Why be moral? What is meant by ‘right’, ‘wrong’, ‘good’ and ‘value’? (101)
Why be moral? What is meant by ‘right’, ‘wrong’, ‘good’ and ‘value’?
Do you believe in moral absolutism? [for the dullard: pure objective grounds for morality? For the COMPLETE fool: moral directives that remain unalterable no matter what the circumstance?
I.e. Turn the other cheek?: The greatest moral directive to give as an example of the problem of moral absolutism . . .
Another is: thou shall not kill. Supposing you are being killed? Or someone is trying to kill your mother and it is a question of you stopping them by wounding them, and possibly fatally . . . Should you, believing that these are moral ABSOLUTES, allow yourself to be killed, your mother to be killed (your nation to be attacked???). . . Because: Thou Shall Not Kill?
Can killing be justified, and if it can - where can it?
There is a great problem in the sphere of Morality and Ethics: it is the quest for objective grounds for morality . . .
The most famous work in moral philosophy is known as: ‘Groundwork For The Metaphysics of Morals’ . Morality rests on an illusion of objectivity. On an illusion of ABSOLUTISM.
People take moral directives as unconditional absolutes, which is like accepting: ‘Thou Shall always wear thy seatbelt while thy vehicle is in motion . . .even when thine vehicle is about to burst into a fireball and go over a cliff, for it is STILL in motion . . .’
I hate people.
I was on a thread a while ago where I brought up this issue, especially in relation to ‘Thou Shall not Kill‘, to which I replied, thou shall not kill . . . UNLESS . . .
thou art being KILLED.
To which some wise person whom I will not name, said: what about turn the other cheek?
[I believe Bnatural rather wryly replied: you mean DEAD cheek?]
What are your opinions on these moral issues? . . .
Are there moral absolutes? WHAT are they if there ARE?
I thank you, and despise you, in advance . . . for your pitiful answers.
Ouch! Ray is back!
The original Commandment was:Thou shalt not Murder
!!
Puts a different Spin on things.
As for turning the Other Cheek,what you gonna do when you run out of Cheecks?
Last time I counted there were only four.
Do you believe in moral absolutism? [for the dullard: pure objective grounds for morality? For the COMPLETE fool: moral directives that remain unalterable no matter what the circumstance?
I.e. Turn the other cheek?: The greatest moral directive to give as an example of the problem of moral absolutism . . .
Another is: thou shall not kill. Supposing you are being killed? Or someone is trying to kill your mother and it is a question of you stopping them by wounding them, and possibly fatally . . . Should you, believing that these are moral ABSOLUTES, allow yourself to be killed, your mother to be killed (your nation to be attacked???). . . Because: Thou Shall Not Kill?
Can killing be justified, and if it can - where can it?
There is a great problem in the sphere of Morality and Ethics: it is the quest for objective grounds for morality . . .
The most famous work in moral philosophy is known as: ‘Groundwork For The Metaphysics of Morals’ . Morality rests on an illusion of objectivity. On an illusion of ABSOLUTISM.
People take moral directives as unconditional absolutes, which is like accepting: ‘Thou Shall always wear thy seatbelt while thy vehicle is in motion . . .even when thine vehicle is about to burst into a fireball and go over a cliff, for it is STILL in motion . . .’
I hate people.
I was on a thread a while ago where I brought up this issue, especially in relation to ‘Thou Shall not Kill‘, to which I replied, thou shall not kill . . . UNLESS . . .
thou art being KILLED.
To which some wise person whom I will not name, said: what about turn the other cheek?
[I believe Bnatural rather wryly replied: you mean DEAD cheek?]
What are your opinions on these moral issues? . . .
Are there moral absolutes? WHAT are they if there ARE?
I thank you, and despise you, in advance . . . for your pitiful answers.
Ouch! Ray is back!
The original Commandment was:Thou shalt not Murder
!!
Puts a different Spin on things.
As for turning the Other Cheek,what you gonna do when you run out of Cheecks?
Last time I counted there were only four.
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I prefer to be subjective, feeling my way along, meeting each moment and situation on my own terms.
How refreshing to be despised
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moral absolutism is simply another way of saying 'people control' 
Hi Ray, good to see you
Hi Ray, good to see you
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Greeting Ray, you big, soft cynic you.
Absolutism...or were does common sense come in to play.
Ray, this is my understanding of some things you were alluding to in your OP.
If somebody was attacking me or my future family, I'd defend myself and them with reasonable force. That's just common sense.
In turning the other cheek, I'd be allowing verbal insults to pass me by without retaliating in like manner.
As for the value of human life, and killing...Ray, human life IS sacred.
So, I'd do my level best to not put myself in a position were I could cause harm to another person. And that included a refusal to fight in ANY war, or bear arms in any capacity.
Also, for instance, I'd make sure my driving is up to standard.
You get the picture.
There are VERY few moral absolutes. I like to think of them as moral PRINCIPLES in any case...as it allows for a different method of acheiving the same aim for each person.
Less rigid...more reasonable...and requiring a deeper understanding of the REASONS for such statements.
Good health!
Absolutism...or were does common sense come in to play.
Ray, this is my understanding of some things you were alluding to in your OP.
If somebody was attacking me or my future family, I'd defend myself and them with reasonable force. That's just common sense.
In turning the other cheek, I'd be allowing verbal insults to pass me by without retaliating in like manner.
As for the value of human life, and killing...Ray, human life IS sacred.
