Is the Antichrist coming, or has already come? (408)
I should have thought so. CS didn't like the Hebrew characters..
robplum: A Buddha is not the creator of the universe, like "God" in the Christian-Judeo-Islamic sense. In fact, there is no creator of the universe given in Buddhist philosophy apart from the karma (actions) of sentient beings (beings with a mind like huans and animals).
Why don't you check up AA? Why not get real in your debate, new information my foot.
Have you paid Martia to act as your minder AA?
Your profile says you an Atheist, why don't you just stick to your Atheist views instead of attempting to corrupt the views of others. Dalai Lamas view is always open to debate using logic and reason but not mindless clap trap.
Why don't you check up AA? Why not get real in your debate, new information my foot.
Have you paid Martia to act as your minder AA?
Your profile says you an Atheist, why don't you just stick to your Atheist views instead of attempting to corrupt the views of others. Dalai Lamas view is always open to debate using logic and reason but not mindless clap trap.
AA is such an atheist that he comes after me to the International forums
revealer24: I thought Buddha was a philosopher rather than a god.
Of course you are correct and again I never said he was, I said he had simular characteristics. Many scholars believe perhaps Buddha’s philosophies were used to create Jesus.revealer24: AA is such an atheist that he comes after me to the International forums
Nope, I use international forums quite a bit. Check out the Stephen Hawkins thread. 
I to read a version of his conception written by somebody that went on to claim Atisha chattered with the Buddha is complete rubbish, Atisha completed his studies in Sumatra well after the passing of the Buddha.
here is another version
Shakyamuni Buddha, the historical founder of Buddhism, was born in India approximately 2500 years ago. Shakyamuni Buddha was the son of Shuddhodana, the king of the Shakyas, a small tribe whose kingdom was located in the foothills of the Himalayas south of what is now central Nepal fifteen miles from Kapilavastu. Shakya of Shakyamuni is taken from the name of this tribe and muni means sage or saint. His family name was Gautama (Best Cow) and his given name was Siddhartha (Goal Achieved).
Seven days after his birth, his mother, Maya, died and he was raised by his mother's younger sister Mahaprajapati. His mother's death may have been a great influence upon the delicate youth who later became very perplexed by the question of mortality. His father took good care of his introspective, quiet-mannered son, and gave him special training in literature and the martial arts.
here is another version
Shakyamuni Buddha, the historical founder of Buddhism, was born in India approximately 2500 years ago. Shakyamuni Buddha was the son of Shuddhodana, the king of the Shakyas, a small tribe whose kingdom was located in the foothills of the Himalayas south of what is now central Nepal fifteen miles from Kapilavastu. Shakya of Shakyamuni is taken from the name of this tribe and muni means sage or saint. His family name was Gautama (Best Cow) and his given name was Siddhartha (Goal Achieved).
Seven days after his birth, his mother, Maya, died and he was raised by his mother's younger sister Mahaprajapati. His mother's death may have been a great influence upon the delicate youth who later became very perplexed by the question of mortality. His father took good care of his introspective, quiet-mannered son, and gave him special training in literature and the martial arts.
revealer24: To a degree he is right. I do not believe the other guy had the Spirit of God. It was only given for a brief period of time before the end, as Joel prophesied it.
I cannot speak for anyone, only for myself.
1. I was raised as a strict atheist, I didn't believe in any supernatural.
2. I practiced Zen meditation while practising karate
3. I was reading Eastern philosophical books and I loved them
4. My best friend was a Muslim
5. When I attended a bible study for the sake of a girl I could hardly contain my laughter.
6. Then I was immersed in economy, then in Nostradamus
7. The I was very intensely drawn to the bible and ended with belief in God before having any connections with Christians or attended church meetings.
8. Zealously studied Christian theology, loved it, I was over the moon I found it so exciting and interesting, but they throw the whole lot out the window and redeveloped it from ground up.
I am not claiming I am right. But I was not born into this religion, I did not inherit it. It is the result of my own intellectual search and studies.
