Libya - Latest Updates (926)
UNBELIEVABLE! According to AFP reports, 105 Canadians have been left stranded at Tripoli airport for a ridiculous reason. Seems that a chartered flight arranged by the Canadian foreign ministry was refused cover by a private insurance company on the grounds of increasing lack of security and escalations. Due to this the flight could not be operated.
Lynn Meahan, spokeswoman for Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon, told AFP "we're now looking to work with our partners on other options" which apparently include plans to send a Canadian military C-17 transport aircraft which is now in Germany.
Lynn Meahan, spokeswoman for Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon, told AFP "we're now looking to work with our partners on other options" which apparently include plans to send a Canadian military C-17 transport aircraft which is now in Germany.
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zeus911: Hi all, i've been quiet for the last couple of hours as I went to both the airport and harbour to personally confirm some updates I have been posting.
From the airport I can confirm that there sure is an abnormal hub of activity with various planes landing and taking off every few minutes. Amongst the civilian passenger airlines an unusual amount of small executive-style jets were both coming and going. One particular one had Italian markings but most others were unmarked, possibly carrying foreign high-ranking officials who are coming over to monitor or coordinate the evacuation process. Also noted one small military reconnaissance style craft landing.
The harbour visit proved this morning's update about the Italian and French navy frigates which are both still here. The fact that both ships are still at harbour is not very good news as they are most likely at port to shelter from the bad weather conditions I reported this morning. The good news is that the strong winds have now calmed down and the open sea beyond harbour looked decidedly less agitated than the over 2m high waves of this morning. However the sea swell takes much longer than the air currents to settle so it may still be difficult for the Catamarans with the American citizens aboard to leave Tripoli this evening.
While the Catamarans have reported that the situation in the Libyan harbour is relatively calm, one has to keep in mind that prolonged waiting can cause a food and water shortage for all aboard.
From the airport I can confirm that there sure is an abnormal hub of activity with various planes landing and taking off every few minutes. Amongst the civilian passenger airlines an unusual amount of small executive-style jets were both coming and going. One particular one had Italian markings but most others were unmarked, possibly carrying foreign high-ranking officials who are coming over to monitor or coordinate the evacuation process. Also noted one small military reconnaissance style craft landing.
The harbour visit proved this morning's update about the Italian and French navy frigates which are both still here. The fact that both ships are still at harbour is not very good news as they are most likely at port to shelter from the bad weather conditions I reported this morning. The good news is that the strong winds have now calmed down and the open sea beyond harbour looked decidedly less agitated than the over 2m high waves of this morning. However the sea swell takes much longer than the air currents to settle so it may still be difficult for the Catamarans with the American citizens aboard to leave Tripoli this evening.
While the Catamarans have reported that the situation in the Libyan harbour is relatively calm, one has to keep in mind that prolonged waiting can cause a food and water shortage for all aboard.
Thank you for all the updates Zeus
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Buffy327: Oh please, read the rules...and for once take something a little serious...
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zeus911: UNBELIEVABLE! According to AFP reports, 105 Canadians have been left stranded at Tripoli airport for a ridiculous reason. Seems that a chartered flight arranged by the Canadian foreign ministry was refused cover by a private insurance company on the grounds of increasing lack of security and escalations. Due to this the flight could not be operated.
Lynn Meahan, spokeswoman for Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon, told AFP "we're now looking to work with our partners on other options" which apparently include plans to send a Canadian military C-17 transport aircraft which is now in Germany.
Lynn Meahan, spokeswoman for Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon, told AFP "we're now looking to work with our partners on other options" which apparently include plans to send a Canadian military C-17 transport aircraft which is now in Germany.
Zues that is a pretty common insurance clause in Commercial air operation insurance policy. They don't want to pay for war damage/loses claims on a multi million dollar aircraft.
They provide accident insurance not war time insurance. So have restrictions to the were the aircraft can operate.
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ttom500: You may have a lot of Libyan military equipment coming your way to Malta.
Simple take the tires off. That safe guards them from be stolen.
You can demilitarized the aircraft and then give it back. Harmless untill they get maintenance to make them military again.
But there is a international legal process that you need to go thru.
