Obama and Illegal Immigration (270)
bittersweet28467: You and I both KNOW that is BS How many black and white people are they going to be pulling over to "check" their status? They will be targeting people who appear to be hispanic, just like they are now with the non renewal of the driver's licenses. I have plenty of Puerto Rican friends who have been treated like crap because they speak Spanish and appear to maybe be "Mexican"... What's really pathetic is that a majority of Americans (the ones who work in the DMV offices, etc.) aren't even aware that Puerto Ricans are American citizens.
All means all. Not BS.
We cannot pick and choose which laws to follow. And their status will be checked only if you are caught doing something wrong.
You or I will get pulled over also, if we are driving, and do not follow the law.. Go thru a traffic light on red and you will get pulled over. The first thing a cop will ask for is your drivers license and registration. White, Black, REd and any other color you can think of.
They are not talking about check points.You can call it BS, but you are assuming what the outcome will be. You are ASSUMING there will be racial profiling.
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bittersweet28467: WE all know they weren't kept in the US... It doesn't matter if they are STORED here if WE are behind it. Personally it makes me sick that my tax dollars would go to such practices.
Tax dollars and corrupt politics...... We might be able to agree on something.
So what is wrong with immigrants coming her legally.
OUr system can only absorb so much before it collapses.\
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jvaski: Hmmmm....Everyone I know who voyed for him are fairly pleased with his performance so far and would vote him in second term .
I beleive that's what's gonna happen ....
I beleive that's what's gonna happen ....
You are pleased with Obama.
His poll numbers are dropping like a rock.
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texasgirl8585: He was elected by duped Americans who are waking up big time now to buyers remorse.
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ttom500: Read the AZ law...'all arrested and detained will have their residence status checked'.
All means.....whites, blacks, hispanics, orientals, indians......space aliens that broke the speed laws for entering the AZ atmosphere.
All means.....whites, blacks, hispanics, orientals, indians......space aliens that broke the speed laws for entering the AZ atmosphere.
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moonmana1: All means all. Not BS.
We cannot pick and choose which laws to follow. And their status will be checked only if you are caught doing something wrong.
You or I will get pulled over also, if we are driving, and do not follow the law.. Go thru a traffic light on red and you will get pulled over. The first thing a cop will ask for is your drivers license and registration. White, Black, REd and any other color you can think of.
They are not talking about check points.You can call it BS, but you are assuming what the outcome will be. You are ASSUMING there will be racial profiling.
We cannot pick and choose which laws to follow. And their status will be checked only if you are caught doing something wrong.
You or I will get pulled over also, if we are driving, and do not follow the law.. Go thru a traffic light on red and you will get pulled over. The first thing a cop will ask for is your drivers license and registration. White, Black, REd and any other color you can think of.
They are not talking about check points.You can call it BS, but you are assuming what the outcome will be. You are ASSUMING there will be racial profiling.
I KNOW FOR A FACT that the law that passed recently to keep them from getting driver's licenses has led to racial profiling so why not this? I think it has been proven time and time again that you don't have to be doing anything wrong to be profiled, just look right. Any excuse can be made as to why someone was pulled over, license plate light out... music too loud... etc.
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moonmana1: Tax dollars and corrupt politics...... We might be able to agree on something.
So what is wrong with immigrants coming her legally.
OUr system can only absorb so much before it collapses.\
So what is wrong with immigrants coming her legally.
OUr system can only absorb so much before it collapses.\
Nothing is wrong with that. The problem is that there are people here who have been here for generations illegally who now have citizen offspring. What do we do with all those families who have american born children but the parents are illegal? Personally I'd like to be able to go anywhere in the world I want any time I want.
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bittersweet28467: Nothing is wrong with that. The problem is that there are people here who have been here for generations illegally who now have citizen offspring. What do we do with all those families who have american born children but the parents are illegal? Personally I'd like to be able to go anywhere in the world I want any time I want.
Nice thought but is not reality.
As far as the illegals that are here, 24 million people question.
Is it fair to give them amnesty when there are many, many Mexicans who came here legally and adhered the law?
If you tried this in any other country, what do you think your status would be.. and where would you end up if you were caught?