You can take it or leave it, what you do with it is none of my business.
I cannot speak for anyone, only for myself.
1. I was raised as a strict atheist, I didn't believe in any supernatural.
2. I practiced Zen meditation while practising karate
3. I was reading Eastern philosophical books and I loved them
4. My best friend was a Muslim
5. When I attended a bible study for the sake of a girl I could hardly contain my laughter.
6. Then I was immersed in economy, then in Nostradamus
7. The I was very intensely drawn to the bible and ended with belief in God before having any connections with Christians or attended church meetings.
8. Zealously studied Christian theology, loved it, I was over the moon I found it so exciting and interesting, but they throw the whole lot out the window and redeveloped it from ground up.
I am not claiming I am right. But I was not born into this religion, I did not inherit it. It is the result of my own intellectual search and studies.
You can take it or leave it, what you do with it is none of my business.
Interesting. I was raised in a very closed Franciscan belief system. Since the age of 14 I took interest in Egyptian pyramids which eventually lead me to explore their mythological gods. Because I found it so interesting, this took me to explore other beliefs. Eventually I came to a conclusion… since there are thousands of gods out there we are all 99% atheist since we choose to believe in one and not all.
AgentAjax: Of course you are correct and again I never said he was, I said he had simular characteristics. Many scholars believe perhaps Buddha’s philosophies were used to create Jesus.
No, it cannot be. Yeshua is so incredibly Jewish that there is no overlapping. He taught pure Judaism in a brilliant manner.
The Greeks made him into one of their gods attributing Pagan miracles to him.
If you want to know for sure what Pagan miracles were attributed to him, you compare what he did with what the disciples did, for Yeshua indicated that they will be able to do the same, and ever greater works:
John 14:12
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.
Did the apostles walk on water, turned water into wine, feed multitudes, quietened storms? They healed and raised the dead. Did I miss anything else? So this simple test will give us a pretty good filter about what stories we should hold suspect.
AgentAjax: Interesting. I was raised in a very closed Franciscan belief system. Since the age of 14 I took interest in Egyptian pyramids which eventually lead me to explore their mythological gods. Because I found it so interesting, this took me to explore other beliefs. Eventually I came to a conclusion… since there are thousands of gods out there we are all 99% atheist since we choose to believe in one and not all.
But many ancient religions have one Supreme God beside all the other gods...
revealer24: But many ancient religions have one Supreme God beside all the other gods...
Yes The catholics have 3 gods and maybe 10,000 saints. makes sense.revealer24: No, it cannot be. Yeshua is so incredibly Jewish that there is no overlapping. He taught pure Judaism in a brilliant manner.
revealer24: No, it cannot be. Yeshua is so incredibly Jewish that there is no overlapping. He taught pure Judaism in a brilliant manner.
revealer24: No, it cannot be. Yeshua is so incredibly Jewish that there is no overlapping. He taught pure Judaism in a brilliant manner.
The Greeks made him into one of their gods attributing Pagan miracles to him.
If you want to know for sure what Pagan miracles were attributed to him, you compare what he did with what the disciples did, for Yeshua indicated that they will be able to do the same, and ever greater works:
John 14:12
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.
Did the apostles walk on water, turned water into wine, feed multitudes, quietened storms? They healed and raised the dead. Did I miss anything else? So this simple test will give us a pretty good filter about what stories we should hold suspect.
The Greeks made him into one of their gods attributing Pagan miracles to him.
If you want to know for sure what Pagan miracles were attributed to him, you compare what he did with what the disciples did, for Yeshua indicated that they will be able to do the same, and ever greater works:
John 14:12
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.
Did the apostles walk on water, turned water into wine, feed multitudes, quietened storms? They healed and raised the dead. Did I miss anything else? So this simple test will give us a pretty good filter about what stories we should hold suspect.
So what you are saying the bible is not what it claims to be “ a true word of the god?? I wonder how that sits with general Christian belief? I was going to throw Dionysus back at you but since you covered it pretty well…damn
Any god that finishes with SUS!! in my opinion is just that suss.
have agood night.
