Is the Antichrist coming, or has already come? (408)
Lookin4missrightmelbourne, Victoria Australia400 Threads 24,032 PostsAgentAjax: you should get out more then
yeh im hearin ya 
Lookin4missright: yeh im hearin ya
gotta depoof me puter again 
very slow today 
revealer24: Interesting theories.
Can you quote me the passage that says the earth is flat? I cannot recall any such verse. The Catholic Church did indeed teach that it, but they didn't derive it from the bible.Book of Adam? There are many more that were not included for a reason. Maybe because they were not written in the first century. Maybe because their theology was incompatible with the Tanakh and the Renewed Covenant scriptures. The gospel of Mary, and so on were also not. There were heaps of people who wrote in those days their own gospels in the name of biblical heroes and their works were not included.
The coming of the Messiah was predicted in Daniel (seventy sevens prophecy), and because of there was a very fervent Messianic expectation around the time Jesus was born, which many people tried to exploit. The Daniel prophecy also tell us that God's anointed shall be cut off... the reference being to the Messiah ben Joseph, who was to suffer like Joseph himself did when his brethren betrayed him.
Marx's book, "Das Capital" wasn't included either, though he derived his ideas from the Jewish concept of the Kingdom of God.
Regarding who can be proven and who not, history works differently from the way you propose. History examines historical documents and draw conclusions, and there are ample ancient references to Jesus. A few historical persons are known from a single piece of document. Regarding Jesus' existence we have first and second century independent (even opposing) groups, fragments and translations of the gospels, hidden Jewish references to him, etc.
If you like, check out Geza Vermes' works, he is a Jew and certainly is not biased towards believing in Jesus:
It is only the sceptics that are trying hard to remove all religions from the world, so was with no success. They produced a chart of biblical contradictions, I downloaded it and had a look and it just showed they took a mechanical look of the bible without having any understanding of the culture and thought. One such example is who spoke from the burning bush, God of an angel, and surprise surprise they don't understand the concept of the shaliach. In that respect their work is deceptive as it is not based on proper investigation and knowledge.
Can you quote me the passage that says the earth is flat? I cannot recall any such verse. The Catholic Church did indeed teach that it, but they didn't derive it from the bible.Book of Adam? There are many more that were not included for a reason. Maybe because they were not written in the first century. Maybe because their theology was incompatible with the Tanakh and the Renewed Covenant scriptures. The gospel of Mary, and so on were also not. There were heaps of people who wrote in those days their own gospels in the name of biblical heroes and their works were not included.
The coming of the Messiah was predicted in Daniel (seventy sevens prophecy), and because of there was a very fervent Messianic expectation around the time Jesus was born, which many people tried to exploit. The Daniel prophecy also tell us that God's anointed shall be cut off... the reference being to the Messiah ben Joseph, who was to suffer like Joseph himself did when his brethren betrayed him.
Marx's book, "Das Capital" wasn't included either, though he derived his ideas from the Jewish concept of the Kingdom of God.
Regarding who can be proven and who not, history works differently from the way you propose. History examines historical documents and draw conclusions, and there are ample ancient references to Jesus. A few historical persons are known from a single piece of document. Regarding Jesus' existence we have first and second century independent (even opposing) groups, fragments and translations of the gospels, hidden Jewish references to him, etc.
If you like, check out Geza Vermes' works, he is a Jew and certainly is not biased towards believing in Jesus:
It is only the sceptics that are trying hard to remove all religions from the world, so was with no success. They produced a chart of biblical contradictions, I downloaded it and had a look and it just showed they took a mechanical look of the bible without having any understanding of the culture and thought. One such example is who spoke from the burning bush, God of an angel, and surprise surprise they don't understand the concept of the shaliach. In that respect their work is deceptive as it is not based on proper investigation and knowledge.
Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)
Job 38:13 13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
tonyxf: Gee, thats a ruddy good interpretation, I would never have thought of that one. So means I dont benefit coz I dont understand. The last days of what? Harvey Norman sale maybe.
In Jewish reckoning there are ages that begin and end to give way to another age. The Messiah came to usher in the age of the Kingdom, and the time before that were the last days of the old age.
There is no such a thing as the end of the world, that is a gross mistranslation. The Greek "aion" means "age", a long time, but not "world" and not "eternity".
With 70 AD that age came to an end and the Jewish people were dispersed throughout the world, being the only such people that were preserved through 2000 years, their land re-established, they re-gathered to their ancient land, etc.
The Preterists argue that the Kingdom prophesied was spiritual, as Jesus said, it will not come with outward observance
Luke 17:
20 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”
Matthew 12:28
But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Luke 10:
8 Whatever city you enter and they receive you, eat what is set before you; 9 and heal those in it who are sick, and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’ 10 But whatever city you enter and they do not receive you, go out into its streets and say, 11 ‘Even the dust of your city which clings to our feet we wipe off in protest against you; yet be sure of this, that the kingdom of God has come near.’
So the Kingdom had come. The prophecies didn't indicate a 2000 year break. The term "kingdom" is used in the same way as "serfdom", but we see many of the Messianic tasks being fulfilled (Torah taken to the Gentiles, Israel regathered to her own land, etc). I posted this on the international forum.
AgentAjax: Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)
This is a reference to East-West-North-South, not to a flat earth.
AgentAjax:
Job 38:13 13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
Job 38:13 13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
Same as above.
We say the sun rises, does it mean that is what we believe?
IM actually sorry I asked. But ok so the last days of the jewish being in there own land. Makes sense 
tonyxf: IM actually sorry I asked. But ok so the last days of the jewish being in there own land. Makes sense
The last days would affect the whole earth, not just the romans pulling down a couple of walls
revealer24: The second coming has occurred in 70AD. Before that time they were already in the last days (as John said, "the last hour").
pockets of Judo Christianity was already established between 600 and 400 AD and it appeared in Rome 200 years before supposed Jesus. That makes it investable that a person by the name of Jesus was going to appear no matter what.revealer24: This is a reference to East-West-North-South, not to a flat earth.
Same as above.
We say the sun rises, does it mean that is what we believe?
it does when I look at it. Same as above.
We say the sun rises, does it mean that is what we believe?
Lend me your wisdom oh wise gracious ones
Reincarnation and the Bible. Biblical texts that seem to imply belief in reincarnation
The most "convincing" texts of this kind are the following:
1) Matthew 11,14 and 17,12-13, concerning the identity of John the Baptist;
2) John 9,2, "Who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?";
3) John 3,3, "No one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again";
4) James 3,6, "the wheel of nature";
5) Galatians 6,7, "A man reaps what he sows";
6) Matthew 26,52, "all who draw the sword will die by the sword";
7) Revelation 13,10, "If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed."
Reincarnation and the Bible. Biblical texts that seem to imply belief in reincarnation
The most "convincing" texts of this kind are the following:
1) Matthew 11,14 and 17,12-13, concerning the identity of John the Baptist;
2) John 9,2, "Who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?";
3) John 3,3, "No one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again";
4) James 3,6, "the wheel of nature";
5) Galatians 6,7, "A man reaps what he sows";
6) Matthew 26,52, "all who draw the sword will die by the sword";
7) Revelation 13,10, "If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed."
robplum: Lend me your wisdom oh wise gracious ones
Reincarnation and the Bible. Biblical texts that seem to imply belief in reincarnationThe most "convincing" texts of this kind are the following:
1) Matthew 11,14 and 17,12-13, concerning the identity of John the Baptist;
2) John 9,2, "Who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?";
3) John 3,3, "No one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again";
4) James 3,6, "the wheel of nature";
5) Galatians 6,7, "A man reaps what he sows";
6) Matthew 26,52, "all who draw the sword will die by the sword";
7) Revelation 13,10, "If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed."
