Why be moral? What is meant by ‘right’, ‘wrong’, ‘good’ and ‘value’? (101)
hi aries !!! 
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Hiya.. nice to see ur in top form
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As far as the self defense theory goes, sure we are all human and ready to react, to survive, but Jesus didn't do any of that. That tells me something.
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and he could have,easily; he had a large following. JMO 
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In response to: As far as the self defense theory goes, sure we are all human and ready to react, to survive, but Jesus didn't do any of that. That tells me something.
That was suicidal .. when one knows that his choice is death, no matter the instrument, he has indeed chosen suicide... that was jesus's choice to be a martyr throught the suicidal option. What survives because of this is the question of his lack of self defense.
the bible confounds with the option of free will and then says do this, dont do that, do that, don't do this. The rationalities of the bible are man written like any man would do attempts to see both sides of the free will question. There is nothing absolute about it.
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Bnat, cynic friend, keep in mind you shall be judged by your own standard; also with all do respect I find it more than appropriate to remind you that you are better off cutting your tongue off, maybe your hand, or you might just want to toss out the computer, a lil more practical; anyway you get the picture I hope, for your own sake. 
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poppycock! what you see as cynical is another's realism.
not sure where you're heading with the rest, its dubious at best.
I dont keep platitudes in mind they're a waste of time, nor do I subscribe to puritanical views based in absolutes. The only thing that is forever is forever.
judgement! haha almost daily, like most people, to expect to avoid it is a practice in futulity, whether the avoidance is of myself or others.
not sure where you're heading with the rest, its dubious at best.
I dont keep platitudes in mind they're a waste of time, nor do I subscribe to puritanical views based in absolutes. The only thing that is forever is forever.
judgement! haha almost daily, like most people, to expect to avoid it is a practice in futulity, whether the avoidance is of myself or others.
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Puritanical, dogmatic, no no no 
?
Remember the woman who healed by her very faith in him when she only touched his garment and it sufficed? What about the sinner who was crucified next to him and asked God's forgiveness?
Bnatural, you are a smart man, please.
?Remember the woman who healed by her very faith in him when she only touched his garment and it sufficed? What about the sinner who was crucified next to him and asked God's forgiveness?
Bnatural, you are a smart man, please.
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In response to: Puritanical, dogmatic, no no no ?
Remember the woman who healed by her very faith in him when she only touched his garment and it sufficed? What about the sinner who was crucified next to him and asked God's forgiveness?
Bnatural, you are a smart man, please.
Remember the woman who healed by her very faith in him when she only touched his garment and it sufficed? What about the sinner who was crucified next to him and asked God's forgiveness?
Bnatural, you are a smart man, please.
Thanks for the judgement of my smarts ..
today you! tomorrow the world!!! 
So, here is my point, there are two ways to end this life.
1)suicide - you chose to end it because of some 'self' thought reasoning or unreasonable misthought.
2)sacrifice- someone else chooses to end your life because of their thought reasoning or unreasonable misthought.
And accepting ""someone else's"" thought reasoning as viable in life or death choice, (God making a choice for jesus and him buying into it) is suicidal, not sacrifice.
Because some would see a martyr as reasonable isn't wise, though it may have spirtual consequences to one's soul or the souls of many, wholey acceptable yes, dumb...yes; but I accept that it happens... there are better ways than suicide or sacrifce to find suffice and or forgiveness.
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A cynic always a cynic; should you choose to say anything else I will gracefully let you have the last word 
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Smite them all, let God sort them out
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running out of pearls
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Hey, Ray
It's always nice to see someone raise actual substantive philosophic issues here.
For those who believe in "moral absolutes," I would ask one thing: Are the rules that we govern ourselves with means to an end - or the end in itself? The latter - held by such absolutists - is logically absurd, a classic case of placing the horse before the cart.
Jeff
It's always nice to see someone raise actual substantive philosophic issues here. For those who believe in "moral absolutes," I would ask one thing: Are the rules that we govern ourselves with means to an end - or the end in itself? The latter - held by such absolutists - is logically absurd, a classic case of placing the horse before the cart.
Jeff
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Spoken like the practical gent you have always appeared to be.
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In response to: A cynic always a cynic; should you choose to say anything else I will gracefully let you have the last word
Ask a question you get answered.. seems reasonable.
Calling me a cynic?
Neither of those presents your view, accept to judge me as cynical without knowledge of whatever law or reasoning you bring to bare on your judgement of me.
back out if you wish, even call it graceful if you wish
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In response to: Ask a question you get answered.. seems reasonable.
Calling me a cynic?
Neither of those presents your view, accept to judge me as cynical without knowledge of whatever law or reasoning you bring to bare on your judgement of me.
back out if you wish, even call it graceful if you wish
Calling me a cynic?
Neither of those presents your view, accept to judge me as cynical without knowledge of whatever law or reasoning you bring to bare on your judgement of me.
back out if you wish, even call it graceful if you wish
I wonder if it's possible to be cynically graceful. God, I hope so.
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theres no absolutes... morals will always be more a guideline than mandate.
at least for me
at least for me
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In response to: I wonder if it's possible to be cynically graceful. God, I hope so.
well if you had left god out you may have done just that
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why be moral? I am because I want to. It's easier to look myself in the mirror that way.
what is meant by right, wrong, good and value?
right and wrong are the definitions of our moral personalities....they are the guides of our moral behaviour...without wrong there can be no right and vice-versa
If i do something good for someone then I have given you something to value....which we measure by our own desires...
the worth of what has been received by the good action....imo
hope I made some sense here.........
what is meant by right, wrong, good and value?
right and wrong are the definitions of our moral personalities....they are the guides of our moral behaviour...without wrong there can be no right and vice-versa
If i do something good for someone then I have given you something to value....which we measure by our own desires...
the worth of what has been received by the good action....imo
hope I made some sense here.........
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Absolutism...or were does common sense come in to play.
Ray, this is my understanding of some things you were alluding to in your OP.
If somebody was attacking me or my future family, I'd defend myself and them with reasonable force. That's just common sense.
In turning the other cheek, I'd be allowing verbal insults to pass me by without retaliating in like manner.
As for the value of human life, and killing...Ray, human life IS sacred.
So, I'd do my level best to not put myself in a position were I could cause harm to another person. And that included a refusal to fight in ANY war, or bear arms in any capacity.
Also, for instance, I'd make sure my driving is up to standard.
You get the picture.
There are VERY few moral absolutes. I like to think of them as moral PRINCIPLES in any case...as it allows for a different method of acheiving the same aim for each person.
Less rigid...more reasonable...and requiring a deeper understanding of the REASONS for such statements.
Good health!
wow !!