AgentAjax: So what you are saying the bible is not what it claims to be “ a true word of the god?? I wonder how that sits with general Christian belief? I was going to throw Dionysus back at you but since you covered it pretty well…damn
Any god that finishes with SUS!! in my opinion is just that suss.
have agood night.
Any god that finishes with SUS!! in my opinion is just that suss.
have agood night.
I do not follow the mainstream, so I am free to come to my own conclusions. If I am wrong, at least I cannot blame anyone but myself.
The first complete manuscript comes from the 4th century, before than we only have fragments with few verses and church father quotations.
Then we have other traditions, not only the Greek, for example, the Old Syriac and the Old Latin translations that don't quite match up with the Greek, especially the Syriac, for it reads that Joseph begat Jesus. I think I have already posted this, but here it is again from the Syriac Sinaitic of Matthew:
Matt. 1:16 "Jacob begat Joseph; Joseph, to whom was betrothed Mary the Virgin, begat Jesus, who is called the Christ."
Matt. 1:24-25 "When Joseph arose from his sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took his wife and she bore to him a son, and he called his name Jesus."
No virgin birth and no abstaining from Mary.
Another interesting verse in John:
"whoever believes on God has eternal life..."
That gives a different twist to the story of Yeshua.
AgentAjax: So what you are saying the bible is not what it claims to be “ a true word of the god?? I wonder how that sits with general Christian belief? I was going to throw Dionysus back at you but since you covered it pretty well…damn
Any god that finishes with SUS!! in my opinion is just that suss.
have agood night.
Any god that finishes with SUS!! in my opinion is just that suss.
have agood night.
Evangelicals state the belief that the scriptures were inspired and error free in the originals. Well, we don't have the originals, so I use internal evidence to filter out some corruption, like comparing the miracles performed. Generally the scriptures are in a pretty good shape, as new manuscript discoveries seem to confirm the readings. Not a lot needs to be corrected, but I'd like to see the Syriac Sinaiticus being considered with greater weight. I wonder what would the text look like if the it was accepted that the scriptures were originally written in Hebrew (as there is a growing number of scholars that propose it) and translated into Greek and other languages.
We do have some idea about what the Hebrew gospel of Matthew sounded like as the church fathers sometimes quote from it. Supposedly it was used by the Ebionites who were formed by the disciples that escaped Jerusalem before its destruction and were led by Yeshua's brothers.
I don’t believe for one minute you can have it both ways. If we are to go with the idea that all scripture is inspired by god and would allow for misquotations to go on for 2000 plus years?
Lets revisit the origins of Christian for the 2nd time.
When Puline Christians first went searching for the centre of their faith they discovered that the Ebonites and the Gnostics predated them. Horrified, their answer was to edit verses, burn scripture, kill and hares the rest until they conformed with the new Christian Greek/Roman philosophy. With the little of the gonistic scripture found, it predated Greek and Roman Christianity, by at least 200 years, and were found to be identical to the biblical Jesus. I know you yourself already hit on the subject briefly but it is part of Christian folklore.
There are many questions out and there are obvious answers why beliefs all over the world are synonymous with Christianity.
1 The sun "dies" for three days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops in its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.
2 In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin."
3 The sun is the "Light of the World."
4 The sun "cometh on clouds, and every eye shall see him."
5 The sun rising in the morning is the "Savior of mankind."
6 The sun wears a corona, "crown of thorns" or halo.
7 The sun "walks on water."
7 The sun's "followers," "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.
8 The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High"; thus, "he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12.
9 The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30°; hence, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.
10 The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified," which represents its passing through the equinoxes, the vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.
Lets revisit the origins of Christian for the 2nd time.
When Puline Christians first went searching for the centre of their faith they discovered that the Ebonites and the Gnostics predated them. Horrified, their answer was to edit verses, burn scripture, kill and hares the rest until they conformed with the new Christian Greek/Roman philosophy. With the little of the gonistic scripture found, it predated Greek and Roman Christianity, by at least 200 years, and were found to be identical to the biblical Jesus. I know you yourself already hit on the subject briefly but it is part of Christian folklore.
