ...time for a long holiday out of country.
They are really in no win situation.
Big day coming tomorrow. GWB, Barak Obama, John McCain....in a photo shot...shaking hands...and holding a check for $700b like a Puliser House prize check. We can have a fly over by F-16s......
With Iran President A. still in country......he might should be worried. The last time he was here.....he said that the GWB adminstration tried to kidnap him. With GWB, McCain and Obama in the same room.....think that his name might get dropped? Each to give an idea of how the Iranian nuclear crisis is a thorn in the country's side....that man that caused it is sitting in hotel room.
Three minds like that....after they find the pen and ink well for the $700b......might surely have a little time for President A. and Iran.
That Joe Biden..........there is a guy that understand the economy and American history......
In interview with Katie Curic......according to Joe.......FDR was president during the beginning the of the depression (1932).
Joe........a clue.......try Herbert Hoover.
Yep Joe.........I know just a little detail. Maybe you see the only people in the country as being....DEMs......and any REPs are automatic scratch out....FDR was a DEM and Hoover was a REP.
But come on, Joe. Really? Here we sit on a similar situation....facing a financial crisis.....and need some correct intrepretation of historical events of a like nature.......and FDR is flipped for Hoover?
Joe........far lefter's twist history like this. Joe please tell me that you are not going there? Please Joe Please.
At this point I feel like a certain cartoon character.......in Toon Town.
But hey Katie was nice to him. Polite and smiled. Even though she had to being doing stomache flips and wanting to scold him. Nice job, Katie. Keeping your cool while Joe is talking thru his.....
While one of the biggest financial issues in our countries history is being debated.....Barak Obama is Oxford MS...prepping for a debate that might only include one canidate....himself.
In Washington a $700b bailout package is being put together. McCain suspends his campaign to take part in the process and to lead ...there is a big word here.....lead the REP congressmen/woman in the issue.
Obama...says....I in daily contact with my staff and others in the congress...so I know what is going on. Let issues a joint press release between the two canidates.....and that will cover it. No big deal.
NO BIG DEAL! $700b is a very very big deal. It is 70 months of $10b per month in Iraq..... it is your next house and car....... it is a number of major questions and issues....such as do you give the funds to firms that bought the dust? do you place restrictions on them? do you restructure them?
By staying in Oxford, MS...Obama is not participating in any of this. He is not getting his hands dirty when we need leadership in Washington. He is yawning saying to himself...I got mine......$69.00 per internet donations adds up to millions.....and I got my books sales......while the economy does a implosion.
What McCain realizes.....is that GWB is a lame duck preisident right now. That the REPs are now looking to thier conidate to take the lead in this. Obama should have realized the same. But to Obama....... his campaign for President....that would not commence till January of 2009.....is more important than this economic issue.
You got it Trish.......politicians are always looking for someone else to fall on the sword for them. To say...here we did this......but this is my director....he was running the show. Here is the sword, Mr. Director, enjoy the fall.
Sorry Agman, GWB beat you to it. Just proposed salary limits to EXEC with troubled companies. Not sure what the terms are. Maybe loose a limo, a sectretary, three tennis games and a week of golf at the local club......but yes he has the proposal on the table.
Here is my question to all those then that feel Iran with nuks is a good and safe thing.
When that device goes off in a US or European city.....or even that Isreali city.....and there is a ground zero 20 times the size of 9/11. With radiation that will melt tires.
Are you going to join the teams that put on MOPP-4 Decom suits to go in and find survivors, injured and the dead? Here is the deal. You only have 30 minute time in one in a hot area before you begin to lose your fliters on your mask. So plan to be there a long, long time during the clean up.
Ship, if you were Truman looking at the estimates of the casualties for the invasion of Japan......think that you would give the order to use nucs? I could and would.
But if Iran was to use them for national defense.....that is one thing.
But
You read my post on President A and his religous beliefs......assume it solid info....it is peice together from several sources of long ago.... Then is not a defense of Iran for him.....is more.....religous fullfillment and the elimination of Isreal as a country that he seeks nucs.
Where is the threat to Iran, in either of those?
Isreal ever put a singles soldier, plane, rocket, or ship against Iranian interest or Iran itself? Nope.....all the Isreali wars have been with neighboring Moslem countries.
Iran sits behind this direct conflict of Palenstine and nation state face off with Isreal......stirs the pot with inflamatory comments with the resoucres of funding, explosives and weapons to the Moslem parties....and lets Jew, Palenstine, Lebanese, Jordian, Egyptian, Suadi die.
1000s on both side have. Ask yourself how many were Iranians?I bet it is less than a 100. But Iran get payments for those weapons and explosives to keep it going. The longer it does....the more money for Iran.
So in Isreal, Iran has a party that stirs anger in the Moslem world. They know that if they say Isreal is the blot or a cesspool (use your own word of discription) in the middle east.....every radical cleric and Islamic militia leader in the region....is in their pocket and will give support.
Yet Iran itself, until this Isreali air shortie to Greece was done.....has not been directly engaged or threatened by the Isrealis. Isreal showed a military ability there with the shortie. And if Isreal wanted Iran history....back to the stone age...it could easily have done it by now.
If I was a Moslem and middle eastern.....I would be angered at Iran and Pres. A. for keeping this conflict going. When they are nearly 1000 miles apart. 1000 miles is the distance from Isreal to Iran. Unless Pan Islam gets widely accepted.....Iran does not have an interest in the Med. So why missiles to reach Isreal? Why press for nuc? Self defense Ship? Or a first strike ability?
Iran's new missile....is suppose to be stealthy....radar avoiding. If it is, then it is a first strike weapon.
ttom500 Forum Posts (10,523)
RE: Obama for President.............A clear soloution is prosperity and peace!!!
Just imagine being invited to the White House by the worse president in US history .......of course exactly as his dadda Bush to "Endorse" a plan made by the same disateress president to fix the same problems this GWB together with his administration and his rich friends have brought upon all americans and the rest of us as wellSuch a shame even being "forced" to sit and talk with Bush about this major mess!
Bush should really truely resign and going to jail because of this mess, but still..... the man is just not "getting it"!
All of a sudden McCain is against "tortur"! Lol such a disgusting lie from this old ddue who actually votes YES to waterbording and I bet knows exactly about where the tortur industry of the Bushney,s is active night and day and even suggesting new methods of tortur I Bet!
"I looked at Putin,s eyes and saw danger and thre letters KGB".......Yeah right McCain that alone should do it!
Obama and the DEMs are endorsing GWB bailoout plan Dude. They are the one that are all for a big Gov't give away package that will
ultimately cost each American $2800.
They kept the House REP out of the White House meeting .......which seems strange.....everyone comes out the meeting saying we have a
'deal'.....only the House REP are not onboard.
So the House REP comes with a alternative plan.....for private investment and Gov't loans to do the rescue of the economy.....save
the taxpayer the $2800. And McCain was the leader in doing it.
If the package that come out written on Momday.....has McCain finger prints on it......with a refromed bill of private ent funding and Gov't loans.........mean McCain saved the countries financial crisis while Obama was in Oxford MS......wanting to debate.
Then comes to Oxford and if you believe the Pickens Poll data.....just kicked his tush in the debate.