So, I'd do my level best to not put myself in a position were I could cause harm to another person. And that included a refusal to fight in ANY war, or bear arms in any capacity.
Also, for instance, I'd make sure my driving is up to standard.
You get the picture.
There are VERY few moral absolutes. I like to think of them as moral PRINCIPLES in any case...as it allows for a different method of acheiving the same aim for each person.
Less rigid...more reasonable...and requiring a deeper understanding of the REASONS for such statements.
Good health!
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Brilliant!
Trish always hits issues right on the mark.
Trish always hits issues right on the mark.
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In response to: I thank you, and despise you, in advance . . . for your pitiful answers.
trish saved us a whole bunch of pity from Ray
that's just wrong ------ This thread is Archived ------
that smight get a whole bunch of dullards dead! 
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In response to: that smight get a whole bunch of dullards dead!
Luckily Al, I dont get smitten all that often
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I pity myself in advance for absolutely not caring morally one way or the other that Ray despises me! Sigh. I must be in a morally relativist wilderness.
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I believe in common sense.......the rest shall follow.
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In response to: Euthanasia. Is it right, is it wrong? [I believe there is nothing a human being has more of an incontestable right to take than their own life, whether it is morally right to do so or not . . . ].
Within reason Ray! ... a person on drugs without the ability to reason properly ... drugs affect choice and maybe this person has chosen the path of slowly killing themselves ny indulging but the actual act perpetrated without clarity of mind is contestable ..
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With most people, it is not the things that are not understood that causes confusion. It is those things understood that they don't want to do that causes them to rationalize on other things and not do that understood.
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With most people, it is not the things that are not understood that causes confusion. It is those things understood that they don't want to do that causes them to rationalize on other things and not do that understood.
Is that a "known known" or an "unknown unknown"?
Is that a "known known" or an "unknown unknown"?
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In response to: And war . . . well . . . sometimes it is necessary [when the lives of the people of the state and the entire state itself are threatened by another, or elsewhere in the world help is needed etc] . . .
Who has the right to make this choice for others? Who has the right to in effect conscript others for what they beleive is right? ... does "I elect you to run my country" mean my life choices on the world front are now in their control? That confuses 'rights' with righteousness .... thou shalt not confuse me
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I think it is a definate maybe! 
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Back from vacation so soon?
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well ... here starts my pitiful answer !!!
In short , we know not enough about anything to state any kind of
" absolutism " for anyone.
Why did moral principles come about and who laid them ? hmm.. I am inviting a quick sand dip now ...
I think morals were certain standards/ codes for living laid by " god " if you believe in one , society if you follow one or your own conscience if there is one.
So... if we serve the purpose of a fruitful life without causing hurt to another and aim to grow spiritually while we live without deliberately inflicting our views on another i guess its in certain ways moral enough.
No !! there is no absolutism !!! It is definitely inflicting opinion and judging by a protocol which is as Trish said " control."
Situations make a man and his life !!
done.
In short , we know not enough about anything to state any kind of
" absolutism " for anyone.
Why did moral principles come about and who laid them ? hmm.. I am inviting a quick sand dip now ...
I think morals were certain standards/ codes for living laid by " god " if you believe in one , society if you follow one or your own conscience if there is one.
So... if we serve the purpose of a fruitful life without causing hurt to another and aim to grow spiritually while we live without deliberately inflicting our views on another i guess its in certain ways moral enough.
No !! there is no absolutism !!! It is definitely inflicting opinion and judging by a protocol which is as Trish said " control."
Situations make a man and his life !!
done.------ This thread is Archived ------
When it comes to morals Ray, absolutism is the only way to go amigo; it's either black or white; when you are searching for the gray it's because you need to justify a wrong; congratulations on taking the time to read the bible, even if you have not understood any of it yet. There is hope for you, just keep on trying
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Particularly "In short, we know not enough about anything to state any kind of "absolutism" for anyone"
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Do you believe in moral absolutism? [for the dullard: pure objective grounds for morality? For the COMPLETE fool: moral directives that remain unalterable no matter what the circumstance?
I.e. Turn the other cheek?: The greatest moral directive to give as an example of the problem of moral absolutism . . .
Another is: thou shall not kill. Supposing you are being killed? Or someone is trying to kill your mother and it is a question of you stopping them by wounding them, and possibly fatally . . . Should you, believing that these are moral ABSOLUTES, allow yourself to be killed, your mother to be killed (your nation to be attacked???). . . Because: Thou Shall Not Kill?
Can killing be justified, and if it can - where can it?
There is a great problem in the sphere of Morality and Ethics: it is the quest for objective grounds for morality . . .
The most famous work in moral philosophy is known as: ‘Groundwork For The Metaphysics of Morals’ . Morality rests on an illusion of objectivity. On an illusion of ABSOLUTISM.
People take moral directives as unconditional absolutes, which is like accepting: ‘Thou Shall always wear thy seatbelt while thy vehicle is in motion . . .even when thine vehicle is about to burst into a fireball and go over a cliff, for it is STILL in motion . . .’
I hate people.
I was on a thread a while ago where I brought up this issue, especially in relation to ‘Thou Shall not Kill‘, to which I replied, thou shall not kill . . . UNLESS . . .
thou art being KILLED.
To which some wise person whom I will not name, said: what about turn the other cheek?
[I believe Bnatural rather wryly replied: you mean DEAD cheek?]
What are your opinions on these moral issues? . . .
Are there moral absolutes? WHAT are they if there ARE?
I thank you, and despise you, in advance . . . for your pitiful answers.