There are many questions out and there are obvious answers why beliefs all over the world are synonymous with Christianity.
1 The sun "dies" for three days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops in its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.
2 In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin."
3 The sun is the "Light of the World."
4 The sun "cometh on clouds, and every eye shall see him."
5 The sun rising in the morning is the "Savior of mankind."
6 The sun wears a corona, "crown of thorns" or halo.
7 The sun "walks on water."
7 The sun's "followers," "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.
8 The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High"; thus, "he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12.
9 The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30°; hence, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.
10 The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified," which represents its passing through the equinoxes, the vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.
AgentAjax: Lets revisit the origins of Christian for the 2nd time.
First of all, I will not answer your points because these have something to do with the Jesus made up by the Greek church, in which I have no interest.
The Wikipedia article in interesting and I had read similar articles in the past, but I disagree with them in a number of points. I will only give you an few examples because it is getting late.
1. I don't believe in "Pauline Christianity". That didn't exist in the first century, and after the apostolic age the Greek church absorbed Hellenistic ideas and Pagan doctrines, therefore, it cannot be called Pauline Christianity. Paul taught Gentiles how to live in the covenant and his teaching is very much derived from the Tanakh. There was a confusion in the first century whether Gentile converts had to convert to Judaism for salvation (the Judaisers believes they had to), but the Jerusalem Council agreed with Paul.
2. Acts records that it was at Antioch that the disciples first called themselves "Christians". The term simply means "those belonging to the Messiah" of "Messianic". There was no "Christianity" in the sense we think about Christianity today. They were one of the sects within Judaism.
3. It is false that a resurrected Messiah is not acceptable to Judaism today. When Rabbi Schneerson died his followers expected him to rise on after three days. It is the Chabad movement that brought back to life the biblical interpretation system Rabbinic Judaism abandoned probably because of the Jesus movement. On the top, there is a belief in two Messiahs. If Israel is worthy, God will send Messiah ben Yosepf (this does not mean the literal descendant of Yosef), the Messiah after the manner of Joseph, who was betrayed by his brethren, then he was hidden from them, while he rose to great power, then he was revealed. So revealed, hidden and revealed again.
The second Messiah, whom God will send if the Jewish people are worthy, is Messiah ben David, in the manner of David, the conquering king.
AgentAjax: I don’t believe for one minute you can have it both ways. If we are to go with the idea that all scripture is inspired by god and would allow for misquotations to go on for 2000 plus years?
Lets revisit the origins of Christian for the 2nd time.
When Puline Christians first went searching for the centre of their faith they discovered that the Ebonites and the Gnostics predated them. Horrified, their answer was to edit verses, burn scripture, kill and hares the rest until they conformed with the new Christian Greek/Roman philosophy. With the little of the gonistic scripture found, it predated Greek and Roman Christianity, by at least 200 years, and were found to be identical to the biblical Jesus. I know you yourself already hit on the subject briefly but it is part of Christian folklore.
Lets revisit the origins of Christian for the 2nd time.
When Puline Christians first went searching for the centre of their faith they discovered that the Ebonites and the Gnostics predated them. Horrified, their answer was to edit verses, burn scripture, kill and hares the rest until they conformed with the new Christian Greek/Roman philosophy. With the little of the gonistic scripture found, it predated Greek and Roman Christianity, by at least 200 years, and were found to be identical to the biblical Jesus. I know you yourself already hit on the subject briefly but it is part of Christian folklore.
4. It is true the Gnostics were influential in the second century, but my interest is rather in two independent groups, the Ebionites and the Adoptionists, that both believed that Jesus was a human being chosen by God and empowered by the Spirit, which Spirit departed from him on the cross. I may add the most widely read book in the early churches, "The Shepherd of Hermas" which testifies about the same theology.