The US Military Manual on demilitary weapons is
DoD 4160.21-M-1
You also have a legal problem that the Equipment is Libyan gov't owned. So they would win in a legal contest to get it back in the courts.
Malta can demilitarize his equipment. And they can hold it. It will cost him time, money and manpower to put them back into working order. All of which he has very little of.
These will give you a overview of Malta's legal ability to do this under International laws and the Geneva Conventions.
This on holding foreign military equipment being used in a conflict to a "people's right to self determination."
Also I advise contacting the
ICRC (International Committee of the Red Cross)
The ICRC can determine Libya to be in a conflict of 'people's right to self determination'. Malta will need some international party to make that determination. For the Geneva conventions and international laws to kick in.
Lastly, you need Maltese Ministry of Justice legal briefs to support the acts of demilitarizing and holding of Libyan military equipment.
If I think of more will pass it on here. Libyan Government attroney's will soon be pressing for the equipments return. So get your legal ducks in row. I hope it helps.
Great tips ttom, though it certainly seems a complicated process. Also I'm not sure about the status of the pilots. I have come across sources which stated that they cannot request political asylum since they are members of the military. What do you think?Simple take the tires off. That safe guards them from be stolen.
You can demilitarized the aircraft and then give it back. Harmless untill they get maintenance to make them military again.
But there is a international legal process that you need to go thru.
The US Military Manual on demilitary weapons is
DoD 4160.21-M-1
You also have a legal problem that the Equipment is Libyan gov't owned. So they would win in a legal contest to get it back in the courts.
Malta can demilitarize his equipment. And they can hold it. It will cost him time, money and manpower to put them back into working order. All of which he has very little of.
These will give you a overview of Malta's legal ability to do this under International laws and the Geneva Conventions.
This on holding foreign military equipment being used in a conflict to a "people's right to self determination."
Also I advise contacting the
ICRC (International Committee of the Red Cross)
The ICRC can determine Libya to be in a conflict of 'people's right to self determination'. Malta will need some international party to make that determination. For the Geneva conventions and international laws to kick in.
Lastly, you need Maltese Ministry of Justice legal briefs to support the acts of demilitarizing and holding of Libyan military equipment.
If I think of more will pass it on here. Libyan Government attroney's will soon be pressing for the equipments return. So get your legal ducks in row. I hope it helps.
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Then was a matter of pride for the Libyans, today is a matter of freedom for them,am sure they welcome the west's internvention with open arms.
zeus911: You may be right Chris but we should not underestimate the impact that the U.S. armed strike on Tripoli way back in 1986 may have had on the population. Sometimes grudges take quite some time to pass especially when they hit the pride of a nation.
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zeus911: Some more news: I'm refraining from most updates re fighting as some of you have already done a good job of that, so I'm just adding a few titbits you may have missed...
For one it appears that following various anti-Gaddafi declarations in France by one his top ex-aide and protocol chief, Nuri el-Mismari, Gaddafi’s men have abducted his two daughters and forced them to publicly denounce their father and his declarations on Libyan public TV. The 2 daughters ae reportedly still in the hands of Muammar Gaddafi’s men.
In a press release this morning Aisha Gaddafi (Gaddafi's daughter) has categorically denied having been aboard the Libyan plane turned away from Malta after being refused landing yesterday afternoon. For that matter so did the Maltese authorities. Frankly I tend to disbelieve both...
Traveller's reaching Malta from Tripoli today have reported that soldiers and police are stopping and searching outgoing passengers in search of any printed or electronic evidence of violence and happenings in these days. Camera's aand mobile phones are being particularly targeted. Notwithstanding this I am just now watching horrendous scenes of extreme violence and fighting with fires, shooting and explosions clearly heard on Italian TV News channels.
Following this evening's Gaddafi's televised second speech which he delivered telphonically, two basic things have been pointed out: one that his tone is less drastic and more conciliatory than the previous rant (coming from him), and secondly a comparison of both recordings is raising doubts as to whether it was actually his voice, if not this could mean a lot of things. However I'm not giving the last news much weight as this is pretty normal and expected as nearly always happens on each of Obama's recorded messages - presumably such doubts are more due to wishful thinking than actual reality!