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bittersweet28467: You and I both KNOW that is BS How many black and white people are they going to be pulling over to "check" their status? They will be targeting people who appear to be hispanic, just like they are now with the non renewal of the driver's licenses. I have plenty of Puerto Rican friends who have been treated like crap because they speak Spanish and appear to maybe be "Mexican"... What's really pathetic is that a majority of Americans (the ones who work in the DMV offices, etc.) aren't even aware that Puerto Ricans are American citizens.
How do you KNOW it is BS ..unless you enact the law and see how it is enforced?
It take all off five minute to do a resident status check on the FBI'S NCIS system. The I stand for INSTANT in National Crime Instant System. It is all done by computers.
How long does it take for customs to process your passport for reentry into the country? SAme deal.
See there is no real 'lost of liberty' here that is of meaningful amount of amount of time. And if ALL are being status checked, no racial profiling is done or race bias occurs.
And who says that AZ law enforcement will not be professional in their legal duties on enforcing the law?
Here in Florida....they just discovered that massive document scamm occurred in Peurto Rico earlier. On forged birth certificates. They are making every Puerto Rican in the entire state get redocumented.
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ttom500: How do you KNOW it is BS ..unless you enact the law and see how it is enforced?
It take all off five minute to do a resident status check on the FBI'S NCIS system. The I stand for INSTANT in National Crime Instant System. It is all done by computers.
How long does it take for customs to process your passport for reentry into the country? SAme deal.
See there is no real 'lost of liberty' here that is of meaningful amount of amount of time. And if ALL are being status checked, no racial profiling is done or race bias occurs.
And who says that AZ law enforcement will not be professional in their legal duties on enforcing the law?
Here in Florida....they just discovered that massive document scamm occurred in Peurto Rico earlier. On forged birth certificates. They are making every Puerto Rican in the entire state get redocumented.
It take all off five minute to do a resident status check on the FBI'S NCIS system. The I stand for INSTANT in National Crime Instant System. It is all done by computers.
How long does it take for customs to process your passport for reentry into the country? SAme deal.
See there is no real 'lost of liberty' here that is of meaningful amount of amount of time. And if ALL are being status checked, no racial profiling is done or race bias occurs.
And who says that AZ law enforcement will not be professional in their legal duties on enforcing the law?
Here in Florida....they just discovered that massive document scamm occurred in Peurto Rico earlier. On forged birth certificates. They are making every Puerto Rican in the entire state get redocumented.
And who says that AZ law enforcement will not be professional in their legal duties on enforcing the law?
Good point.. Any other thought is just an assumption til proven wrong.
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Prior history shows that law enforcement does profile. History is usually a good predictor of the future. I don't know what other countries do about their immigration... Nobody answered the question - what about the illegals who have American children now?
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ttom500: Just maybe GWB had other problem going on? And did complete 1/2 of the border fence. If Obama sends all 12 million illegals out of the country, ow does he propose to keep them out?
Comprehensive immigration reform will not do it....when many are being used as drug mules. Illegally border crossing is needed for the drug trafficking.
Comprehensive immigration reform will not do it....when many are being used as drug mules. Illegally border crossing is needed for the drug trafficking.
So why is it an acceptable answer for GWB to have other problems going on and not Obama? If I go with your logic, I could say that Obama has other things going on as well!
At least he is actually doing something by deporting the illegals! Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse (TRAC), a data gathering, data research and data distribution organization at Syracuse University, has reported that at the end of March 2010 there were 242,776 unresolved immigration court cases, a new all-time high. The immigration court backlog is growing by 6.3 percent since TRAC’s last report at the end of 2009. This number is 30.4% higher than it was 18 months ago prior to Obama's election. Which means that the administration is trying to get the illegals out and there are so many that the court dockets are overflowing!
The ports and borders were left wide open well before Obama even ran for office, it even started before Bush. But to tack it all on Obama as if he's responsible and not making an effort is nonsense.
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bittersweet28467: WE all know they weren't kept in the US... It doesn't matter if they are STORED here if WE are behind it. Personally it makes me sick that my tax dollars would go to such practices.
Have any idea of the time that redinition saved American lives? Why redinition was used?
Here is the why.
When we placed them together in GITMO or other lock down facilities. They clammed up. Stopped talking to us. Why? Because a hard nose leader would instill loyality into the group.