psssst! uncle rob, hey... think your girlfriend is hovering about Reincarnation and the Bible. Biblical texts that seem to imply belief in reincarnationThe most "convincing" texts of this kind are the following:
1) Matthew 11,14 and 17,12-13, concerning the identity of John the Baptist;
2) John 9,2, "Who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?";
3) John 3,3, "No one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again";
4) James 3,6, "the wheel of nature";
5) Galatians 6,7, "A man reaps what he sows";
6) Matthew 26,52, "all who draw the sword will die by the sword";
7) Revelation 13,10, "If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed."
be careful 
yeah she been rude and insulting, claims to be a realist but has clearly studied nothing worthy of debate...
AgentAjax: it does when I look at it.
Just been reading a bit of both your opinions...and the conclusion I have come to is... both of you can discuss till the cows come home and then some as its the perfect discussion.
Neither one can disprove each other... there is a reply for everything a never ending game of tennis that can only end in Deuce every time.
I suppose its the perfect game really but so frustrating sometimes.
Enjoy yourself boys but sometimes pop onto other threads for a breather and a dose of reality.
AgentAjax: it does when I look at it.
Just been reading a bit of both your opinions...and the conclusion I have come to is... both of you can discuss till the cows come home and then some as its the perfect discussion.
Neither one can disprove each other... there is a reply for everything a never ending game of tennis that can only end in Deuce every time.
I suppose its the perfect game really but so frustrating sometimes.
Enjoy yourself boys but sometimes pop onto other threads for a breather and a dose of reality.
AgentAjax: it does when I look at it.
Just been reading a bit of both your opinions...and the conclusion I have come to is... both of you can discuss till the cows come home and then some as its the perfect discussion.
Neither one can disprove each other... there is a reply for everything a never ending game of tennis that can only end in Deuce every time.
I suppose its the perfect game really but so frustrating sometimes.
Enjoy yourself boys but sometimes pop onto other threads for a breather and a dose of reality.
AgentAjax: it does when I look at it.
Just been reading a bit of both your opinions...and the conclusion I have come to is... both of you can discuss till the cows come home and then some as its the perfect discussion.
Neither one can disprove each other... there is a reply for everything a never ending game of tennis that can only end in Deuce every time.
I suppose its the perfect game really but so frustrating sometimes.
Enjoy yourself boys but sometimes pop onto other threads for a breather and a dose of reality.
AgentAjax: it does when I look at it.
Just been reading a bit of both your opinions...and the conclusion I have come to is... both of you can discuss till the cows come home and then some as its the perfect discussion.
Neither one can disprove each other... there is a reply for everything a never ending game of tennis that can only end in Deuce every time.
I suppose its the perfect game really but so frustrating sometimes.
Enjoy yourself boys but sometimes pop onto other threads for a breather and a dose of reality.
SO sorry this damn page got jammed.
Hicups again.
Hicups again.
yeah mate its readable...intelligence level, emm open mindedness grows on us lookin, fair comment
Martia: Just been reading a bit of both your opinions...and the conclusion I have come to is... both of you can discuss till the cows come home and then some as its the perfect discussion.
Neither one can disprove each other... there is a reply for everything a never ending game of tennis that can only end in Deuce every time.
I suppose its the perfect game really but so frustrating sometimes.
Enjoy yourself boys but sometimes pop onto other threads for a breather and a dose of reality.
Its impossible to prove or disprove the bible using the bible. Its bit like WWW or google it all depends from which angle you look at it. Some use it to spread love, others to set up wars and the smart ones make money out of the stupid and the venerable...its all in there Neither one can disprove each other... there is a reply for everything a never ending game of tennis that can only end in Deuce every time.
I suppose its the perfect game really but so frustrating sometimes.
Enjoy yourself boys but sometimes pop onto other threads for a breather and a dose of reality.
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