For one it appears that following various anti-Gaddafi declarations in France by one his top ex-aide and protocol chief, Nuri el-Mismari, Gaddafi’s men have abducted his two daughters and forced them to publicly denounce their father and his declarations on Libyan public TV. The 2 daughters ae reportedly still in the hands of Muammar Gaddafi’s men.
In a press release this morning Aisha Gaddafi (Gaddafi's daughter) has categorically denied having been aboard the Libyan plane turned away from Malta after being refused landing yesterday afternoon. For that matter so did the Maltese authorities. Frankly I tend to disbelieve both...
Traveller's reaching Malta from Tripoli today have reported that soldiers and police are stopping and searching outgoing passengers in search of any printed or electronic evidence of violence and happenings in these days. Camera's aand mobile phones are being particularly targeted. Notwithstanding this I am just now watching horrendous scenes of extreme violence and fighting with fires, shooting and explosions clearly heard on Italian TV News channels.
Following this evening's Gaddafi's televised second speech which he delivered telphonically, two basic things have been pointed out: one that his tone is less drastic and more conciliatory than the previous rant (coming from him), and secondly a comparison of both recordings is raising doubts as to whether it was actually his voice, if not this could mean a lot of things. However I'm not giving the last news much weight as this is pretty normal and expected as nearly always happens on each of Obama's recorded messages - presumably such doubts are more due to wishful thinking than actual reality!
hi zeus, wow...simply astounding about el mismari's daughters...
there will always be innocent pawns
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chris27292729: Then was a matter of pride for the Libyans, today is a matter of freedom for them,am sure they welcome the west's internvention with open arms.
again you're probably right but once foreign troops step into a country however justified and however expected by the peoples oppressed there, history has showed us that it is never quite so easy to withdraw as this leaves a gaping hole of an imbalance of power which could leave a country worse off than before. I feel it would be best for all sides if the Libyan people were to take control and settle this on their own as is happening in Egypt.------ This thread is Archived ------
zeus911: again you're probably right but once foreign troops step into a country however justified and however expected by the peoples oppressed there, history has showed us that it is never quite so easy to withdraw as this leaves a gaping hole of an imbalance of power which could leave a country worse off than before. I feel it would be best for all sides if the Libyan people were to take control and settle this on their own as is happening in Egypt.
I agree with that 100%
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emmaline: hi zeus, wow...simply astounding about el mismari's daughters...
there will always be innocent pawns
yep quite so emma, unfortunately politics, money and power do tend to leave a trail of victims in this world!there will always be innocent pawns
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zeus911: again you're probably right but once foreign troops step into a country however justified and however expected by the peoples oppressed there, history has showed us that it is never quite so easy to withdraw as this leaves a gaping hole of an imbalance of power which could leave a country worse off than before. I feel it would be best for all sides if the Libyan people were to take control and settle this on their own as is happening in Egypt.
absolutely agree
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DeVino: 437: Shortly after saying "you're responsible for what is happening to your country, be it peace or war. It's your choice... as long as you're happy", and expressing his "condolences to the officers who have died and their children", Col Gaddafi hangs up.
thank you de vino for all the updates.
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What fascinates me is how powerful countries shift policy and allegiance so swiftly depending on how the outcome will effect them.
Nothing to do with principles or a sense of justice.
Foreign policies of most powerful countries are so finely balanced that events dictate weather a ruler is a friend or foe.
And we never know the half of what is actually going on.
Nothing to do with principles or a sense of justice.
Foreign policies of most powerful countries are so finely balanced that events dictate weather a ruler is a friend or foe.
And we never know the half of what is actually going on.
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Sweetheart Khadaffi "threathens" Europe :"We will make Europe wideopen to African refugees"If European leaders criticizices him...
He also has claimed time after time,that"I will make Europe black",-pointing to the enormous refugee streams from Africa.....
Using immigration as a weapon,he repeats this time&again...
As the Hungarian embassy in Libya said a few days ago,:"Libya will stop to co-operate with the EU concerning immigration matters,if EU keeps supporting the demonstrators".....
Blackmailing?