Read "Inside the Wire" by former SSGT Saar. He was a translator
at GITMO. As in all groups of men or women, the leaders would influence the followers. If the leader wanted to stop communication, he shut them all down. SSGT Saar is not any GITMO supporter. He makes a number of hard criticisms. But he is pretty clear about this leadership relationship within the camp.
Redenition kept them separated and isolated. Kept them off balance. They were forced to live off the guards, translators and interviewers. They had to communicate with them. In the two way communication they got information from them
Now I don't know if this guys claims of torture is true. If he has evidence...then let him bring it to a legal court for review. If the the court decides it is solid case then fine.
But I got a gut level feeling that the US would not take a suspected terrorist to Syria for interrogation....when Syria has a signed a mutual bilotoral defense agreement with Iran for the last 6-7 years. But if you want to believe that the US would take a suspected terrorist to Syria for interrogation....when every word he said was heading to Iran.....be my guest.
By the way....as a American citizen.....you have responsibility for your life and a responsiblity to other Americans. "We the People of the United State" as in the Constitution defines us as a unique group of people and not loyal to other countries or nations of the world.
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bittersweet28467: All except for two problems well make that 3
1. The people who have lived here since they were children and have no place to "go back to" in Mexico or whatever country they are from (as many latin immigrants are actually from central america and assumed to be mexican because they are brown)
2. The people who were born here but their parents are not citizens.
3. The people who do work, their income taxes collected and then never returned because they are using some other SSN to work under. All that tax money just sits there, FICA, unemployment and will never ever be collected by the worker. Plus those people contribute to the economy as described earlier.
What would you do if you were mexican, central american, etc. and you saw a better life for your family and children just down the road?
People liked them when they were coming here to do jobs no one wanted, then when they started taking the good jobs and doing good work for less money people started getting upset.
It's a complicated situation. I wish that we could just have one world and have the same standards for every country but unfortunately it's not that way.
Before I start, please know that I am not a Republican. And not all Independents, Democrats, etc... are so liberal minded about immigration, either. Consider this-- years ago I worked for two solid years so that upon graduating from high school I could move to Australia. At that time it was relatively easy, though not simple. I did every thing the Consulate General said--I had a willing host family, job leads, start up money of my own, a return fare should anything go wrong, and I was young, intelligent, etc... During my last month of high school, I got a letter from the Consulate General stating that they would not provide a work visa under any circumstances, and though I was free to make the trip to Australia, if I were to seek work I would be arrested and immediately put in jail, and sent back. Now, if the rest of the world adheres to immigration law, and as a side comment, the United States doesn't allow British, French, etc... citizens to disregard immigration law, so why should we allow any other? The rules are the rules. Why is this concept so difficult to understand? It isn't being prejudiced to obey and expect others to obey the law. And I AGREE with the U.S. citizens who get upset over good jobs being taken at a lesser rate. Our economy is based on education and skill, and our mode of life is balanced against what is fair in business and trade. What would YOU say if your employer came up to you and said,,"I know you've worked here for 15 years and are up to 18.00 an hour, but Pedro* here is quite capable of doing your job for 8.50 an hour, so if you want to keep your job then you'll take 8.50". Please don't be idiotic enough to think anyone would believe you if you said you'd be all right with that. 1. The people who have lived here since they were children and have no place to "go back to" in Mexico or whatever country they are from (as many latin immigrants are actually from central america and assumed to be mexican because they are brown)
2. The people who were born here but their parents are not citizens.
3. The people who do work, their income taxes collected and then never returned because they are using some other SSN to work under. All that tax money just sits there, FICA, unemployment and will never ever be collected by the worker. Plus those people contribute to the economy as described earlier.
What would you do if you were mexican, central american, etc. and you saw a better life for your family and children just down the road?
People liked them when they were coming here to do jobs no one wanted, then when they started taking the good jobs and doing good work for less money people started getting upset.
It's a complicated situation. I wish that we could just have one world and have the same standards for every country but unfortunately it's not that way.
*a fictitious name having no relation to any one person.
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ttom500: Have any idea of the time that redinition saved American lives? Why redinition was used?
Here is the why.
When we placed them together in GITMO or other lock down facilities. They clammed up. Stopped talking to us. Why? Because a hard nose leader would instill loyality into the group.