5. Christianity didn't become attractive because they did not require conversion to Judaism. Judaism never required Gentiles to convert, it was always only an option. Gentiles could be considered righteous if they observed the Noahide laws. Hence, we find in the NT proselytes (those Gentiles who were converts to Judaism and God-fearers, who were righteous Gentiles, who observed the Noahide laws. Paul didn't build up a different system, this already existed in Judaism, just as his theology was also Pharisaic theology, but not the legalistic version taught in the first century.
6. While in Egypt Jews were influenced by Hellenism (see Philo), John in his gospel exhibits a more ancient theology, that is, God first created the Torah (derived from Gen. 1 "Let there be light"), and through the Torah He created the world. The New Testament theology is NOT Hellenistic, but trinitarian Christianity interprets it in a Hellenised way. Surprise, surprise, everyone is a heretic who doesn't follow their Hellenistic interpretation.
7. I have just recently been exposed to Preterist theology, which I don't quite understand yet. I know that much, that they believe the Kingdom was always meant to be spiritual, and all prophecies became fulfilled in 70AD. I am in the opinion that the Kingdom was conditional
Malachi 4:
4 Remember the teaching of my servant Moses, the statutes and ordinances that I commanded him at Horeb for all Israel. 5 Lo, I will send you the prophet Elijah before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes. 6 He will turn the hearts of parents to their children and the hearts of children to their parents, lest I will come and strike the land with a curse.
Repentance is never forced. So if Elijah doesn't succeed, what will come? The curse. One of the curses of the Torah is exile. So in my view because of the unrepentant Jewish nation the Kingdom did not come. Exile came instead, and the Kingdom came in a spiritual sense.
AgentAjax: I don’t believe for one minute you can have it both ways. If we are to go with the idea that all scripture is inspired by god and would allow for misquotations to go on for 2000 plus years?
There is an enormous number of manuscripts, fragments, miniscules, translations and quotations. It is the job of the textual criticism to try reconstruct the original readings. From what I learned and understand the text is in a very good shape.
From what I can see that saying is correct never discuss Politics or Religion.
I do understand that. But for some who like to have a good old chinwag its perfect as each has their own opinions on the subjects at hand rarely to be changed,the main thing is it is discussed always with respect for each others outlook as nothing is set in stone........... UM sorry the Ten Commandments and anything else you can think of ...OOP'S
At this time I am talking about Religion because there are so many Authors going back so far... you can pick and choose which line of thought to take because what is fact or fiction really is anybodies guess.JMO
No dear Rev dont you dare.
As for Politics? Well thats out....if your left! your left behind,and if Right your Right of course.
I do understand that. But for some who like to have a good old chinwag its perfect as each has their own opinions on the subjects at hand rarely to be changed,the main thing is it is discussed always with respect for each others outlook as nothing is set in stone........... UM sorry the Ten Commandments and anything else you can think of ...OOP'S
At this time I am talking about Religion because there are so many Authors going back so far... you can pick and choose which line of thought to take because what is fact or fiction really is anybodies guess.JMO
No dear Rev dont you dare.
As for Politics? Well thats out....if your left! your left behind,and if Right your Right of course.
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To a degree he is right. I do not believe the other guy had the Spirit of God. It was only given for a brief period of time before the end, as Joel prophesied it.
I cannot speak for anyone, only for myself.
1. I was raised as a strict atheist, I didn't believe in any supernatural.
2. I practiced Zen meditation while practising karate
3. I was reading Eastern philosophical books and I loved them
4. My best friend was a Muslim
5. When I attended a bible study for the sake of a girl I could hardly contain my laughter.
6. Then I was immersed in economy, then in Nostradamus
7. The I was very intensely drawn to the bible and ended with belief in God before having any connections with Christians or attended church meetings.
8. Zealously studied Christian theology, loved it, I was over the moon I found it so exciting and interesting, but they throw the whole lot out the window and redeveloped it from ground up.
I am not claiming I am right. But I was not born into this religion, I did not inherit it. It is the result of my own intellectual search and studies.
You can take it or leave it, what you do with it is none of my business.