He also has claimed time after time,that"I will make Europe black",-pointing to the enormous refugee streams from Africa.....
Using immigration as a weapon,he repeats this time&again...
As the Hungarian embassy in Libya said a few days ago,:"Libya will stop to co-operate with the EU concerning immigration matters,if EU keeps supporting the demonstrators".....
Blackmailing?
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AtwoZ: Sweetheart Khadaffi "threathens" Europe :"We will make Europe wideopen to African refugees"If European leaders criticizices him...
He also has claimed time after time,that"I will make Europe black",-pointing to the enormous refugee streams from Africa.....
Using immigration as a weapon,he repeats this time&again...
As the Hungarian embassy in Libya said a few days ago,:"Libya will stop to co-operate with the EU concerning immigration matters,if EU keeps supporting the demonstrators".....
Blackmailing?
He also has claimed time after time,that"I will make Europe black",-pointing to the enormous refugee streams from Africa.....
Using immigration as a weapon,he repeats this time&again...
As the Hungarian embassy in Libya said a few days ago,:"Libya will stop to co-operate with the EU concerning immigration matters,if EU keeps supporting the demonstrators".....
Blackmailing?
The complexities of diplomatic maneuvering seems mind boggling when you consider all economic and world stability implications.
"There is information the people should know,information that we need to tell them and that which is classified".
Or some such.
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zeus911: again you're probably right but once foreign troops step into a country however justified and however expected by the peoples oppressed there, history has showed us that it is never quite so easy to withdraw as this leaves a gaping hole of an imbalance of power which could leave a country worse off than before. I feel it would be best for all sides if the Libyan people were to take control and settle this on their own as is happening in Egypt.
Ur right, it just tears at the heart of others who watch and feel like they need to do something.... All one needs to do now is send up prayers for the oppressed under this dictator.
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Buffy327: Ur right, it just tears at the heart of others who watch and feel like they need to do something.... All one needs to do now is send up prayers for the oppressed under this dictator.
hey honey, things are looking for protestors have taken much of the east, and are now celebrating.
along way to go yet, but still good news
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video of the airport on Wed.
The Telegraph seems to have the best Latest news" that I'm seeing after a quick search.
The Telegraph seems to have the best Latest news" that I'm seeing after a quick search.
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The aircraft are under armed guard at the airport while the pilots are still under custody by the Maltese Military. Their position has however been unofficially described more as their 'guests of honour' rather than prisoners. Both pilots have requested political asylum and their case is being considered.
On an interesting note on Monday's incident which I may not have clarified at the time, is that the two fighters were not alone at the time of the mission (where they were specifically instucted to attack civilian targets in Benghazi which had at the time been taken over by the people). Rather the two jets were simply forming part of a squadron and at a last minute the pilots broke formation turned northwards and flew at very low altitudes to avoid radar. Once over the sea the pilots fired on their afterburners to quickly make it across the channel to Malta. Also given that both pilots are colonels, they were most likely leading the squadron.
You may have a lot of Libyan military equipment coming your way to Malta.
Simple take the tires off. That safe guards them from be stolen.
You can demilitarized the aircraft and then give it back. Harmless untill they get maintenance to make them military again.
But there is a international legal process that you need to go thru.
The US Military Manual on demilitary weapons is
DoD 4160.21-M-1
You also have a legal problem that the Equipment is Libyan gov't owned. So they would win in a legal contest to get it back in the courts.
Malta can demilitarize his equipment. And they can hold it. It will cost him time, money and manpower to put them back into working order. All of which he has very little of.
These will give you a overview of Malta's legal ability to do this under International laws and the Geneva Conventions.
This on holding foreign military equipment being used in a conflict to a "people's right to self determination."
Also I advise contacting the
ICRC (International Committee of the Red Cross)
The ICRC can determine Libya to be in a conflict of 'people's right to self determination'. Malta will need some international party to make that determination. For the Geneva conventions and international laws to kick in.
Lastly, you need Maltese Ministry of Justice legal briefs to support the acts of demilitarizing and holding of Libyan military equipment.
If I think of more will pass it on here. Libyan Government attroney's will soon be pressing for the equipments return. So get your legal ducks in row. I hope it helps.