Read "Inside the Wire" by former SSGT Saar. He was a translator
at GITMO. As in all groups of men or women, the leaders would influence the followers. If the leader wanted to stop communication, he shut them all down. SSGT Saar is not any GITMO supporter. He makes a number of hard criticisms. But he is pretty clear about this leadership relationship within the camp.
Redenition kept them separated and isolated. Kept them off balance. They were forced to live off the guards, translators and interviewers. They had to communicate with them. In the two way communication they got information from them
Now I don't know if this guys claims of torture is true. If he has evidence...then let him bring it to a legal court for review. If the the court decides it is solid case then fine.
But I got a gut level feeling that the US would not take a suspected terrorist to Syria for interrogation....when Syria has a signed a mutual bilotoral defense agreement with Iran for the last 6-7 years. But if you want to believe that the US would take a suspected terrorist to Syria for interrogation....when every word he said was heading to Iran.....be my guest.
By the way....as a American citizen.....you have responsibility for your life and a responsiblity to other Americans. "We the People of the United State" as in the Constitution defines us as a unique group of people and not loyal to other countries or nations of the world.
How does he know he was in Syria?Here is the why.
When we placed them together in GITMO or other lock down facilities. They clammed up. Stopped talking to us. Why? Because a hard nose leader would instill loyality into the group.
Read "Inside the Wire" by former SSGT Saar. He was a translator
at GITMO. As in all groups of men or women, the leaders would influence the followers. If the leader wanted to stop communication, he shut them all down. SSGT Saar is not any GITMO supporter. He makes a number of hard criticisms. But he is pretty clear about this leadership relationship within the camp.
Redenition kept them separated and isolated. Kept them off balance. They were forced to live off the guards, translators and interviewers. They had to communicate with them. In the two way communication they got information from them
Now I don't know if this guys claims of torture is true. If he has evidence...then let him bring it to a legal court for review. If the the court decides it is solid case then fine.
But I got a gut level feeling that the US would not take a suspected terrorist to Syria for interrogation....when Syria has a signed a mutual bilotoral defense agreement with Iran for the last 6-7 years. But if you want to believe that the US would take a suspected terrorist to Syria for interrogation....when every word he said was heading to Iran.....be my guest.
By the way....as a American citizen.....you have responsibility for your life and a responsiblity to other Americans. "We the People of the United State" as in the Constitution defines us as a unique group of people and not loyal to other countries or nations of the world.
Could have been locked up across Kennedy International with Syrian-Speaking Guards for all we know!
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ttom500: Have any idea of the time that redinition saved American lives? Why redinition was used?
Here is the why.
When we placed them together in GITMO or other lock down facilities. They clammed up. Stopped talking to us. Why? Because a hard nose leader would instill loyality into the group.
Read "Inside the Wire" by former SSGT Saar. He was a translator
at GITMO. As in all groups of men or women, the leaders would influence the followers. If the leader wanted to stop communication, he shut them all down. SSGT Saar is not any GITMO supporter. He makes a number of hard criticisms. But he is pretty clear about this leadership relationship within the camp.
Redenition kept them separated and isolated. Kept them off balance. They were forced to live off the guards, translators and interviewers. They had to communicate with them. In the two way communication they got information from them
Now I don't know if this guys claims of torture is true. If he has evidence...then let him bring it to a legal court for review. If the the court decides it is solid case then fine.
But I got a gut level feeling that the US would not take a suspected terrorist to Syria for interrogation....when Syria has a signed a mutual bilotoral defense agreement with Iran for the last 6-7 years. But if you want to believe that the US would take a suspected terrorist to Syria for interrogation....when every word he said was heading to Iran.....be my guest.
By the way....as a American citizen.....you have responsibility for your life and a responsiblity to other Americans. "We the People of the United State" as in the Constitution defines us as a unique group of people and not loyal to other countries or nations of the world.
Here is the why.
When we placed them together in GITMO or other lock down facilities. They clammed up. Stopped talking to us. Why? Because a hard nose leader would instill loyality into the group.
Read "Inside the Wire" by former SSGT Saar. He was a translator
at GITMO. As in all groups of men or women, the leaders would influence the followers. If the leader wanted to stop communication, he shut them all down. SSGT Saar is not any GITMO supporter. He makes a number of hard criticisms. But he is pretty clear about this leadership relationship within the camp.
Redenition kept them separated and isolated. Kept them off balance. They were forced to live off the guards, translators and interviewers. They had to communicate with them. In the two way communication they got information from them
Now I don't know if this guys claims of torture is true. If he has evidence...then let him bring it to a legal court for review. If the the court decides it is solid case then fine.
But I got a gut level feeling that the US would not take a suspected terrorist to Syria for interrogation....when Syria has a signed a mutual bilotoral defense agreement with Iran for the last 6-7 years. But if you want to believe that the US would take a suspected terrorist to Syria for interrogation....when every word he said was heading to Iran.....be my guest.
By the way....as a American citizen.....you have responsibility for your life and a responsiblity to other Americans. "We the People of the United State" as in the Constitution defines us as a unique group of people and not loyal to other countries or nations of the world.
And so that makes it ok to rip people away from their lives and torture them? If that is America then I guess I am UnAmerican. My responsibility is to try to live the best life that I can and not hurt anyone else along the way. When I support (through my vote or my money) the kidnapping and/or torture of individuals...that is not "loyalty" that is just wrong under any definition. I think it's pretty sick to do cruel, inhumane things to other human beings and try to hide behind a flag or a religion. THERE IS NO EXCUSE!!!!
FYI he did bring it to court However, on November 2, 2009 the Second Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that victims of extraordinary rendition cannot sue Washington for torture suffered overseas, because Congress has not authorized such lawsuits, in ruling on Canadian citizen Maher Arar’s case.
On November 4, 2009, an Italian judge convicted 22 suspected or known CIA agents, a U.S. Air Force (USAF) colonel and two Italian secret agents of the kidnap, delivering the first legal convictions in the world against people involved in the CIA's extraordinary renditions program.
Two days after President Barack Obama was sworn into office, on January 22, 2009, he signed an executive order entitled Ensuring Lawful Interrogations.
HUMAN RIGHTS SHOULD COME BEFORE NATIONAL RIGHTS EVERY TIME.
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bittersweet28467: Prior history shows that law enforcement does profile. History is usually a good predictor of the future. I don't know what other countries do about their immigration... Nobody answered the question - what about the illegals who have American children now?
It is actually written in the law that the police cannot profile.
They need reasonable suspicion to check on nay persons status.
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rohaan: Before I start, please know that I am not a Republican. And not all Independents, Democrats, etc... are so liberal minded about immigration, either. Consider this-- years ago I worked for two solid years so that upon graduating from high school I could move to Australia. At that time it was relatively easy, though not simple. I did every thing the Consulate General said--I had a willing host family, job leads, start up money of my own, a return fare should anything go wrong, and I was young, intelligent, etc... During my last month of high school, I got a letter from the Consulate General stating that they would not provide a work visa under any circumstances, and though I was free to make the trip to Australia, if I were to seek work I would be arrested and immediately put in jail, and sent back. Now, if the rest of the world adheres to immigration law, and as a side comment, the United States doesn't allow British, French, etc... citizens to disregard immigration law, so why should we allow any other? The rules are the rules. Why is this concept so difficult to understand? It isn't being prejudiced to obey and expect others to obey the law. And I AGREE with the U.S. citizens who get upset over good jobs being taken at a lesser rate. Our economy is based on education and skill, and our mode of life is balanced against what is fair in business and trade. What would YOU say if your employer came up to you and said,,"I know you've worked here for 15 years and are up to 18.00 an hour, but Pedro* here is quite capable of doing your job for 8.50 an hour, so if you want to keep your job then you'll take 8.50". Please don't be idiotic enough to think anyone would believe you if you said you'd be all right with that. *a fictitious name having no relation to any one person.
No, of course I would not be fine with that. I understand the other side of the coin, believe me. I see both sides and a large part of the problem is that little American citizens are being born to Pedro every day. So what do we do with that? If I decided I was going to fly to Australia while I was 9 months pregnant and I had a little Aussie baby, that baby would be entitled to all the rights of every other Australian citizen. Would they then deport me if I chose to rais my little Aussie in his/her homeland?
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moonmana1: It is actually written in the law that the police cannot profile.
They need reasonable suspicion to check on nay persons status.
They need reasonable suspicion to check on nay persons status.
Yes and they follow that too right?
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This is why there is supposed to be a quota on the number of LEGAL immigrants our country can absorb every year.